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Posted: 2/11/2002 8:12:31 AM EDT
[url]http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020208/od/careers_dc_1.html [/url] These guys need to hear an earful. "They're touchy guns?" Come on! And they say that some deparments have abandoned them because of problems with a "safety catch?" What the heck is that supposed to be? It looks like they are trying to blame Glock, Inc. because their dipstick officer apparently violated basic safety rules: *Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction *Always keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot *Don't shoot little kids in the head!
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 8:18:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 8:25:03 AM EDT
Perfect example why this (and a few other) LEO should be restricted to sling-shots. [;)]
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 8:32:23 AM EDT
Did anyone DOUBT this would be the result? I bet you any official inqiury blames the weapon, too--Philly needs another reason to sue the "gun industry."
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 8:32:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2002 8:33:20 AM EDT by Maddog50]
Originally Posted By trent: Perfect example why this (and a few other) LEO should be restricted to sling-shots. [;)]
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And this is coming from the same people who would have us believe that guns should only be in the hands of police! BTW: If you'd like to give the Philadelpia police department some feedback on their spokesman, SGT Roland Lee, you can do so here: [url]http://www.ppdonline.org/ppd_commend.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:02:51 AM EDT
``They're touchy weapons,'' he said said police spokesman Sgt. Roland Lee.
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Yep, they can be touchy if you don't remove the magazine AND empty the chamber.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:09:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By warlord:
``They're touchy weapons,'' he said said police spokesman Sgt. Roland Lee.
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Yep, they can be touchy if you don't remove the magazine AND empty the chamber.
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[b]AND PULL THE TRIGGER![/B]
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:13:50 AM EDT
Why would an LEO pull their (loaded) duty weapon just because sombody asked to see it?
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:16:58 AM EDT
The problem is the safety catch. all they have to do is redesign it and the Glocks will be a safe pistol. we just need to move it form the trigger to the slide like most other pistols.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:17:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By warlord:
``They're touchy weapons,'' he said said police spokesman Sgt. Roland Lee.
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Yep, they can be touchy if you don't remove the magazine AND empty the chamber.
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Agreed, and also since this Police Dept has proven they need additional 'safety' features maybe this Dept should switch to old fashioned revolvers with a heavy trigger pull our perhaps a semi auto with a real safety?
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:21:02 AM EDT
If you DON'T want it to go BLAM, keep your DAMN finger out of the triggerguard, and OFF the trigger.. Blame the gunmaker.Riight.So Philidelphia is going to go to what? revolvers? and then blame S&W, Colt, or Ruger for lacking a safety at the NEXT embarassing AD incident? I would'nt give this guy a straw and wads of wet notebook paper, let alone a slingshot.. Meplat-
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:21:21 AM EDT
With these safety habits, it would be safest to take away their ammo!
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:22:06 AM EDT
I am in no way, nor claim to be, a Glock expert. Sooo...I removed my Glock 30 from it's holster and examined it carefully. By golly they're right! No safety catchy touchy thingy on mine either! But then I remembered! I'm supposed to be smarter than it.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:24:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 308wood: The problem is the safety catch. all they have to do is redesign it and the Glocks will be a safe pistol. we just need to move it form the trigger to the slide like most other pistols.
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Glocks are plenty safe. If you don't want it to shoot, don't pull the trigger. It's very simple for anyone outside of Philadelphia. And if you just have to stick your finger in the trigger guard when it doesn't belong there, you can install a heavier trigger so the pull is much like the "SAFE" double action revolvers we all know and love.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:27:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Meplat: If you DON'T want it to go BLAM, keep your DAMN finger out of the triggerguard, and OFF the trigger.. Blame the gunmaker.Riight.So Philidelphia is going to go to what? revolvers? and then blame S&W, Colt, or Ruger for lacking a safety at the NEXT embarassing AD incident? I would'nt give this guy a straw and wads of wet notebook paper, let alone a slingshot.. Meplat-
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One possible idea - if you are LEO and you have and AD - YOU ARE OFF THE FORCE, NO EXCEPTIONS.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:28:09 AM EDT
When I pull the trigger on my Glock, It fires! It must be malfuntioning! I think I might have a case against Glock.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:30:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bdsbdsbds: When I pull the trigger on my Glock, It fires! It must be malfuntioning! I think I might have a case against Glock.
