Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 2/13/2002 7:04:47 AM EDT
This story is about the, ahem, gentleman who caused such a ruckus on that flight into Salt Lake City by leaving his seat during the final 30 minutes of the flight, which is against FAA regs when flying into that particular airport. He had just watched a commercial for [u]his[/u] company, which featured a video of him, when the following occurred: [size=4]Suspect Says He Doubted Marshals[/size=4] BY MICHAEL VIGH, THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE Richard Bizzaro claims that when three young men in street clothes took control of a commercial airliner bound for Salt Lake City, he believed they were hijackers posing as sky marshals. And he wasn't going to let them get away with it. "I believed I was witnessing a hijacking of our airplane," Bizzaro said Monday in his first public statement since he was charged two days earlier with felony interference with a flight crew. But when the Park City man's Delta Air Lines flight from Los Angeles touched down Saturday night, he was the one arrested by the same trio of federal agents, who had taken over the flight after Bizzaro improperly left his seat. "I believe the situation was aggravated by my and other people's attitudes prompted by the Sept. 11 attacks where we are all fearful of one another," Bizzaro said in a written statement in which he apologized for his actions. About 30 minutes before landing, Bizzaro, who happened to have appeared on an in-flight video feature about his business, left his first-class seat and went to the restroom. Under Olympic security rules, passengers on commercial flights into Salt Lake City may not leave their seats during the final half-hour in the air. Bizzaro, a frequent traveler, said he had never heard the restriction announced before, and no one stopped him when he stood up. When he exited the restroom, Bizzaro said he was confronted by a flight attendant, whose comments he interpreted as rudeness. "I now know she was just doing her job," Bizzaro said. Federal prosecutors say he intimidated the attendant with his stares and his size -- 6 feet, 2 inches and 235 pounds. After he finally sat down, Bizzaro was seen giving a "thumbs up" to a pair of passengers, an FBI agent alleges. Bizzaro, 59, vehemently denies that allegation and says the three air marshals looked young enough to be his grandchildren and may have had fake badges. One marshal was wearing a baseball cap backward, he added. "They did not give the appearance they were law enforcement officers and I did not pay them the proper respect," Bizzaro said. "I overheard conversations between the young men that they were observing something going on at the back of the plane. It did not occur to me that I was seen as the problem until I was informed afterwards." - continued -
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 7:05:26 AM EDT
The agents said Bizzaro continually looked at the coach cabin, making his behavior appear suspicious. Bizzaro's attorney, Max Wheeler, said his client looked back because "he thought a hijacking was going on in the back of the plane." After he demanded a closer look at the badges, he realized they were real and began to comply, Wheeler said. Until that time, he said, Bizzaro was thinking he may have to take action against the trio as the passengers appear to have done on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania on Sept. 11. U.S. Attorney Paul Warner wasn't sounding mollified on Monday, two days after he charged Bizzaro with a federal crime that could net him up to 20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. "This is an important point: We're taking a heightened look at anything that appears to have an impact on the safety and security of the Games," Warner said. Bizzaro is CEO of Unicity Network of Orem, a multilevel marketing company with $100 million in annual sales of herbal supplements. The company was featured in an in-flight CNN news segment. Bizzaro found it "kind of surreal," Wheeler said. "He was arrested just after seeing his business featured on the flight." See article at:[url]http://www.sltrib.com/2002/feb/02122002/utah/utah.htm[/url] Eric The(Bizarro,Indeed)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 7:11:03 AM EDT
So he might face 20 years in prison because he thought an undercover cop (marshal) wasnt a cop ...kinda fishy if you ask me.....
