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Posted: 2/13/2002 5:22:23 PM EDT
Attention all of you gear junkies. The Marines in Afganistan say that the new Generation MOLLE gear sucks. The Frames break, the Assault Cargo carrier sucks cause it retains a lot of heat and the some of the gear bounces up and down beating the Marines on forced marches. Another problem was the Camel backs. Apparently the Camel backs leaked after heavy field use causing Marines to awaken to soaking wet gear or sleeping bags. The only good thing was the interceptor vest which was comfortable in the cold. FYI this vest stops 9mm rounds by itself and 7.62mm rounds with the ceramic plates installed. All of you looking to purchase MOLLE Gear do not buy the gear that the Marines are sending to DRMO.(Defense Reutilization Maintenance Office). This is where your run of the mill Surplus store gets this trash. Right now there is quite a few MOLLE I and II gears out there. Stay away! Save your money before you buy this stuff. Stick with the ALICE system which is archaic but functional. I just don't want to see any fellow AR15.com ers get ripped off paying for rejected Marine trash. I quoted this stuff from Marine Times and an email I received from division. Max
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:37:20 PM EDT
I thought they tested this stuff before adopting it for issue? Now we're finding out that it beats Marines up during forced marches, leaks during heavy use, etc. That tells me that no forced marches were conducted during testing, and that either the CamelBaks weren't filled or the equipment wasn't used the way a typical Marine in the field would use it. Ya know, it might just be that this kind of stuff needs to be kept simple enough that a video on how to use it doesn't have to be supplied with it. I agree with Maxell27 - I'll stick with my large ALICE that I carried through at least 100 field exercises (and 1 war) on 4 continents. It's been tossed out of the backs of trucks, strapped to the tailgate of a humvee, and sat on top of my MLRS launcher during every live-fire I've done, and aside from a broken snap (that was already there and was the reason I got it for $5 at MCSS) and a couple small holes, it's as good as it was when I bought it. It's been slightly modified for better functionality (IMO) without reducing its inherent strength.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:52:36 PM EDT
It really must be crap then... Cause otherwise it would be hard to wear out equipment when they were only off the boat for, what, 90 days? I am suspicious...
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 9:08:34 PM EDT
MOLLE gear does suck. I had to replace my frame twice within a year. The pack itself is very unconfortable when worn with the LBV. The Intercepter vest is better than the old flak vest protection wise but on the old one when you got hot you just pulled it open a little. On the Intercepter vest the front of the vest closes with 2 overlaping velcro flaps. It is all or nothing. It also needs more padding on the sholders.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 10:29:05 PM EDT
The guys from SOE said the same thing...
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 12:41:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 3:15:06 AM EDT
Gents here is the actual article from Marine Times: Marine Corps Times February 18, 2002 Pg. 15 MOLLE Wasn't Only Piece To Flunk Tests By C. Mark Brinkley and Rob Curtis, Times staff writers The Corps’ new pack isn’t the only personal gear item getting a combat fitness report from Afghanistan. While the modular, lightweight load-bearing equipment — known as the MOLLE — got the most attention for failing most often, other items got some notice. Here’s the down and dirty on how personal gear fared in Afghanistan, from the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit’s Battalion Landing Team 3/6, the guys who used it. Load-bearing vest When the load-bearing vest was part of the initial MOLLE issue in 1999, it featured a complex probe-and-socket system that connected the vest to the pack and was supposed to help distribute weight to the Marine’s hips. Marines hated it almost immediately, claiming it retained heat and was hard to use. That vest was dumped, as was the socket system, and a new LBV was issued with MOLLE 2. The redesigned vest no longer attaches to the pack, but still is not faring much better. "Most of Battalion 3/6 doesn’t even wear the vest," said Maj. Timothy Maxwell, a member of the combat assessment team sent to Afghanistan from the Marine Corps Combat Development Command in Quantico, Va. "They hate the vest. They attach the canteens and all of the magazine pouches and everything directly to the flak jacket, because the vest is just added weight."
