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Posted: 3/16/2002 2:31:18 PM EDT
Give me your opinion. (is that redundant?) Is the ability to transfer these guns without an FFL dealer worth it? As I understand it you now have to keep books of your transactions and allow an annual inspection of your collection. Plus the local police must be notified. Has anyone had a problem? I'm not so sure I want to tell the goverment I have this or that? remember the scene from Red Dawn.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 2:44:19 PM EDT
Plus the local police must be notified.
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It just depends. How anti-gun are the police in your area? Where I live, the sheriff's office won't even give-up concealed carry permits or do the finger printing. Also, twice I've seen them giving a local gunshop owner a hard time about selling rifles. They even lobbied hard to keep a new local Wal-Mart from selling guns. You might want have to ask around where you live to find-out just how much hassle you're setting yourself up for. Just how anti-gun is your local sheriff? Also, if you live inside the limits of a city, how anti-gun is the local city police since you'll have to deal with both groups?z
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 6:29:28 PM EDT
I'm living in LA (lower Alabama). I spent 12 years in NY and four in Kalifornia at the request of our government. I'm still on Active Duty and managed an assignment to a sane state. A gun permit is issued after you fill out a 5x7 card with about the same info you would tell to buy a gun. The sheriff issues them; a local bank provides the protective cover. So it's not the local guys I'm really worried about it's the fact that right now no centralized listing of what I have or aquire should exist. Assuming the Attorney General's direction to comply with NIBC record cleansing is being done. I'm just leaning torward paying the transfer fees ($15 per for me) rather than save them by having the C&R. Am I missing any advantages of the C&R license?
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 6:41:55 PM EDT
The CLEO notification is just that - notification. They don't really have any say in the matter. And while the BATF can inspect your bound book, it is highly unlikely to ever happen.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 8:39:34 PM EDT
TapperMan has it dead-on!! You're simply notifying your local CLEO, not asking for his permission. And with a C&R, you have the option of taking your bound book to the local ATF office or having them come to your house for the inspection of your book. Inspections for C&R holders are a pretty rare occurrence. The few experiences I've read about online didn't seem to be a big deal. If you acquire 30 rifles with your license, and sell 25 of them in the same year, you might get the inspection call. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it. Regarding the Red Dawn scenario...well, they probably already know more about you than you'd be comfortable with. [;)]
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 1:23:54 PM EDT
I'm sure they know to much about me. The paper work for my security clearances made that a certainty. Just wanted to see if anyone had any real world knowledge on the C&R license. Sounds like it wouldn't be a big deal.
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 2:56:29 PM EDT
Where does one get this bound book from, is it supplied? Just curious as to how records have to be kept.
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 3:12:20 PM EDT
With a C&R you're not doing any 4473's. It basically is no paperwork. even if you are called by the ATF, they don't take down all your records, all they want to know is you are keeping accurate records of your purchases, probably takes 10 minutes. The local constables position on guns should not matter, it is only notification. $30 for three years vs. $15 per transaction. Also dealer prices on the stuff ie,$69 delivered vs. $100 in store plus tax. The description of the bound book is in your paperwork or you can get one from Brownells for only a few bucks, that's what I did.
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 3:24:40 PM EDT
this is interesting....Now you've got me thinking of getting one! What are the "best" guns (you know, like a top 10) you can get with a curio and relic license?
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 3:31:45 PM EDT
In CA my choices are limited, especially on pistols. The best bang for the buck these days has to be the Mosin-Nagants, especially the M44. You can get those in VG condition for $55 to new in wrap for $80, delivered. I am also stocking up on the Yugo M48 Mausers, $100-140 for excellent, matching numbers. And the one I wish I could get shipped to me is the newly imported Yugo SKS's.
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 3:37:46 PM EDT
When I was looking into getting a C&R license, I spoke with the local CLEO about what was required/needed. Turned out he had a C&R, and was an avid gun owner/collector. Moaned and groaned that he wished IL was a CCW state. Great guy! He was canned however for trying to make the police department more professional. However, he is still an active C&R holder. As for what guns to buy: my first 3 were a M1 Garand, 1917 Reminington, 1903 Sringfield. I am more of the "wall hanger" collector. I rarely shoot what I buy. Av.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 11:27:31 AM EDT
My C&R is on the way right now, I did alot of research and I beleive that it is better than doing a NICS check every time. As I really beleive, that while illegal, NICS records are being kept; hope I'm wrong. My last FFL transfer guy said that there were certain flags such as more than "X" handguns within "X" amount of days. If they got a flag for this, then they'll have another flag for "X" amount of anyhting within "X" amount of time. I don't have any idea what these flags may be, but don't want to find out. Hypothetically, if I decide that I want to buy a shotgun and say a couple of 22 one month for my kids, then I trade in an old 30-06 hnting rifle for a new one, and in that same month, I find a good deal on a set of consecutive serial us property marked 1911's. Well 6 guns in a month will probably never happen for me but if it does, I might end up on some "list" for close servelance, or if I buy 25 guns over a certain number of years I might be on some "list". I just don't want to take that chance. Of course you're llimited in what you can get with the C&R, but the ones of historical value will most likely be on the list and a those cheap mosin nagant's and now the Yugo SKS. Everything else, I'd wait for,until I found some guy advertising in the paper etc. I would also keep in mind that major wholesalers will probably be monitored and inspected more too, I mean if you ordered 10 Yugo SKS's from BOBSWHOLESALE the batf might come inspecting you too, I'm gonna try to keep from buying too much from major wholesalers, I mainly wanted a C&R to get a us property 1911, and a Yugo SKS and maybe another miscellaneous gun or two.