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 7:27:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2002 7:30:57 AM EDT by TheRedGoat]
You know it is this kind of crap that makes all of us jumpy. When is a cop not a cop? When is a home invader not a cop executing a "no-knock" warrant? When is the car behind you with an odd flashing light only a stalker masquerading as an undercover patrol car? Cops should look, act, behave and dress like a COP at ALL times. Muddying the water by pretending to NOT be a cop, then suddenly expecting people to realize you were only PRETENDING to NOT be a cop is RE-GAWD-D***-DICULOUS! Respect the authority of the police when they don't act like police, dress like police, behave like police, ad nauseum! TheRedGoat PS,,,, Yeah, I know you need to be undercover at times guys/gals.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 7:35:43 AM EDT
No, no, no! When air marshalls are traveling on airliners, the flight crew knows who is and who isn't an air marshall! [b]But I don't want Mohammad Atta, Jr., knowing![/b] So if you're asked to take your seat by a flight attendant, please take your seat! If the flight attendant is joined by a strange looking dude wearing a baseball cap backwards, and they both ask you to take your seat, please take your seat! You have to remember, there are a lot of folks up there, flying along, [b]and we don't need any friggin idiots ruining everybody's day![/b] When you're told to sit down, sit the f*** down! File a 'wrongful seating' lawsuit once you, the flight attendants, the scuzzy looking air marshalls, and the rest of the passengers are safely on the ground! God forbid if I'm on a flight with my grandchildren and some idiot acts in such a manner! [u]I'll[/u] be the one led away in cuffs for beating the crap outta that guy! He'll be taken off on a stretcher. Eric The(Quiet,Reserved)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:04:26 AM EDT
This article is quite different than the one I read two days ago. In that one, the air marshals made everyone on the plane sit with their hands on their heads for the remainder of the flight like some kind of twisted Simon Says game. That really pissed me off. I don't think I would comply with some asshole who told me to sit with my hands on my head. I'll tell him and his SS friends to just shoot me. Frankly, I don't care what the regulations are or are not, or what this guy might have done, but it is clear to me that our country is going fascist in a big way. You need an example? How about a "30 minute rule" that no one ever heard of until someone got in trouble for breaking it? Arbitrary rules are the hallmark of authoritarian governments. Why were there three sky marshals on one flight? They don't have enough of these idiots to put on all the flights, so why have three on one flight? Doesn't make any sense. But with a name like Bizarro, why should any of it make sense?
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:07:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:13:20 AM EDT
So his name is "Dick Bizzaro"? LOL [:D]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:14:28 AM EDT
Im just currious what law did he break??? refusing a direct order from a LEO....hhmmm is that a law...im an LEO and i dont remember that one.....I mean other then a littlr ruckuss what did he do to "QUALIFY" for a possable 20 years in the big house.....what was the crime...we are missing part of the story here...
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:25:30 AM EDT
The '30 minute rule' applies, IIRC, to only two airports in the country - Salt Lake City and Reagan National in DC. The captain announced the restriction (1)when they took off, (2) 45 minutes before they landed, and (3) when the rule went into effect 30 minutes prior to landing. Maybe bizarro was too busy to listen. Whatever, he caused a scene at 30,000 feet, and his attorney-induced response: 'the air marshalls looked like they were about to take over the plane, so I thought about stopping them' is, well, [b]bizzare![/b] I believe in the RKBA, but not on a commercial airliner at 30,000 feet! Everyone acted as they should have, with the sole exception of this idiot! Or are you guys wanting to see just where the next 'shoe-bomber' manages to secret his C-4? Maybe it can be determined at the crash-site, maybe not, but this is a very good rule! Eric The(OK?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:29:37 AM EDT
Im not saying the guy wasnt an idiot ...Im not saying the airmarshals shouldnt have forced him to sit down.... im not saying he wasnt wrong.... what im asking is to justify a possable 20 years in prison.... what was the actuall crime other then make a few people get all hopped up on adrenaline.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:37:15 AM EDT
Seems to me a shoe bomber would HAVE to be sitting to light his feet, so a no-leaving-your-seat rule does nothing to stop them. [;)] I agree with TheRedGoat--- an LEO should LOOK like an LEO. He/she is asking for trouble otherwise. Of course, I would have no problem doing anything J Lo ordered of me at gunpoint, but that's a separate issue. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:41:43 AM EDT
When the smoke clears from this incident I'm sure there will be no prison time for this individual and maybe a small fine.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:49:32 AM EDT
OK a fine...but for what...what Law was broken what "WRONG" did he do other then argue with air marshalls.......what "CRIMINAL" act did he commit???
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:59:53 AM EDT
i guess he should have just pissed his pants, or is that a crime too?
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 9:04:18 AM EDT
Post from marvl -
Seems to me a shoe bomber would HAVE to be sitting to light his feet, so a no-leaving-your-seat rule does nothing to stop them.
View Quote
What? You've never sat down in a restroom on board a plane?[:D] If Richard Reid, the shoe-bomber, had gone to the restroom, he might not have been so easily discovered! Smarter people than us have figured that keeping everyone in 'plane' view is the wise thing to do!
I agree with TheRedGoat--- an LEO should LOOK like an LEO. He/she is asking for trouble otherwise.
