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Posted: 2/13/2002 7:55:55 PM EDT
And sparks flew:
Spann Family: Lindh Is a 'Traitor' By JENNIFER LOVEN .c The Associated Press ALEXANDRIA, Va. (AP) - They showed up, unannounced, to call John Walker Lindh a traitor. The mother, father and widow of slain CIA officer Johnny Micheal Spann have a score to settle - and no hesitation about saying so. ``John Walker is a traitor because of the way he lived,'' Spann's mother, Gail, said Wednesday. ``If you go back from the time he was 16 years old and just go through his history, you know, what more could I say? It's so simple and I hope that all Americans will feel the same way that I do.'' She and Spann's father, Johnny, had traveled from Winfield, Ala., to see how Lindh would respond to the allegations against him. The elder Spanns watched quietly alongside Spann's widow, Shannon. Their presence in the small courtroom and before reporters outside afterward made a dramatic statement as Lindh proclaimed himself innocent of conspiring to kill Americans and supporting the Taliban and terrorist organizations. Spann and Lindh crossed paths in November in Afghanistan, in a prison where the young American Taliban soldier was being held with fellow fighters. Spann and another CIA agent tried, apparently unsuccessfully, to interrogate Lindh. Later that day, during an armed rebellion in which the prisoners took control of the compound, Spann became the war's first combat casualty. Lindh, meanwhile, disappeared with other captives into a prison basement where he was discovered almost a week later. Spann's death left three young children without a father, including his and Shannon's 8-month-old son. Gail and Johnny Spann also now are raising their son's two young daughters from his first marriage, orphaned when their mother died of cancer five weeks after Spann was killed. Though the government's indictment does not directly accuse Lindh of killing Spann, it cites his presence at the bloody uprising as a reason for the murder conspiracy charge. If convicted on all 10 counts, Lindh could end up with multiple life sentences. Spann's widow said that would not be enough for a man who ``dedicated his life'' to waging war against the West and Americans. Shannon Spann - a CIA employee herself who lives in northern Virginia - would rather see Lindh accused of treason, which could result in his execution. ``We expect Mr. Walker to be held personally responsible for all of the things that he has done,'' she said calmly. ``Certainly I should have preferred the death penalty myself.''
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Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:01:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2002 8:13:59 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
The defense contends Lindh intended to fight the anti-Taliban northern alliance, not Americans. But Spann's family made it clear that is not their view - and said they hope the court will agree. Spann's father said on ABC's ``Good Morning America'' he considers Lindh responsible for his son's death as an accomplice. ``We sent our sons and our daughters and our husbands and our wives and our fathers and our mothers to a faraway land to fight this terrible evil so we could continue to live and enjoy the freedom that we live in today,'' Johnny Spann told reporters. ``As we all know, freedom's not free. Bodies have come home draped with flags. Mike's was the first. ... Americans will not tolerate traitors.'' After the legal proceeding, Lindh's father, Frank, approached Spann's father in the crowded courthouse hallway. He tried to shake his hand, offer condolences and say his son was not involved in the younger Spann's death. Officials from the prosecutor's office, however, intervened to end the conversation. AP-NY-02-13-02 2010EST
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How many of you knew about this part of his families story:
Spann's death left three young children without a father, including his and Shannon's 8-month-old son. [red]Gail and Johnny Spann also now are raising their son's two young daughters from his first marriage, orphaned when their mother died of cancer five weeks after Spann was killed.[/red]
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That is just mindboggling, those poor kids, he had to leave them while they were going through that with their mother, and then he is killed on top of everything else... I dont recall seeing anything in the media prior to this about the kids being left in this position. Anyone else?
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:14:52 PM EDT
Gives me the warm fuzzies all over.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:17:29 PM EDT
Yeah, looks like they are going to try and make the "first degree murder rule" apply here, only problem is you cant execute someone under that.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:19:27 PM EDT
"John Walker Suleiman Al-Rashid Lindh, I hereby sentence you to be fed into a woodchipper. Feet first. May God have mercy on your soul. Proceeed."
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:29:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: "John Walker Suleiman Al-Rashid Lindh, I hereby sentence you to be fed into a woodchipper. Feet first. May God have mercy on your soul. Proceeed."
