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Posted: 3/1/2002 12:40:29 PM EDT
[url]www.msnbc.com/news/717680.asp?0dm=C12RN[/url] From Article... March 1 — President Bush has dispatched a shadow government of about 100 senior civilian managers to live and work secretly outside Washington, activating for the first time long-standing plans to ensure survival of federal rule after catastrophic attack on the nation’s capital. What do you think??
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 1:02:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2002 1:03:24 PM EDT by Fearandloathing37]
I think we are living in the most dangerous period of American history since the Cuban missle Crisis. If our enemys, manage to smuggle a couple of suit case nukes into the right American cities, we cound very easily lose as many of our citizens in an single day, as the Jews lost in the holocaust. I think the term Shadow Goverment, As used by the press, is sensationalism, meant to get news ratings. The plan to preserve the continuity of goverment is nothing new, it was designed, back in the 50's to protect our command and control ability, in the event that an enemy power lauched a decapitating nuclear attack agaist Washington and other national leadership targets. This is a perfectly sane precaution, in the wake of 9-11, and I have no problem with it. Of course, The black helicopter, U.N. is going to take over the United States crowd, will yell and scream, that it's all some X-files conspiracy to enslave them. But then again, they do that with every issue.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 1:10:32 PM EDT
I think they've been there all along. Maybe this particular group is just now being dispatched, but if you think Mt. Weather et. al. have been sitting empty all these years, you're either stupid or naive.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 2:02:20 PM EDT
I would agree with both of those sentiments. MSNBC writes there stories in such a way that their use of terms never fit the scenario presented in the story. I think it is manipulative at best. In other words Shadow is the wrong term to use in the context of the plan. Their writers are either sensationalist/manipulative (to the unwary) or they have hired writers with IQ's number in the high seventies to get that degree NON Accuracy which leads to the same degree on non precision. But hay Whatever gets the Sheeples Attention. Don't look at it... Don't think about it... There is nothing you can do... Merely thank public education for the monument it has erected in the name of making the merely smart look brilliant. As for the subject of the article itself. I don't know whether to look at it from the point of view of NO-biggy it has been around since the fifties. Theirs a part of me that looks at it from the point of view of PREPERATION FOR THE FUTURE, reading it as Bush is about to start kicking ass and taking names and merely wants to be prepared for the repurcussions. And the biggest part of me says this IS NO story at all, Given the fact that it didn't come off of the REUTERS/APNEWWIRE. IN fact the article itself has non of these things. Hence I think it is an article which was created out of thin air. Because there is no news right now!!!! Benjamin
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 2:35:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2002 2:38:38 PM EDT by Hoplophile]
Their writers are either sensationalist/manipulative (to the unwary) or they have hired writers with IQ's number in the high seventies to get that degree NON Accuracy which leads to the same degree on non precision.
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Exactly. From the way people are talking you'd think it's a complete surprise to them that the government has underground facilities and backup plans. My personal favorites are the ones who seem to think that FEMA's presence at Mt Weather is a 'cover' for the 'secret' base underneath. There's no way that an organization that was created to keep the government running during and after a nuclear attack could have anything to with a bunker is there? Those guys just go around helping people after earthquakes and floods, right? You'll never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the general public.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 2:47:13 PM EDT
Good for him! I'm sure this isn't a new idea. We spent 50 years planning against a Soviet attack. Same sh*t different enemy. Watch-Six
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 4:53:40 PM EDT
I am not saying I wouldn't do it. Its S.O.P. . FEMA is the first federal agency that I thought of when I was reading the story. They are probably the third in line behind DOD for ensuring the survival of the US and what portion of its citizens it can save. But even that brings us to the ABSURDITY of the hole things. With a limited nuclear strike it would still be pretty much Every man and Every group taking care of those within. Because when something like that happens you are going to see the Banking system crash, The stock market crash, Civil service for the elderly and poor will crash, sanitation, sewege, everything. Massive power outages, distribution and trucking industry crashing. Marshall Law. good god what a nightmare that would be. If they attack the east coast versus the west coast is a hole nother ball of wax. If they target New York then the fallout will go into the ocean, if they target California, then the Fallout will head out over the Continental United States. Oh well.... What the hell can you do?? Ben
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 4:54:49 PM EDT