View Quote
I always agree with TheRedGoat, except on this one point - if the FAA believe that it is important that the air marshals fly undercover, which they have, and which I agree with, doesn't that settle the matter once and for all? The Flight Attendants, the air crew, the Captain (you know the guy on the PA system) must simply be obeyed once the plane is airborne. That is not easily overlooked. They all wear uniforms! But some of the flight crew are girls, and big hulking, rich men like Mr. Bizzaro, sometimes like to try and intimidate girls, especially when they're not getting the kind of respect that folks who appear on their own company's commercial ad in flight, feel they truly deserve! Imagine J-Lo keeping you from going to the bathroom! [b]Here's the simple question:[/b] Should [u]everyone[/u] on the plane know precisely who aboard is an air marshall and where they are seated? Isn't it sufficient if the flight crew knows? And even before Sept 11, interfering with the duities of a flight crew was a serious federal felony! At 30,000 feet, I want everybody in their seat and minding the teacher! OK? It's the law![:D] Eric The(IfThat'sTooGreatAPriceToAsk,ThenWalkToYou­rDestination!)Hun[>]:)] BTW - Waverunner is, of course, correct. It is sadly true that wealth can sometimes permit folks to be able to get away with shenannigans that would mean serious time for the rest of us!
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 9:05:28 AM EDT
One marshal was wearing a baseball cap backward
View Quote
Even though they're out of uniform and they're dressed like a thug, they still expect everyone to jump when they say? I often see the local police wearing blue jeans and T-shirts. During the summer, several city officers here wear T-shirts with shorts. How are we (the public) supposed to know who they are? Some kid tells me to put my hands-up, I'm going to wonder if I'm dealing with an officer or a mugger. How do I find-out without either giving a mugger time to hurt me or without making the (armed) officer think I'm resisting? I'm already unarmed (due to a fascist state police that refuse to issue concealed carry permits even though SC is supposed to be a shall-issue state), so I need all the advantages I can get against a mugger.z
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 9:06:37 AM EDT
Post from Burn -
So he might face 20 years in prison because he thought an undercover cop (marshal) wasnt a cop ...kinda fishy if you ask me.....
View Quote
Why is that? Thousands of criminals are spending a great deal of their adult lives in prison because they thought that the undercover cop wasn't a cop! Happens all the time! Eric The(Realistic)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 9:18:42 AM EDT
Should you risk a felony conviction by using the plane's toilet within 30 minutes of landing? Well, it depends... [img]http://www.vgmfinancial.com/images/depends.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 9:31:20 AM EDT
Post from zoom -
Even though they're out of uniform and they're dressed like a thug, they still expect everyone to jump when they say?
View Quote
No, but the FAA expects that you [b]will[/b] follow the rules when aboard a commercial airliner. One of those rules is to obey the directives of a member of the flight crew. Another is the so-called '30 minute rule' for Salt Lake City and Reagan National. If Mr. Bizarro had simply minded the directions of the flight attendant, then the scuzzily-dressed air marshalls would not have had to identify themselves, thereby possibly compromising the continued security of the remainder of the flight. Mr. Bizarro could then have gone to see his lawyer about suing the crap outta the airlines and the FAA, while the other passengers went about their merry, Olympic business. Instead, he risked quite a bit, got shackeled and manacled, and finally mananged to see his lawyer through a 6 x 6 piece of bullet proof plexiglass in a holding cell somewhere in Utah! Tell me that wasn't dumb! Meanwhile the passengers are busy filling out questionnaires and being interviewed by LEOs at the airport! What was the name of that guy's company again?[:D] How about this: Mohammed Atta, Jr., is on a plane somewhere in the US. His co-terrorists are scattered throughout the plane. At a prearranged signal (such as the Captain's announcement that the 30 minute rule is in effect), another member of the terror squad gets up and attempts to go to the bathroom. The flight attendants approach the passenger and attempt to get him to return to his seat! He loudly objects, and begins to create a scene. The scuzzily-dressed air marshalls then get up to come to take control of the situation. While all this distraction is happening, Mohammaed Atta, Jr., and his conspirators are....what? Use your imagination. Ceramic knives? Pre-positioned explosives? Just a simple smash and grab in the cockpit? How many of you prior to Sept 11 thought that boxcutters could result in the World Trade Centers' collapse? The plane's security has been compromised, the identity of the air marshalls are known by one and all, and the entire crews' and passengers' attention is diverted from Mohammed Atta, Jr. and Co. Lord, I would have at least thought the folks on this Board had learned something from Sept 11! Eric The(CorrectMeIfI'mWrong)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 10:06:14 AM EDT
