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Posted: 2/28/2002 10:14:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2002 10:39:21 PM EDT by parshooter]
Effective 10-08-98 I canceled a car insurance policy with State Farm, after switching to Allstate on 10-6-98. State Farm informed the state of Florida that I had no insurance. Allstate failed to tell them that I did. I was moving about that time and never bothered to replace my license for the change of address. During a cruise at the first of this year I lost that license. I travel a lot but, since I had a State issued picture ID (ccw license) and my D.L.# was printed on my checks, hadn’t bothered yet to go get another license. Spent yesterday evening at a friend’s home - 3 hours away from my own. Left at 11:00pm for a 30 minute trip to my destination. Pull to a stop at a red light in my black, ’99 STS Cadillac, and notice a local cop right behind me. The tag on the car (issued 2 months ago, btw) is framed with “AR15.com ***Home of The Black Rifle”. Green light, ease off for a few blocks, switch lanes to hit the turnpike, he pulls in behind and lights me up. OH SHIITTT!! After pulling over we sit for several minutes before a second cruiser arrives. He asks for license and registration. Tell him I recently lost it, but here’s the number on my check, and here’s my picture ID. “Do you have any weapons with you?” “Yes, I have a Beretta in the arm rest, and a Colt under the seat.” I forget the exact sequence of the conversation but soon after I learn that my D.L. has been suspended since mid-’99 for failure to have insurance. He, ..They.., were pretty cool about the weapons and didn’t freak out. Seems like I’m out of the car when he tells me something to the effect of: [b]“I NOTICED YOUR PLATE FRAME AND RAN YOUR NUMBER TO SEE IF YOU WERE A GUN DEALER”.[/b] About this time he’s also telling me that since my license is suspended he must SEIZE my tag on the spot. And since I have no tag, my car will be impounded. “Nope, Can’t drive back to your friends home and remove it there.” ‘WELCUUME, …… TOO’OO THE MACHIIINE’ (pink floyd) End up calling my buddy to come get me. Before I can start cleaning out my car, one of them (with my cooperation) removes the guns and a box of bullets. He steps back to his car and jacks out the mags and chambers. “Are you a dealer?” “No, just an aficionado.” The Colt wasn’t chambered, and I remember him asking me something about ‘keeping one up the “Pipe”’. Asked me if it was a Mustang, ‘No, it’s a Government Model. .380’ “Other one’s a .22, right?” “No, It’s a .32. Tomcat.” I remove my suitcase, golf clubs, digital camera, coats, laptop, knives, and CD cases, stacking the pile out on the roadside. Get my paperwork, buddy has arrived. Cop walks over with my guns and bullets, I open my suitcase and he lays them inside.
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 10:18:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2002 10:37:08 PM EDT by parshooter]
I spent this ENTIRE DAY getting my car back. On the phone to DMV at 8:00am. Within 10 minutes of speaking with a clerk my license was UN-suspended. Calls back and forth to Allstate. Calls to the police station for guidance. Calls to the impound yard. ‘Where’s the tag?’ You need this, this and this to get that. And you need that, that and that to get your car. Next was 3 hours at DMV getting a replacement license ($18.00 – no gripe here about the cost-although they got the zip code wrong). Then the impound yard to retrieve my registration. Then the police department to be told to go get a new tag ($19.00) as the one I’d just been issued had been cut up. Over to the Tag office. “Empty everything on you into the tray and walk through this machine.” All this time wondering if one of the needed “this’s” would take a month to get here. Then back to the police department to get my cars release paperwork. Then to the impound yard to break it out ($130.00-CASH ONLY for impounds - NO CHECKS). All this sprinkled with calls from the wife: “I TOLD you to go get your license…….” ‘Yea, Yea,…. I know.’ The [b]PISSER[/b]: Since at least 1993, I have NEVER been without automobile insurance for a [b]SINGLE DAY[/b]. And damn, this has been a long one. When I got to the impound lot the tag was gone, but the AR15.com frame was there. And it still is.
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 10:20:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2002 10:30:04 PM EDT by parshooter]
Oh yea.., The ticket is still there to be fought too.
