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Posted: 3/3/2002 6:19:37 PM EDT
Why is it that at any gunshow you'll see some lardbutt in an Afrika Korps uniform?
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 6:25:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 6:34:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2002 6:36:11 PM EDT by shooter69]
Because the Afrika Korps is COOL, and a great example of superior tactics despite being numerically and materially disadvantaged. Now if they were wearing a brown shirt uniform, etc... :) (Edited because I can't spell Afrika!)
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 6:37:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2002 6:39:09 PM EDT by Schnert]
shooter69, My family fought for Deutschland in the last one. Fact: They did not have superior tactics - they lost! Fact: The nazis were EVIL. Fact: Nazi mythology DESTROYED Germany. I'm just sick of seeing Wehrmacht wannabes at gunshows.
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 6:38:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2002 6:51:51 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 6:41:52 PM EDT
'Cause he's a loser! And he identifies with losers! And by the end of the War, he might possibly have qualified as military material for the Third Reich! Very, very late in the War! Eric The(Say,April,1945)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 6:43:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: I have never figured out why you see Nazi crap at these things. I can understand it from men who fought in WW II, I guess. But it's one of the few things that I become irrationally angry over. I want to strangle these guys with the nazi flags and daggers.
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Those who forget history are bound to repeat it. Get angry, don't forget and we won't repeat. Moral: Those guys are beneficial to our future. As long as the daggers (most are fake) and patches circulate, you won't forget what they are about, nor will you let your children forget. So now, does anyone think they should be banned or something from all future gun shows?
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 6:47:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2002 6:48:52 PM EDT by Schnert]
I don't think that memorabilia or "historical recreationists" should be banned. I'm just tired of seeing a bunch of idiots (read: Idioten oder Schwantzkopfen) glorifying an evil regiem.
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 6:55:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 6:57:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: 'Cause he's a loser! And he identifies with losers!
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Applying that kind of logic, there shouldn't be any Vietnam era USGI equipment for sale at gunshows either....the AR-15/M-16 springs to mind.
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 7:01:29 PM EDT
HOLY CRAP! I'm on the same side as Erik der Hun[>]:)]!
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 7:12:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 7:17:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 7:19:30 PM EDT
Post from Kar98 -
Applying that kind of logic, there shouldn't be any Vietnam era USGI equipment for sale at gunshows either....the AR-15/M-16 springs to mind.
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Oh, the United States lost the war in Vietnam? That's news to me. When we withdrew our last combat troops on March 29, 1973, there was a peace plan in place that should have protected South Vietnam. It provided for US assistance in the event that the North ever tried to invade the South. When the North finally took advantage of the fall of Richard Nixon and began the war against the South in earnest in April, 1975, the US Congress decided the time had come to sit this one out! We 'reneged' on our promises to come to the South's aid. [b]So let's get back to some real losers, like those friggin Nazis back in WWII.[/b] I'm still not quite certain how many German citizens the Russians raped and killed as they took over that country. But you know it was quite a few, indeed. I've read that as many as 200,000 German women of all ages were raped in Berlin alone! So, I'd have to say that any army that left its wives and daughters as fair game for a bunch of filthy Bolsheviks had to be the greatest losers in modern history , what do you think? Eric The(Ugh!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 7:39:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Post from Kar98 -
Applying that kind of logic, there shouldn't be any Vietnam era USGI equipment for sale at gunshows either....the AR-15/M-16 springs to mind.
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Oh, the United States lost the war in Vietnam? That's news to me.
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Then you must have missed the shots of the helicopters taking off of the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon, with "please-take-me-alongees" hanging in throngs from the helicopter skids. Wasn't one of the objectives of the Viet Nam War to prevent communism from spreading out? I seem to remember something about Viet Nam being a communist state for about 30 years
When we withdrew our last combat troops on March 29, 1973, there was a peace plan in place that should have protected South Vietnam. It provided for US assistance in the event that the North ever tried to invade the South.
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Didn't work too well either, did it?
So, I'd have to say that any army that left its wives and daughters as fair game for a bunch of filthy Bolsheviks had to be the greatest losers in modern history , what do you think? Eric The(Ugh!)Hun[>]:)]
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With that opinion, you would be called a nazi sympathizer in the Germany of 2002. But, as a matter of fact, the Wehrmacht fought tooth and claw to enable as many refugees to make it to the American zone of occupation as possible.