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Maybe you can join Philadelphia in their class-action lawsuit.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:30:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:35:46 AM EDT
No one should be allowed to possess a gun if the caliber, expressed in millimeters exceeds their IQ. In this case 9. Watch-Six
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:42:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Watch-Six: No one should be allowed to possess a gun if the caliber, expressed in millimeters exceeds their IQ. In this case 9. Watch-Six
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Good one!
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:44:31 AM EDT
Just found a reason to buy another Glock. If Philly gets rid of it's Glocks, could we do a LEGP Philly Glock purchase? I'd buy at least 5 if they're in good condition and at the right price.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:45:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2002 9:47:43 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
[b]Well U seez, dey done axed me to showz dem myz gun, so I just took it out and - know what-Ahm sayin'? Well... I-'ont know wha' happen afta dat, cuz I's just holdin' it - ya' know? An' soz... alla sudden - it jus' shot by isself!! Know what-Ahm sayin'? Yeah... it jus' shot by isself!. Cuz... dat kid, ya' knowz, he got hit in da head, ya' know? Bu.. I-'ont think I's done nuthin' wrong tho, cuz it jus' shot by isself!! yeah. Crazy-ass gun. I neva use it much anywayz - I didn't even knowed i'was loaded! Hey - is dem jelly donuts ovah dare? [/b]
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:47:15 AM EDT
I was thinking the same thing. I have no experience as a civilian LEO, but as a former Air Force Security Policeman, I can state for the record that we were absolutely forbidden to remove a sidearm from it's holster except in a real "situation" or to clear it at the clearing barrel at the end of the shift.-TR
Originally Posted By ECS: Why would an LEO pull their (loaded) duty weapon just because sombody asked to see it?
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Link Posted: 2/11/2002 10:00:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 308wood: The problem is the safety catch. all they have to do is redesign it and the Glocks will be a safe pistol. we just need to move it form the trigger to the slide like most other pistols.
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And how would this solve the "problem" that some cops out there are dumber than a bag of hammers?
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 10:00:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Maddog50:
Originally Posted By trent: Perfect example why this (and a few other) LEO should be restricted to sling-shots. [;)]
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And this is coming from the same people who would have us believe that guns should only be in the hands of police! BTW: If you'd like to give the Philadelpia police department some feedback on their spokesman, SGT Roland Lee, you can do so here: [url]http://www.ppdonline.org/ppd_commend.htm[/url]
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I just sent them a nasty ass email on handgun safety!!! Thanks for the info!
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 10:13:48 AM EDT
This should not surprise anyone. Did any of us [i]really[/i] think she'd come out and take responsibility for what she did? She caused the incident, she knows it, anyone who's used a Glock knows it... but her department will not allow her to take the blame as it would establish full liability for her and the department. And they'd get sued all over the place. The media will happily report the inherent safety flaws of any firearm, even one that can only be fired by pulling the trigger. [i]Of course[/i] the only action the police can take is to say that the weapon is to blame... not the officer. The general public is already pre-conditioned to know that guns are unpredictable, evil, dangerous things... and the media will use this to reinforce that perception. And sheeple will believe. They're still going to get sued, but this way they can minimize their payout by sloughing off some responsibility on Glock.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 10:31:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Maddog50:
[;)]
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BTW: If you'd like to give the Philadelpia police department some feedback on their spokesman, SGT Roland Lee, you can do so here: [url]http://www.ppdonline.org/ppd_commend.htm[/url]
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[i][b]Excellent Idea - I just sent the following. I would like to see all of us send something similar.[/i][/b] [i]Sgt. Lee made a false and misleading statement to the public "they are touchy weapons". I am a competitive shooter. I am not a Glock fan (though I do own one). The officer involved in the shooting demonstrated reckless and irresponsible behavior in deciding use her weapon as a prop in a classroom setting. The Philly PD has demonstrated reckless and irresponsible behavior for putting cops on the streets with gun handling skills that could best be described as dangerous. Let alone the questionable decision making skills of the individual officer. Nice work. Don't blame the weapon manufacturer - you are doing all of us law abiding gun owners a dis-service. Take responsibility for the poor training of the officer.[/i] Additional Comments? [i]The Philly PD and the officer need to bear the burden of this incident and accept that thier training practices have failed. Do not put this off on the manufacturer - which also has a corresponding negative effect on law abiding citizens.[/i]
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 10:34:13 AM EDT