Eric The(CorrectMeIfI'mWrong)Hun
View Quote
Eric, I rarely disagree with you...but this is one time I will have to. Let me put it this way...When I am flying I rarely listen to the PA. Most people don't. Especially Frequent Fliers. Why ? Becuase They are usually just going over safety rules that frequent fliers have heard a million times. So, many people don't listen. But, had they informed him of the rule when he got up it would have been one thing. Instead, after he leaves the bathroom a Stewardess approaches and tells him to sit down as 3 armed men are moving towards the front of the plane. What did youe expect him to think ? Let me put it this way, if you are on a flight and 3 men hijack it while you are in the restroom...what will the stewardess and the hijackers tell you when you get out ? They will tell you to sit down...that way they can watch you. This guy seriously believed that while he was in the restroom a hijacking had occured. So, when he is told to sit down by a stewardess and 3 armed passangers, he assumed that the orders were from the hijackers and were not lawfull orders from a LEO. But, here is the bigger point...HE SAT DOWN ONCE THEY PROVED THEY WERE AIR MARSHALLS RATGER THAN HIJACKERS. This is exactly what I would have done. Only difference is I would probably be dead right now since I would have tried to disarm the "hijackers". cc (FAA = Communist) 48510
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 10:06:49 AM EDT
How many of you prior to Sept 11 thought that boxcutters could result in the World Trade Centers' collapse? The plane's security has been compromised, the identity of the air marshalls are known by one and all, and the entire crews' and passengers' attention is diverted from Mohammed Atta, Jr. and Co. Lord, I would have at least thought the folks on this Board had learned something from Sept 11! Eric The(CorrectMeIfI'mWrong)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
Preach on, Brother ! I couldn't agree with you more. People HAVE to understand the difference between "Being Vigilant" and being part of the problem ! [soapbox]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 11:01:59 AM EDT
Post from cc48510 -
Instead, after he leaves the bathroom a Stewardess approaches and tells him to sit down as 3 [u]armed[/u] men are moving towards the front of the plane.
View Quote
'Armed' men, how did Mr. Bizarro know [u]that[/u]? He thought the badges they showed him were fake at first, according to [u]his[/u] statement! But upon closer examination, they were genuine!
What did youe expect him to think ?
View Quote
That the flight attendant was part of the terrorist group? That the flight attendant was telling him to return to his seat so that the hi-jacking could continue without his fat ass getting in the way? And that's not the way it happened. Mr. Bizarro was arguing with the flight attendant and [u]then[/u] the undercover air marshalls got involved! Read [u]his[/u] statement! You don't have to believe Delta's statements to convict this nerd - his own statements should suffice! Eric The(Gawd,I'dHateToFlyWithYouGuys!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 11:10:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Post from Burn -
So he might face 20 years in prison because he thought an undercover cop (marshal) wasnt a cop ...kinda fishy if you ask me.....
View Quote
Why is that? Thousands of criminals are spending a great deal of their adult lives in prison because they thought that the undercover cop wasn't a cop! Happens all the time! Eric The(Realistic)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
you took that out of context...what i was asking was what the charge was sure it happens every day with undercover cops but the person isnt charged with "not beliving the under cover cop" the are charged with a crime IE: theft, assault something but not "oh im a cop and because you didnt belive me your going to jail" so ill ask again what did they charge him with.....