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 7:55:02 PM EDT
So, if I thumped a Wehrmacht wannabe at the next gunshow... would you cheer me on or jump in for Herr Hauptmann Arschlocht?
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 8:30:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Schnert: shooter69, My family fought for Deutschland in the last one.
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Gee, that's great, and my family fought for this one...
Fact: They did not have superior tactics - they lost!
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Haha! When you take on the entire world things like that can happen. I was talking about the Afrika Korps under Rommel, and especially his BRILLIANT campaign against the Brits. But in general they did have superior tactics (ever heard of the blitzkrieg?), which everyone had to learn the hard way (Poland, France, Britain, The USSR come to mind), and Patton himself said that the german soldier was the best fighting man of the war. Nuff said! If you're not interested in such things then that's fine, but don't characterize those that are interested in military history as closet-nazis. Your family demons not withstanding, you don't have that copyright.
I'm just sick of seeing Wehrmacht wannabes at gunshows.
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And I'm sure people get sick of said harassment because they are history buffs. If they are not, then again that's different.
So, if I thumped a Wehrmacht wannabe at the next gunshow... would you cheer me on or jump in for Herr Hauptmann Arschlocht?
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As you've described it, the latter...
Originally Posted By Aimless: No I don't think banning them is right. A lot of these guys are just interested in the war and are not pro nazi or anything, it's the losers who seem to secretely admire that ratzis that get me going.
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Thanks for that, Aimless.
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 8:30:03 PM EDT
Post from Kar98 -
Then you must have missed the shots of the helicopters taking off of the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon, with "please-take-me-alongees" hanging in throngs from the helicopter skids.
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That, Kar98, occurred in April and May, 1975, more than two years after the last US ground troops had left South Vietnam! Sheesh, don't they teach American History in Grade School any more?
Wasn't one of the objectives of the Viet Nam War to prevent communism from spreading out? I seem to remember something about Viet Nam being a communist state for about 30 years.
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Spreading from Vietnam? Then tell me the number of Southeast Asian countries that communism spread to [u]after[/u] the Vietnam War! The 'Domino Theory' failed because we had kicked the sh|t out of the communists! By the time they recovered from the beating we had given them during the War, it was too late for them to do anything but invade Cambodia and get their butts kicked!
Didn't work too well either, did it?
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Nope, but it wasn't the fault of US troops in the field, they had long since left. It was the fault of US politicians who decided that they had had about as much of Vietnam as they could stand. [b]So when did our army lose in Vietnam, huh?[/b]
With that opinion, you would be called a nazi sympathizer in the Germany of 2002.
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Huh? There is no way that anyone could ever call me a Nazi sympathizer in any manner.
But, as a matter of fact, the Wehrmacht fought tooth and claw to enable as many refugees to make it to the American zone of occupation as possible.
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I am very much aware of some fine examples of heroic devotion to duty such as Gen. Hasso Van Manteuffel, as commander of 3rd Panzer Army, who managed to bring approximately 200,000 civilians through Soviet lines to then surrender to American army units. But so what, he surrendered, too! He lost. Er is kaput! Eric The(SoWho'sTheLoser?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 8:36:56 PM EDT
I am not against those who are interested in military history. I am against people who glorify an evil time. Don't give me this line of garbage that people who dress as Waffen SS troopers or Wehrmacht Soldaten don't care about the geo-politacl aims of the Third Reich. Don't feed me the line of garbage that everyone who dresses up like a member of the Afrika Korps doesn't care about the political ramifications, they only want to "preserve" history. Those are lies. People who wear their favorite SS M-43 caps in public deserve to have their collective a$$e$ kicked... in the interests of history... of course... just like WWII.
