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Posted: 2/26/2002 1:19:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2002 2:36:11 PM EDT by Aggie1]
[url]http://www.rugerforum.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000037.html[/url] [b]Gentlemen, AR15FENCER, who works for Dell is looking into this matter. Please hold any further responses to Dell until we know all of the facts.[/b] This is from the Ruger Forums. I am writing this because I feel every Firearms owner should know this story. I placed an order for a Dell notebook computer on February 13 on line with Dell. I was given a tentative delivery date of February 21st. I was watching the order through the Dell on line tracking system; I also opted for the automatic email notification of when the machine was to be shipped. Well the 21st came and went, I am a Pistolsmith I know things can happen. I made a phone call on the 25th, did a voice mail message for my salesman to get back to me and I was looking for the delivery date. The 25th came and went with no callback. On the 26th I placed another call this time to cancel the order. After a few hours I got a call back, with this amazing reason for the delay. It seems someone in Dell had already canceled my order, when I asked why I was told Dell was afraid I was going to use the machine for illegal purposes. When I asked why someone would think that I was told it was because of the name of my business “Weigand Combat Handguns Inc.”. Because I am involved in firearms I might be doing something illegal. Now keep in mind I was never called or informed of this decision the order was just canceled. Many of you know me personally and know I run my business about as squeaky clean as possible. In addition being the President of the American Pistolsmiths Guild I am under additional scrutiny as to how I run my business, if I am not clean how can I be the President of an organization that promotes just that! I was informed by a Dell supervisor not long after all of this the reason I was refused was because of their post September 11th policy of screening buyers. I would like to respectfully ask the firearms community to do the following. If you intended to buy a Dell and because of this letter you do not, email Dell and let them know why. Feel free to distribute this account to all you know in the Firearms community, I think they need to know. I for one am sick and tired of people assuming just because we are involved with firearms that we are doing something illegal. I also do not believe Dell deserves our business if this is how they intend to treat us. God Bless Jack Weigand President American Pistolsmiths Guild Inc.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:23:00 PM EDT
You've given me one more reason to NEVER buy anything from Dell. As if that obnoxious teenage kid on their TV commercials wasn't enough.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:26:59 PM EDT
Damn, what next? No one will sell me gasoline because they'll be afraid I'll make a bomb instead of powering my car?
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:29:36 PM EDT
Dell can go screw themselves!!!!! Maybe they should not sell CD burners since they can be used for illegal purposes, a more direct less than legal operation by using their computers Maybe they shouldn't sell to major coorperations since they could use the computers in a less than legal fashion. Email being sent right after this response. The jist of it will be, F.O.A.D., just in a much more professional fashion. I will let them know that the computers I planned to buy for work will definately not be Dells. Ohh yeah, and the moron kid on their commercials annoy the crap out of me as well. Good point CA kid.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:33:45 PM EDT
I'd be glad ro send an e-mail, but would like to get more info and some confirmation of the details BEFORE I tell Dell to "bite me." How would I do this????
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:38:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2002 1:38:40 PM EDT by Aggie1]
Originally Posted By garandman: I'd be glad ro send an e-mail, but would like to get more info and some confirmation of the details BEFORE I tell Dell to "bite me." How would I do this????
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[url]http://www.jackweigand.com/[/url] phone #'s and email listed there.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:40:19 PM EDT
Email sent. I am pissed.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:43:55 PM EDT
My ears are open, lets Rosie 'em!!
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:46:40 PM EDT
I can't believe someone beat me to this... "Dude, you're [b]not[/b] getting a Dell!"
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:46:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aggie1:
Originally Posted By garandman: I'd be glad ro send an e-mail, but would like to get more info and some confirmation of the details BEFORE I tell Dell to "bite me." How would I do this????
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[url]http://www.jackweigand.com/[/url] phone #'s and email listed there.
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thanx. I'll call back in the morning,as his shop has already closed for the day. Us gunners take care of our own.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:48:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kindstranger: My ears are open, lets Rosie 'em!!
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I'm in the market for a $2000 computer and Dell is not on my shopping list.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:48:43 PM EDT
Just sent this to my Dell rep: ---------------------------------------------- The link below shows that Dell refused to sell a computer to a business because it was firearms related. Do you really want all firearms and 2nd ammendment supporters to boycott Dell? You've come a long way but you can easily slide right back down into non-existence, specially because of crap like this. www.rugerforum.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000037.html I have always supported and recommended Dell but this leaves a very bad taste in my mouth and I am sure I will never be able to buy a Dell product in the future unless you rectify this situation. Millions of gun owners in this country, you sure you want to lose all our business? I purchase hundreds of Dell computers every year, if you don't straighten this shit out, I can just as easily buy IBM, Compaq, HP, whatever. Signature and dell account number removed
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:48:43 PM EDT
" Dude, you're going to hell!" Screw these guys. e-mail sent.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:51:20 PM EDT
What email address are you guys sending your complants to?