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 11:21:57 AM EDT
Note to BURN: The crime? Short form: 'Interference with flight crew' Long form: [b]49 USC Sec. 46504. - Interference with flight crew members and attendants[/b] An individual on an aircraft in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States who, by assaulting or intimidating a flight crew member or flight attendant of the aircraft, interferes with the performance of the duties of the member or attendant or lessens the ability of the member or attendant to perform those duties, shall be fined under title 18, imprisoned for not more than 20 years, or both. However, if a dangerous weapon is used in assaulting or intimidating the member or attendant, the individual shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life Just say 'Thanks, Hun'! Eric The(You'reWelcome!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 11:26:17 AM EDT
God I’m getting so sick of people whining about their rights being violated. 1) It’s a private airliner people. They can ask for your last tax return and a photograph of your genitalia if they want. (You are free to decline and not fly if you so choose.) 2) They told people about the new flight rules 5 times, once before takeoff and three times during the flight. The captain notified everyone @ 70 minutes so he had ten minutes to get up and piss before he was violating the law. – In short, stupidity should be painful.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 11:31:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Note to BURN: The crime? Short form: 'Interference with flight crew' Long form: [b]49 USC Sec. 46504. - Interference with flight crew members and attendants[/b] An individual on an aircraft in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States who, by assaulting or intimidating a flight crew member or flight attendant of the aircraft, interferes with the performance of the duties of the member or attendant or lessens the ability of the member or attendant to perform those duties, shall be fined under title 18, imprisoned for not more than 20 years, or both. However, if a dangerous weapon is used in assaulting or intimidating the member or attendant, the individual shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life Just say 'Thanks, Hun'! Eric The(You'reWelcome!)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
it says she was intimidated by his size not by his actions WTF...ok so he acted an ass......but Im 6'4" and 260lbs im not fat im big and my wife says Im intimidating (I DONT SEE IT) but if i boreded a plane I could be charged with this because I "intimidated" a flight crew person...come on it was a case of mistakes mad by a jackass...not "LETS THROW HIM IN PRISON FOR 20 YEARS"
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 11:34:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Instant_Karma: God I’m getting so sick of people whining about their rights being violated. 1) It’s a private airliner people. They can ask for your last tax return and a photograph of your genitalia if they want. (You are free to decline and not fly if you so choose.) 2) They told people about the new flight rules 5 times, once before takeoff and three times during the flight. The captain notified everyone @ 70 minutes so he had ten minutes to get up and piss before he was violating the law. – In short, stupidity should be painful.
View Quote
Youre right I agree 100% what I dont agree with is sending him to prison for 20 yrs thats just stupid and a waste of resources
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 11:43:38 AM EDT
Post from BURN -
it says she was intimidated by his size not by his actions WTF...ok so he acted an ass
View Quote
The offense is intimidating a flight attendant so that it interfered with the performance of that flight attendant's duties. One of the flight attendant's duties is to make certain that the passengers comply with rules and regulations, such as by remaining seated during the final 30 minutes of this flight! Mr. Bizarro certainly did that! Not to worry, BURN, as Waverunner pointed out, the likelihood that this fellow spends any time in jail is nill! But paying a hefty fine? Hell, yeah! If you had been forced to fly with your hands on your head, as the rest of the passengers were, wouldn't you want his ass kicked in the wallet? Eric The(NotThatVengeanceIsRight,It'sJustGood!)Hun­[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 11:44:43 AM EDT
yeah It would piss me off but I dont think they can make the charge of "INTIMIDATION" stick unless they have more info they arnt sharing with the public......but Ive sat on enough cases then read the news to see how the news chews up a recolection of an event....so go figure
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 11:51:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Instant_Karma: God I’m getting so sick of people whining about their rights being violated. 1) It’s a private airliner people. They can ask for your last tax return and a photograph of your genitalia if they want. (You are free to decline and not fly if you so choose.) 2) They told people about the new flight rules 5 times, once before takeoff and three times during the flight. The captain notified everyone @ 70 minutes so he had ten minutes to get up and piss before he was violating the law. – In short, stupidity should be painful.
View Quote
The government, not the airliners, are making the rules. Therefore, this is a civil rights problem.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 11:58:36 AM EDT
I agree with the Hun on this one. "concealed" air marshals are like concealed handguns. What good is it if everyone knows who the marshals are. Makes them pretty easy to eliminate as a threat if you are a terrorist. So are you people opposed to undercover police in all occations? Also, this is a rule for SLC for probably the next 2 weeks while the olympics go on. Being a jackass to a flight attendent isn't going to change that. If you have a problem with the rules don't fly or write to your congressman, don't interfere with a flight crew. Hopefully a future captain-Matt
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 12:00:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: If you had been forced to fly with your hands on your head, as the rest of the passengers were, wouldn't you want his ass kicked in the wallet? Eric The(NotThatVengeanceIsRight,It'sJustGood!)Hun­[>]:)]
View Quote
I don't understand this part. If Bizarro misbehaved, take him down, fine. Why penalize the rest of the passengers? Having to put your hands on your head is humiliating. What did they do? What sort of respect will the public have for sky marshals after an experience like this?
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 12:01:26 PM EDT
FWIW: When Grin and I flew home from SHOT in vegas last week, we changed flights in Salt Lake City... On the approach, the flight attendants made certain that EVERYONE was fully aware of the new restrictions. When leaving Salt Lake City for St. Louis, not a word was spoken of it, until somebody got up to use the lavatory after about 15 minutes of flight... The flight attendants went ballistic over the PA for the guy to get back to his seat immediately, and he did. We did [u]NOT[/u] know that this was a arriving/departing thing, as it was never explained as such!