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The only reason I think Walker- and his asshole father- are alive after what happened this afternoon is that Mike Spanns parents have to raise their two grandchildren themselves now and cant afford to be sent to jail, even just for assault.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:29:36 PM EDT
If he is conficted, can we start a AR15.COM lottery on how long he lasts in the joint? Will Vegas give odds?
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:43:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Grin_N_Barrett: If he is conficted, can we start a AR15.COM lottery on how long he lasts in the joint? Will Vegas give odds?
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Unfortunately, the POS will be in a "protected" part of the prison because otherwise the government would be sued by the ACLU and his family for endangering his life.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 1:13:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: "John Walker Suleiman Al-Rashid Lindh, I hereby sentence you to be fed into a woodchipper. Feet first. May God have mercy on your soul. Proceeed."
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Ya, just like Pepe.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 1:29:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 1:33:43 AM EDT
Wasn't Jeffery "I want to have you over for dinner" Dahmer being kept in a "special" area of prison for his own protection? Fat lot of good it did him...
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 1:39:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: Wasn't Jeffery "I want to have you over for dinner" Dahmer being kept in a "special" area of prison for his own protection? Fat lot of good it did him...
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That's what I recall.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 1:47:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 4:57:39 AM EDT
I wonder if the black Muslim "brotherhood" behind bars would welcome Lindh as some sort of hero.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 5:11:24 AM EDT
[b]Though the government's indictment does not directly accuse Lindh of killing Spann, it cites his presence at the bloody uprising as a reason for the murder conspiracy charge. If convicted on all 10 counts, Lindh could end up with multiple life sentences.[/b] Don't you guys know how to read?? Since when is this a crime?? I suppose you all believe everything the govt. and the "press" tell you about the Kennedy assaination, Ruby ridge, and Waco too?? My first thought on reading the article was, did the prosecuter pay their way?? Why was the Spann family there?? To inflame folks? If the jury is as easily manipulated by their emotions as much as you all are, why have a trial??
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 5:30:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: [b]Though the government's indictment does not directly accuse Lindh of killing Spann, it cites his presence at the bloody uprising as a reason for the murder conspiracy charge. If convicted on all 10 counts, Lindh could end up with multiple life sentences.[/b] Don't you guys know how to read?? Since when is this a crime?? I suppose you all believe everything the govt. and the "press" tell you about the Kennedy assaination, Ruby ridge, and Waco too?? My first thought on reading the article was, did the prosecuter pay their way?? Why was the Spann family there?? To inflame folks? If the jury is as easily manipulated by their emotions as much as you all are, why have a trial??
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You seem to relish your role as smug, accusatory, insulting know-it-all. Have you seen the government's evidence? Have you listened to the tapes of the FBI interviews of Johnny Al-Rashid? If not, then you have no idea what evidence will be presented at trial. What's your theory on what happened there or what his part in it was? What's your idea on what crimes he committed? Oh, that's right! You don't have to present any ideas or theories! You exist only to insult others and make accusations. Thank you for playing.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 5:41:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Originally Posted By liberty86: [b]Though the government's indictment does not directly accuse Lindh of killing Spann, it cites his presence at the bloody uprising as a reason for the murder conspiracy charge. If convicted on all 10 counts, Lindh could end up with multiple life sentences.[/b] Don't you guys know how to read?? Since when is this a crime?? I suppose you all believe everything the govt. and the "press" tell you about the Kennedy assaination, Ruby ridge, and Waco too?? My first thought on reading the article was, did the prosecuter pay their way?? Why was the Spann family there?? To inflame folks? If the jury is as easily manipulated by their emotions as much as you all are, why have a trial??
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You seem to relish your role as smug, accusatory, insulting know-it-all. Have you seen the government's evidence? Have you listened to the tapes of the FBI interviews of Johnny Al-Rashid? If not, then you have no idea what evidence will be presented at trial. What's your theory on what happened there or what his part in it was? What's your idea on what crimes he committed? Oh, that's right! You don't have to present any ideas or theories! You exist only to insult others and make accusations. Thank you for playing.
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My first idea is that he is innocent (like our system is SUPPOSED to operate) until proven guilty, just like Randy Weaver should have been before his trial, (proven innocent)........