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 10:38:52 PM EDT
About hte same thing happened to my roomate here in FL also.. He swtiched insurance and DMV thougt he had non, impound the car, new tag, etc. What a pain.. I have wanted to put an NRA or ar15.com item on my car but it is not worth causing a break-in, getting pulled over, or getting my car keyed by some anti-guner.
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 11:05:45 PM EDT
Wow, surprised you were allowed to keep the firearms. My sister-in-law has had her car towed twice in the past ten years because once she didn't have her insurance card and another because it was unreadable (lipstick and other gunk smeared on it). Since then, she has started "playing with fire." She, not so brightly, has started keeping an old revolver in the glove compartment. That's legal in South Carolina as long as it remains [i]closed[/i], but the problem is she also keeps her registration and insurance card in the glove compartment. She started doing that, because one time she couldn't find them in her pocketbook and another time ruined the insurance card with make-up. Of course, she ended-up at an illegal random search (aka license check), and couldn't show the officer her papers. He gave her the choise of either opening the glove compartment and facing the weapons charge or having her car impounded for lack of registration and proof of insurance. She chose to take her chances with the weapons charge, because she knew from her previous two experiences the car tow and impound were going to be over $200. Well, according to state law you can be jailed up to one year(!) and fined up to $10,000 for opening the glove compartment or console with a loaded firearm. She ended-up spending almost $2,000 on a lawyer to get out with just a fine and no jail time. After she got the revolver back, she still carries it in the glove compartment w/ her papers. I'm afraid she's going to have to show her papers again sometime, and she'll get charged again. Jail time (for a second offense, it might happen) for a 70 year-old woman wouldn't be very pleasant.z
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 11:07:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2002 12:04:37 AM EDT by NYPatriot]
Further evidence IMHO, that it is generally a bad idea to advertise to the entire world that you are an aficionado of "evil" black rifles. I am not saying that one should be ashamed of their pro-gun leanings (far from it), but firearms related bumper stickers, license plate frames, etc.. can be seen by everyone, including those who do not support your views and who just may be fanatical enough to use the info against you... ..."Hello 911. I was just cut off by a black Cadillac, license plate ******, oh, and as he passed me, he pointed what I think was a gun at me! Please stop this mad man. Do it for the children!" An extreme case? Yes, but it is plausible in this day and age. Not so far fetched are the increased chances of getting pulled over, having your car broken into, and having your vehicle valdalized by some anti-gun zealot. I hope that I am not coming across as paranoid, but I firmly believe that most of one's habits, beliefs, and personal proclivities are on a need to know basis, and the whole damn world dosen't need to know that you or I own "assault rifles." Oh, and parshooter... you should listen to your wife a little more often. She sounds like a smart woman. [;)] Hope everything works out for you.
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 11:18:26 PM EDT
You are advertising the fact that you may have a gun in your vehicle, I'm sure thieves appreciate this also.
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 11:38:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Confederate: You are advertising the fact that you may have a gun in your vehicle, I'm sure thieves appreciate this also.
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I also have an AR15.com tag frame. I suppose the HK, Bushmaster, NRA and GOA stickers on my rear window probably advertise too. So far, no break-ins. Then again, I don't park my car in areas where those activities usually take place. Actually, I doubt many people even notice those thing except for other gun people. Your average citizen doesn't know what HK or Bushmaster means anyway. I've only had 1 comment about my stickers and it was from some guy in a drug store parking lot. "Hey, I noticed your HK sticker. What kind of HK do you have?" Kinda cool. He had a USP like me. USPC40 ------------------------------------------------- [b][blue]NRA Life Member[/blue][/b] - [url]www.nra.org[/url] [b][blue]GOA Life Member[/blue][/b] - [url]www.gunowners.org[/url] [b][blue]SAF Supporter[/blue][/b] - [url]www.saf.org[/url] [b][blue]SAS Supporter[/blue][/b] - [url]www.sas-aim.org[/url] [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/alabamaflag.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 12:05:06 AM EDT
