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I have a very simple theory. Four balls caused the USSR to fall. Two that belonged to Reagan two that belonged to Margaret Thatcher.
CAMPYBob - Your silly ass statement about JFK was revolting. Where was he when the Cuban freedom fighters needed air support at the Bay of Pigs? His kissing the ass of the Soviets during the missile crisis probably extended the Cold War for 20 years. He should have listened to his military people and took Castro out when he had the opportunity. |
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"JFK stood toe-to-toe with Krushchev over the missiles of October? Don't make me laugh!"
he didn't make fidel and nikita laugh. "He and brother Bobby were furiously trying to undo the mess that their own shennanigans had gotten the US into!" to "which" mess are you referencing? b.o.p.? if so, that mess started long before jfk stood watch...besides, that marilyn was cause for distraction! "You need to read Seymour M. Hersh's book on JFK, The Dark Side of Camelot, to see what I'm talking about." i've only read pieces parts. i do need to sit down and give it a serious look. "Course, it's no secret!" "what" is no secret? "Hey, whatever happened to those Jupiter missiles that the US had stationed in Turkey?" tit for tat diplomacy, i believe it's called. you don't shit in my back yard and i won't shit in yours. sound fair. at best a red herreing, herr hun. do you know the operational time advantage and added accuracy those gave us...figure the world sees 15 minutes more or less sunlight and the point is mute. of greter import, we kept our listening posts in turkey. misiles? we had them coming out the ying yang and based on everything from railcars, trucks and subs to lord only knows what else. in quantity and quality, you might say we had the outgunned and surrounded, as it were. "Oh, right, they were the 'price' the US had to pay for JFK's monkeyshines in Cuba!" you gonna play, you gonna pay. in a zero sum game the "price" was negligable. history has born this out. Eric The(SomeColdWarrior!)Hun campy the (i "hid" in the school hallway, too) bob |
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Post from CAMPYBOB -
tit for tat diplomacy, i believe it's called. you don't shit in my back yard and i won't shit in yours. sound fair. at best a red herreing, herr hun. View Quote Yes, and a piece of foul work that was never revealed to the American Public, who would have been shocked, shocked I tell you, that their fare lad was so disingenuous! Yes, he stood up, brave and bold, to the Soviet Bear, all the while handing the bear sugar cookies! What a crock! And the Bay of Pigs was [u]certainly[/u] JFK's problem! The Eisenhower Administration had begun the planning, and yet, Kennedy, who via briefings from a CIA chum knew all about the plans, chided Vice-President Richard Nixon in debate and speeches that the Administration wasn't doing anything about 'Cuber.' Nixon, well aware of the plans, was unable to answer his opponent's accusations without revealing the existence of the invasion plans! So Kennedy used the intelligence he received in a very unethical, if not seditious, manner! When the Kennedy Brothers, shaking in their loafers, called off the second air strike against the rallying communist troops coming to oppose the Bay of Pigs invasion, the Alabama Air National Guard pilots, four men with wives and children at home, realized the grave situation facing the invaders on the beach! They disobeyed orders, reloded their B-26s with fuel, ammo and bombs, and took off for the second air strike against the Cuban forces. It was a flight from which these brave men never returned, being shot down by Cuban AA fire. When Bobby heard the news that the two B-26s had been shot down over the mainland of Cuba, he burst into his brother's office with the words: "Those goddamned bastards better be dead!" Imagine, if you will, the Attorney General of the United States, himself the father of six children, actively wishing for the deaths of four American patriots, who were there at his brother's express bidding, and who left behind children of their own! Burn in Hell, Bobby![}:D] But the Kennedy Adminsitration didn't just stop there, they actively sought the denial and the continued denial of any survivor benefits for the families of the dead heroes. And this denial and refusal went on long after JFK was dead, so diligent was Bobby in protecting the illusion of Camelot! Do you reckon those poor Alabama families have photos of Jack and Bobby on the walls in their family room? Eric The(ISincerelyDoubtIt!)Hun[>]:)] |
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I'm curious about those that criticize JFK's handling of the Cuban missle crisis. The missles were removed from Cuba and we averted a nuclear war. Is there a better scenario that could have resulted?
You are aware the Russian ground commanders in Cuba were authorized to repel an American ground invasion with the use of tactical nukes? I'm wondering what the U.S. response to that might have been. As for the Jupiter missles in Turkey, they were indeed obsolete when Kennedy offered them as a concession. The development of solid fuel ICBMs made all liquid fuel ICBMs obsolete. The Bay of Pigs is a difficult call. It was a collosal quagmire created by the CIA and inherited by Kennedy. He should have pulled the plug on it, it had not a rat's ass chance of being successful whether or not the invaders had air support. Just my $0.02 |
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It was Blue Jeans, Rock and Roll and MTV that brought the soviet Union to its knee. Reagan just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Communism was and is a dieing form of government.
