That about covers it from how I see it.  But I'm not a politician or an anti-gunner so my view is a little skewed.

Law enforcement supports the PPA!

[url]http://www.wisconsinconcealedcarry.com/html/03_01_02-law-enforcement.html[/url]

cont'd



This is outstanding news!  This is what a lot of legislators have been hanging their hat on when they don't support the PPA.

I'm sure between myself, Muad and Dolo we'll let you know what happens at the rally tomorrow.

Speaking of which, [b]Muad and Dolo[/b] -- you want to meet up at around 11:30 or so on the south side of the Capitol (intersection with Martin Luther King, Jr., Blvd.)?  I figure it probably won't be very crowded.  Or we could just call each other around that time and meet on either the NW or NE corners, which should be a half a block away from the action.  That might be the best bet.  I'm free from probably about 11:00 a.m. on.

I have the sneaking suspicion that we're going to flood the place with people tomorrow!!

EDITED to add that I also changed the title of this thread to better reflect where the PPA is at.  We'll know where it's going in 10 days, so we may as well keep this thread alive with all the resources, news alerts, etc.

Very good article!

11:30 or so sounds good.  It might be closer to 11:45 before I can get there.  I've got your phone number and I'll call when I get close.  

I wish I had a video camera.

11:30 sounds good to me.

Also, FWIW, my father's Senator is Breske (on the "undecided" list).  He just sent Breske a letter to him outlining the support Wisconsin FOP and the LEAA are showing for the PPA.  That's a great article.  

If you're in WI you should be in your car or walking to the capitol right now.

Senator Zien duked it out again this a.m. on Sly's talk show (Sly's a huge PPA supporter).  He was debating with a WAVE (WI Anti Violence Effort) spokesman.  I really think that the anti-PPA people are on the ropes.  Their best argument, when you counter all their statistics, is "it's not common sense."  Wonder if it would be "common sense" in a mall parking lot some dark night when you're surrounded by thugs....

Incidentally, I had an extra 20 minutes to listen to the radio this a.m. on the way into work.  It took me 30+ minutes to travel the 4 miles into work.  Normally it takes 7-10.  The traffic was 4X's the normal volume.  Don't suppose it was all the PPA supporters driving in, do ya?  [;)]  Actually, I think there are still high school basketball tournaments here, but I'm really anxious to see how many pro-PPA people show up.

I'll post a report around 2:00 p.m. or so.

Just got back from the PPA rally.  My feet are still numb!  It was cold with some snow.

BIG NEWS:  John Lott will be testifying this Saturday at the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing.  If I didn't have family plans, I'd go just to see him.  Get there if you can.

The turnout must've been a couple hundred poeple on the West steps to the capitol.  Three police chiefs were there in support as well as Ken Blanchard ([url]www.blackmanwithagun.net[/url]).

I'll post more later (as I'm sure will Dolo and Muad), but ladies and gentlemen, I think this sucker just might PASS!!

WooHooooo!!  [:D]

It was also mentioned that Governor McCallum is on our side, so once we're through with the Senate, we're almost there!!

Sen. Wirch IIRC is the swing vote in the Senate Judiciary committee.  Write him even if you're not in his district due to his representing all of us on the Judiciary Committee.

EDITED to fix above link and add:

I have more time -- my 1:00 is late.  So, there were 4 of us AR15.com'ers there: me, Muad, Dolo and his friend.  We met up at a fast food restaurant across from the capitol where we could see the North steps, where the rally was suppose to take place.  At about 10 minutes to 12:00, when we headed over, there was a small group of 10-20 people at the site.  I was hoping that we weren't going to be disappointed in the turn out, but people kept filtering in until there was 50 plus.  I saw some protestors with dollar signs on banners and thought they were for us -- turns out they were protesting the Crandon mine by the East steps.

We waited until 12:10 or so and were told that the power for the outdoor speakers was out.  They moved us to the West steps.  When we got there, there were around 100 people (my best guesstimate) already on the steps.  I figure the total crowd was probably around 200 or so.  What do you think Muad and Dolo?

Once on the steps, I wasn't able to see to the bottom of the multi-tiered steps, so I'm sure I didn't see everyone.  There were no protesters there, or at least none that I saw.