The worst situation I ever got into was a couple years ago when I was 18. I purchased a nice Pro-Gun bumper sticker with a large picture of a Beretta M92 Pistol on it and the quote "Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it." As I usually carry a shotgun or carbine in my vehicle...This seemed like a good bumper sticker. So, a few months later I am driving down the road and pass a cop car. I get a couple blocks and the blue lights come on. I pull over. I notice 2 officers step out. One proceeds towards my window and the other moves into my blind spot. He appears to have his hand close to his holster. So, I keep my hands where they can see them. The officer says I was going 32 in a 30. But, he says that my plate expired a few days ago and, I supposedly failed to yeild the right of way at a 3-way stop. but, I was going straight and the other guy was turning. So, I had the right of way. So, I start explaining...and after I finish the officer asks me if I have any weapons or drugs in my vehicle to which I respond no. He questions it a little more and I explain that I am not carrying in my vehicle because I was on the way back from a class. Eventually, he writes me a warning and tells me to get my plates renewed and to watch my speed, etc... When I drove away I noticed a second cop car had pulled up behind the 1st one. Shit this officer actually called for backup becuase I had a pro-gun bumper sticker. What did he think that a criminal is going to braodcast the fact they have a gun.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 1:30:39 AM EDT
Wooo Parshooter. What a buntch of commy shit. I think they make more and more laws so they can have more ways to screew us out of money or rights, or just plain screew us.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 2:51:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2002 2:51:46 AM EDT by Ponyboy]
Originally Posted By Confederate: You are advertising the fact that you may have a gun in your vehicle, I'm sure thieves appreciate this also.
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If I'm a burgular and I just happen upon a car with an AR15.com license plate frame that would probably be the car that I'd avoid. I'd rather steal radios and cell phones and use the cash from them to buy a gun than risk getting shot trying to steal one. That's just me though......
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 4:25:03 AM EDT
So it sounds like your fighting a ticket for license suspended for not having insurance: This is pretty much dependent on how cool your court is, so here it goes: Talk to the court to see what they might accept as proof that you had insurance, and it was a mistake on DMV's part to suspend your driver's license. Don't wait until a few days before your scheduled court date: Call today. Look up the statute you were cited under: Some traffic statutes have allowances for such mistakes. Get a letter from All State (pronto) stating that you do have insurance, and have had insurance with them since the date you switched. Go back to DMV, talk with the clerk you spoke with initially, and see about getting a letter from them explaining when and why they un-suspended your driver's license. Get a certified copy of your driver's license: It should have the date suspended, and the re-instatement date, which should correlate with your new insurance date, and your re-instatement date. Driving while suspended in Arizona is not just a "civil" charge: It's a misdemeanor criminal traffic charge, so you might want to check that out as well. Good luck Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 5:30:02 AM EDT
Very cool of you to be looking out, AZCOP.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 5:34:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: Very cool of you to be looking out, AZCOP.
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MVD in Arizona does some really strange shit sometimes, so it would not surprise me that it also happens in Florida as well. The courts in my county are actually pretty cool with this kind of stuff, so I am just thinking in terms that parshooter's court will be as well: We will see. Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 5:42:51 AM EDT
Thanks AZCOP. Printing your comments out now. Trying to wrap this up today before leaving for home. Will respond to others later.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 5:51:11 AM EDT
So should I be scraping the [b]'Life Member NRA'[/b] decals off the rear bumbers of my Jeeps? [:D] Eric The(NotAChance!Let'EmStopMeEveryday!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 6:26:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 6:31:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 6:33:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 6:34:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 6:41:45 AM EDT
You don't understand garand...you could have been a (fill in the blank).......
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 9:14:48 AM EDT
That's interesting--Allstate got a friend of mine in trouble for the same thing. He switched his insurance to them and there was an 8-day lapse--BOOM--he gets a letter in the mail saying he must surrender his plate for 30 days because he didn't keep continuous insurance coverage. A bureaucratic boondoggle and now he must go to a hearing ($100 court fee) to clear up the matter. The system is scam, the system is a scam, the system is a scam. As far as cops and guns go, extreme paranoia is the norm nowadays. Just the fact that a cop can get a backup car to come out for a traffic stop says is just further evidence that yup, we do in fact live in a police state. And yup, it is getting worse. Next year they'll seize your car and not give it back at all. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?????