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 5:45:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: "John Walker Suleiman Al-Rashid Lindh, I hereby sentence you to be fed into a woodchipper. Feet first. May God have mercy on your soul. Proceeed."
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Do you know what a "lynching" is jarhead??
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 5:57:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2002 5:59:44 AM EDT by Jarhead_22]
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: "John Walker Suleiman Al-Rashid Lindh, I hereby sentence you to be fed into a woodchipper. Feet first. May God have mercy on your soul. Proceeed."
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Do you know what a "lynching" is jarhead??
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Do you know what a "sentence" is? It's something a judge passes after conviction. It must be nice to be so superior to the rest of us that you never make any assumptions based on the information available. Oh wait:
My first thought on reading the article was, did the prosecuter pay their way??
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Johnny Al-Rashid took up arms in the military of a foreign nation. Is that fact in dispute? He fought for a force that wished harm on the nation of his birth and its people. That force aided and abetted terrorists who committed horrendous acts against the US. Since my chi is obviously not as centered and at one with the infinite lifeforce as yours, I'll avoid the rush and start hating Johnny Al-Rashid now. Tell you what though, I won't actually seek his death unless and until he's convicted. Happy?
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 6:10:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2002 6:22:51 AM EDT by liberty86]
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
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Originally Posted By liberty86:
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Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: "John Walker Suleiman Al-Rashid Lindh, I hereby sentence you to be fed into a woodchipper. Feet first. May God have mercy on your soul. Proceeed."
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Do you know what a "lynching" is jarhead?
Do you know what a "sentence" is? It's something a judge passes after conviction
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Seems like you've already passed it.
It must be nice to be so superior to the rest of us that you never make any assumptions based on the information available
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If the info comes from the govt & press, then you are correct. I believe NOTHING they tell me at first blush.
Johnny Al-Rashid took up arms in the military of a foreign nation. Is that fact in dispute? He fought for a force that wished harm on the nation of his birth and its people. That force aided and abetted terrorists who committed horrendous acts against the US.
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At the time, the Taliban was NOT recognized by the US or the UN as the govt of Afghanistan, therefore he did NOT take up arms in the military of a foreign nation. There is NO evidence that he was a member of "Al- Quida" that I have seen. I believe he stated he took up arms against the northern alliance.
Since my chi is obviously not as centered and at one with the infinite lifeforce as yours, I'll avoid the rush and start hating Johnny Al-Rashid now. Tell you what though, I won't actually seek his death unless and until he's convicted. Happy?
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Thankyou.....
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 6:22:04 AM EDT
1. It doesn't matter what I say or think about what happens to him. If I sentence him to death now or later because I hate him for being a traitor against his country, that has no impact on his fate. I think it's a little self-righteous and hypocritical of you to object so stridently. 2. What will you believe? It seems to me that you will only believe the worst about America, and in that case, why even bother? I make my assumptions, and you damned sure make yours. 3. He has stated that he was trained in an Al-qaida camp and met Osama bin Laden.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 6:34:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: 1. It doesn't matter what I say or think about what happens to him. If I sentence him to death now or later because I hate him for being a traitor against his country, that has no impact on his fate. I think it's a little self-righteous and hypocritical of you to object so stridently. 2. What will you believe? It seems to me that you will only believe the worst about America, and in that case, why even bother? I make my assumptions, and you damned sure make yours. 3. He has stated that he was trained in an Al-qaida camp and met Osama bin Laden.
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Self righteous? Hypocritical? Did you take the oath? Please read Article 3, section 3 again. Also perhaps Article 6 of the Bill of Rights.... Is your #3 above a crime? Has it ever been? As for your #2 above, I have fought in our countrys "defense". I've seen some of the worst about her....AND some of her BEST!
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 7:11:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2002 7:12:20 AM EDT by Jarhead_22]
Originally Posted By liberty86: Self righteous? Hypocritical? Did you take the oath? Please read Article 3, section 3 again. Also perhaps Article 6 of the Bill of Rights....
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And this prevents me from having an opinion how? You seem to be the only one who is allowed to make sweeping generalizations and damning accusations in your world.
