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Posted: 2/26/2002 5:28:09 AM EDT
Just curious; having an argument w/ a kid at work, blah, blah, blah... so I gotta ask: [b]UL or no?[/b] Also, if you don't have any actual first-hand experience training on/with goats, could you post a link with some substance to back up your assertion? Thanks!
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 6:06:37 AM EDT
Not to sure where you are going with this, but i know that the Brits have used farm animals to train corpsman you should be able to find some info on the web. Not to sure if the U.S. does it, i remember hearing something about them training in ER's in areas like D.C., L.A., etc. that have a lot of gun shot wounds. here is another alternative being looked at http://www.ithaca.edu/faculty/sstansfield/topLevel/snlWeb/vrais.html
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 6:09:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2002 7:19:01 AM EDT by Dolomite]
Originally Posted By rogerb: Not to sure where you are going with this
View Quote
Me neither. FWIW, here's three more websites that offer a blurb about goats. The second link is pretty much anti-US-mega drool, but funny nonetheless, the third one is a paper for an english class in UC Berkley where in the end, a Private earns his Green Beret(Do a lot of privates get Green Berets? I don't know, I was never in the Army): [url]http://www.military.com/Content/MoreContent/1,12044,NL_medics_swarner,00.html[/url] [url]http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/southamerica/ASoldiersStory.html[/url] [url]http://www.expage.com/page/sfmedic[/url] An excerpt from the first link: The first challenge is meaningful training. Medics can't place chest tubes in patients at military hospitals -- that procedure is reserved for a surgeon. They also can't start IVs, other than on themselves; nurses do that. Recently, medics with a Special Forces unit practiced inserting an 18-inch needle into each other's chest cavity to practice opening airways, and four medics were sent to the hospital with collapsed lungs, said Col. Robert DeFraites of the Army's Medical Corps. [b]COME ON!!![/b]
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:25:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2002 1:28:19 PM EDT by WSmac]
The only goat labs I've ever been aware of were for the Special Forces (U.S.Army) medics during their 300F1(or something like that) course. This was way back in the 70's though. I do know that more Army medics - 91B/C are getting their EMT certifications. My wife had some S.F. medic trainees rotate through her pediatric department up at Ft. Wainwright ***** DISCLAIMER***** NO KIDS WERE HURT DURING THIS TRAINING!!! (get it? Kids...as in baby goats!!!) OK, so that was lame. I did hear several years ago that the goat labs were no more, but I can neither confirm nor deny this story. So basically, I just added another post to my post count and probably didn't help you out much.[:D] edited to add that regular Army medics (91B) do not go through a goat lab, never have that I'm aware of.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:36:10 PM EDT
When I worked EMT ambulance shifts in Leadville in the late 70s, the Army used to train at Camp Hale, not far from us. After assisting their medics bringing in their casualties from numerous training accidents, we often had time to sit and compare jobs. They did in fact practice field amputaions on live goats at the time, and bragged about it in detail. We all were fascinated in a repulsed sort of way. Something in us thought this was very useful, and kinda cool, and our rational sides were horrified, both at the thought of *these* guys doing surgery, and no anesthetic being used on the goats. BTW, I have never seen a lower standard of EMS care than these guys exhibited. They were rough in their patient handling, and their basic care, (splinting, immobilizing, bandaging), seemed sloppy. I am fully aware of the differences between civilian and military triage and such, but there seemed little excuse for their brusqueness, as they were transporting by ambulance on paved highways to a civilian facility, not flying someone back from the front lines strapped to a chopper skid. They seemed almost disappointed that they didn't get to do field surgery. I hope things have improved since then.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:49:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2002 1:50:07 PM EDT by JIMBEAM]
My brother was a Field Corpsman in a USMC reserve unit. I don't believe he worked on any goats in his initial training but I do remember him talking about a more advanced school he wanted to attend. He referred to it as goat school. He indicated that they were require to stablize a goat after it had been shot. Don't know if it was true may have just been a Sea Story. I can't ask him now since he is dead.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:51:50 PM EDT
The only time we used animal material for training was the sheep's throats and trachea for inserting emergency tracheotomie's. i.e. Inserting a large gauge needle streaming oxygen trough it in case of an obstruction in the airway we can't clear by normal means.....heimlich or by laryngoscope/magill.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 3:11:03 PM EDT
I knew a Navy medical officer years ago who said they had to patch up some goats that had been shot up with M16 rifles. I remember he said the little 5.56mm "made hamburger out of them" He was real impressed with the mess that bullet made. I Always assumed he was telling the truth, but it could be BS.
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