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 9:01:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 9:10:41 PM EDT
Preserve history? No. The [b]military[/b] aspects of it are a hobby that people [b]of all[/b] political persuasions enjoy, as I know from first hand experience. From left to right (and just far out) none of them are seeking a fourth reich *LOL* There also seems to be quite an interest in collecting uniforms, clothing, ensignia (spetznaz, KGB), medals, hats (love those russian fur hats!) of the former Soviet Union (and satellites). Next you'll be saying that all these guys are glorifying the Communist system (that murdered even more...), and likely closet-pinkos. If so an investigation should be launched as almost everyone I know in the United States military has something to this effect. Hell, everyone that I know of that is just interested in ak-47s does. I just don't mind wearing my afrika korps t-shirt around, even when I'm not at a wargaming convention (also have a couple with US ww2 military units emblazoned and a bunch with ww2 tanks and planes on them). Sorry! I guess you do... PS: Next time you are in line with one of these guys... why not just ask him what his views on the subject are? Or would that make less sense than just "thumping" them?
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 11:01:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2002 11:03:51 PM EDT by Avalon01]
I collect items from WW2. Mostly paper money, but I do own passbooks, ID's, yellow stars, and other items. I buy it it preserve it. I hope to show my children one day. The American dollars bills with "Hawaii" printed over them, the money the guerrilla used in the Philippines, the German ID with "Jude" stamped on it, and the paper money from Buchenwald. It bring history into their hands, and makes sure they do not forget. I also lend some of my collection to the local history museum during Veterans Day. I love it when people can accually see what my grandparents gereration fought for. People who glorify the Nazi party however, get a good ass-kicking! Av.
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 11:48:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 5:07:31 AM EDT
Kar98, When you watch television, turn up the volume so you can hear the words. The helicopters lifting people of from roofs were CIA people getting their friends out, not American military troops. The evacuation of the embassy during the fall of Saigon was two years after the last American combat troops left the country. We won, we left, the politicians gave it up.
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 7:28:28 AM EDT
Besides, all the "high speed, low drag" guys are using REM700s, and, if I recall correctly, those are just Mauser clones...
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. No they're not. But the pre-64 Winchester model 70 is close. Anyway, dickheads that dress up in those uniforms are just sickos who secretly dream of being sodomized by Gaydolf. "Sieg Heil," big boy . . . Collecting the stuff is cool. Maybe it was taken off a dead enemy. Maybe it is just neat for its historical significance. But dressing up in it? Getting tatted with it? Hell with those idiots.
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 7:48:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 7:55:10 AM EDT
Lets see if I've got this figured out. When -I- do it, I'm a historian. When -you- do it, you are a collector. When -they- do it they are Nazi perverts. Does that sum it up? For the record, I've been playing some of the various combat simulations for more than 25 years. At least one guy had a set of the appropriate hats, German, Russian, Brit, US, even North/South Confederate era. He was SERIOUS about his games. I just about choked when he showed up to play Bonaparte at Quatre Bras in an Imperial Guard bearskin hat. Yes he was weird, but the one time some doofus tried to pick a fight, he cleaned his clock in about 30 seconds. I just sat and watched, gave my info to the CPO and division officer and saw the doofus on his way to the brig. Yes, my weird friend got a bit more respect from that day forward. Frankly, I don't care if people want to dress up like Eva Braun; if they aren't messing with you then don't be messing with them. The war is over.
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 8:07:49 AM EDT
People are interested in Nazi memorabilia for all sorts of reasons. It's not always easy to determine which category someone selling a nazi dagger falls into. *Anal collectors. The equivalent of comic book store guy in the Simpsons. Working on finishing his collection of all 1,748 Nazi daggers. He only needs the Lower Saxony Sanitation Engineer Formal Cerimonial Dagger to finish. *"Transgressive" types. If all the suits dislike Nazis, then it must be really daring to use Nazi symbology. *Historical types. Grandad brought back a bunch of stuff from the war. Let's do some re-enactments. *Genuine Nazis.
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 9:46:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 10:10:02 AM EDT
Kind of related Do you guys remember the 82nd soldiers at Ft. Bragg (I think) that killed a black man while he was walking along the road. One of these rasicst sh*ts had a tatoo of a SS officers and soldier on his chest. A reporter asked him if he knew what the SS was. He replied in his best beavis and butthead voice, "hu hu they were soldier i guess."
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 11:06:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Schnert: Why is it that at any gunshow you'll see some lardbutt in an Afrika Korps uniform?
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Why do you even care...it's a gunshow, not a fashion show. Was he at least accessorizing properly?
