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Posted: 3/1/2002 11:50:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2002 2:06:53 AM EDT by kentstate4]
Really could any u defend ur selves if the goverment intends to disarm it citizens. yours thoughts
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 11:55:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2002 11:56:08 PM EDT by DoubleFeed]
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 12:01:07 AM EDT
A cell phone with 911 on autodial would be the most effective protection from government tyranny.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 12:47:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 12:59:18 AM EDT
Uhm... Too many mushrooms?
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 1:00:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 2:04:19 AM EDT
Dude, are you on crack or something?
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 3:43:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kentstate4: Really could any u defend ur selves if the goverment intends to disarm it citizens. yours thoughts
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I think a bunch of old, dead white guys brought up the same reservation, oh, about 225+ years ago. Look how that turned out.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 6:05:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Originally Posted By kentstate4: Really could any u defend ur selves if the goverment intends to disarm it citizens. yours thoughts
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I think a bunch of old, dead white guys brought up the same reservation, oh, about 225+ years ago. Look how that turned out.
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They didn't have to face remote controlled night vision drones with hellfire missiles, nor helicopters.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 6:20:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 6:23:02 AM EDT
Really could any u defend ur selves if the goverment intends to disarm it citizens. yours thoughts
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uhh..yeah. They aren't going to drop bombs or missiles on us...if this is going to be done, it has to be done with men...and you may hide from my .223, but you won't hide from my .308...and you can't hide from my .338 Lapua. QS out
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 6:23:54 AM EDT
Post from fight4yourrights -
I think a bunch of old, dead white guys brought up the same reservation, oh, about 225+ years ago. Look how that turned out.
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Yeah, their great, great grandchildren are pissing their rights away! It's obscene! Eric The(Disaffected)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 6:56:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 7:02:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2002 7:07:39 AM EDT by The_Beer_Slayer]
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 11:59:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: while the technology is a major advantage on open terrain. The area i am in is heavy woodlands. It would be very difficult to be spotted from the air with a conventional lens. Flearcould spot you but it would still be dificult to get a hit from a remote vehicle. Ground troops would still be needed to clear such an area. With a deer hunter in every tree and us other gun nuts all over the place it would be a tough fight. There is a BIG differnce in fighting a rebel group in the woods and fighting almost every house in a state that is armed. The casulty rates would be HIGH on both sides. So yes, it can be done.
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Resupply can be a bit of a problem in the woods once you get past the short-term. Then the other question of when just in the woods, is there some other objective beyond just surviving?
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 12:20:13 PM EDT
I love the smell of carrots in the afternoon
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 12:45:53 PM EDT
There is no way that you can defend yourself.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 12:54:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: There is no way that you can defend yourself.
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Sad, but probably true. When they target an individual they use 20, 30 or more. How can one man stand against something like that?
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 1:00:00 PM EDT
Think napalm. Instant, well-done "patriot". Buh-bye!
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 1:03:05 PM EDT
20-30??? The latest police raid in Durham, the one that turned up one gun (an old police revolver at that) involved over 100 cops, all heavily armed and armored. I expect the gun grabbers to come in even greater numbers. If people don't band together, they will die one by one. Trouble is, banding together introduces the problem of snitches--and snitches play a big role these days and will play an even bigger one in what is coming.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 1:18:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 1:20:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AlClenin:
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Originally Posted By kentstate4: Really could any u defend ur selves if the goverment intends to disarm it citizens. yours thoughts
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I think a bunch of old, dead white guys brought up the same reservation, oh, about 225+ years ago. Look how that turned out.
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They didn't have to face remote controlled night vision drones with hellfire missiles, nor helicopters.
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Most of which can't be used in the cities. Plus, think of all the ex-military, and military contractors that build the stuff that will be on our side.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 2:11:25 PM EDT
As usual I'm confused. Do not our various governments already control us [?]
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 2:35:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: As usual I'm confused. Do not our various governments already control us [?]