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 9:31:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: Further evidence IMHO, that it is generally a bad idea to advertise to the entire world that you are an aficionado of "evil" black rifles. I am not saying that one should be ashamed of their pro-gun leanings (far from it), but firearms related bumper stickers, license plate frames, etc.. can be seen by everyone, including those who do not support your views and who just may be fanatical enough to use the info against you... ..."Hello 911. I was just cut off by a black Cadillac, license plate ******, oh, and as he passed me, he pointed what I think was a gun at me! Please stop this mad man. Do it for the children!" An extreme case? Yes, but it is plausible in this day and age. Not so far fetched are the increased chances of getting pulled over, having your car broken into, and having your vehicle valdalized by some anti-gun zealot.
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OH Crap! So much for following your advice!?!?[devil][img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/Waverunner%2FAR15Car%2EJPG[/img]
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 9:31:11 AM EDT
A second squad coming out to a traffic stop isn't such a huge deal. It happens all the time, and the officers frequently aren't requesting the backup where I live. Cops are curious, sometimes bored, and the backup on a stop is just to see how things are going and to make sure that both of them go home. There's no police state issues, or hidden agendas going on. Cops are paranoid about getting shot, and last I checked traffic stops and suspicious person calls have taken over domestics as being the most dangerous for officers. Ok, so cops are paranoid because they want to go home today. On the other hand, all this conspiracy stuff really sometimes shows a paranoia on the other side of the spectrum. Having the second guy there sometimes helps speed stuff up that's going on. The second guy can talk to the guy getting stoppe and maybe explain some stuff, or whatever while the first one is doing what he has to do in his squad. Now if you start to have a polyester convention at yourlocation, then things could get out of hand..but a couple cars isn't a big deal.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 9:55:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2002 9:58:21 AM EDT by NYPatriot]
Waverunner, to each their own, but don't forget that all [b]you[/b] have to do in order to defuse a traffic stop is flash your badge. After that, it's a wink and a nod, and you are back on your way, no questions asked. All too often however, the rest of us are looked at as "perps in waiting" (especially gun owners), and I would rather not give a nervous or inexperienced officer anymore reason to be suspicious and inquisitive than he or she might already have.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 10:11:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: Waverunner, to each their own, but don't forget that all [b]you[/b] have to do in order to defuse a traffic stop is flash your badge. After that, it's a wink and a nod, and you are back on your way, no questions asked. All too often however, the rest of us are looked at as "perps in waiting" (especially gun owners), and I would rather not give a nervous or inexperienced officer anymore reason to be suspicious and inquisitive than he or she might already have.
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I hear what you're saying...not for nothing traffic stops ARE potentially very very dangerous so you're right about not wanting to make the cops anymore "shakey" than they might be. Also is it just me or do perps just favor POS gunz like "Ravens" and "Lorcins"?
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 11:26:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2002 11:57:51 AM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 11:51:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2002 11:52:15 AM EDT by cc48510]
Because Ravens and Lorcins are so damn cheap. Ravens and Lorcins are commonly sold in groups of 3 or 4 guns and the 3 - 4 guns are cheaper than 1 of any gun I own. Legitimate Lorcins run $30 - $100 depending on Caliber: [url]http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=3218475[/url] Legitimate Ravens run around $25 with 3 spare mags. in the original box: [url]http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=3238922[/url] Stolen Guns could probably be gotten even cheaper. I remember when I was a kid (late 80s) that a friend showed me his Dad's (His Dad Was A Cop) Pistol. It was in a Tea Box on top of the TV in the Den. Then, my friend commented that he could sell it to me if I wanted it. I told him to forget it and put it back. If I had wanted a (stolen) pistol it would have been as simple as giving my friend some money.
Originally Posted By Waverunner:
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: Waverunner, to each their own, but don't forget that all [b]you[/b] have to do in order to defuse a traffic stop is flash your badge. After that, it's a wink and a nod, and you are back on your way, no questions asked. All too often however, the rest of us are looked at as "perps in waiting" (especially gun owners), and I would rather not give a nervous or inexperienced officer anymore reason to be suspicious and inquisitive than he or she might already have.
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I hear what you're saying...not for nothing traffic stops ARE potentially very very dangerous so you're right about not wanting to make the cops anymore "shakey" than they might be. Also is it just me or do perps just favor POS gunz like "Ravens" and "Lorcins"?