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 8:41:32 PM EDT
Yeah, and let's all get really mad about those racist southerners that "play dress-up" and perform the civil war reenactments. Or is that different?Or those computer geek/black rifle having-waiting-or-Y2K-or-Armagheddon dudes that go to those "training facilities"like Gunsite? If you can't tell a real Nazi from a dress up Nazi maybe you will deserve the ass kicking you get from the guy you choose to thump without provocation.
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 12:19:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Schnert: Why is it that at any gunshow you'll see some lardbutt in an Afrika Korps uniform?
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I've been to a bunch of shows, and seen no one in a German uniform, or even a hat. There is a single table there selling insignia, etc. You will find that the German stuff is just a fraction of what he has, the rest being primarily U.S. unit patches, medals & ribbons. I wasn't looking at his butt, so I can't tell you anything about that. Maybe there is something special about your experience - I just don't see that much of it, and kind of wonder if your perception is or isn't representative of gun shows in general.
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 4:59:29 AM EDT
prk makes a good point. Some shows have a bunch of these guys, some shows don't. The worst one was when they tried a version of the Great Western (the former giant L.A. gun show) in Las Vegas about a year back or so. Seemed like every other table was just a bunch of nazi stuff, and a lot of it was new production and not collector's items, like T-shirts with nazi junk all over them. Maybe it's because most of the dealers were from Californistan, where the nazi party has been in control of the legislature for quite some time . . . Anyway, re-enactors are cool. But I just think a lot of these boys parade around in this stuff because they like nazis. If they like nazis, I don't like them.
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 6:10:56 AM EDT
Let's see, I lost an uncle at the battle of the Hedges at St. Lo. Should have lost one at the Buldge for what his life was like afterwards. Seems we missed our chance by waiting till August to use the first bomb. We used it then to end the war early. Imagine all the white crosses that would not be stuck up in Normandy if we had used it earlier. Nazis, screw them!
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 7:35:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chairborne_Ranger: Maybe it's because most of the dealers were from Californistan, where the nazi party has been in control of the legislature for quite some time . . .
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Ouch [stick] reminding us of that on election [soapbox] day was pretty cruel. Interesting - the little guy on the soapbox is red. How fitting.
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 3:24:00 PM EDT
Okay... okay... What if some "history buff" decides he wants to provide an authentic portrayal of a Taliban fighter? So the dude plays dress-up and grabs his AK so that he can go out and play in the woods with his buddies. Would that inspire in you... perhaps... anger? I'm certain that you'd take the time to "dialogue" with him about his political proclivites. Heck, that beared dude might have even voted for G.W.! But don't pre-judge him on his image alone, because deep down underneath that evil garb he just might be a great guy.[whacko]
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 3:57:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 4:09:11 PM EDT
Aimless, Ethically you are correct. In a republic that values individual liberty and freedom people have the innate right to dress as they will. My point is that I just hate seeing people in WWII German uniforms. Many of my relatives have been wounded or killed while wearing those very same uniforms. And for what? That's why seeing people sporting nazi regalia moves me to anger. I personally hold nothing against historians or collectors, however some re-enactors can really "push my buttons." I guess I just can't logically reconcile myself to the fact that some people enjoy wearing the uniforms of the Third Reich. -Schnert
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 4:19:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2002 4:20:10 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 4:26:39 PM EDT
My definition of 'blitzkrieg'------- A person sneaks up behind a guy sitting in a chair,and as hard as he can,hits him in the back of his head,and then calls himself a bad mother fucker because he knocked the guy out. Do I have this right? Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 11:09:10 PM EDT
You'll notice that reenactor group websites all state that Axis uniforms are not to be worn outside of events. Maybe you could try the novel approach of TALKING to the guy and see what his malfunction is. Maybe he got lost on the way home from his Dungeons & Dragons tournament. In my town, the local retard wears a Stallhelm (with some reflective paint dots on it) while he rides his bike around( Unlike California , Nevada doesn't let retards have driver's licenses).
