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Posted: 3/1/2002 4:26:11 AM EDT
Here is the URL. [url]http://www.wiesenthal.com/social/press/pr_item.cfm?ItemID=5166[/url]
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 4:51:14 AM EDT
So tell me, what is "hate". You don't like someone or their agenda, thats hate??
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 5:07:29 AM EDT
Granted the white supremists are IDIOTS, but then again so is Wiesnthal. He was a visiting lecturer at my alma mater and I sat in on some of his "rants". He's quite a paradox. It's as if he hates hate so much that he's willing to become what he loaths. Didn't Nietzsche quip that "Men often become what they fight."?
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 5:24:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: So tell me, what is "hate". You don't like someone or their agenda, thats hate??
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If you don't like me, that's "hate". If I don't like you, that's "diversity". [whacko]
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 7:15:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Schnert: Granted the white supremists are IDIOTS, but then again so is Wiesnthal. He was a visiting lecturer at my alma mater and I sat in on some of his "rants". He's quite a paradox. It's as if he hates hate so much that he's willing to become what he loaths. Didn't Nietzsche quip that "Men often become what they fight."?
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First, I'd doubt if Nietzsche ever "quipped"- he strikes me as the serious type. Second, I think Weisenthal has earned to right to rant, don't you? Read his bio and then decide. Would *you* have the courage to do what he's done? [url]http://www.wiesenthal.com/about/wiesenthal_bio.cfm[/url]
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 7:22:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: So tell me, what is "hate". You don't like someone or their agenda, thats hate??
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Like is [i][b]like[/i][/b], hate is hate. Consider the dictionary for a basic meaning, such as here: [b]"n : the emotion of hate; a feeling of dislike so strong that it demands action."[/b] [url]http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=hate[/url] I understand Christians have this whole "love" thing going on. Since one definition of "hate" is "as opposed to love", why don't you try and define "love" for us, and then consider whether the rhetoric and actions of white supremacists and anti-semites would fall into the "love" category" or the "hate" category. WWJD?
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 7:37:34 AM EDT
[b]John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you[/b] According to the greek definition the word hate as used here means "detest"......... Should that be illegal Dscott?
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 7:44:02 AM EDT
Dscott, I went to your link, this is the noun definition there "n. Intense animosity or dislike; hatred. An object of detestation or hatred: My pet hate is tardiness." Where did you get yours???
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 7:50:11 AM EDT
OOOopps, I see it, bottom of the page. Note the source. Princeton?? 1997?? hate n : the emotion of hate; a feeling of dislike so strong that it demands action [syn: hatred] [ant: love] v : dislike intensely; feel antipathy or aversion towards; "I hate Mexican food"; "She detests politicians" [syn: detest] [ant: love] Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University Got something against websters? Or do you just wanna be politically correct?
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 7:55:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: OOOopps, I see it, bottom of the page. Note the source. Princeton?? 1997?? hate n : the emotion of hate; a feeling of dislike so strong that it demands action [syn: hatred] [ant: love] v : dislike intensely; feel antipathy or aversion towards; "I hate Mexican food"; "She detests politicians" [syn: detest] [ant: love] Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University Got something against websters? Or do you just wanna be politically correct?
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Ooh, slander! Whatever you do, don't call me a liberal. I don't think I could stand it! PC? No, I'm just lazy, and searched for dictionary.com cuz it's easy. I chose the definition I did becuase it's what's relevant here. Contrary to your implication, it's not ideology that is being opposed here, but the action it engenders. Narrow minded bigots can think what they want, but when they follow a course of action that includes violence based on that hate, I object. Perhaps you agree with the actions of these supremacists? And please define "love" for us, then...
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 8:00:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2002 8:01:22 AM EDT by liberty86]
Originally Posted By DScott:
Originally Posted By liberty86: OOOopps, I see it, bottom of the page. Note the source. Princeton?? 1997?? hate n : the emotion of hate; a feeling of dislike so strong that it demands action [syn: hatred] [ant: love] v : dislike intensely; feel antipathy or aversion towards; "I hate Mexican food"; "She detests politicians" [syn: detest] [ant: love] Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University Got something against websters? Or do you just wanna be politically correct?
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Ooh, slander! Whatever you do, don't call me a liberal. I don't think I could stand it! PC? No, I'm just lazy, and searched for dictionary.com cuz it's easy. I chose the definition I did becuase it's what's relevant here. Contrary to your implication, it's not ideology that is being opposed here, but the action it engenders. Narrow minded bigots can think what they want, but when they follow a course of action that includes violence based on that hate, I object.