Let's see... 1) Philly PD COMPARES different gun models to issue. 2) Philly PD CHOOSES Glock knowing it's firing characteristics. 3) Philly PD TRAINS its officers in safety using their Glocks. 4) Officer Dumbshit IS TRAINED BY PHILLY PD using her Glock. 5) Officer Dumbshit IS CERTIFIED BY PHILLY PD & graduates from Police Academy. 6) Officer Dumbshit DISOBEYS basic handgun safety rules as well as Philly PD rules. 7) Officer Dumbshit "accidentally" shoots a kid in the head. Therefore the blame rests with... ... the gun of course.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 10:41:51 AM EDT
This is actually good news. If Philly gets rid of their Glocks they will all hit the used resale market (along with their pre-ban hi-caps). GunLvr
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 10:43:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 10:44:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 10:50:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Maddog50: With these safety habits, it would be safest to take away their ammo!
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Just issue deputy Fife one bullet - to be kept in a blouse pocket in case of need![:D]
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 10:53:47 AM EDT
Can you blame the children for requesting to see a real gun real close up? For many, the closest they ever got to a real gun was on television. It is just being a kid, naturally curious.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 11:00:22 AM EDT
One possible idea - if you are LEO and you have and AD - YOU ARE OFF THE FORCE, NO EXCEPTIONS.
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I don't agree with that. I've heard enough people here, that I like and trust, say they've had AD's sometime in their life that I think holding someone to the standard, that it ends their career if they have one, to be a bit overzealous. The city is not going to throw away their investment in an officer's hiring and training just because of one small accident. In my opinion, lying in court or on a citation is a much more serious offense. Start with the cops that lie on traffic tickets. Again, an accident is a less serious problem than repeated, premeditated dishonesty.z
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 11:00:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By warlord: Can you blame the children for requesting to see a real gun real close up? For many, the closest they ever got to a real gun was on television. It is just being a kid, naturally curious.
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I would indulge the kids, but only while following and demonstrating safe gun handling practices such as: "This is not a toy" Finding a safe backstop and talking about it. Unloading the weapon, and removing all ammunition. Keeping finger off the trigger, period.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 11:02:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Nojazz: I just sent them a nasty ass email on handgun safety!!! Thanks for the info!
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Let us know if you hear back from them. That ought to be interesting.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 11:07:26 AM EDT
[b]``What happened is that during a demonstration for her son's class, a child asked to see her weapon. She pulled it from her holster and it discharged, grazing the child,'' Lee said.[/b] What happened to the part about passing it around the classroom without the magazine (but one in the pipe I presume)???????????????????? Nuckles.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 11:11:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Nuckles: What happened to the part about passing it around the classroom without the magazine (but one in the pipe I presume)???????????????????? Nuckles.
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NO! Tell me that's not what happened!!! Is this true? I didn't see that part in the article. Where are you getting that from?
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 11:16:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 11:19:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2002 11:27:09 AM EDT by Nuckles]
From the Philadelphia Inquirer.... [b]Officials said the officer removed the clip from the weapon and then passed it among the children. Although a clip, which contains the bullets, is removed, a round can remain in the chamber unless it is removed separately. A girl who was among the 23 children in the classroom at the time of the incident, 9-year-old Aatiqah Johnson, said: "Everybody was passing it around." The weapon eventually was returned to the officer, but as she handled it, she dropped it. When the officer picked it up from the floor, it went off. The girl said there was a bang, and then she saw blood. "She accidentally pulled the trigger," said Aatiqah, as she was leaving school holding hands with her mother, Melita Johnson. Other students said they were told to return to their rooms after the incident as police descended on the campus on the 5600 block of Greene Street. Chiodetti said that when the officer attempted to put the clip back into the gun, it discharged. The bullet ricocheted off the floor and grazed Reeves' right cheek. "The gun should not have been pulled out," Chiodetti added.[/b] Nuckles.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 11:26:04 AM EDT
It's amazing how the pistol [b]forced[/b] the officer to draw it from it's holster so it could fire itself at a room full of children. I guess the VPC is right; guns are [b]evil[/b]
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 11:30:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 308wood: The problem is the safety catch. all they have to do is redesign it and the Glocks will be a safe pistol. we just need to move it form the trigger to the slide like most other pistols.