Is your #3 above a crime? Has it ever been?
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Apparently so. He's been charged, hasn't he?
As for your #2 above, I have fought in our countrys "defense". I've seen some of the worst about her....AND some of her BEST!
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And all you seem to be able to remember and spout here is the worst.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 9:35:19 AM EDT
Liberty86, I know what you mean. I also wondered why the Spann family was there. But we are not supposed to question. This is turning into a mob mentality, either you believe everything the goverment says and act like a true "patriot" or you are on the side of the terrorist, absolutely rediculous. Who knows if "Johnny Taliban" even knew he was going to be fighting american forces. I think he is just some dumb ass that went to search for something "religion", got caught up with a bunch of zealots that went to fight another "clan" (the northern alliance) and then found his ass under custody of american forces. It's not like they got any real news media over there, you only know what the clan leader tells ya. But what the hell do I know. I love this country but still don't have much love for lying POS politicians that run our country, does that mean I am a terrorist lover, hell no.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 3:42:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hellraiser: Liberty86, I know what you mean. I also wondered why the Spann family was there. But we are not supposed to question. This is turning into a mob mentality, either you believe everything the goverment says and act like a true "patriot" or you are on the side of the terrorist, absolutely rediculous. Who knows if "Johnny Taliban" even knew he was going to be fighting american forces. I think he is just some dumb ass that went to search for something "religion", got caught up with a bunch of zealots that went to fight another "clan" (the northern alliance) and then found his ass under custody of american forces. It's not like they got any real news media over there, you only know what the clan leader tells ya. But what the hell do I know. I love this country but still don't have much love for lying POS politicians that run our country, does that mean I am a terrorist lover, hell no.
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Thanks, I agree, I believe it's the jarheads "herd" mentality, (that & apathy), that's contributing to the death of a once great people.....
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 5:43:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2002 5:45:24 PM EDT by Jarhead_22]
Originally Posted By liberty86: Thanks, I agree, I believe it's the jarheads "herd" mentality, (that & apathy), that's contributing to the death of a once great people.....
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You don't believe that taking up arms with the band of terrorists who bombed the USS Cole, the two US embassies in Africa and perpetrated the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks is wrong. Either that, or you don't believe Al-quaida did it. You never present an argument or any evidence, of course, because that would require a commitment to something beyond your own narrow self-interest. Make an argument. Put up some evidence. It's got to be tiring living in that narrow little conspiracy world all the time.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 6:20:27 PM EDT
I have heard a lot of support for "Ratboy". I am not surprised that Liberty86 is taking his side. Most people who hate America both left and right will try to find some way to defend Lindh. Let me tell you what is wrong here: 1. Ratboy was raised in very liberal family with a sissy dad and a Mom who rejected Christianity and took up some Buddhist crap. 2. He was sent to one of those left wing high Schools in the Bay area that caters to "diversity" views. 3. Instead of being given decent values he was encouraged to seek his own answers. 4. His "parents" thought it was great that he wanted to explore a very destructive religious sect. 5. My understanding is that he actively engaged in the terrorist training and indoctrination. 6. He knew he fighting against the US but chose not to give up but to take the side of his soul mates. (Maybe he wanted the 76 virgins or something). 7. He has yet to show any remorse. 8. He is a pig and the only injustice is that he wasn't taken out and shot immediately. 9. His father, who is lawyer, thinks he can get his son off on some technically during the trail. The injustices of it all is that maybe the father is right. 10. Last, but not least Liberty86, I think Randy Weaver would most likely want to see Ratboy get fried. After all, Randy and his wife were real Americans.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 8:33:56 PM EDT
Flash, let me adress #10 first. Yes Randy & his DEAD wife were real Americans, but before his trial he was crucified by the same govt. and media you and the rest of the sheep are falling all over yourselves to follow now! The same govt. who demonized him, entrapped him, and killed his wife. The same media & govt. who demonized over 80 men, women, and children in Waco Texas, and murdered them.....All without trial, as you and your ilk seem to prefer. I stand for our CONSTITUTION and our founders principles, and am assailed for being "un-american!" You and yours are prime examples of the govt. run "schools" currently cranking out little people like you. You have no concept of your heritage, and are too blinded to learn. As for your 1-9, I choose NOT to take at face value the words of those who have lied to us so often in the past. Under our system,(once the worlds greatest until it started producing little yous), this guy is innocent until proven guilty. Thank G*d Randy Weaver did NOT have such as you & jarhead on his jury..... So who really hates America Flash?? You & yours certainly express hatred for her principles...