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me too
Perhaps you agree with the actions of these supremacists? And please define "love" for us, then...
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Thats easy... John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life........
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 8:44:07 AM EDT
Why is "White Pride" considered hate? I understand that some racists use the concept of "White Pride" as a vector to spread their xenophobic, racist ideology. But is simply being proud of your heritage considered hate? Or is the whole concept of "White Pride" one of being proud of who you are and disliking those who are not like you? As for myself, I am proud and to be a white Irish Catholic American. That's who I am. Just as others should be proud of their heritage, be it black, asian or whatever.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 9:18:55 AM EDT
I've lost all respect for the Jews since this whole Israel/Palestine thing shifted into high gear. They're cruel and vicious, just like everyone else in the world.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 9:56:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: I've lost all respect for the Jews since this whole Israel/Palestine thing shifted into high gear. They're cruel and vicious, just like everyone else in the world.
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"the Jews"? A little sweeping, doncha think?
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 10:09:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MIerinMD: Why is "White Pride" considered hate?
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You answer your own question:
I understand that some racists use the concept of "White Pride" as a vector to spread their xenophobic, racist ideology.
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But is simply being proud of your heritage considered hate?
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Of course not.
Or is the whole concept of "White Pride" one of being proud of who you are and disliking those who are not like you?
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And acting violently towards them...
As for myself, I am proud and to be a white Irish Catholic American. That's who I am. Just as others should be proud of their heritage, be it black, asian or whatever.
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Cool!
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 10:27:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MIerinMD: Why is "White Pride" considered hate? I understand that some racists use the concept of "White Pride" as a vector to spread their xenophobic, racist ideology. But is simply being proud of your heritage considered hate?
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To divine the bullshiite factor in any supposedly well meaning activist group or event, I simply replace whatever ethnic, racial or religious group they're pimping for with the word "white." If, as soon as I say it, I can hear the Jesster Jacksons and Morris Dees of the world howling, I know I've hit on a high bullshiite factor. National Association for the Advancement of White People White Defense League Congressional White Caucus New White Unity Party White World Review Whiteenterprise.com Everythingwhite.com The National Society of White Engineers Starting to see a trend?
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 10:30:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott:
Originally Posted By trickshot: I've lost all respect for the Jews since this whole Israel/Palestine thing shifted into high gear. They're cruel and vicious, just like everyone else in the world.
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"the Jews"? A little sweeping, doncha think?
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Good question DScott, I think too often we confuse a people with a country. Jews live in most parts of the world and I believe we may be surprised how many look favorably on the Arabians plan for peace.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 2:47:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Originally Posted By MIerinMD: Why is "White Pride" considered hate? I understand that some racists use the concept of "White Pride" as a vector to spread their xenophobic, racist ideology. But is simply being proud of your heritage considered hate?
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To divine the bullshiite factor in any supposedly well meaning activist group or event, I simply replace whatever ethnic, racial or religious group they're pimping for with the word "white." If, as soon as I say it, I can hear the Jesster Jacksons and Morris Dees of the world howling, I know I've hit on a high bullshiite factor. National Association for the Advancement of White People White Defense League Congressional White Caucus New White Unity Party White World Review Whiteenterprise.com Everythingwhite.com The National Society of White Engineers Starting to see a trend?
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Anything in that context is going to sound stupid. Many of those organizations, though, exist as a form of self-help. Last I heard, that was something we tended to promote in this country. The common characteristic is the fact that they are Black. It's no different if people want to gather together based on other commonalities or shared interests. Think about the DAR, the DAV, the Irish American Cultural Institute, the IEEE, or the Republican Party. BTW, I don't know what your beef is with Morris Dees- I don't see him pimping for anybody, is certainly not profiting personally like Jesse has done, and doesn't act hypocritically or immorally. AFAIK, he is a good man with character who believes strongly in civil rights and is willing to do something about it. Geez, next you'll be taking on the Quakers for being un-American because they're pacifists... [;)]
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 2:55:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: BTW, I don't know what your beef is with Morris Dees- I don't see him pimping for anybody, is certainly not profiting personally like Jesse has done, and doesn't act hypocritically or immorally. AFAIK, he is a good man with character who believes strongly in civil rights and is willing to do something about it. Geez, next you'll be taking on the Quakers for being un-American because they're pacifists... [;)]
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Yep, don't take long for a liberal to drop their pants......
