Post from robino -

Once again, [b]robino[/b], you couldn't be more wrong! Who's your religious instructor, Jesred?

[b]kevf7[/b] has it 100% correct!

"I am not a Jew, but I am also "chosen" "

Absolutely correct!

Eric The('Chosen')Hun[>]:)]

Muslims DON"T follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, they follow the teachings of a pedophile named Mohammad,who called for the death of ANYONE who didn't follow his words (that means ALL other religions) . if they followed the teachings of Christ they would be Christians. Christian= follower of Christ.
The Jews feel that Jesus was a phrophet.



How could the Muslims have ANY ancestorial ground in Isreal?? The Jews were there LONG before the birth of Christ, which is ALSO before the invention of Islam.
The Jews have lived in the Holy land since the beginning of the human race. They Bible even says so. And the Bible also states that the Jews are God's chosen people.
Jesred, you are a racists of the worst kind. You are as ignorant as you are hateful.
As for the Jews who are trying to disarm us, they have forgotten that they ONLY way to defend your way of life is through the protection of it, with arms if necesary.

[smoke]

Whoa....

We've been supporting Israel fer 20+ years.

If you think God has been blessing us fer the last 40 years, then you ain't been paying attention.

Need proof we are currently under the chastening hand of the Lord right now???

I've got two fer ya -

1. Bill Clinton (God's DIRECT chastisement. Scripturally, God sets up evil men to accomplish His purposes. Examples - Pharoah, Herod, Jeroboam - the list is QUITE lengthy)

2. Sept. 11, 2001 (God removing His veil of protection, as our Supreme Court and Congress proceed to tell God He's not welcome in our society. Tell God you don't want Him around, and guess what??? He'll leave.)

The reality is, we support Israel right now, but it doesn't seem, to my reading of the situation, to be "buying us any favor with God." (used metaphorically only)

In short, if we are being blessed by God right now, I don't wanna see His curse.

why do we keep allowing posts of this nature?  i know that you enjoy this type of debate eth, but i think this kind or tripe leads other readers to believe that all gun owners are insane race-baiting morons.  please consider our public image in allowing these treads to continue.

Hydguy wrote: "The Jews have lived in the Holy land since the beginning of the human race. They Bible even says so. And the Bible also states that the Jews are God's chosen people."

and who wrote the bible guy?


gregrpf wrote: "why do we keep allowing posts of this nature? i know that you enjoy this type of debate eth, but i think this kind or tripe leads other readers to believe that all gun owners are insane race-baiting morons. please consider our public image in allowing these treads to continue."

just like a jew to censor free speech ain't it?
you wouldn't be the first to try it.
do you consider yourself a Hypocrite? Because I got news for you...you are.
A liberal gun owner...that's what the world needed.

Post from gregrph -

Frankly, I would have pulled the plug on this thread long ago, but, since I am always in the position of defending Israel, I think that it would be highly inappropriate for me to do so now!

[i][b]Au contraire, mon frère![/b][/i], these endless threads that go nowhere fast, are not enjoyable in the least! It always end up in some sort of argument over how many Nazis can dance on the head of a pin.

I refuse, however, to let these cretins have the last word on anything!

To leave their pointless, inane comments to stand by themselves, unrefuted, would be to allow some guest of this Board to believe that there were those of us who shared their views, or, worse yet, that we didn't have the intellectual ability to slap them down with good arguments. It would rankle me, as well.

As I say, if it were totally up to me there would be a lock on this thread after the 2nd page.

But that would just encourage the Ratzis to even greater heights of inanity!

Take comfort in the thought that I share your reasonable views in every aspect.

Eric The(TryingToBeNice,LookWhereItGetsUs)Hun[>]:)]

Uhhh, no, the Pentateuch and the books of Joshua and Judges actually tell the story of the Israelite conquest of the "Holy Land" wrestling it from the inhabitants who had lived there some 1,000 years at least.

Further, a pretty good case can be made that the promises of eternal ownership of the land were CONDITIONAL upon the Israelites keeping the covenant of the law. Should the covenant of the law be violated by the nation of israel, the contract is broken, and God is under no obligation to honor it. (See I Chron 28:8, Deut 8:1) In fact, the rending of the veil at the crucifixion of Christ is indication of the nullification of the contract by God due to its violation by Israel.

Add to this the reality of how history has turned out. If the promise of the land was an eternal promise that was UNCONDITIONAL, then clearly Yawweh is an unjust god, for there were about 1,900 years that the Jews did NOT own the land. (Yes, eternal includes from 70A.D to 1948)




Uhhh, no it doesn't.

Rom 2: 28-29

28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

God's Israel, God's chosen people is now and has always been those of ALL nationalities that obeyed God and trusted Jesus Christ as Saviour.