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 12:22:55 PM EDT
Post from ckapsl -
I don't understand this part. If Bizarro misbehaved, take him down, fine. Why penalize the rest of the passengers? Having to put your hands on your head is humiliating. What did they do? What sort of respect will the public have for sky marshals after an experience like this?
View Quote
I wouldn't worry much about the 'humiliation' factor, since all the passengers were being forced to do it! But there may be a fine line between what is too much and what is not enough in these cases, and, since the is the first time something like this is being done, it will be a learn as we go along sort of approach! As a passenger, traveling with my loved ones, and most likely [u]not[/u] knowing anything about what was going on with the man, the flight attendants and those scuzzy looking air marshalls, I would most likely appreciate whatever the crew did to make me feel safer! If it were just myself on the plane, I might feel differently, but as a father and grandfather, I have learned to think first about my loved ones' safety, then about my lost dignity once we're on the ground! It's like those times where there is a genuine justifiable shooting and the LEOs arrive and order everyone on the ground! 'Not me, officer, I'm the hero, I stopped this dead guy over here from robbing this wounded storeowner over there' [b]Wham![/b] You're on the ground! LEOs don't want anyone walking around until the crime scene has been thoroughly secured. Half an hour later, when they take you out of the back of the squad car and un-handcuff you, then you get to tell your story of derring-do! Eric The(Reasonable)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 1:10:37 PM EDT
Eric are you reading something beyond the 2 articles I have read (The one here and on the other post) ? Because, I cannot see where you are coming from on this if these are the only 2 articles you read. Some of the stuff you say about him arguing with the stewardess aren't in the article. It says he stared at her...OOOOOH...So, the next time I stare at someone I can be charged with assault. The problem is that the system is totally screwed up. They are doing stuff that is not going to help at all. In fact, people have been arrested for stupid stuff like referring to a stewardess as a bitch. These do not affect her duties. Sorry, but staring at some uppity stewardess does not constitute interfering in most people's minds. I met one guy a while back (before Sept. 11) who had been arrested a while back for making a pass at a Stewardess. He was subsequently arrested for interfering...He did get off though. The point is that arresting people for looking at a stewardess the wrong way is not going to stop terrorism. Also, preventing a person from using the restroom will not stop a bombing or hijacking. The flights that hit the WTC and Pentagon were not from or to NYC or DC. So, what about flights flying over SLC...when are they going to implememnt this rule for them ? Now, if you are Ricchard Reed, why not simply blow up the flight 31 minutes before landing ? The point is that these rules are draconian. If you ahve to go to the bathroom, you have to go. I am not going to wet or soil myself becuase some dumbass government moron thinks that not allowing me to use a bathroom will stop terrorism. What next, telling people they can't own guns because that'll make armed terrorists stick out ? OH WAIT A MINUTE ? Never Mind...They are already trying that.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 1:29:02 PM EDT
Post from cc48510 -
In fact, people have been arrested for stupid stuff like referring to a stewardess as a bitch. These do not affect her duties.
View Quote
I suppose that it would depend on the circumstances. Martha Stewart calling the flight attendant a 'bitch' for not getting her fingerbowl fast enough might not be intimidating! Mike Tyson calling me a bitch might result in me fainting!
Sorry, but staring at some uppity stewardess does not constitute interfering in most people's minds.
View Quote
'Uppity?' Who said anything about anyone being uppity?
I met one guy a while back (before Sept. 11) who had been arrested a while back for making a pass at a Stewardess. He was subsequently arrested for interfering...He did get off though.
View Quote
Well, that's his side of the story, I'm not certain that the truth is what he told his wife! Or you, either!
So, what about flights flying over SLC...when are they going to implememnt this rule for them ?
View Quote
No, I believe that they have diverted all other traffic clear of SLC, and have fighters aloft for any aircraft that ignores the plan.
Now, if you are Ricchard Reed, why not simply blow up the flight 31 minutes before landing ?
View Quote
Easy answer from the FAA's point of view. If any 'difficulties' begin to happen with the flight, there is a window of 30 minutes for the crisis to be resolved peaceably aboard the plane, or, alas, for orders to be sent to take out the plane!