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 3:23:04 PM EDT
Meaning what?
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 3:24:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: Anything in that context is going to sound stupid.
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Why should it sound stupid? Some people are whiter than others and some are blacker than others. If they want to band together, why would only the white ones get shit on for it?
Many of those organizations, though, exist as a form of self-help. Last I heard, that was something we tended to promote in this country.
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Absolutely, but why should they be able to pull together to help each other when I would have mf'ers marching in the streets with torches if I tried to form any of the organizations listed above?
The common characteristic is the fact that they are Black. It's no different if people want to gather together based on other commonalities or shared interests. Think about the DAR, the DAV, the Irish American Cultural Institute, the IEEE, or the Republican Party.
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Are you really so naive to think that the Society of White Engineers would get the same kind of popular reception as the Society of Black Engineers? And not all of those organizations whose names I bastardized were black, thank you.
BTW, I don't know what your beef is with Morris Dees- I don't see him pimping for anybody, is certainly not profiting personally like Jesse has done, and doesn't act hypocritically or immorally. AFAIK, he is a good man with character who believes strongly in civil rights and is willing to do something about it.
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My only beef with Morris Dees is that he sees Nazis behind every tree...kinda like some folks on here, for that matter.
Geez, next you'll be taking on the Quakers for being un-American because they're pacifists... [;)]
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I wouldn't say the Quakers are un-American, but I do think pacifism is a cheap way out. Other people fight and die to keep them free. “War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.” --John Stuart Mill "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." --Edmund Burke "Resistance to sudden violence, for the preservation not only of my person, my limbs, and life, but of my property, is an indisputable right of nature which I have never surrendered to the public by the compact of society, and which perhaps, I could not surrender if I would." --John Adams, Boston Gazette, Sept. 5, 1763
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 3:37:42 PM EDT
Thank you Paolo for the update. I had never heard the views of David Duke or William Pierce before. After following the link you presented I am now armed with the pertinent facts concerning this new and growing menace. Shalom!
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 4:02:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Originally Posted By DScott: Anything in that context is going to sound stupid.
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Why should it sound stupid? Some people are whiter than others and some are blacker than others. If they want to band together, why would only the white ones get shit on for it?
Many of those organizations, though, exist as a form of self-help. Last I heard, that was something we tended to promote in this country.
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Absolutely, but why should they be able to pull together to help each other when I would have mf'ers marching in the streets with torches if I tried to form any of the organizations listed above?
The common characteristic is the fact that they are Black. It's no different if people want to gather together based on other commonalities or shared interests. Think about the DAR, the DAV, the Irish American Cultural Institute, the IEEE, or the Republican Party.
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Are you really so naive to think that the Society of White Engineers would get the same kind of popular reception as the Society of Black Engineers? And not all of those organizations whose names I bastardized were black, thank you.
BTW, I don't know what your beef is with Morris Dees- I don't see him pimping for anybody, is certainly not profiting personally like Jesse has done, and doesn't act hypocritically or immorally. AFAIK, he is a good man with character who believes strongly in civil rights and is willing to do something about it.
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My only beef with Morris Dees is that he sees Nazis behind every tree...kinda like some folks on here, for that matter. snipped for length...
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Bottom line, is that all those groups *I* mentioned are examples of what the majority culture does and "gets away with" because it is acceptable and normal for people to congegrate. We don't even question it. When minority groups do it, they draw more heat. Why is that? Most are self-help, boot-strapping organizations. Some get hijacked for selfish purposes by the Jesse Jackson's. Objections to "quotas" or "special treatment" or whatever are often based on a failure to acknowledge that life is *harder* for these people. It's a reality. That's not to say that people don't make their own contributions to their difficulties, but just to recognize that there are advantages in this country to being in the majority group and in the upper classes. Mentioning "White" anything is inflammatory (and you know it), because for many years it would have been basically redundant. To use that term now is to deliberately seek to piss someone off, right? For example, most engineers historically have been white, so to make that a distinction in the title of their professional organizations would have been unheard of. Black engineers formed their own organization presumably to help each other out. How else do they distinguish themselves as a group if that's their commonality? But of course you know all that...
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 4:34:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: Meaning what?
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Meaning just what it say's. What am I, a [:K] magnet? Dscott were you aware that this is a firearms site? Do you work for Morris Dees? I just did a 9 month search on you, you have never posted or responded to a post in the equipment exchange to buy or sell! Go [:K] some one else clown......
