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Posted: 3/11/2002 8:01:19 AM EDT
All this speculation on what would happen if NY was attacked with an atomic weapon reminded me of [url]www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/bomb/sfeature/mapablast.html[/url] Just input the data that they request, and you will get an accurate assessment of just how devastating a nuclear weapon would be to any city or region that you choose. Very interesting and scary stuff. Check it out.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 8:20:43 AM EDT
Ya know, having this available to people is good and bad. People can see what could happen, but people who would want to use one can see the preditions too. It's like we're helping them plan an attack.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 8:29:42 AM EDT
Kaliburz, this info is nothing new. It has been floating around for decades. In fact, there is a note at the bottom of the blast mapper, which reads...
NOTE: This information is drawn mainly from "The Effects of Nuclear War" (Washington: Office of Technology Assessment, Congress of the United States, 1979). The zones of destruction mapped out on this page are broad generalizations and do not take into account factors such as weather and geography.
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Trust me, I am not giving away any state secrets by posting a link to this site.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 8:50:23 AM EDT
Washington DC. 1 Mt air blast does nothing to me. 25 Mt air blast and I'm in the middle of ring 2. 45% injured. doh. Wow. Surface blast and all the crap goes east. I'm ok there too.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 8:56:44 AM EDT
Also note that we and most other nuclear powers are pulling these big-ass multi-megaton citybusters out of circulation. With more accurate delivery systems, most warheads nowadays are sub-megaton yield... 750Kt on down in most cases. The big'ns are still out there, but not like they once were.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 9:01:28 AM EDT
There is no map of Baghdad or Iran on that site. None of the places that I would hypothetically bomb have maps.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 9:16:10 AM EDT
information, it's wonderful stuff. i saw this a year or so ago and concluded that if at work, i'd survive the atlanta metro burst because i'm shielded from direct effects by kennesaw mountain. at home i'm 30 miles further out, and probably safe. getting home might be a problem, emp would fry my car. hopefully if it happens i haven't left for work yet. the next question is: "which overpass to bring down to keep the city folks from refugee-ing to my front yard?" and finally, "when the NG comes thru to restore order, does the town militia (all 6 of us) help or not?"
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 9:28:10 AM EDT
Two notes of interest... - Don't forget to click the "fallout pattern" mapper feature at the bottom of the page. This info is just as important as the blast data. - There is an international selection bar for the mapper, so you [b]can[/b] "bomb" Tehran or Baghdad if you want to (and who doesn’t these days???)
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 9:33:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: Two notes of interest... - Don't forget to click the "fallout pattern" mapper feature at the bottom of the page. This info is just as important as the blast data. - There is an international selection bar for the mapper, so you [b]can[/b] "bomb" Tehran or Baghdad if you want to (and who doesn’t these days???)
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speaking of fallout, when everyone was panicing about cropdusters, i went surfing for maps of nuke power plants (wouldnt want to be downwind, ya know?) in my state but couldnt find one. coincidence?
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 10:13:27 AM EDT
Time for a group backhoe purchase?
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 10:33:01 AM EDT
If it did hit atlanta, I don't live far enough and I don't think stone mtn would be much cover. Better go in on the backhoe purchase.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 10:47:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By lurker:
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: Two notes of interest... - Don't forget to click the "fallout pattern" mapper feature at the bottom of the page. This info is just as important as the blast data. - There is an international selection bar for the mapper, so you [b]can[/b] "bomb" Tehran or Baghdad if you want to (and who doesn’t these days???)
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speaking of fallout, when everyone was panicing about cropdusters, i went surfing for maps of nuke power plants (wouldnt want to be downwind, ya know?) in my state but couldnt find one. coincidence?
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thats the part that I can't stand about living here... I live about 15 miles ( they way a crow flies) from a nuke, on a clear day I could see the steam if I am up on my roof
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 11:03:29 AM EDT
I am so screwed. San Francisco would be a good symbolic target. Fallout gets me. If ya'll nuke Berkeley, and I'm sure you would love to,I'm a goner, again from fallout. Blast damage (okay, total incineration) if Lawrence Livermore Lab is hit. I gotta get out more.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 1:03:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By operatorerror: I am so screwed. San Francisco would be a good symbolic target. Fallout gets me. If ya'll nuke Berkeley, and I'm sure you would love to,I'm a goner, again from fallout. Blast damage (okay, total incineration) if Lawrence Livermore Lab is hit. I gotta get out more.
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Ask for a transfer to oak ridge... Anyone know how small a 1 MT device can get? The larger it is, the more likely it will come in a shipping container by ship. But if its smaller it can be airmailed. Just using one ton as a abstract figure, the more under one ton the device is, the greater the chance it will go by container by Air freight. Then it could show up at Chicago or St. Louis. If its by sea, than its going to go to a major shipping container port. Seattle, Oakland, San Pedro, Galviston, Houston, New Orleans, Newark, and New York City would be the most likely spots. Can anyone think of any place I am leaving out?