Link Posted: 3/23/2002 7:09:16 PM EDT
Brownell's and MidwayUSA also give dealer discounts to C&R holders. I've only had mine for a month or so, so there may be other outfits that do this as well. Hell, I've easily made up the $30 fee many times over already. Rocko
Link Posted: 3/24/2002 4:19:14 AM EDT
Ok, I'm convenced, especailly after the fiasco ordering my sks. by the way JBear, I ordered the M59 version instead of the M59/66 they were made before the addition of the grenade launcher. As i understand it they are CA legal. got mine from [url]www.centerfiresystems.com[/url] it was in a lot nicer condition than most of the 66's i've seen. The problems occured at this end. Centerfire did a great job.
Link Posted: 3/24/2002 4:30:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Avalon01: When I was looking into getting a C&R license, I spoke with the local CLEO about what was required/needed. Turned out he had a C&R, and was an avid gun owner/collector. Moaned and groaned that he wished IL was a CCW state. Great guy! He was canned however for trying to make the police department more professional. However, he is still an active C&R holder. As for what guns to buy: my first 3 were a M1 Garand, 1917 Reminington, 1903 Sringfield. I am more of the "wall hanger" collector. I rarely shoot what I buy. Av.
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you can buy Gararands, and 1903's direct from the CMP. all you need is to have participated in a high power match or have been in the military. you submit an application (notarized) and they have the FBI do a NIC's check. the rifle is sent to your door via FedEx. no transfer to a FFL is required. that's how all gun purchases should be. to bad people don't voice their opinions and have the laws changed.
Link Posted: 3/24/2002 4:50:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2002 5:03:23 AM EDT by rpd_fire]
For the price of a transfer for three years you can't got wrong. Have guns shipped to your door and get dealer prices on stuff. Check this site. It's where I got a lot of my info. [url]pub42.ezboard.com/fparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforumsfrm72[/url] You have to register but there is a lot of info including who to contact and how to get a C&R license (exactly how to). Good luck! ATF said mine is in the mail. That was the 3-15-02 still haven't got it. Mailed it Jan-21. C&R The application is similar to a form 4(standard nics check form). Filled out double. One is mailed to CLEO. The other and $30 is mailed to the BATF. NO Leo sign off. It's just a notification. HE CANNOT Deny it. Sit back and Wait! Bound book downloads [url]users.pld.com/willj/curio/downloadable.htm[/url] [url]www.goldenloki.com/misc/bbook.zip[/url] C&R app. [url]www.atf.treas.gov/forms/pdfs/print2.htm[/url] or call 404-679-5040 and request a class 03 Curios and Relics FFL application. Send to BATF PO Box 845219 Dallas, TX 75284-5219. NEVER SIGN THE ORIGINAL LICENSE. You do not have to record C&R that you already owned, however once you recieve you C&R license you must record all C&R that you buy even if you buy them from your local gunshop.
Link Posted: 3/24/2002 8:43:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By exsanguinate: you can buy Gararands, and 1903's direct from the CMP. all you need is to have participated in a high power match or have been in the military. you submit an application (notarized) and they have the FBI do a NIC's check. the rifle is sent to your door via FedEx. no transfer to a FFL is required. that's how all gun purchases should be. to bad people don't voice their opinions and have the laws changed.
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Yes, I know. I have been told that a million and 1 times. I do not wish to compete. It does not interest me. I just want to buy the freakin rifles. Av.
Link Posted: 3/24/2002 11:17:33 AM EDT
you don't have to win, just pay 20-30 bucks and shoot...
Link Posted: 3/24/2002 11:30:45 AM EDT
Can someone provide a link to a list of guns that you are allowed to buy with a C&R lic ?
Link Posted: 3/24/2002 3:58:33 PM EDT
here is the link to the C&R list at the BATF website [url]http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/curios/index.htm[/url] This list is current as of 15 Mar 2001. There should be an update but I haven't found it.
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