The point is that these rules are draconian. If you ahve to go to the bathroom, you have to go. I am not going to wet or soil myself becuase some dumbass government moron thinks that not allowing me to use a bathroom will stop terrorism.
View Quote
Let me make this personal for you. I take a blood pressure medication that has a tendency to make me take a whizz quite often, a diuretic, I believe is the term. I understand that there will be situations where I need to plan for my next pit stop. I do. No matter what, I can hold my water for at least 30 minutes. And to save $25,000.00 I can hold it for longer than that! Or, I would simply wet myself![:D] Eric The(GottaRun)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 3:13:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Instant_Karma: God I’m getting so sick of people whining about their rights being violated.
View Quote
Wow, sounds like something Hitler, Stalin, or Mao would say. I think they would agree with you, but my friend Ben would not: "Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty." Benjamin Franklin I think I'll stick with Ben
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 3:46:44 PM EDT
I genuinely admire those of you who truly believe that it is a matter of essential personal liberty for you to take a whiz or a crap at any time you desire, anywhere you want! You will not, however, be invited to the Hun House with that attitude! We spend enough time cleaning up after my beagle, Scooter![:D] He wouldn't like any competition in marking his territory from any of you guys! I've got a better idea - drive a car to your destination and stay outta other people's planes! If you own your own plane, you take whiz on the control panel during takeoffs and landings, for all I care! If you're on a plane that I and my loved ones are on, I'll look for a clothespin or a corn cob to help you make it to the terminal! But you ain't gonna be causing any commotions! [i][b]Comprende?[/b][/i] Eric The(Serious)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 6:28:08 PM EDT
Just another example of why these Statist security rules are stupid. If they allowed concealed carry by ordinary citizens on the planes we wouldn't have these idiotic problems. There would be no reason for cops to look like thugs. There would be no reason to piss your pants 30 minutes from the end of a long flight. There would be no reason th strip search old men with artificial hips....And on and on! [puke]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 6:39:03 PM EDT
Pardon me, garmentless, but as much as I worship at the Altar of the RKBA, I don't really believe that the average citizen needs to be carrying a concealed weapon on a commercial airliner! The weapon could easily be taken from some folks and do you really want a gunfight in a small, confined area? With women and children? If you win the gunfight, you may actually lose, since the cabin may be depressurized, the control cables underneath the flooring disabled, and the earth approaching at 500 - 600 mph! Before Sept 11, no one could credibly have suggested CCW for commercial airlines. I surely don't remember anyone agitating on this Board for the right to carry a weapon aboard a commercial airliner. But now, after the fact, we believe it's the only way we can be safe! If you simply cannot live with this abridgement of your rights, then please don't get on a commercial airliner! Drive instead! Please check your weapons at the gate! Eric The(CanIBringMyBenelliSuper90Aboard?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 6:51:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
Originally Posted By Instant_Karma: God I’m getting so sick of people whining about their rights being violated.
View Quote
Wow, sounds like something Hitler, Stalin, or Mao would say. I think they would agree with you, but my friend Ben would not: "Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty." Benjamin Franklin I think I'll stick with Ben
View Quote
Dude you can piss and moan (or quote [misquote] poor Richard) until the cows come home. You still aint coming into my place of business without my approval. Here’s a quote or two for ya. Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins. –Holmes What do we mean by setting a man free? You cannot free a man who dwells in a desert and is an unfeeling brute. There is no liberty except the liberty of some one making his way towards something. Such a man can be set free if you will teach him the meaning of thirst, and how to trace a path to a well. Only then will he embark upon a course of action that will not be without significance. You could not liberate a stone if there were no law of gravity for where will the stone go, once it is quarried? - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry Don't be a stone – comprende¿
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 7:21:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Instant_Karma: What do we mean by setting a man free? You cannot free a man who dwells in a desert and is an unfeeling brute. There is no liberty except the liberty of some one making his way towards something. Such a man can be set free if you will teach him the meaning of thirst, and how to trace a path to a well. Only then will he embark upon a course of action that will not be without significance. You could not liberate a stone if there were no law of gravity for where will the stone go, once it is quarried? - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry Don't be a stone – comprende¿
View Quote
[center][b][size=4]huh?[/center][/b][/size=4]
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 7:27:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Pardon me, garmentless, but as much as I worship at the Altar of the RKBA, I don't really believe that the average citizen needs to be carrying a concealed weapon on a commercial airliner! The weapon could easily be taken from some folks and do you really want a gunfight in a small, confined area? With women and children? If you win the gunfight, you may actually lose, since the cabin may be depressurized, the control cables underneath the flooring disabled, and the earth approaching at 500 - 600 mph! Before Sept 11, no one could credibly have suggested CCW for commercial airlines. I surely don't remember anyone agitating on this Board for the right to carry a weapon aboard a commercial airliner. But now, after the fact, we believe it's the only way we can be safe! If you simply cannot live with this abridgement of your rights, then please don't get on a commercial airliner! Drive instead! Please check your weapons at the gate! Eric The(CanIBringMyBenelliSuper90Aboard?)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
Eric, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reading that as "you can't carry a gun because you might goof things up." I swear I've heard that line somewhere before... An M1S90 is fine with me if it doesn't break any carry-on luggage size rules. I personally would recommend an MP5 PDW (on semi.)