Gee, I have been telling people about FEMA's original function when created by Carter, and the numerous continuation of government plans REX 84 (i.e. martial law) for over a decade. I was met with the standard "tin foil hat" bullshit. I hope you all enjoy what happens next.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 5:18:31 PM EDT
This is why the RKBA is emmunerated in the Constitution. Its also why we're here [X]
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 5:21:11 PM EDT
My two cents.. shouldn't somebody who's ostensibly an advocate of government playing a less important role in people's lives, NOT be obsessed with the continuation of an incredibly huge bureaucracy machine? This is my opinion, I've held it a long, long time and I continue to hold it: go ahead, kill my president. Bomb the senate. Do your worst! And when you are done, we will shrug it off, reorganize, defeat our enemies and be better than ever. That is the beauty of real democracy, and WAS the beauty of America. The fact that the Bush Administration, just like the Clinton Administration (in truth, the similarities are far greater than the differences), is obsessed with protecting the _bureaucracy of government_, not the country. The system we were given by the founding fathers, clearly provides for severe contingencies. We built the country from scratch once, and we could do it again if we had to. However, the system that exists today is NOT that (constitutional) system. It is a system which is indeed very vulnerable as it is a huge bureaucracy which exists, as I said, with a main purpose of self-preservation and propagation. The actual reason for these steps is indeed as Benjamin said, "to ensure the survival of [b]federal rule[/b]". Unfortunately, I sometimes wonder if the catastrophic loss of our current government would not be a boon to the cause of freedom and democracy in the United States. After all, the current regime of Federal hegemony (arguably in existence since the Civil War) is, after all, the primary adversary of individual rights and freedom in the U.S. today. What are there, 800,000 plus Federal employees? I don't remember voting for more than a handful of them.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 5:25:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2002 5:38:06 PM EDT by Benjamin0001]
Imbroglio, I have a question for you. Is it true that you are the first program to ever pass the turing test?? Benjamin JUST TO ADD TO THE CONFUSION:NO PUN INTENDED or would that be a Double Entendre
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 5:35:50 PM EDT
Maelcum wrote: [qoute] The actual reason for these steps is indeed as Benjamin said, "to ensure the survival of federal rule". [/quote] Well actually that is quoted direct from the article. I should have used real quotes. But still, Federal will not rule after that sort of thing they may survive. But I am more interested in the sum of human knowledge surviving. The constitution surviving and ME surviving. I can see it now. I AM YOUR KING. I DIDN'T VOTE FOR YOU. IT DOESN'T MATTER, I'M STILL YOUR KING. HELP HELP I'M BEING REPRESSED; COME SEE THE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM, COME SEE THE ...INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM. But you get the point. GOD MADE MAN , COLT MADE MAN EQUAL.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 5:47:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 6:39:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: Gee, I have been telling people about FEMA's original function when created by Carter, and the numerous continuation of government plans REX 84 (i.e. martial law) for over a decade. I was met with the standard "tin foil hat" bullshit. I hope you all enjoy what happens next.
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Oh yes, the horror! God forbid that the US government should have a contingency plan in case the capital is attacked...it OBVIOUSLY means they plan to declare martial law and take all our guns away and put us in a gulag.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 5:16:57 AM EDT
The shadow govt? Isn't that the CFR?
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 5:25:04 AM EDT
I wonder if they know something and are not telling the general public? Our government wouldn't do that:)
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 6:30:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2002 6:36:10 AM EDT by Fearandloathing37]
If This is'nt the opening of this weeks Satuday Night Live, I'll always wonder how they missed it. As The scene opens, We See Dick Cheney,dressed in A dark black suit and wrap around sunglasses. Flanked by Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith, In the same Men in Black garb. Cheney: Hello America, it has come to our attention, that you may have some Questions about the Shadow Goverment, And it Role and function. As you know a Evil Zelot has emerged in the world, A man so Evil in fact that he has designs on nothing less than the destruction of America and our way very way of life. Cheney Picks up a picture of Tom Dashel and shows it to the camera: Cheney: So the President Has asked myself, select members of the Goverment, The Counsil on Foriegn Relations, the Illuminati and members of the Scull and Bones fraternity, Along with our good friend Dr. Henry Kissenger... Cheney Motions to his right, The Camera pans, To Show Henry Kissinger, Sitting in a wheel Chair, wearing one Black leather Glove. Kissenger: Hellooo...Mien Fu, I mean Mr. Vice President. It is Such a pleasure to serve the Fatherla, I mean Homeland again. The camera pans back to Cheney. Cheney: now as you can see, This is just a precaution, There is absolutely nothing to worry about. in the event, that the unthinkable happens, And this Evil man (Points to the Picture of Dashel,) Were to in fact