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Post from marvl -
I'm curious about those that criticize JFK's handling of the Cuban missle crisis. The missles were removed from Cuba and we averted a nuclear war. Is there a better scenario that could have resulted? View Quote By not having the crisis occur in the first place! The Jupiter missiles were scheduled to be removed anyway, but the Kennedy Administration deliberately deceived the American Public by hiding that part of the 'deal' worked out with Moscow, using the 'back channel.' It was the Kennedy Brothers secretive use of the 'back channel' that contributed to the crisis in the first place. Hersh's book says it all. Eric The(Camelot,MyAss!)Hun[>]:)] |
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"Yes, and a piece of foul work that was never revealed to the American Public, who would have been shocked, shocked I tell you, that their fare lad was so disingenuous!"
probably so. marilyn, the mob and a few other items on the dirty laundry list may have shocked them moreso. "Yes, he stood up, brave and bold, to the Soviet Bear, all the while handing the bear sugar cookies! What a crock!" what would you suggest he did? playing stud poker with nukes is serious. i find little fault in his handling of the matter. he stood as steadfast as ron did, imo. "And the Bay of Pigs was certainly JFK's problem! The Eisenhower Administration had begun the planning, and yet, Kennedy, who via briefings from a CIA chum knew all about the plans, chided Vice-President Richard Nixon in debate and speeches that the Administration wasn't doing anything about 'Cuber.'" cuber! i love it! good one! jack was, afterall, a professional politician. what would you have him saying in such a role? "Nixon, well aware of the plans, was unable to answer his opponent's accusations without revealing the existence of the invasion plans!" that is a non-sequiter. there was plenty he could have spouted back...afterall, dickie was a professional politician, also (as well as a professional liar!). "So Kennedy used the intelligence he received in a very unethical, if not seditious, manner!" sedicious? i think you are exaggerating a wee bit, here. ethics...politics...in the same post? hmmmm. "They disobeyed orders, reloded their B-26s with fuel, ammo and bombs, and took off for the second air strike against the Cuban forces." note: the operational phrase, "they disobeyed orders". It was a flight from which these brave men never returned, being shot down by Cuban AA fire. When Bobby heard the news that the two B-26s had been shot down over the mainland of Cuba, he burst into his brother's office with the words: "Those goddamned bastards better be dead!" and his reaction to men who disobeyed an order should have been? "Imagine, if you will, the Attorney General of the United States, himself the father of six children, actively wishing for the deaths of four American patriots, who were there at his brother's express bidding, and who left behind children of their own!" imagine, if you will, grown men bayonetting each other to death in battle. what is your point? "Burn in Hell, Bobby!" as a catholic, he may have had an inside track to the pearly gates! "But the Kennedy Adminsitration didn't just stop there, they actively sought the denial and the continued denial of any survivor benefits for the families of the dead heroes." as have presidents/adminstrations long before and after. "And this denial and refusal went on long after JFK was dead, so diligent was Bobby in protecting the illusion of Camelot!" the truth came out. it almost always does. "Do you reckon those poor Alabama families have photos of Jack and Bobby on the walls in their family room?" i recon you might have an autographed 8x10 of ron and nancy on your mantle...heheheh! "Eric The(ISincerelyDoubtIt!)Hun" campy the (no man is as good or as bad as we would be lead to believe) bob |
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kennedy, the philanderer, was at the least a war hero and veteran.
ronald, the great american speachreader, did "what" during ww-2? oh...that's right...he made movies. flash, hindsight is 20-20. re-read the invasion of cuba. then tell me what you would have estimated the success rate as, even with support. the operation was fubar from the get go. |
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perhaps the vitriol should be directed at the planners. things went wrong from the first stages to the end.
The counterrevolutionary forces, known as Brigade 2506, were assembled at Retalhuleu, on the west coast of Guatemala, where U.S. engineers refurbished the airport especially for the mission. On April 14 six ships sailed from Nicaragua’s Puerto Cabezas, cheered on by Nicaraguan president and U.S.-friendly dictator Luis Somoza, who jokingly urged the soldiers to bring him some hairs from Castro’s beard. The Cuban government knew an invasion was coming, but could not guess exactly when or where the attack would take place. When teams of U.S. B-26 bombers began attacking four Cuban airfields simultaneously on Saturday, April 15, the Cubans were prepared. The few planes belonging to the Cuban Air Force were dispersed and camouflaged, with some obsolete, unusable planes left out to fool the attackers and draw the bombs. As part of the CIA cover story, the attacking B-26 planes were disguised to look as if they were Cuban planes flown by defecting Cuban pilots. An exile Cuban pilot named Mario Zúñiga was presented to the media as a defector, and was photographed next to his plane. The photo was published in most of the major papers, but the surprising omission of several serious details, and the overwhelming amount of information already gathered by reporters, helped bring out the truth much sooner than anyone expected. Prior to the start of the operation, CIA operatives were sent to Cuba. Their job was to aid the invading forces by blowing up key bridges and performing other acts of terrorism that would make it appear that the people of Cuba were joining the invasion. José Basulto was one of those operatives. He flew straight into Havana airport posing as a student from Boston College coming home on vacation. Shortly after the attack started, Ambassador Adlai Stevenson, at the United Nations, flatly rejected Cuba’s Minister of Foreign Affairs Raúl Roa’s report of the attack to the assembly, saying that the planes were from the Cuban Air Force and presenting a copy of the photograph published in the newspapers. In the photo, the plane shown has an opaque nose, whereas the model of the B-26 planes used by the Cubans had a Plexiglas nose. Stevenson was extremely embarrassed a few hours later when the truth was revealed and he learned that Kennedy had referred to him as “my official liar.” |
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The landing began shortly before midnight on Sunday, April 16, after a team of frogmen went ashore and set up landing lights to guide the operation. The invading force consisted of 1,500 men divided into six battalions, with right-winger and CIA-friendly Manuel Artime as the political chief.