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 4:44:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2002 4:45:37 PM EDT by Imbroglio]
Does the Wiesenthal Center support gun control or the 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms? If they want the former and I don't like them for wanting to ban guns, does that put me on their "hate" list?
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 4:51:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: I just did a 9 month search on you, you have never posted or responded to a post in the equipment exchange to buy or sell! Go [:K] some one else clown......
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Does this guy have no life or what? Anyone who disagrees with him, he does a search for ALL THEIR POSTS! ROFL! What the hell does his lack of posts in equipment exchange have to do with this subject??
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 5:17:11 PM EDT
Imbrog, the answer is yes. They pretty much attack and slander anybody who dares not agree with them. Period. And they get away with it by branding anybody who disagrees an anti-semite. DScott, it does not suprise me you are from California. It shows when you start saying that people who bitch about quotas and special treatment don't get it. That it's just the reality, end of story. Well guess what? It isn't 1954 anymore. Nowadays minorities (especially blacks) have it pretty well. As a matter of fact you could say the deck is stacked for them. With inner city high school standards being dropped, Universities with minority enrollment quotas (often declining to admit more qualified white applicants), Affirmative Action Government Jobs, TONS of private and public scholarships for minorities, and the list could go on and on, your statement above sounds a bit ridiculous. And woe be unto those who dare say that quotas or special rights aren't doing what they were intended to do (and that sentiment is growing, even among blacks). Or for that matter anyone who dares question a minority at all on anything. They will immediately be branded a racist, and nobody wants to wear the dreaded scarlet R. Also, if you believe that Morris Dees isn't profiting off of his crusades, than you've got alot to learn about the real world out here.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 6:27:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2002 6:31:10 PM EDT by shooter69]
DScott: Civil rights used to be about people being denied the fundamental rights that they were entitled to. Not being able to vote or attend the same public schools. Now it means [b]anything they want it to[/b]. Such as inventing any new rights that strike their fancy (read Jesse Jackson Jr's new book). Changing the criteria (read: lessening the standards) for how banks make loans. Equating anything less than a proportionate racial balance in a profession or institution as overt racism. And believing that offensive, constitutionally protected free speech violates someones "civil rights," when in truth censoring it does. Thugs (who happen to be black) go on a violent rampage at a highschool and are expelled (to be transferred to a special school - they still have their right to a public education) just as whites have been under the same school's "zero tolerance" policy. Next thing Jesse Jack-off is there screaming his head off about their civil rights being violated. Gimme a break! (And yes, he is the preeminent civil rights leader of our time, whether anyone likes it or not). The fact that you dismiss him for the sake of arguement, all the while agreeing with all the little frankenstein programs he's rammed down our throats for thirty years is cute. In Washington D.C. they scream that their civil rights are being violated because D.C. is not a state. It was never intended to be by the founders, for obvious reasons as our capitol, and beyond the petty bickering of the state assemblies. It only became a "civil rights" issue when blacks moved there in such numbers as to become the majority. Did they know that when they moved there (mostly during the Roosevelt admin)? The rights of white washingtonians were not violated before and nobody is a victim today.
Objections to "quotas" or "special treatment" or whatever are often based on a failure to acknowledge that life is *harder* for these people. It's a reality. That's not to say that people don't make their own contributions to their difficulties, but just to recognize that there are advantages in this country to being in the majority group and in the upper classes.
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No, I'm happy to acknowledge any hardships people may face, but said objections are based on the recognition that "quotas" and "special treatment" [b]value[/b] people by their race, and not for the "content of their character." At U of M that means getting 20 points on the admissions criteria just for being black. Asian, white and other students have to be that much better academically to have the same shot. Again, this isn't a game, but people's lives we're talking about. People that [b]are not[/b] responsible for the positions, background or difficulties of others, no matter what you say. The net effect is to make race relations [u]worse[/u].
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 6:29:19 PM EDT
For example, most engineers historically have been white, so to make that a distinction in the title of their professional organizations would have been unheard of. Black engineers formed their own organization presumably to help each other out. How else do they distinguish themselves as a group if that's their commonality?
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If distinguishing their commonality is what it's all about my friend then the past forty years of public policy in this country has been a mistake. Now, if such groups are as necessary for networking as you make them out to be, then no one should be excluded from that opportunity. Under the constitution we are all equal. Either the concept is inherantly racist, or it's not, and such complaints are only sour grapes. You can pick the standard in this regard as far as I am concerned, I just want it to be equally enforced. Blacks are certainly not denied access to the broader organizations (that are not race specific) that you clearly view as "white." The United States was never intended to be a workers paradise, or classless society, with some equalization of income by race. The founders only said you have the right to pursue happiness, not have the government provide it for you. Make your way!