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 8:44:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Originally Posted By liberty86: Thanks, I agree, I believe it's the jarheads "herd" mentality, (that & apathy), that's contributing to the death of a once great people.....
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You don't believe that taking up arms with the band of terrorists who bombed the USS Cole, the two US embassies in Africa and perpetrated the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks is wrong. Either that, or you don't believe Al-quaida did it. You never present an argument or any evidence, of course, because that would require a commitment to something beyond your own narrow self-interest. Make an argument. Put up some evidence. It's got to be tiring living in that narrow little conspiracy world all the time.
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Thats the whole point that you don't even see jarhead. I don't have to show evidence, I'm not the one who wants to kill some one in the name of the state! Little world of conspiracy? You believe the Kennedy story?? Gulf of Tonkin?? Pearl Harbor?? Randy Weaver? Waco? Income tax ratification? The list goes on & on. I have a much better track record for truth than those you choose to blindly follow........Guess where they are leading you.....BAAAAAA!
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 8:59:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2002 9:00:03 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
[red][size=6]Allright, who keeps feeding the god damn troll!?![/size=6][/red]
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 9:20:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: Thats the whole point that you don't even see jarhead. I don't have to show evidence
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This isn't a court of law. You don't show it because you haven't got it.
I'm not the one who wants to kill some one in the name of the state!
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He's a traitor to his country, not the government.
Little world of conspiracy? You believe the Kennedy story?? Gulf of Tonkin?? Pearl Harbor?? Randy Weaver? Waco? Income tax ratification?
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You don't know what I believe, and you never will with your smug, insulting, self-satisfied attitude. We're probably a damn sight closer than either one of us knows, but with you and your crew lashing out at anyone who is not, in your opinion, as dogmatically pure as you, who can ever stomach enough of your rant to find out?
The list goes on & on. I have a much better track record for truth than those you choose to blindly follow.
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You don't know enough about me from my posts here to know who I'm following, what I think about the political leadership in power today or anything else to make statements like that with any kind of factual standing.
Guess where they are leading you.....BAAAAAA!
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They? Who is "they?" The same ones that are holding Ginny Gaines at CIA headquarters? Yeah, I'm the bad guy. I want a scumbag like Suleiman Al-Rashid executed after a fair trial, which is why I made the statement that went so far up your nose [b]in the form of a sentence from a judge.[/b] Get a sense of humor, or life's regular kicks in the ass are going to chase you into a clock tower with a deer rifle one day.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 9:30:32 PM EDT
Sorry gents, I'm done here. Anymore of this will take place offline, if at all.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 10:58:42 AM EDT
Liberty86 Although I'm living in WA now I come from the South and a family that has a strong history of fighting for the Constitution and left wingers in the U.S. Some of my family member have given their lives for what they belive in. I have proudly fought for America in Vietnam when many people chose to hate America and cop out. I think that a great injustice was done in Waco. Another great injustice was was done at Ruby Ridge. I believe that the government was never properly held accountable for their actions. The Constitution was damaged quite a bit in both those actions. American is a great country. You see examples of it all the time. We are turning left wing and that will be downfall. We should be diligent in our opposition. However, please be aware of one thing. This extreme right wing hate will do us no good in the long run. The bombing in Oklahoma City did more damage to our cause than anything. If Tim McVeigh would gone after the sniper that shot Weaver's wife he would have been a hero among many. Instead he took the cowards way out and killed children of good decent people and did no damage to the real villains. I choose not to take his side. Please re-example your extreme views. You have already pissed off guys like Jarhead. Just think about this - you are on on the side of all the left wing assholes with your support of Ratboy. Good company to be in????
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 11:52:02 AM EDT
John Walker's dad, in an interview with Larry King, said that little Johnnie expressed support for the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole. Anybody who has that kind of disdain for innocent Americans deserves our disdain.
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