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This one hits the nail on the head. We are controled, they don't need our guns. Any law they want passed, they pass, we don't argue about it. A small vocal few, but we are lazy and give up after a while. We let them raise taxes,raise the price of services, keep themselves in power with cfr,feed a needy class, and we let them. The guns are just to keep is with the thought that we are still free....fullclip
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 2:40:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kentstate4: Really could any u defend ur selves if the goverment intends to disarm it citizens. yours thoughts
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Don't be silly. Of course I can. I would just break out my wad of "playmoney" and buy off the Elite. With the new changes in procedures to be introduced in the near future, I would overcome any opposition forces left over by overwhelming use of "nerf balls", "nerf bats" and my ultimate secret weapon.... "nerf chemical gas". There is a pun in there somewhere.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 2:49:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2002 2:52:42 PM EDT by AlClenin]
Originally Posted By fullclip:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: As usual I'm confused. Do not our various governments already control us [?]
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This one hits the nail on the head. We are controled, they don't need our guns. Any law they want passed, they pass, we don't argue about it. A small vocal few, but we are lazy and give up after a while. We let them raise taxes,raise the price of services, keep themselves in power with cfr,feed a needy class, and we let them. The guns are just to keep is with the thought that we are still free....fullclip
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So what, other than gun siezure, should be the "last straw" that sparks violence? I don't think any armed rebellion can happen until people stop being comfortable. Face it, even at a tax rate of 80% people probably wouldn't do anything provided they have TV, full bellies, sports, and beer.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 3:05:45 PM EDT
If it comes down the the US military attacking us on our home turf survival will be our only concern for awhile. No way the gerneral poplulace could go head to head with the army. Let alone the rest of the military forces at once. My point was it would take a hardcore hit and run approach just to survive. Resupply would be done by capture. If you don't survive long enough to capture anything it's a moot point anyway.
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The Army, Navy, AirForce, and Marines are sworn to uphold the Constitution of these United States. Not the power. As such and through the many many people I have known that are in the military or were in the military. They are all very aware of to WHAT they took their oath to and they are also aware that is was not taken to ANYONE. The military will come down on the side of the populace. Maybe even for just one reason. If the populace is wrong then you can always put back another government. If the government is wrong and you support them , then you could potentially end up living with it for 100 years or more. If that means absolute tyranny and the Military supported than they are screwed to. Don't worry about the military. Besides the country can be changed still through Education, and voting. We are nowhere near a tyranny. The only people that would support the "alphabet" agencies would be the politicians in charge. Everyone knows what the score is. Everyone knows what the tally is. Everybody including the a good percentage of THOSE SAME POLITICIANS, THOSE SAME LEO's , etc who would be counted on to try to help the government would merely wash their hands of that very same gubment. The only way way we are going to get tyranny is the same way and the only way that Democrats and the like know how. They will have to have the populace vote themselves into it. Education will get a shot at saving the nation long before guns ever will. EDUCATION;EDUCATION;EDUCATION. Benjamin
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 3:17:55 PM EDT
alclenin, you are right 100%. The only thing that could incite us to arms would be racial violence, but I don't see that happening. As for the military or police confications, you have to remember they are citizens too,they will not give up the freedoms the country stands for on a simple order from superiors. The only way ours guns will be lost is Austrailian style...fullclip
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 4:05:27 PM EDT
I agree with Fullclip and Benjamin, but if it did happen...Military with reserves activated 1.5 million men, law enforcement, gov't agencies .5 million. 2 million vs 270 million. What percent of that 2 million wouldn't participate? half? There are 9 million veterans in the country and a gun for everyone. The only weapons the military has for use against unmounted troops are small arms. Just like the civilians but in worse shape. Tanks don't do well against men. They wouldn't carpet bomb a neighborhood to get one owner. The current military is indoctrinated in controlling collateral damage. The Navy, Coast Guard and Air Force would have to sit this one out except for air and logistical support. Army and Marine infantry are it. Who thinks 500,000 men with M-16's can take on 270 million people? The Vietcong did it with under 1 million.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 5:03:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 5:12:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: GreenLocust, Negatory Negatory! Do a little research on nonlethal weapons. Just off the top of my head: spotlights and lasers that blind aggressors, vehical mounted devices that cause pain by way of directed microwave beams, nets fired from shotguns, etc. And this does not take into account the intense reconnaissance capabilities of the U.S. military: UAVs that can stay up for days, with infrared tracking systems on board, man portable IR systems, acoustic and seismic sensors, the face recognition technology, ad infinitum. When somebody can detail what kind of impact the deployment of those weapons will have upon a renegade force who has no countermeasures, then you will be getting closer to the real picture of what such a war would look like.