Acts 10: 34-35

34   Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35   But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him

And remember that God never changes. What He was in Peter's day, he always was and always will be.

Eric, will it help any if I request a lock on this thread now?   It's readily apparent that it's brought out the asshole factor in some of us.   And by now we should have realized that it's not possible to maintain a religious based discussion among two different denominations of the same religion (as in Presybterian and Baptist) for long before it disintegrates, and it's much worse when mixing in Christian, Jewish, and Muslim religions in the same pot. That's a hypergolic mixture!   It'll burn by itself.

However, that being said, I do see this relationship between these three religions:

Muslim and Jewish are apparently totally incompatible.

Christian and Muslim are apparently totally incompatible as well.  

Christian and Jewish can get along pretty well.

I wonder if it is because of, or in spite of, the common denominator, that of Jesus.  Or if that has nothing to do with it.

No sense worrying about it.   I just treat people nicely without bothering to see if they visit a church, a synagogue, or a mosque as part of their life.

CJ

Lock, please?

I know there's probably a response to this but... my grandmama went to Israel last year and couldn't belive how mean the Jews were to the INNOCENT muslims. She came back ranting about how the adults were very mean even to the palastin children.  People there is some SERIUOS HATE on both sides over there. Its all coming to a head soon, we are in the middle anyway you look at it.

Hah this is great, God wouldn't have wanted all of this. You all seem so caught up in arguments that have "historical" or "biblical" background, so that shows great integrity, that's great, but your arguing over RELIGION!!  A F#@$%ING book that was written by who? O you don't have any factorial basis on your facts!! Go figure!!

Of course why would some of you listen to a person with only 130 posts.

garandman, the Book of Acts is in the New Testament, hence in the Jewish outlook, doesn't apply to them,since they for the most part believe that Jesus was a prophet.
Revelations states that 12,000 people from each of the 12 tribes of Isreal will accent to heave to be seated at the Right Hand of the Father.

The Isrealites were enslaved and carried away from Isreal.
Isreal in Biblical times was not defined by the borders of today.
As a Christian, I believe that Christ is the way to Salviation for me, but I also believe that God takes all forms (with the exception of Islam), and as such, so long as you don't worship false idols (such as cows), then you will be saved.

And it might also be that God is trying to show us the error of our ways, and is being gentel, due to our relationship with Isreal.

But that's MY opinion.

[smoke]

Hey guys, MuderSHO is right!  We are all being good Christians for nothing!  Lets all throw out our bibles, just because we don't know who the author of the TOTAL book is, neverminding the fact that we know who wrote individual books.  

Lets all become muslim terrorists, atleast they know who wrote their KKKoran.  Mohammad, the pedophile/murderer/schiztophrenic, who "heard and saw the visions of Allah." (Don't mind the fact that the KKKoran is a compilation of his visions and the bible.)

As far as calling Israel our TOOL, you're damn right they are, except we want to keep them on too tight of a leash.  We should allow them to kill any threat to their country (all of the middle east) so that we may sleep a better sleep.

I don't know, I've re-read my post several times, but still can't find the part that says join the taliban, throw away your bibles, kill your mom, warship satan. Maybe Minman can show me?

Many Christians (and I am one) say this, but I don't see how it's true.  Modern jews spit on God and everything sacred--I don't think I've ever met a jew who actually believes the old testament, almost all are agnostic/atheist.  Look at our history:  if prosperity is any indication, the Christian west has been God's Chosen for centuries.

If we were to "pull the plug on Israel", that would certainly put smiles on the faces of Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Ayatollah (whatever his name is), and every other one of those mother fuckers that smiled and celebrated the deaths of OUR fellow Americans, six months ago.

Why would we want to do that?

If those savages hate Israel (they hate us, too), then Israel CAN'T be that bad.

If there was a war between Israel and the Arab-world, WE WOULD HAVE TO CHOOSE A SIDE.  IIF YOU DOUBT THIS, THEN YOU'RE ON MARS.

There's only one choice.
Western Civilization.

Well, from some folks posting on this board I've learned quite a few things:

White is good, west is good, all other foreigners are dangerous savages who deserve one of three fates: subjugation, re-education, or extermination.

Christianity teaches us to hate our neighbors and make up false, baiting accusations to draw them into a spam-fest. Further more, there appear to be folks in society that would like to bring back a form of the Final Solution, this time against Muslims. After all, it is what Christianity stands for.

Hate is a good things that gives those who use it a moraly superior sense of self worth, and a moral high ground. Hate most certainly ISNT what brought us people like Adolph Hitler and Pol Pot. Homosexuals, stool-pidgeon minorities, and liberals are responcible.

