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Posted: 2/27/2002 9:35:59 PM EDT
Kimber apparently decided to stop paying the annual [i]mordida[/i] (Mexican slang for a bribe made to a government official) to the state to keep two of their models on the "not unsafe" handgun list per SB15. Therefore, they can no longer be sold in the state unless they go through the drop test and "reliability" process (destroying at least 6 Kimbers in the process) and pay a big [i]mordida[/i] to get back on the list. Assuming the law permits Kimber to recertify the guns at all... [url]http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/removed.pdf[/url] The cute thing about this process is that the state can now blame the manufacturers for implementing their de facto gun ban because they can point to the fact that the manufacturer chose not to pay. So it's not the government's fault that there are no guns available to sell here. How perfectly Machiavellian. Wonder what happens if the state starts "losing" the [i]mordida[/i] checks from other suppliers?
Link Posted: 2/27/2002 11:37:35 PM EDT
No great loss as the polymer Kimbers have their share of problems. I have two Kimbers and they are both my favorite pistols. Of course buying a pistol after the first of the year is going to be such a pain in the ass I am going to buy all the ones I want before the end of the year anyhow. Now I just need to find the money. [;)]
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 2:08:03 AM EDT
No kidding. I picked up a Springfield "Loaded" Parkerized 1911 today, and between now and the end of the year I'll probably pick up a Wilson Combat and maybe a Sig or two.
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 7:16:07 AM EDT
Oh well. My next 1911 will be the Tannery one I'm working on. Getting the slide and frame to fit is taking a lot more time than I thought, but it's coming out tighter than both my Springfield Armory and my friend's Norinco. Maybe this is a question for the Legal forum - Is it now illegal for a gun manufacturer (or wannabe manufacturer) to build a one-off prototype of a new design in Californistan?
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 8:24:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By California_Kid: Maybe this is a question for the Legal forum - Is it now illegal for a gun manufacturer (or wannabe manufacturer) to build a one-off prototype of a new design in Californistan?
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Not being a Caliban legal expert, but I'm assuming the tests are for the sale of guns in Calif. A manufacturer can produce new gun prototypes but just can't sell the prototype within the state.
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 8:41:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2002 8:42:35 AM EDT by California_Kid]
Originally Posted By Chaingun: ... Not being a Caliban legal expert, but I'm assuming the tests are for the sale of guns in Calif. A manufacturer can produce new gun prototypes but just can't sell the prototype within the state.
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I agree with you in that the INTENT of AB-15 was to stop manufacturing of so-called "unsafe" handguns - It was aimed at putting out of business the infamous "Ring O' Fire" companies (Davis, Raven, Lorcin, Jennings...) - Which it totally failed to do. However, if you read the text of the law it doesn't say anything about the intent or disposition of the gun. A strict interpretation would IMHO (IANAL) mean that no new designs can be built in the state at all. A liberal interpretation (the one I prefer) says the law doesn't affect invention or innovation, OR ONE-OFF NOT-FOR-SALE HOMEBUILT PISTOLS OF ANY TYPE (because you can always claim you are building a prototype). Whadda y'all think?
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 12:50:15 PM EDT
My personal take on this issue of handguns in California is this. If an individual who can legally own a firearm (handgun specifically for this post) builds his/her own from an 80% or less starting point, it's legal. This reason I believe this is due to the use of the term, "manufacture". If applied to other items that people can build at home that are also being made by companies for commercial sale, the term manufacture seems to apply just to commercial firms and not to individual citizens (who are not building for purposes of selling the item).
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 1:36:42 PM EDT
Ah, I like that. I didn't manufacture this pistol, I [i]crafted[/i] it. Or I [i]whittled[/i] it (for any fellow A-Team fans out there).
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 2:52:11 PM EDT
damn u mean u can still own those evil 1911's in caliban territory sorry couldnt resist
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 3:16:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2002 3:18:59 PM EDT by sulaco]
They may have taken it off the list – however you can still legally buy and own those guns. In my efforts to buy a CZ75 I found one in NIB 1988 CZ75 in Texas, I was advised by my dealer that if I [b]REALLY[/b] wanted the gun I could have drove out there and buy it and bring it back with me. After careful evaluation of AB-15 it would not prohibit you from buying a used pistol that was not on the list or bring in a pistol for your own use that was not on the list. Although I wanted the CZ75 I had to pass up the offer, couldn’t afford the trip out there to picket up. However I did buy a 1991 CZ85, which are still not on the list. Just had to drive a total of 400 miles to pick it up <2 200mile trips>. Like they say, “If you set your mind to it, you can accomplish anything.” [:)]
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 4:19:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mattja: No kidding. I picked up a Springfield "Loaded" Parkerized 1911 today, and between now and the end of the year I'll probably pick up a Wilson Combat and maybe a Sig or two.
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Matt, did you finally get a job? OK, no more excuses for not coming out and shooting with us. [:D]
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 6:54:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 7:13:04 PM EDT
What i dont understand is why you guys still live in Ca.............. Bluemax
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 8:02:19 PM EDT
If I was a gun manufacturer I would not even think about going to California. I have no stomach for bribing governments or individuals in government or contributing to their campains. Most of the gun ads I see will not sell to anyone in California, Maryland, New jersey. And for good reason. Their Laws and the governments REEK of corruption, graft and ignorance and arogance. [soapbox] The intent of AB-10 is to restrict the freedom of choice in firearms. The unintended consequence is that now these same companies of the "ring of fire" passed the tests of the draconian law known as AB-10. Since the introduction of AB-2222 they are now after 50 Cal rifles, which have not been used in any crimes in California.(that I am aware of) Add to this the PRO-criminal stance that California has adopted, by restricting the lawful use of self defense.( no concealed carry in 90% iof the state) The reckless disregard of human safety by banning affordable firearms. The closing of perfectly safe outdoor ranges for the megerist of excuses. The Govenor's blatant need to raise taxes $17.5 billion in order to fund his many fiscal screwups. The Democratic Controled assembly submits a bill that makes it so much more difficult for the average person to buy a firearm and this govenor signs it. He most certainly is not a friend of many gun owners adn indeed is not a friend of anybody that he hasn't paid off in form or another. (in other words if you didn't tie a bone around his neck the dog wouldn't play with him) If you cannot elect a govenor and a a new assembly, then it's time to turn out the lights and stick a fork in it cause it's done. This is not even bringing up Locklear( thats another whole story) IN short, the schools are not educating, the government hates it people, and wants to bleed tax payers more cause now they have to fund all the give away programs with money from people who actually make some money. No wonder I have no intention of moving to California. (besides 3 of my rifles are now illegal) It will sink in it's own mire. I would think it's time to clean house in California and the election is near, unfortunately you have only meger prospects to choose from and I doubt they are up to the challange. The real question is how many of you who are effected are actually working for something better. By the looks of it -- not enough. _____________________________________________________________________________ Thump a Democrat -- they deserve it! [stick]
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