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:51:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2002 2:48:55 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
Never bought a Dell - never will. To complain, call Dell Customer Service at... Home & Home Office: 1-800-624-9897 Small Business: 1-877-773-3355 Medium Business: 1-877-671-3355 Or use this link to send go to directly to their [url=http://support.dell.com/us/en/dellcare/segtopic_ccare_nav_notlisted_ccare.asp]Dell Customer Service[/url] email form to write an email complaint. [b]To: Dell Customer Service, Re: Jack Weigand, President, American Pistolsmiths Guild Inc. Owner, Weigand Combat Handguns Inc. Your failure to do business with a perfectly legitimate and law-abiding firearms company (listed above) because of your unfounded and hyperreactive fears that it "might" be used illegally is a shame upon the very name of Dell Computers. Because of your poor judgement and disrespectful attitude towards legitimate firearms companies, I shall not buy any Dell products or peripherals. Furthermore I shall spread the word among my many friends, colleagues, co-workers, business associates and other contacts throughout the Internet that Dell Computer Co. is not a name to be respected and I will recommend GateWay computers or other computer outlets to conduct my business in the future. Good day. [/b]
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:51:27 PM EDT
I've sent my response off to Dell....hard to believe we are becoming Russia.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:53:52 PM EDT
... Come on guys & dolls, we all need to voice our concerns to Dell about this. ... Now
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:54:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2002 2:08:13 PM EDT by Stealth]
btt Thanks Macallan. I used your letter, almost word for word. I changed that one section that was typed here a little quickly. [:D] Just about now I think they are trying to figure out what this firearms company is and who is to blame for alienating it and it's customers. They will never admit making a mistake publically, but they will have a "change of heart". How gracious of them. As was said before... "Dude, you're NOT getting Dell".
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:55:33 PM EDT
E-mail sent, and I must say that I was reasonable in my letter and asked Dell for confirmation of this incident. In the same message, I asked them to reconsider this if it is indeed true. I also pointed out that the ownership of (most)firearms is protected by the US Constitution. I doubt that these dumbasses will respond, but I will update this if they do.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:59:28 PM EDT
Anybody got any idea who the salesman was? I'm in tech support at Dell... I'd definitely like to give him a peice of my mind. That order should not have been cancelled. That just irks me to no end.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:00:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2002 2:03:41 PM EDT by IAM_NAKID]
Originally Posted By Matrix: I've sent my response off to Dell....hard to believe we are becoming Russia.
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Didnt you hear russia is free now. were the one's that are communist. Dude: you suck.... <===Dell
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:02:16 PM EDT
I just sent 'em an email. What do you want to bet we all get some lame ass form letter talking about terrorists and such?
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:05:42 PM EDT
Glad I have a Gateway... I don't know about there gun stance, but I do know that they are trying hard to win back their share of the market, so their prices are good right now and will probably get better. I've had good experience with Gateways, YMMV.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:18:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2002 2:20:17 PM EDT by thedave1164]
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:18:54 PM EDT
Maybe some of the Dell employees on this board will give some information on the subject.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:19:22 PM EDT
Dells are much better than Gateways. I've used 100's of both at my job. I tell my friends who are in the IT business to buy from Dell. According to a post on Fal Files, Jack Weigand said it was a breakdown on comunications and he will no longer buy the PC. I think he shouldn't have to BUY it. They should give it to him as an apology. Wonder if we can send in enough emails and call and complain so much, that they give him a written apology and a free laptop. I'll call/email my Dell representative when I get into work tomorrow.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:20:26 PM EDT
Guys, according to this, Mr Weigand actually called to cancel the order. At least, that's what the notes on the order reflect. What it looks like is Mr. Weigand ordered it, and it didn't get it right on the 21st, so got upset and cancelled the order. That might not be what actually happened, but it looks like he called either customer service, or technical support, and they noted that he was concerned about the ship date, and requested to cancel the order. Don't be so fast to judge Dell yet. I can look into this further, maybe find the sales person and communicate with them. If any of you have any questions or concerns about this, let me know. I'm not aware of Dell refusing any legal businesses either sales or service, nor am I aware of any policies after 9/11/01.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:26:56 PM EDT
AR15FENCER, Thanks for looking into this but I wouldn't rely on just the call notes from the customer care center. I have dealt with the customer care centers of many different electronics firms. Not everything gets entered into the call notes. Many times I have called in only to find that there was no record of any previous calls. If you can find out more then let us know. Aggie1
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:28:29 PM EDT
Are there any lawyers here? I think Dell's actions may be illegal. They ARE discriminatory at the very least. A civil lawsuit is justified. Go to hell, Dell. I'll be sending you an email shortly. CJ
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:32:06 PM EDT
Email sent. We are currently leasing Dell servers and are going to be adding more - of somebody else's servers.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:32:41 PM EDT
Guys, hold on... Don't 'jump the gun' yet. I'm emailing Mr. Weigand to try to obtain information, so I can try to ascertain whether he is being truthful, and to find out what our sales policies are. I do know that Dell, in fact, will not sell to someone whom they feel will use our equipment for illegal purposes, but I am almost certain that this DOES NOT extend to legal firearms manufacture. Feel free to email me any questions or concerns, but don't react so quick... that's what ANTI'S do. We're not them, so let's not act like them. M@
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:39:48 PM EDT
Don't 'jump the gun' yet. I'm emailing Mr. Weigand to try to obtain information, so I can try to ascertain whether he is being truthful, and to find out what our sales policies are.