Sgt.Ryan Anderson,
US Army, WA-ARNG 19K10.
7yr vet.

I quote and correct, not to be a jerk, but because most people would want to know the right way to spell a word, or use the right word:




Posted By Hydguy:....
Revelations states that 12,000 people from each of the 12 tribes of Isreal will accent to heave

No, that's "ASCEND to HEAVEN".


The Isrealites were enslaved and carried away from Isreal.
Isreal in Biblical times was not defined by the borders of today.


No, it's not Isreal, it's ISRAEL.  And ISRAELITES.


As a Christian, I believe that Christ is the way to Salviation for me,

Too many I's.   SALVATION, not SALVIATION.





And it might also be that God is trying to show us the error of our ways, and is being gentel, due to our relationship with Isreal.


GENTEEL, not GENTEL.   ISRAEL again.

But that's MY opinion.


And I am merely showing you the error of your spelling and choice of words.   No harm intended.   Hopefully, you will remember this little lesson, thereby improving the quality of your postings in the future.


Yes, I'm retentive!


CJ

GuardTanker, I'm SURE I agree with you.   This thread has become like a bad auto accident.  Fascinating to look at, but pretty horrible in its contents, nevertheless.

I have made a determined effort to NOT take notes on who's saying what, because in some cases it may result in my not being able to treat some of these intolerant bastards fairly in future posts if I knew who they were.

I believe there's only one God.  And I believe that his words have been twisted and perverted by twisted and perverted "prophets", scholars, transcriptionists, and so-called "holy men" for so long and to such an extent that it is no longer possible to find the real truth in any  religious textbook, AKA Bible, Koran, Qur'an, Torah, whatever.  I think they're ALL so screwed up as to be useless from a factual perspective.
They're FICTION in their existing forms!

I'll lay it out, as I see it, for anybody who wants to read it.

I have a soul.  Every person does.  God chooses to place souls in infant bodies at some time near birth.   You ended up where you are because that was your assignment.  You had no intrinsic right to be American, or be white, or be black, or be French, or Japanese, or anything.  You got what you were issued, and that's it.  It is literally a case of "There but for the grace of God go I".

You might have been born in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Iran, Yugoslavia, Russia, Japan, Canada, or the US...or ANYWHERE else, and it was NOT your decision to be who you are or to choose where you came from.   You had no intrinsic superiority that kept you from being a slave in the Sudan, and no intrinsic inferiority that kept you from being the heir to the British throne.

All people are in the same personal position.

It is absolutely stupid for people to battle one another over this flag or that association or this family or that religion, because they are all local manifestations of societies we were born in through no fault, virtue, or action of our own.

I see no difference at all between people living on the west bank of a river under one flag and people living on the east bank under a different flag, except for the differences they choose to create and accept, which are MEANINGLESS to God, so long as they don't interfere with people treating each other as the family they might have been but for a single decision made before they were born.  

God means for you to treat each other person as not just a brother, sister, or friend, but to think that you would have BEEN that person, born where he was, into the body he uses, to the people he calls his parents, but for a single decision made before you were born.

I may have been born anywhere, in any body, in any circumstances.    I strive to keep that always in mind, and I understand that each person is a slave to the circumstances he was given when he was born, whether it's a position of abject poverty or great wealth.

So I believe.  We are equal souls, born under unequal conditions.  Keep that in mind when you meet other people.

CJ

A great, and unlikly bunch of indy film makers once said the biggest problem with faith is that people have taken and built a belief structure out of it. No truly merciful or compassionet God could feel anything but sadness and pain with how we are treating one another in His (her? beats me) name. There is nothing holy about hate, and unless you're so close minded that you can't deal with reality, no one faith has a corner on truth.

The fight in the Middle East is a SECULAR one hiding in religious shroud. It is about greed, about lack of human understanding, and a lack of willingness to change. I dont like the current incarnation of Israel. It is a nation of hate, both outside and inside. Coming from Palestinian blood, I will be the first to admit that the Palestinians and the Arab states are just as guilty in what is happening though. The only solution to the problem will be third-party (British?) troops in the streets keeping the peace, and enforcing a joint Palestinian-Jewish homeland with joint rule. The dinosaurs that will not stand for it on either side need to go away, either at the point of a 5.56x45mm bullet, or leave the region in self-imposed exile. Israelis and Palestinians do NOT hate eachother, and are NOT incompatable. They have lived in the past, together for thousands of years, and done very well together under foreign rule. Like two children though, they have shown themselves to be unable to govern themselves. And when one, and soon probably both sides, will be nuclear powers, we cannot continue to let the situation be to our own peril.

Well, I'm headed to a late dinner,
Keep the faith.

Ryan