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Link Posted: 3/1/2002 12:32:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2002 12:34:40 PM EDT by AlClenin]
Originally Posted By USPC40:
Originally Posted By Confederate: You are advertising the fact that you may have a gun in your vehicle, I'm sure thieves appreciate this also.
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I also have an AR15.com tag frame. I suppose the HK, Bushmaster, NRA and GOA stickers on my rear window probably advertise too. So far, no break-ins. Then again, I don't park my car in areas where those activities usually take place. Actually, I doubt many people even notice those thing except for other gun people. Your average citizen doesn't know what HK or Bushmaster means anyway. I've only had 1 comment about my stickers and it was from some guy in a drug store parking lot. "Hey, I noticed your HK sticker. What kind of HK do you have?" Kinda cool. He had a USP like me.
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My bumper sticker says "free men own guns". I've had one guy honk and give me a thumbs up on the interstate, I assume it was because of ths sticker. Another time some guy practically ran me off of the road honking and trying to flash his NRA card out of the passenger window at me. Pretty funny. I got in a small fender bender once, some old man sideswiped me. I pulled my car off to the side of the road (in a no parking spot zone) and went to a gas station across the street to call the cops. When I got outside one had stopped because of my parking job. He had already gone into my car, looked in the glove box and hit the trunk button and was just getting out of the car as I walked up. I assume he was looking for a gun. Good thing I don't break that law. I was pretty pissed, but figured I'd rather not get a hard time from him so I didn't bitch much. He said he was "trying to find out who owned the car" (I though that is what the little plate on the back is for jerk) and told me that I "park like an idiot".
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 1:54:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZCOP: MVD in Arizona does some really strange shit sometimes...
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That might explain a lot. I thought the "MVD" went away with the fall of Communism in Russia. Guess they just moved ops to Arizona. Better weather at least. [;D]
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 2:05:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HBAR16:
Originally Posted By AZCOP: MVD in Arizona does some really strange shit sometimes...
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That might explain a lot. I thought the "MVD" went away with the fall of Communism in Russia. Guess they just moved ops to Arizona. Better weather at least. [;D]
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I think in every other state, it's called DMV Division of Motor Vehicles Here, someone decided to call it Motor Vehicle Division: Probally to justify in their own mind the reaming that everyone gets in this state when they get, or renew their tags. I should have just moved back to Texas: No state income tax, and 35 dollar tags. Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 9:03:33 AM EDT
Well... Got a letter faxed down from Allstate indicating insurance had been in place since before the trigger date for the suspension. Went to the circuit court and obtained my driving history - the suspension wasn't listed on it. Would have had to pay $134 for the type of search that 'might' would include it. The clerk couldn't act on the evidence, only a judge. (One of the ladies behind the counter said the same thing happened to her.) Next to the DA's office. Presented everything and the lady took copies of it. When the ticket comes through they may be able to 'No Bill' it, which essentially cancels the ticket and keeps me from a return trip down there to see the judge. Anyway, some of you have posted compelling arguments as to why it's not a good idea to place decals, etc on vehicles. As for as them being an invitation to theives, I prefer to think of them as deterrents. Remember when tourists in Miami wanted NRA caps because of so many jackings of rental cars? For now, the plate frame will stay on. I'm proud to be a member of the 'gun culture' and don't mind this (somewhat) discrete means of showing it.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 10:33:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2002 10:38:06 AM EDT by ar15patrol]
I don't advertise anything on my vehicles. No stickers, plate frames no nuthin. I don't even let the dealer put his dealer name on the car. Why ask for trouble from vandals and thieves? Having a second car pull over doesn't mean the officer called for backup. I work in a multi jurisdiction county and we always stop by at traffic stops if we're in the vicinity. I also received a letter stating that my registration was going to be suspended for insurance lapse. My insurance agent switched companies when my I renewed my policy and a letter went out to the DMV from the old company. The new company did not notify the DMV. Always maintain your correct address with the DMV because they won't forward mail to a new address. Follow-up promptly with all such notices if you do get one. If your license or reg is ever suspended for any reason [b]ALWAYS keep ALL reinstatement papers with you in the vehicle.[/b] And to all of you who think that flashing your badge will get you out of a ticket haven't run into Waverunner's buddies in HW1[:D]
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