It was good to meet Muad.  I met Dolo and his friend last summer at an IDPA classifier.  I also got to meet Dick Baker, shake his hand and thank him.  I also got to thank Senator Zien on my way out.  Jim Fendry spoke, as well as our regional NRA rep (I'm still cold -- help me with the name guys).

The best line, IMHO (and this is a paraphrase):

"I've heard the phrase 'if it saves just one life, it's worth it' batted around this building a lot in support of legislation.  Well..."

I'm sure you can imagine the rest!  [:D]  Pass the PPA -- do it for the children!

Gotta run for now.

First off, it was damned good to meet you three in person.  I've finally got some faces to put with the names. [:)]

I was a little worried at first.  Like Corey, I didn't realize that so many people had been congregating on the other corner of the building.  I'd place the crowd, without the speakers and their entourage, at a couple of hundred.  I tried to stand on the stairs for a better view of the crowd at one point but I'm pretty sure the crowd had grown by the end.

Most of the speakers were pretty good.  I don't remember her name (I'm horrible with names) but there was a lady who represented a womans group (again with the names) who got up to the mike with tears in her eyes and spoke about the need for women to be able to protect themselves from violent assaults and rapes.  We need more people like her to tug at the heartstrings of the Senate and the voters.

One of the speakers said that if you haven't written at least 10 letters you haven't been writing enough.  I was thinking to myself, "Well I've written about 9 times that amount!" when he said that anyone who had written more than 10 needs to write at least 20 more.  I'll be writing letters this week. [:)]  They introduced one guy who managed to get thousands of letters sent from various people...impressive.

Telling us that Nuge almost came was a major letdown!  They might as well have not said anything, I would have felt better.

I left feeling really pumped up and positive about it, but now that I've had a little time to think I noticed more hesitation in the speakers than I would have liked.  There was too much, "IF" and "should it pass".  I think the speakers should have been more demanding...civil but firm [;)] but they got the point across.

There were a few television cameras on the crowd and the speakers.  I saw a couple of guys being interviewed.  Of course it wasn't one of the guys wearing a suit and tie, looking like he knew what he was talking about.  It was the guy wearing the zebra striped jacket!  That irritated the crap out of me.  Typical media trick, interview the dumbest looking dirtball you can find.  As it turns out though, the guy was representing Nuge!  I don't know what he said, but I'm hoping it was intelligent.  I plan on watching the news tonight to try and see my ugly face.

I liked Senator Ziens speach about citizen soldiers.  He gave a rousing talk about how guns allowed us to take our freedom and have allowed us to keep it.  All the while he had people holding a "Don't tread on me!" flag behind him (rattlesnake).  That's exactly how I feel, but I seem to get the feeling that this kind of talk really worries the liberals.  "Don't try to take away my freedom or I'll fight you to the death" scares the shit out of the people who think that we're all safe because the government is here to protect us.  I'll stop before I really get into a rant.

*damn character limit*


I wish that they had Dick Baker speak.  He knows a hell of a lot and will talk with you one-to-one for as long as you like, if you keep asking questions.  They introduced and thanked him though.  

Ken Blanchard was a good speaker but I think he was a little thrown off by the amplifier problems.  I'd like to sit and talk with him and would have tracked him down if I didn't have to run to class.  I'll be checking out his website though.

Overall I was impressed.  I would have liked to see about 10,000 more people there but I heard a lot of guys say that it was the biggest political rally they'd seen.  It was the biggest political rally I've been at, but it was also the first.  I've never been this politically active for anything.  It felt pretty good standing on those steps cheering and hollering for what I believe in.  Now I hope that all my efforts come to fruit.  

Ditto.  Well said.

BTW, who said it's the biggest political rally they've seen?  I have to admit back when I was eating lunch on State Street more, I saw a ton of political rallies on the steps of the capitol and they all looked pretty meek.  You know, anywhere up to 40 people.  Not the cheering crowd I saw today.  So, whoever said it, I'd be inclined to believe we did pretty well today.

I think Zien said that.

Anyway, it was a very cool rally.  From the beginning with everybody singing the National Anthem (I thought that was kinda special), to the part where those three chiefs of police walked through the crowd and EVERYBODY was thanking them and patting them on the back.  [b]All in all I think we did a pretty good job.[/b]

What about the NUGE!  For you that weren't there, Ted Nugent was almost there but had to back out at the last minute - how fricken cool would that have been?