BTW, I don't know what your beef is with Morris Dees- I don't see him pimping for anybody, is certainly not profiting personally like Jesse has done, and doesn't act hypocritically or immorally. AFAIK, he is a good man with character who believes strongly in civil rights and is willing to do something about it.
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Then you don't know very much. He pimps for himself and pockets the $$. At least that's what people who have worked with him in the past say... [url]www.deeswatch.com/who.html[/url] As has been discussed before... [url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=49904[/url]
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 7:28:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By liberty86: I just did a 9 month search on you, you have never posted or responded to a post in the equipment exchange to buy or sell! Go [:K] some one else clown......
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Does this guy have no life or what? Anyone who disagrees with him, he does a search for ALL THEIR POSTS! ROFL! What the hell does his lack of posts in equipment exchange have to do with this subject??
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Rik, I know you've read this before, but didn't get the message. This is my reply to you EVERY time you post directed at me.... Hey Rik[:K]! Guess what!? I did a post search on you for the last 3 months. Wanna know what I found? EIGHT pages of posts! I only looked at 5 pages, but I got the picture. Out of 5 pages of posts, you posted in 8 topics having anything remotely to do with firearms! ONE post was on the equipment exchange, a sale item, it wasn't even yours, it was for a friend! Do me a favor[:K], don't address me any more on this board. I really don't consider anything I've seen you come up with to be very thought provoking. Just provoking. So[:K], go bug someone else....... (Edited to add..) I decided WTH, and checked pages 6,1 post,7,0 posts, 8,1 post None in equipment exchange. So[:K], it would appear you exist to throw stones and provoke folks.....
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 7:31:14 PM EDT
BTW Rik & Dscott, you both seem to have gotten $60 bucks worth of entertainment out of trolling here, why don't you become members and support the site instead of leeching off those that do........
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 7:33:23 PM EDT
shooter69, once again you have picked up the ball and run it in for a touchdown. Thank you, sir. [beer]
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 8:07:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: Hey Rik[:K]! Guess what!? I did a post search on you for the last 3 months. Wanna know what I found?
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That you have no life whatsoever and way too much free time?
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 8:10:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: BTW Rik & Dscott, you both seem to have gotten $60 bucks worth of entertainment out of trolling here, why don't you become members and support the site instead of leeching off those that do........
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I surely get $60 worth of entertainment out of your idiotic rantings. BTW, dickless, I have been posting here since about 1998...so why don't you pucker up and kiss my hairy white ass?
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 8:15:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By liberty86: BTW Rik & Dscott, you both seem to have gotten $60 bucks worth of entertainment out of trolling here, why don't you become members and support the site instead of leeching off those that do........
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I surely get $60 worth of entertainment out of your idiotic rantings. BTW, dickless, I have been posting here since about 1998...so why don't you pucker up and kiss my hairy white ass?
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Then why don't you contribute troll..... Here ya go again Riky sweetie..... Rik, I know you've read this before, but didn't get the message. This is my reply to you EVERY time you post directed at me.... Hey Rik[:K]! Guess what!? I did a post search on you for the last 3 months. Wanna know what I found? EIGHT pages of posts! I only looked at 5 pages, but I got the picture. Out of 5 pages of posts, you posted in 8 topics having anything remotely to do with firearms! ONE post was on the equipment exchange, a sale item, it wasn't even yours, it was for a friend! Do me a favor[:K], don't address me any more on this board. I really don't consider anything I've seen you come up with to be very thought provoking. Just provoking. So[:K], go bug someone else....... (Edited to add..) I decided WTH, and checked pages 6,1 post,7,0 posts, 8,1 post None in equipment exchange. So[:K], it would appear you exist to throw stones and provoke folks.....
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 8:22:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: Then why don't you contribute troll
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It can't be a very elite club...after all, they let you in. (I see you still don't know the definition of a troll BTW).
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 8:26:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 8:28:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By liberty86: Then why don't you contribute troll
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It can't be a very elite club...after all, they let you in. (I see you still don't know the definition of a troll BTW).
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It's not a club riky, it's called paying your own way.....but then I guess 13 year olds don't know much about that do they.....
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 8:34:31 PM EDT
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