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What are you 12? Or just really dumb?
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 11:35:34 AM EDT
Don't sweat it guys, Philly PD will be lucky to be able to afford any Glocks after the parents of the kids in that class get done suing them. It truly pisses me off when I think about all those dumb shits carrying firearms around who have not a clue how to handle them yet want to tell me how I should handle mine. Same is true whether you're talking about guns, driving, or whatever. It also pisses me off that cops have access to so many NFA-type weapons that the general public is not trusted to have.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 11:51:08 AM EDT
Hey guys, remember that ABC and Reuters are ANTI-GUN! Look at what they ending statements are: "many police dept's are abandoning" (in reference to the Glocks). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I beleive Glock has about a 46% share of the Law Enforcement Sales! Secondly, the "touchy trigger". Well, like it's been posted here, finger off the trigger! Let's be realistic...there are a lot of cops whose first exposure to a gun and "safe" gun handling were when they went into the police academy, then they only shoot/clean the guns once or twice a year when they have to qualify. Obviously, the "Cop" here is an idiot. But also, this is a subtle way for the media to say that "GUNS ARE INHERENTLY DANGEROUS IN AND OF THEMSELVES...IF "HIGHLY" TRAINED POLICE OFFICERS DEAL WITH "TOUCHY" TRIGGERS ALL THE TIME, EVEN THEY CAN HAVE ACCIDENTS...CAN YOU IMAGINE AN UNTRAINED CIVILIAN HANDLING A GUN!" This is what this bullshit article by ABC and Reuters is subtly hinting at!
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 12:06:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ken2483: But also, this is a subtle way for the media to say that "GUNS ARE INHERENTLY DANGEROUS IN AND OF THEMSELVES...IF "HIGHLY" TRAINED POLICE OFFICERS DEAL WITH "TOUCHY" TRIGGERS ALL THE TIME, EVEN THEY CAN HAVE ACCIDENTS...CAN YOU IMAGINE AN UNTRAINED CIVILIAN HANDLING A GUN!" This is what this bullshit article by ABC and Reuters is subtly hinting at!
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Good point! I have never thought about in that context.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 12:08:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 12:10:09 PM EDT
I wonder if this was a Glock with the "New York" trigger? Glock makes a special set of trigger parts that kicks the trigger weight up to around 8 pounds or so. HoldHard
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 12:10:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2002 12:21:02 PM EDT by 308wood]
All I am saying is we need to make the guns safer. An extra external safety or two would make the gun safe for unsafe cops. We don’t have the time or funds to properly train the police proper gun handling. We must rely on gun manufacturers to provide safe deadly weapons that will only kill when they’re supposed to. Take the ASP baton. It doesn’t automatically extend and strike someone just because the cop holds it the wrong way. All guns should be like this. You should have to push the trigger and whip the gun toward and away from the target to make it fire. This was not the cop’s fault. It can’t be. They are here to protect us and if they can be found liable for hurting us the whole system will break down and we will be better off without them.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 12:19:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2002 12:21:07 PM EDT by SomeGuyInAHat]
Careful, 308Wood. Without proper use of icons and animations, nobody will catch the sarcasm.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 12:27:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 308wood: The problem is the safety catch. all they have to do is redesign it and the Glocks will be a safe pistol. we just need to move it form the trigger to the slide like most other pistols.
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I REALLY hope this is an attempt at humor [>:/]
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 12:45:31 PM EDT
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