destroy the goverment, We, down here, in this top secret bunker would survive to fight on. Hell this place is so secret, That Every one, who comes down here has their memory Erased, with one of these thingies. Tommy Lee Jones hands Cheney a Silver, cylindrical wand with a light in the top. Cheney: this little gizzmo here, just zaps the location of this top secret facility, right out of your mind. Of course we might have used it maybe, on or two times too many on the President, When he was down here. You think thats why, he has that vacant look in his eyes, when he gives those press briefings? Well no matter. We just want you to know that in the event, that something terrible happens and millions of you, are incinerated in your beds. That the Shadow Goverment, will be on the job. Is'nt that right henry... Camera Pans to Kissenger: Kissenger:Thats right mien Vice president. Kissengers Gloved hand suddeny Explodes from the Arm of the Chair, into a Nazi Salute, Which he quickly grabs with his other hand and wrestles the offending limb back down. Cheney: LIVE FROM MOUNT WEATHER, IT'S SATURDAY NIGHT.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 6:46:48 AM EDT
Everybody got their SHTF gear in order? Personal defense-(Guns and ammo), Water-(bulk and filtration), food-(cans, grains, MRE), essential meds and 1st aid, survival implements (knives, shovel, axe,etc.), Shelter (home and road), Clothing- (street, winter, cammo) Heat and light provisions (fuel and fire starting gear)..... check out the minimum equipment the Feds think you should have: [url]www.fema.gov/library/emfdwtr.htm [/url] The Feds are making preparations- Have you?
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 7:57:25 AM EDT
when something like that happens you are going to see the Banking system crash, The stock market crash, Civil service for the elderly and poor will crash, sanitation, sewege, everything. Massive power outages, distribution and trucking industry crashing. Marshall Law. good god what a nightmare that would be.
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Just out of curiosity, are you familiar with the powers deligated to FEMA in the event of disaster? The people who saw fit to create FEMA knew all of what you are talking about, and FEMA has spent the past 40 years planning, 'war gaming', planning again, practicing, etc. what it will take to manage all of that. As to declaring martial law, if martial law is declared it will be FEMA that administers that law. Basically FEMA gets: - control of all airports, shipping, trains, highways, and international ports of entry - control of all power production - control of food supplies - legal ability to force people to relocate to different areas and to organize them into work parties. - control of the national guard to make the above happen. Obviously the actual implementation of the above may not be too easy, but they have had a few decades to plan.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 8:08:25 AM EDT
As if Art Bell did not have enough to talk about alread.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 9:14:29 AM EDT
I know where my ass will be. And it ain't gonna be in the city that is damn sure. Ben
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 4:30:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2002 4:32:35 PM EDT by Fearandloathing37]
Hoplophile, Is quite right, The law, to which he refers, is called "The Emergency Powers Act" Signed by Richard Nixon in the early 70's. I first ran Across it in the late great Mel Tappen's book,"Tappan on Survival" in the early 80's. While some what dated, Tappen on Survival, is one of the best books ever written on retreating theory and how to survive disasters, both natural and man made. This tome of the early survivalist movement (written before the NeoNazi's, Revolutionaries and Anti-Goverment loony toons, gave the movement a bad name.) is refreshingly devoid of political or religious overtones. Just how to retreat and survive. No other BS. His debunking of the Lone wolf," I'm going to grab my backpack and my rifle and head for the hills when the S**t hits the fan", Myth is of great intrest. Tappan Wrote of the need to find a small community, away from the hubs of Disaster and to make your self a vital member of that community. not a survival Community, mind you, but just small town America. He wrote about Community networking, and vital skills, Not turning the country, into Bosnia, in some mad attemp to recreat the American Revolution. I'm not to worried about the Federal Survival Contigency Plan, It's needed, To preserve order, and to keep the lunitic fringe, who pray daily for national Disaster, so they might, loose their Taliban like form of violent anarchy on the public, At bay. If I have my choice, of FEMA or the "So Called Patriot movement, then, I'll take the Shadow Goverment Every Time.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 5:42:20 PM EDT
Actually in this particular scenario in this particular environment I would side with fearandLoathing. The threat in case of outside war touching SOIL (AGAIN) and Americans is of the utmost worry. I would still not be in town. There is somewhere I would go , another town. However I got to thinking last night that access in this situation to resources that may otherwise be unavailable such as medical care would best be gotten in a town. And the fact that if a situation was extreme enough for example many cities effected say 100 or more. You could see the towns in America become very CLANISH.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 8:36:37 PM EDT
Very scary article here: [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29406-2002Mar2.html[/url] GunLvr
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