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I emailed Jack to confirm the situation. He did write the original email; it is valid. Not being one to actually suggest such an action, but I wonder what the financial impact would be to Dell if 10,000 or 20,000 shooters placed orders for computer systems then cancelled them in 6 hours, making sure to sell the sales drone why the order is being cancelled.[shotgun]
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:41:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Defcon: Maybe they shouldn't sell to major coorperations since they could use the computers in a less than legal fashion.
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Enron anyone?
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:44:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:46:35 PM EDT
I agree with Fencer. There are two sides to every story. I have worked on Compaqs, Gateways, HP, and the rest of the lot and none compare to working on a Dell or the lack of having to work on one. Let Fencer do some research before we get up in "arms". These folks put food on our table, and in our industry right now jobs aren't that plentiful. Maybe Mr. Weigand can shed some more light on this issue. There are no policy's to my knowledge in effect to Dell from supplying the shooting industry. Ask Remington or folks like Wilson Combat.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:58:46 PM EDT
I would just like to say that at my employer Pal Systems...[url]www.palpc.com[/url] we would prefer to sell computers and servers to gun owners and dealers. But, of course we sell to non-gunnies too...
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 3:08:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2002 3:17:04 PM EDT by thedave1164]
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 3:18:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thedave1164: AR15Fencer, I hope you do not take this wrong, but jumping on this and reacting swiftly is precisly what we need to do. If this is just a "misunderstanding" then it will insure that Dell and their competitors will toe the line so to speak. We are the people and we need to let them know what is right and what is wrong. We will be ignored if we just try to be civil and not jump the gun. It is easy for me to apologize if I am wrong, but this smells to high heaven.
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Jumping the gun is just what we do NOT need to do. That's what the ANTI's do to us. They lump us ALL into one group and try to put us down. I think that the cancellation of Mr. Weigand's order was one individual's misguided judgment call, and is not reflective of Dell as a whole. We saw how effective a boycott of a company can be by those of us that support the 2nd Amendment. Given that Dell puts food on my plate, and keeps a roof over my head, you have to understand that I'm in the middle here. I won't stand for my company becoming an anti-gun organization, but I will not allow my company to be crucified by my comrades.. unless it is JUSTIFIABLE. And I'm working to find that out now. I'm emailing the sales rep on the order to ask him politely about the sales policies. NO, I will not give his name or email on this forum.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 3:28:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 3:42:17 PM EDT
I'm going to agree with AR15FENCER on this one and say you need to give this some time. Hasty decisions shouldn't be made since apparently this incident has only affected one business and one PC. Nowhere on Dell's web site can I find any public policy relative to restricting sales to gun owners or car owners or cat owners. Now if you want to short the stock - have at it, but this is either a mis-understanding or an over-reaction. Just my 2 cents. Jim
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 4:01:36 PM EDT
We have one email from Weigand, nothing more. If it was something bigger than that, like multiple businesses or 'smiths getting snubbed I think the reaction would be justifiable. However, one (as yet, unconfrimed) event is not justification for the ar15.com Army to start marching on Dell. Me thinks it is just as likely that Mr. Weigand is just a pissed off customer who had a late delivery and wanted to really hurt the company. There are a lot of immature little assholes out there, and Weigand being the President of the American Pistolsmith's Guild isn't precluded from lapsing into a temper tantrum. I've been a customer service rep. It sucks. People won't accept that we might have to deal with thousands of people everyday and they pitch a fit. Having dealt with a number of 'smiths, I'd say a pistolsmith is far more likely to be an asshole if he doesn't get his way. If everything went down as Weigand stated (which I doubt), then we have a problem that needs fixing. Since that hasn't been confirmed (other than Weigand said so) we shouldn't knock Dell.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 4:17:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2002 4:42:11 PM EDT by AR15FENCER]