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And remember the operators fielding these weapons will be SMALL and INVISIBLE!!! BEWARE!! (heh)
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 5:30:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2002 5:31:57 PM EDT by Benjamin0001]
Yeah I can see it now, the US ARMY SPECIAL FORCES Says, Too hell with these politicians lets go help our own. They cordinate with the marines, and the marines cordinate with the Navy, and they get the airforce and before you know it. 535 members of congress and 10,000's of the alphebet agencies face the combined might of the US ARMED FORCES and the Militia. Which is how it would go , not the other way around. So don't worry about it. How many active military including Special Forces are on this board. I am telling you not to worry about it. The military knows what to do. They know two things. They know that they wouldn't fire on their parents and they know that they wouldn't fire on US citizens. They also know their alegance to the constitution they also know who and What Democrats are and they know Who and What Republicans are and they know who and what Libertarians are. If they don't then their commanders DO!!. The politicos in Washington know this. You think that the Clintons were not ACCUTELY AWARE of the level of DISDAIN THE MILITARY HAD FOR THEM. I can't see it happening in any scenario. The powers that be would have to lie to the military and there would be someone saying wait a second.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 5:43:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: They know that they wouldn't fire on their parents and they know that they wouldn't fire on US citizens.
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The Chinese Army experienced this during the Tianmen Square protests. They solved the problem by replacing the troops local to the area (probably with relatives in the Square) with those from far away and with no sympathies. The rest is history. Same thing will happen here.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 5:49:01 PM EDT
The only reason the Chinese got away with it is because they told those soldiers that if they DIDN"T DO IT WHEN THEY GOT HOME THERE WOULD BE NO ONE LEFT TO GO HOME TO. You think the US government is going to say the same thing to its soldiers. NO! Ben
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 5:54:27 PM EDT
Yes they would, only they would say that it would be the "enemy" who are the ones that would kill their families. The military already has very capable psyops departments to "convince" the troops.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 5:58:47 PM EDT
Well Guys, From the looks of it OUR SIDE IS WINNING THIS FIGHT. WE HAVE SUCCEEDED IN TURNING BACK SOME LAWS. WE HAVE A PERSON VERY HIGH UP WHO SAYS THAT HE AGREES WITH THE INTERPRETATION THAT THE 2ND AMENDMENT IS A INDIVIDUAL RIGHT. WE HAVE STOPPED THE PASSAGE OF SOME VERY DAMAGING LAWS AND WE HAVE PASSED SOME MORE THAT EXPANDED OUR FREEDOMS. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT I CAN OWN CLASS III FIREARMS AND I CAN OWN ANY FIREARM I WANT. OKLAHOMA WHERE I LIVE IS ONE RED BLOODED AMERICANS STATES BESIDES A HANDFUL OF OTHERS THATS LIBERTIES HAVE NOT BEEN DEGRADED LIKE THOSE OF CALIFORNIA , AND NEW YORK AND NEW JERSEY. Those are the hotspots. California is pretty much lost, they may get better with time, but buy the time that happens they may not be anyone left in california who gives a damn , they will have moved ELSEWHERE.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 6:02:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: Well Guys, From the looks of it OUR SIDE IS WINNING THIS FIGHT. WE HAVE SUCCEEDED IN TURNING BACK SOME LAWS. WE HAVE A PERSON VERY HIGH UP WHO SAYS THAT HE AGREES WITH THE INTERPRETATION THAT THE 2ND AMENDMENT IS A INDIVIDUAL RIGHT. WE HAVE STOPPED THE PASSAGE OF SOME VERY DAMAGING LAWS AND WE HAVE PASSED SOME MORE THAT EXPANDED OUR FREEDOMS. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT I CAN OWN CLASS III FIREARMS AND I CAN OWN ANY FIREARM I WANT. OKLAHOMA WHERE I LIVE IS ONE RED BLOODED AMERICANS STATES BESIDES A HANDFUL OF OTHERS THATS LIBERTIES HAVE NOT BEEN DEGRADED LIKE THOSE OF CALIFORNIA , AND NEW YORK AND NEW JERSEY. Those are the hotspots. California is pretty much lost, they may get better with time, but buy the time that happens they may not be anyone left in california who gives a damn , they will have moved ELSEWHERE.