Afterwards, I got a chance to shake the hand of Kenneth V.F. Blanchard.  I bought a copy of his book [u]Black Man With a Gun[/u] and he signed it for me.  Basically, its a primer about buying a handgun for self-defense interjected with a heavy dose on the racist roots of gun control.  He seemed like a cool dude.

I visited the following Senators offices afterward:
Rosenweig(R) - Peggy couldn't take 5 minutes to talk to her constituent (me), but her Legislative aide took a message for me and told me that despite the fact I've never received a reply to my written queries on her stance on SB357, she'll get back to me.  Her aide did say that the Senator was waiting to contact the head LEOs in our district before she committed either way on the issue.

Grobschmidt(D) - Not in.  His aide said that he hasn't made up his mind on SB357 either.

Wirch(D) - Ditto

Breske(R) - my Dad's Senator.  By far, out of all the senate offices I visited, he had the hottest looking aides working for him.  He wasn't in either, but as me and my friend were walking out of his office snickering about what a dirty old man he was, he came right around the corner headed for his office.  I said: "Excuse me Senator Breske, my name is Dolomite and my father, one of your constituents that lives up in Mountain, just could not attend this afternoons' rally as much as he would've liked to.  I do know though that he is curious about how you intend to vote on SB357, the citizen's concealed carry bill."  
He looked at me and said: "Unknown."

Honestly, after each visit at the above Senators offices, I walked out with a bad taste in my mouth, like I was pestering them.  I have zero faith that any of the 4 mentioned above would vote in favor of this bill.  In fact one of the aides said that she didn't even think that it'd get to the floor for a vote.  I hope she was just talking out of her ass.  I could be mistaken but they all came off as a little arrogant - nonetheless I was disappointed overall.

That's about it.

The thing is, 99.99% of the voters NEVER try to write or visit their representatives so they haven't the slightest idea of what jerks the Senators really are.  Therefore, these turds keep getting voted into office because of how they act and look when they're on  television for 15 minutes a year.  

I wish more people were politically active.

Where does State Senator Wirch stand on SB-357?

(OK.  You folks down in Kenosha get ready to endure that sick churning in your stomachs - just remember its your own fault.)

My co-worker mentioned that Sen. Wirch goes to same gym he does down in Kenosha and that he sees him all the time.  I asked him to find out what Wirch's stance on SB-357 was and he agreed to do it.  Wirch initially told him that he was [b]waiting for input from his local enforcement before he made a decision which way he was going to stand on the issue of concealed carry[/b].

Let me take a brief aside from this story and say that I'm getting a little sick and tired of hearing/reading this from my elected officials.  It usually means that they're just going to vote against CCW.  It could also mean that there is a lot of law enforcement out there in favor of this bill that are either too lazy or too afraid to write their legislators - I'm sick and tired of them too.

Anyway, my friend then asked Wirch what if he knew what the process was for obtaining a CCW under this proposed bill.  He didn't. Which indicates that he's never even bothered looking at it.  Typical of someone that's already got their mind made up because after my friend pressured him more [b]Wirch came right out and said that not only would he vote against SB-357, he felt it didn't have a chance in hell in the Senate[/b].  

Wirch said something along the lines that Wisconsin's gun laws were already very generous.  He said that you can't take even a small penknife on an airplane, but if you're in a car and you drive into Wisconsin that you can then have a pistol in your glove compartment.  

THIS IDIOT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A RUDIMENTARY GRASP ON BASIC FIREARMS LAW IN HIS OWN STATE.  I would be ashamed to live in his district.

This morning on Sly's program he had Ted Nugent on the phone.  Apparently Nugent was here at some point yesterday, although that was unclear.

Sly said that in his hob-knobbing yesterday after the rally, he got reliable word that a Senator that was neither for or against the bill thought that at the very least it should come to the floor for a vote.  Sly thought that if it comes to the floor of the Senate for a vote, it will pass.  Keep in mind that Sly is a radio jock, but has been in this community for many years.  He is a democrat who supports the RKBA and has connections inside the capitol.  I believe that this is just his prediction based on more information than we have.  So, with that caveat....

I'll see if Dick Baker has heard anything new since the rally.

Anyone going to see John Lott?

Dick Baker believes that there is a lot of pressure from various groups, including the NRA, on Senator Gary George, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, to let the committee vote on the PPA.  It would then be able to be brought to the floor of the Senate.