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 7:32:57 PM EDT
Question : What kinda weapons were they carrying ? Answer : 822 ruaS giS Just one, for the betcha didn't know file. 007
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 8:25:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Pardon me, garmentless, but as much as I worship at the Altar of the RKBA, I don't really believe that the average citizen needs to be carrying a concealed weapon on a commercial airliner! The weapon could easily be taken from some folks and do you really want a gunfight in a small, confined area? With women and children? If you win the gunfight, you may actually lose, since the cabin may be depressurized, the control cables underneath the flooring disabled, and the earth approaching at 500 - 600 mph! Before Sept 11, no one could credibly have suggested CCW for commercial airlines. I surely don't remember anyone agitating on this Board for the right to carry a weapon aboard a commercial airliner. But now, after the fact, we believe it's the only way we can be safe! If you simply cannot live with this abridgement of your rights, then please don't get on a commercial airliner! Drive instead! Please check your weapons at the gate! Eric The(CanIBringMyBenelliSuper90Aboard?)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
I agree completely. Even though I have a permit, I only carry concealed around the house. I leave the pistol at home whenever I'm out in public where theres any chance of women or children being present, since if someone were to try to rob me, there might be a shootout. And that would be a bad thing. Or what if someone took it away from me? What then?! Please, fellow gun lovers. Leave your legal concealed weapons at home...it's for the (women and) children.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 9:41:29 PM EDT
Huh ?????
Originally Posted By 007: Question : What kinda weapons were they carrying ? Answer : 822 ruaS giS Just one, for the betcha didn't know file. 007
View Quote
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 9:46:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cc48510: Huh ?????
Originally Posted By 007: Question : What kinda weapons were they carrying ? Answer : 822 ruaS giS Just one, for the betcha didn't know file. 007
View Quote
View Quote
Sig Sauer 228
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 9:56:45 PM EDT
Eric, myself and many others supported Concealed Carry in the air long before Sept. 11. But, before Sept. 11, if we had suggested it we would have gotten nowhere. There is now some support for arming pilots, etc... I support allowing passangers to carry within restrictions similar to a Security or Police Officer. In that, the gov't could say I cannot have a Barret .50 on board, but a .38 Revolver or 9mm Pistol should be OK as long as it is loaded with Glasers. Basically, I agree that we shouldn't be shooting up the plane. But, a gun that can be reasonably used to place aimed shots should be allowed. Magazine Capacity shouldn't be restricted. But, Caliber and Ammunition used could be restricted. Obviously, I don't want a guy shooting a Fully-Auto. AK-47 with 7.62x39mm AP Ammo. around an Airplane. But, should someone use an HK-93 (Semi-MP5), I would be ok with that as long as they were aiming their fire. At minimum, we should allow passangers to carry knives of any length including my M16/AR15 Bayonet...which would do some real damage. Actually, there would be a good use for a Bayonet Lug and Folding Stock.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 10:43:55 PM EDT
so basically speaking this guy is faceing 20 years in prison with violent rapists, murderers theives and so on becuase of a mistake he made because of an obviously poorly inforced rule that he knew nothing about? gee isn't amerika a great kountry
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 11:26:26 PM EDT
gee isn't amerika a great kountry
View Quote
[img]http://www.unicitynetwork.com/corp/images/Richard-on-White2w.jpg[/img] You know, sometimes I forget that %99 of the world is retarded. Then people like Mr. Bizzaro and you remind me that being told five times is often not enough. I rest assured that the economics of the situation will rule out ever being on a flight with you and it looks like Mr. Bizzaro will wind up paying a fair amount of money for being a self-important ass. - Order is restored, next retard please.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top