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Which laws were turned back?
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 6:19:20 PM EDT
A kevlar wheelbarrow! Paul Moderator you are a genius! I can't afford kevlar, but I have steel plate that would stop .308. Use it as a decoy, appearing to be involved in work, and then tip it up as a shield!
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 6:30:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 7:35:16 PM EDT
For those who think that police and military won't follow unconstitutional orders one word: CAGE There will not be a big battle on americas streets. There will be snipers taking shots at LEOs on the roadside, attacks on infastructure, a very guerilla operation. Just my thoughts
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 7:54:39 PM EDT
What does CAGE stand for?
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 8:08:57 PM EDT
Yes i'm the class of 95,and i'm just like anyone else to further my knowledge of WTF is going on in the USA. That is not broadcasted on CNN 24/7. And also to maybe try in my own little way to change the world by being an informed citizen, so hopefully we can finallly have some peace without any war.[V] If u think u can defend urselves,just curious how one can defend there selves from biological weapons. We all know the goverment has used these weapons on america troops and it's citizens!!!!!!!! scary[:O] Seems to me the fire hoses did a # in the 1960's and they also get mr.weaver easly,not to mention the koresh clan was taken down. For me fellas I will give my weapons to them and be glad to do it. i full trust my government would NOT harm it's citizens unless a clear and present danger to the usa. kentstate out peace
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 8:16:01 PM EDT
Chicago Area Gun Enforcment They are among other things building a full registration database on all US Citizens.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 8:18:54 PM EDT
KENTSTATE4, just for fun, who or what in the "government"? For me, it is just a large collection of egos trying to be the biggest dog on the block, a collection of individuals in it for themselves. as for the chemical test, IIRC the ones involved were not trying to control a population, just testing, and it was brought to light. I doubt anyone would try it again. Just my .02, I tink most of the laws the congressmen and senators introduce are just to keep them at the public trough, keep the sheep happy, they will keep you in office...fullclip
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 8:31:15 PM EDT
The only thing I trust my gov't to do is take my damn tax money and spend it however big business tells it to. I feel sorry for those who have already given up the fight before the first shot is even fired. Our ancestors did not die for that. If there is only a small percentage of the population left that still believes in freedom enough to spill some blood (including there own) then it just means the memorial they build for us when we win won't have to be very big. Something along the size of Rhode Island should do the trick!!!
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 8:36:05 PM EDT
First thing first, i take offence to the SKS comment. lol Second it's FLIR, Forward Looking Infa Red Third I AM IN the military, we take an oath to defend our country from all threats, foreign AND domestic, and i would view this action as a domestic threat, the government action that is, and I personally know MANY fellow members that feel the same way, so that's less people in the military for this action, and more against it, yes we do follow orders, BUT we DO NOT follow unlawful orders, and military action against our own citizens over a gun issue would be UNLAWFUL.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 8:42:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2002 8:43:46 PM EDT by fullclip]
Originally Posted By blackeye: The only thing I trust my gov't to do is take my damn tax money and spend it however big business tells it to. I feel sorry for those who have already given up the fight before the first shot is even fired. Our ancestors did not die for that. If there is only a small percentage of the population left that still believes in freedom enough to spill some blood (including there own) then it just means the memorial they build for us when we win won't have to be very big. Something along the size of Rhode Island should do the trick!!!
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the sad part is, to keep up the fight, all you have to do is vote...fullclip
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 2:45:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kentstate4: Really could any u defend ur selves if the goverment intends to disarm it citizens. yours thoughts
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Thank you for editing your post shortly after I posted. What was originally there called your sanity into question, or at least state of intoxication...
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