Everyone, From my email to Mr. Weigand, and his subsequent reply, it doesn't seem that anyone at Dell flat out [i]told[/i] him his sale was denied because of his company name, or his type of business. He was told that due to some screening policy change, and miscommunication, his order was cancelled. Mr. Weigand was the one who assumed it was because of his business name or business type. I did email the sales rep to find out if there are any policy changes since 9/11, but it seems more like there may have been a goof up, and Mr. Weigand assumed it was because of his type of business. M@ Mr Weigand's reply to me:
Matthew, Thanks so much for the input. My salesman's name was ******, I have his extension number at the shop, I am at home. I have since been contacted by a Barbara Clements from export. Her reasoning for the cancellation was some sort of post 9/11 screening procedure. What I will say here is that I was never told my order was canceled, it was just canceled. She has explained it was a breakdown in communications but I have to say I don't buy it. I am not the kind of guy that is angered very easily but I am very angry at the moment. It seems to all boil down to the words "Combat" in my company's name.
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Edited to add: On a cursory search, Wilson Combat is a customer of Dell's... purchased a desktop system and a few peripherals in January. Given their name contains the word 'combat'... well, make your own assumptions.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 4:18:18 PM EDT
I concur HKocher. I too had good experience with the Gateway folks. Not sure of their firearms attitude, but I don't think they give a damn about who shoots and who don't.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 4:20:33 PM EDT
Sent the message to Dell!
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 4:22:05 PM EDT
Mr. Weigand's post is at odds with my experiences with the company. There are a good many gun related businesses as Dell customers. My small part-time reloading business among them. The company is loaded with shooters, at least here locally. (How many sales staff do you know of that go to the range together?) I can think of another half dozen gun related businesses a lot bigger than mine who are very satisfied with Dell products and service. I have bought 5 desktops or laptops from them over the past 6 years, not so much as one phone call to tech support was ever needed. Before we all go howling off like a bunch of rabid wolves we need to do a little research into the validity of all this.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 4:30:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 4:53:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 5:01:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15FENCER: Everyone, From my email to Mr. Weigand, and his subsequent reply, it doesn't seem that anyone at Dell flat out [i]told[/i] him his sale was denied because of his company name, or his type of business. He was told that due to some screening policy change, and miscommunication, his order was cancelled. Mr. Weigand was the one who assumed it was because of his business name or business type. I did email the sales rep to find out if there are any policy changes since 9/11, but it seems more like there may have been a goof up, and Mr. Weigand assumed it was because of his type of business. M@ Mr Weigand's reply to me:
Matthew, Thanks so much for the input. My salesman's name was ******, I have his extension number at the shop, I am at home. I have since been contacted by a Barbara Clements from export. Her reasoning for the cancellation was some sort of post 9/11 screening procedure. What I will say here is that I was never told my order was canceled, it was just canceled. She has explained it was a breakdown in communications but I have to say I don't buy it. I am not the kind of guy that is angered very easily but I am very angry at the moment. It seems to all boil down to the words "Combat" in my company's name.
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Edited to add: On a cursory search, Wilson Combat is a customer of Dell's... purchased a desktop system and a few peripherals in January. Given their name contains the word 'combat'... well, make your own assumptions.
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Is anyone else bothered by the fact that Dell is screening customers? If they are, then they are stupid. If they are not, then somebody is lying to cover their ass. Sounds like somebody in sales dropped the ball and then instead of owning up to it started some BS story. I work in sales and I see this crap happen all the time. I know the customer is not always right but neither are we.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 5:30:49 PM EDT
I do know that Dell does charge more to businesses that buy their machines than private citizens. So at our company we have our employees buy them and we re-imburse them. I am betting it was a certain person making the call and not a company wide policy.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 5:38:47 PM EDT
& here I just bought some more PC for our network.........from Micron Want to know more about this before I go emailing Dell. Any employee know if this is a policy?
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 5:47:25 PM EDT
When you guys get your shit straight let us know. None-the-less someone is getting an Email or six when you do.
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