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 1:23:15 PM EDT
Armdlbrl, those are 2 questions I would like to know the answers to. Exactly how large and what is the weight of say, a one Mton device ? I suspect that is would be able to fit in a regular passenger van. If that is the case, then once it is in the country they could drive it and set it off anywhere.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 2:14:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan: Armdlbrl, those are 2 questions I would like to know the answers to. Exactly how large and what is the weight of say, a one Mton device ? I suspect that is would be able to fit in a regular passenger van. If that is the case, then once it is in the country they could drive it and set it off anywhere.
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They could, but I dont think they would. Not because they arent willing to die, but because they know we are looking for Arab men and their presence could tip our security people off. But just mailing the bomb in a sealed container could accomplish the job nicely. Dont have to worry about customs checking because it would go off before they could get to it. Also this new kind of terrorist values body count more than symbolism. That is why they attacked the WTC AND Washington. They knew that they couldn't get a high body count at either the Pentagon or the Capitol or White House. Simply too few people work there and its too easy for them to get away. So they sent planes after the WTC as well, to get a high body count. True there was some symbolism due to the past attack, but they could have just as easily sent one aircraft to the WTC and one after the Statue of Liberty if they wanted symbolism first. If they had only been successful in seizing one plane, it would have gone to the WTC I'm sure, not the White House. For a like reason I think if they have only one bomb its going to a container port near a major metropolitan area. The Port of Los Angeles would give them the best death toll because of the prevailing winds there and the proximity of residential areas. While a bomb going off in Galviston/Houston or anywhere along the ship canal in between would give a high death toll- but not like in LA- and a nasty bit of economic damage, as well as being symbolic in destroying someting in Bush's home state. If the bomb is smaller than a ton, it could be put in a aircraft shipping container equipped with a multi-stage atmospheric pressure altimeter fuze, like used to blow up Pan Am 108. Our security forces would never see it caus the aircraft would blow up on final or shortly after touching down. This kind of bomb would go to O'Hare, or Hartsfield, some big international port of entry.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 2:25:58 PM EDT
Looks like a 25MT blast on DC is gonna do some serious damage to my house [shock]
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 2:27:24 PM EDT
I bet/hope someone is screening for radioactive material on container ships and air shipments.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 2:30:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 9divdoc: Time for a group backhoe purchase?
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ROFL! [b]The AR-15.COM 2002 LEGP Bobcat System![/b]
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 2:35:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zak:
Originally Posted By 9divdoc: Time for a group backhoe purchase?
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ROFL! [b]The AR-15.COM 2002 LEGP Bobcat System![/b]
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Damn straight! Put the AR-15.com logo on the side, paint it black. I need start digging!!!
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 2:42:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2002 2:45:34 PM EDT by zonan]
Originally Posted By Kaliburz: Ya know, having this available to people is good and bad. People can see what could happen, but people who would want to use one can see the preditions too. It's like we're helping them plan an attack.
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Keeping info to ourselves is great, but I think you're too worried in this case. If anyone is capable of creating (or even obtaining) a nuclear weapon, they are certainly able to do the simple calculations necessary to determine blast radius, fallout estimates, etc.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 2:47:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JIMBEAM: I bet/hope someone is screening for radioactive material on container ships and air shipments.
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They are trying. They have ordered lots more radioactive detection equipment. But much of it hasn't arived yet and its all of limited utility. They will just set the bomb to explode as soon as it arrives over the airport or in harbor, before it lands or docks and customs can touch it. The only way to be sure is to stop ships at sea and to screen aircraft before they take off. That requires international cooperation which is nonexistant.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 3:44:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Originally Posted By JIMBEAM: I bet/hope someone is screening for radioactive material on container ships and air shipments.
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They are trying. They have ordered lots more radioactive detection equipment. But much of it hasn't arived yet and its all of limited utility. They will just set the bomb to explode as soon as it arrives over the airport or in harbor, before it lands or docks and customs can touch it. The only way to be sure is to stop ships at sea and to screen aircraft before they take off. That requires international cooperation which is nonexistant.
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I have a few former military buddies (officers, one retired a bird) and he said the same thing. A nuke in a ship, no one would ever know......
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 7:20:40 PM EDT
One bump to the top before this topic slides into the abyss of yesterday's posts.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 9:18:07 PM EDT
The fallout map is worthless for the Houston area. The wind is out of the west maybe a handful of days per year. 90% of the time our wind is out of the southeast, 10% of the time (winter only) it's out of the north.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 9:23:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Texason: The fallout map is worthless for the Houston area. The wind is out of the west maybe a handful of days per year. 90% of the time our wind is out of the southeast, 10% of the time (winter only) it's out of the north.
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Yeah I noticed it too. The winds in California blow mostly from the north west, not true west. And then 10% of the time are Santa Anna winds that blow from the east, that is usually when the forest fires happen.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 10:56:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: Two notes of interest... - Don't forget to click the "fallout pattern" mapper feature at the bottom of the page. This info is just as important as the blast data. - There is an international selection bar for the mapper, so you [b]can[/b] "bomb" Tehran or Baghdad if you want to (and who doesn’t these days???)
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And here I'm in the fallout zone for Sacramento. Oh Goodie. I'd feel sorry for my friends back in San Jose -- the Techa Mecca? I would hate to think how terrorists/anti-American freaks would view that as a potential target. I don't miss living there.
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