If there were ever a time to write letters, now it is.  Phone calls are probably better, or faxed letters due to the time delay.

We will know what happens here by March 14, 2002.

I did a google search to try and find some media coverage from yesterday's rally.  Seems like a well attended RKBA/PPA rally doesn't get much air or print time.  I wonder why I'm not surprised....

I ran across a short update from Ted Nugent's southern WI "director and friend," Jamz Hewitt.  [url]www.tednugent.com[/url]  I wonder if he was the guy wearing the zebra striped jacket getting interviewed by the TV reporter.  I think he had at least one, maybe more, kids there as well.

Anyone run across any TV or newspaper coverage of the rally?

Oh, and Dick Baker guessed that the crowd was over 300.

There was a small blurb on the local Fox 9pm news... a pan of the crowd (I didn't see us) and a portion of Sen. Ziens speach was shown.

The two other local news programs at 10pm that I was flipping between had very short blurbs.  They basically said that the PPA got a "major boost today as hundreds gathered at the capital building".  Again with the pan & scan (I saw part of my jacket in one!)  Fendry gave a really good talk on one of the broadcasts.  It looked like an interview from inside the building.

All of them sounded fairly impartial, which surprised me a little bit.  My wife said it sounded like a big rally.

I haven't read the local paper, but the damned student newspaper had a big-ass article about the "close to 100 people" who showed up protesting cyanide use in Wisconsin mining operations.  No mention of the 300 that were supporting a bill that is ACTIVE!  I'm writing a letter to the editor this afternoon.



The news didn't say how many, just "hundreds".  300 sounds good.  I realized this morning that we should have been passing around a signature sheet...oh well.

Dude, if I lived in Kenosha I'd write a long letter explaining to him that he needs to educate himself on the issue before coming to a decision.  What a jackass.  

Did you buddy inform him that concealing a pistol in you glovebox is illegal but leaving it on the dash (unloaded and in view from 3 sides of the vehicle) is perfectly legal?  It probably wouldn't make a difference anyway.

Speaking of which, do any of you know where I can find a website with the fireams ordinances in Madison?  I know that the city got "reprimanded" by the state when they passed that "no hanguns within the city" ordinance not long after the right to keep and bear was added to the State constitution.  I've checked with the city police, the sheriff and online.  I can't find a compilation of Madison gun laws anywhere.  I'm probably just looking in the wrong spots.

As you can see, I've been working on this all lunch hour.

I called these senators offices and got the following response:

[b]Senator Fred Risser, 608-266-1627:[/b]
When asked about the Senator's position, I was told that he does not support the PPA.  I asked why and was told “He thinks it is bad public policy.”  I asked if he has looked at the statistics from the 33 other states that prove concealed carry work and was told that the aide was “sure he had some of that in his folder.”  She said that his position is not open for discussion and that he will not consider supporting it.  I was very disappointed at the lack of a willingness to consider my opinion as well as the “bad public policy” position.

[b]Senator Robert Wirch, 608-267-8979, the “swing vote” in the Senate Judiciary Committee:[/b]
The person answering the phone put me through to Peter.  I said that although I did’t live in the Senator’s district, I was calling due to his position on the Judiciary Committee.  I asked what Sen. Wirch’s position was on the PPA and was told he’s “undecided.”  Peter wasn’t going to offer a lean one way or the other.  I asked if he would be at the Chippewa Falls hearing for Professor John Lott’s testimony.  I had to explain to Peter Prof. Lott’s significance to this issue.  Peter said that though Sen. Wirch would not be at the hearing, he would get a copy of Prof. Lott’s testimony.  I urged him to convey my support of the PPA and asked that the senator support it as well.

[b]Senator Gary George, 608-266-2500, head of the Judiciary Committee:[/b]
I starting by asking the aide to express my thanks to the Senator for holding a public hearing on the PPA as it deserved open debate and consideration.  When asked about Sen. George’s position on the PPA, I was told that the senator does not make public his position on bills (I doubt the consistency which this policy is applied…) until he actually votes on the issue.  I asked that the senator remain open to supporting the PPA and in fact urged him to do so.  I also asked that the senator support moving the PPA to a vote on the floor of the senate.  In closing, I again expressed my thanks to the senator for the public hearing.  Like Senator Gundersen said yesterday, being nice is the best way to win supporters.  [:)]

I urge all WI residents to call Senator George and Senator Wirch -- they represent all of us on the Judiciary Committee, and should give our opinions consideration.