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 11:32:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KheSanhDon: My definition of 'blitzkrieg'------- A person sneaks up behind a guy sitting in a chair,and as hard as he can,hits him in the back of his head,and then calls himself a bad mother fucker because he knocked the guy out. Do I have this right? Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
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Absolutely correct. Thank god our country has never resorted to these dastardly sneak attacks. Imagine how many Vietmanese we would have killed if we'd have been allowed to use the cowardly sneak attack, otherwise known as an "ambush." Thank Jesus. I'd hate to think of the death toll among the Redcoats if our guys had fought from behind cover instead of fighting in formation like a man. That's the most idiotic over-simplification of the blitzkrieg I've ever seen.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 3:23:28 AM EDT
let me say several things here: 1 I am German 2 I am Jewish 3 I go to a lot of gunshows 4 I am a cop 5 I am in the military Now with that being said, I see quite a bit of Nazi stuff at shows. I understand that militaria is something for the collector. However, it makes me both sick to my stomach and it also amuses me at the same time when I see a dude with ww2 German army clothing on at the omnipresent "Nazi stand" This stand has everything from Hitler mugs to marching songs of the ss. I would like to kick the owner's and patrons' ass BUT this is America isn't it! Besides most of these wannabes are fat f@#ks and have zero military time other than their little pro Nazi paintball tournaments!
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 4:05:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By huey: ...other than their little pro Nazi paintball tournaments!
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Please tell me you're kidding about that part. I play PB occasionally, and hadn't heard of a pro-Nazi element. But I'm not really into tournament play. Or are these particular events something you usually only find out about when you're in the middle of the Nazi crowd?
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 4:30:43 AM EDT
I am kidding about that part!! You know what I am saying. I play paint ball myself on occasion. My point is, most of the types I have seen at these stands couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 5:45:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2002 5:51:38 PM EDT by shooter69]
Originally Posted By Schnert: What if some "history buff" decides he wants to provide an authentic portrayal of a Taliban fighter? So the dude plays dress-up and grabs his AK so that he can go out and play in the woods with his buddies.
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Apples and oranges Mr. Schnert. We are talking about DEFEATED enemies (and have been for some time). The Third Reich, Soviet Union, etc. are gone. Any of their equipment can also be considered war booty. If that's the best arguement you have left, just give it up.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 5:50:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KheSanhDon: My definition of 'blitzkrieg'------- A person sneaks up behind a guy sitting in a chair,and as hard as he can,hits him in the back of his head,and then calls himself a bad mother fucker because he knocked the guy out. Do I have this right?
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No. If however you have a dozen guys running around fifty or so opponents and slapping them, pinching their noses, poking them in the eye, and other three stooges-like behavior, while the fifty stand there stunned and disorganized... you would be getting closer.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 6:47:41 PM EDT
Good lord, if it weren't for the smell of hypocriscy, this would be a dull place indeed. Those very same folks crying about the "horrors" of Nazi Germany, are the same ones who run out and spend their last nickle on a "genuine" Mauser with the "original" Star of David imprint. Governments are rarely new, and rarely entirely evil. The German philosophy of going after Jews in general, for the crimes and subterfuge of a minority of European Jews is bewailed as the most heinous act ever known to man. YET....the SAME phoney baloneys that decry it as such, line up to CHEER Israel attacks on Palestinian villages over the act of a lone terrorist. Killing innocent Palestinians over a nail bomb exloded at an Israeli checkpoint? GOOD! Killing Jewish civilians over assasinations during WWII? BAD! It's all TOO funny. Europeans have NO right to a land free of Jews. Jews have EVERY right to a land free of Palestinians. Perception is merely a matter of good press, and I'd venture to say that if Hitler and his cause had been Jewish, the monkey brigade would still be sobbing wildly over the "justness" of his cause. Patton had great respect for the German soldier, and RIGHTLY remarked that the term Nazi meant nothing more than Democrat or Republican in America. The fact that America supported a TRULY evil regime in Soviet Russia, sacrificing half of Europe as an appeasement, should tell Americans far more about themselves than they care to observe.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 6:52:33 PM EDT
shooter69, You are making a falacious distinction. My analogy stands. -Schnert
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 7:18:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Schnert: shooter69, You are making a falacious distinction. My analogy stands. -Schnert
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No, not really. The Taliban is a real and breathing enemy who have aided in the destruction of thousands of americans and are a real threat TODAY. We just lost seven guys to them. I'm Sorry you can't tell difference.
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