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 3:16:13 AM EDT
However, the flak jacket is supposed to be worn underneath the vest, not replace it. Using the armor as a load-bearing system has its drawbacks, particularly for Marines riding in tightly packed amphibious tracked vehicles or Light Armored Vehicles. "Now you can’t shed the gear and just wear the flak, and that’s important when you’re crawling around on the inside of an amtrack," Maxwell said. Flak jacket The new body armor that replaced the old-style flak jacket fared well in Afghanistan, possibly because of its insulating qualities. "Generally, the flak was fairly well-accepted," Maxwell said. "It probably had something to do with the fact that it was cold here." The only complaint Maxwell heard about the armor came from a large Marine, who said the flak jacket collar choked him. "He’s got like an 18-inch neck, and he said he went from a large to an extra large to an extra-extra large, and he said the neck size seemed to be the same," Maxwell said. "He can’t keep his cinched down." CamelBak But while the body armor fared well, Marines found fault with the personal hydration system that comes with the MOLLE system, often referred to by its brand name, CamelBak. "The CamelBaks all are leaking," Maxwell said. "They’re leaking from the valve, and they all want a shut-off valve." Once the valve breaks, there’s no way to know when 100 ounces of water will come dribbling out. Many Marines complained of awakening to a wet sleeping bag or soaked gear after the hydration systems slowly leaked water all night. And if the CamelBak breaks, there are no more to be had in the supply tent. They are part of a Marine’s one-time-only issue of the personal equipment known as "782 gear." "There’s no resupply capability at all for a CamelBak," Maxwell said. "So if any part breaks, you’re SOL. There’s no way to get any resupply, and of course, things break when you walk around the desert." The broken water bags caused problems for leathernecks with the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit who never expected their hydration systems to let them down. Normally, each Marine would carry two one-quart canteens plus a two-quart canteen. But in Afghanistan they chose to rely on just the two one-quart canteens and a CamelBak. "For example, Lima Company went up north on this nine-hour patrol that lasted for nine days, and many of the Marines only had two quarts of water with them because the CamelBaks were shot," Maxwell said. "So, that was a problem. "This is information for the follow-on MEU: Without a backup capability, you’re not going to have any water. It was a mistake, probably, looking back."
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 4:35:20 AM EDT
The Marines in Afganistan say that the new Generation MOLLE gear sucks. The Frames break, the Assault Cargo carrier sucks cause it retains a lot of heat and the some of the gear bounces up and down beating the Marines on forced marches.
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The old ALICE gear wasn't all peachy, either. I had an ALICE pack with a "quick release" strap that tended to quickly release at the worst possible times. I also learned the hard way that the NBC caps for the canteens would fall apart when the water in the canteen froze.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 5:38:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Renamed: I had an ALICE pack with a "quick release" strap that tended to quickly release at the worst possible times.
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How true that is. The quick releases were definitely a weak point. We used to just 100mph tape them and use gravity as our "quick release."
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 6:24:10 AM EDT
I was issued that MOLLE bullsh$t in Korea in '92. Certain units in the 2nd Infantry Division were issued it as a "test." It sucked then with ripping seams, breaking frames etc. While I was clearing, there was a big pile of them that were heading for scrap. The verdict then was they SUCKED and I can't believe that they would "make changes" and try and sucker the military into purchasing them again. The ALICE system, while not the greatest, WORKED.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 8:41:09 AM EDT
We've had MOLLE gear for over a year and I have to give it a thumbs down overall. There are some things I like about it, like the 6 mag bandoleer that comes with it, the capacity of the pack and the attachable day pack. However, the LBV and packs are shit. There are so many fricking adjustment tabs hanging off the thing, I know one of these days I'm going to find my ass dangling 5,000 from a helo because one of them got caught somewhere. Big thumbs down on the CamelBacks. The first time I wore one was a January drill and the whole nozzle broke off. I had my pack on at the time, so the water was all under pressure. About half of the thing unloaded all over me before I even realized it. So it was 15 degrees out andI was soaking wet. Never used one again. As for the pack frames - anything plastic will never work. Since the beginning of time we have been using canteens and kicking ass just fine. If it aint broke, dont fix it.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 8:54:51 AM EDT
All of you fellow AR15.comers just hold off from buying this trash. The Surplus store normally charges more for that crap than it really costs us Marines. Example a new MOLLE pack complete with the day pack is about 160 bucks new. Out in Saigon Sams or Pappy's surplus they want 225 bucks for a brand used one. Screw that. Don't buy rejected surplus trash. Save your money and buy the stuff that works. Max
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 4:59:05 PM EDT
The other nice thing about ALICE was that she'd curdle your toes if you let her.... Oh, wait a minute, wrong thread. [:D]
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 5:48:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2002 5:50:25 PM EDT by Happyshooter]
Hey, in 92 we were messing with some bullshit self putting up tent with holes in it for the back of hummers to back in and some cobbled together computer frag thing for the brand new mobile DASC. The chick from NAVELX who was in charge of the test spent most of her time flashing hand on tummy chest puffed out shots to our LTs, and the rest of the time planning drinks with the supplier reps at 5 at their hotel an hour away from the test site. This thing broke every 5 seconds, and the damn tent leaked air, much less water, and it was new. I asked one of the tech reps one night what the story was, and he told me they were trying to sell it to the army as a mobile hospital that could link up to the medivacs, but the army got wise, so they figured the navy would buy it for the Corps. He said all they do is promise an admiral a do nothing job when he gets out, and it only costs them 75k (back then) a year for 5 or so years, and then he makes the chain buy the crap. And that was for something like 10 total units. What they would pay for sales of 500k complete systems to the Corps. (Frag = Wing fragmentary order--shows plan of all planes and helos, for missions and standbys, for a 24 hour period. The computer system, in theory, would also allow launch requests)
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 5:58:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 7:56:12 PM EDT
I wonder if they were issued the camelbak storm, which doesn't have the nylon cover. It's basically just a bladder with the drinking tube sticking out of it. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. Maybe somebody in the know could tell us if that is the case.
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