Muad:

This is a forfeiture violation (like a speeding ticket) for improper transport of a firearm.  There is no provision for “open carry” of firearms in vehicles.  In WI they must be cased and unloaded to comply with this law – I don’t know the statute number off the top of my head, but can look for it later.  Hunters get nailed with this all the time when they throw their rifle in their truck after a hunt.  To avoid a CCW charge, sec. 941.23, Stats., you should put that cased and unloaded firearm in an inaccessible location of your vehicle, such as a trunk or the covered rear cargo area of an SUV.



There was never a total handgun ban in the city.  In the early ‘90’s (I moved here in 1992), there was a ban on hollowpoint ammunition and handguns with barrels less than 3.25” IIRC (I might be off on the number, but it was in the 3” range).  The state preemption law struck down those ordinances.  Even if arrested for that, it was only an ordinance violation.  Still sucked, and there may have been a provision to seize the firearm or ammunition.

Currently, I believe that the only regulations concern sale of handguns in city limits (prohibited, which is why Rusk is just over the city line) and discharging firearms in city limits (prohibited).  EDITED to add that there are probably more out there that I'm not aware of.  If you want to look at all of the city’s ordinances, hit [url]www.municode.com[/url] and follow the links to [url]http://fws.municode.com/CGI-BIN/om_isapi.dll?infobase=50000.NFO&softpage=newviewingoptions[/url] (if that link worked).  In looking through my incomplete file on Madison’s ordinances, I see an index that lists such doozies as “Madison Established as a Nuclear Free Zone” (Cr. By Ord. 8169, 12/2/83) and “Playing Golf on School Property Prohibited” (Cr. By Ord. 4665, 8/5/74).

Madison – home of the perpetually offended and politically correct.  [B)]

Please not this new time for the hearing.  I might be able to go.  We'll see what happens with my schedule.

Thanks Corey.

Not that I've ever been dumb enough to drive around with a fun (oops I mean gun) on my dash.  

I guess that's why you're the lawyer and I'm studying biology [:)]

What about open carry when not in a vehicle?

Yes, you do.

-Maddog50
Badger by birth, Texan by choice

Did anybody get to hear the whole radio program on WPR today?  I got in the car about 5 minutes before the end and didn't get to call in or hear much.  I think that they had a woman from the Wisconsin Anti-Violence something or other.  

During the time that I listened, three Pro-PPA people called in including a woman who had been raped.  All that the guest could come up with was "Do we really want to teach our children that solving violence with guns is the only solution?"  SOMETIMES IT IS the only solution!  That's the whole point.  

What the hell are you going to do?  


Anyway, what I heard was callers expressing their desire for the PPA to pass and the guest and host trying to use circular reasoning to dismiss their arguements.  Typical WPR.

On page 125 from the book [u]Guns Don't Die: People Do[/u] -
"The best defense is to put up no defense- give them what they want."
The author, the late Pete Shields, was also a former President of Handgun Control, Inc.

(his theory was disproved 9/11/2001 by the way)

PS: You can thank the Joyce Foundation for funding both WPR and WAVE.

Wisconsin has what, the eighth highest taxes of all states? What do we get for it? More fucking dirt bags asking for quarters at the bus stop. I had some guy ask me to remove the password on "his" cell phone today. I suppose this would go away if I'd get out of milwaukee, but the taxes are still high all over the state.

Maybe I'll move to south dakota. Lowest state taxes, not bad gun laws if I remember right, and I'll be able to help vote douchle out of office. (Although here I could vote against feingold, which is pretty good.)

I'd vote for TX, AZ, or NV.  Possibly AL, if you can stand it.[:D]  

The only problem with that is that I can't stand warm weather. I like the cold. Well, I've got three years to decide. I'm going to work where I'm at now until I pay down my student loans (damn you wells fargo) then it's moving time. Too bad it took me until well after I got into student loan debt to realize that I could live happily off of $1500 a month.

In that case I'd go for VT.  Butt-a$$ cold, and somewhat pro-gun.  Carry anything anywhere.  There are a lot of lefties out there, though.  But I can't imagine it's much worse than WI.

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Thanks to everyone following and helping out.