Two battalions came ashore at Playa Girón and one at Playa Larga, but the operation didn’t go as smoothly as expected. The razor-sharp coral reefs, identified by U2 spy photos as seaweed, delayed the landing enough to expose it to air attacks the following morning. Two ships sank about 80 yards from shore, and some heavy equipment was lost. Cuban militia commander José Ramón González Suco was one of five men stationed in Playa Larga when the invasion began. He was the first to report the invasion. On Monday, April 17, as the invasion was well under way, U.S. Secretary of State Dean Rusk gave a press conference. “The American people are entitled to know whether we are intervening in Cuba or intend to do so in the future,” he said. “The answer to that question is no. What happens in Cuba is for the Cuban people to decide.” Basulto was never told when the invasion would take place. He was surprised to hear the attack had started and didn’t have time to get around to blowing up the bridge he’d been assigned. He drove out to Guantánamo and jumped the fence to the U.S. Naval Base. By 3 a.m. Monday morning Castro knew about the landing, and the Cuban government responded almost immediately, taking a superior position in the air during the early morning hours. Cuban pilot Captain Enrique Carreras Rojas was able to quickly sink the command vessel “Maropa” and the supply ship “Houston.” Once Ambassador Stevenson became aware of the true facts, he was so outraged at being duped that he publicly urged Washington to stop the attack and avoid further embarrassment. Soviet Ambassador Zorin said, “Cuba is not alone today. Among her most sincere friends the Soviet Union is to be found.” At 12:15 Kennedy received a letter from Khrushchev, in which the Soviet leader stated: “It is a secret to no one that the armed bands invading this country were trained, equipped and armed in the United States of America. The planes which are bombing Cuban cities belong to the United States of America; the bombs they are dropping are being supplied by the American Government. “…It is still not late to avoid the irreparable. The government of the USA still has the possibility of not allowing the flame of war ignited by interventions in Cuba to grow into an incomparable conflagration. |
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The expected supporting air cover by the U.S. Air Force never came. In a political environment full of posturing, threats and confusion, Rusk advised Kennedy to back off, concluding that additional strikes would tilt international opinion too far against the U.S.
“At about 9:30 p.m. on April 16,” describes L. Fletcher Prouty in BAY OF PIGS: THE PIVOTAL OPERATION OF THE JFK ERA, [URL below] “Mr. McGeorge Bundy, Special Assistant to the President, telephoned the CIA’s General C.P. Cabell to inform him that the air strikes the following dawn should not be launched until they could be conducted from a strip within the beachhead.” Prouty, the first “focal Point” officer between the CIA and the Air Force for Clandestine Operations, quotes the report by General Maxwell Taylor, a member of the Kennedy-appointed Cuban Study Group: “From its inception the plan had been developed under the ground rule that it must retain a covert character, that is, it should include no action which, if revealed, could not be plausibly denied by the United States and should look to the world as an operation exclusively conducted by Cubans. This ground rule meant, among other things, that no U.S. military forces or individuals could take part in combat operations.” were stevenson, rusk, et al correct in their advice to jfk? what were the consequences of doing otherwise at that point? indeed, hindsight is 20-20. |
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Quoted: kennedy, the philanderer, was at the least a war hero and veteran. ronald, the great american speachreader, did "what" during ww-2? oh...that's right...he made movies. View Quote Reagan did serve in the military in WWII as a commissioned officer. Yes, he did make movies - for the military. He tried to join the "real" army, but was prevented from doing so by a physical disability (eyes IIRC). |
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true, ron served as best he could. i wonder how many guys with worse eyesight served? jfk was no slouch, though. that was my point.
kennedy is being portrayed as somehow weak on communism. i do not think that is the case. he escalated our involvement in vietnam. i believe he did his share. |
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Wow, CAMPYBOB, you gave me the green light to wax eloquently on my hero again! How very thoughtful!
Where to begin? Hun: "Yes, he stood up, brave and bold, to the Soviet Bear, all the while handing the bear sugar cookies! What a crock!" View Quote what would you suggest he did? playing stud poker with nukes is serious. i find little fault in his handling of the matter. he stood as steadfast as ron did, imo. View Quote What you may not know is that in May, 1961, JFK, against the best advice of his military advisors and against the strenuous objections of Krushchev, had approved operational status for the first fifteen medium-range Jupiter missiles in Turkey. The weapons had been ordered there by Eisenhower in the waning days of his administration, but were nonoperational. Kennedy ordered them to be put into service and offered Krushchev the explanation that the missiles were 'defensive in nature.' Now by September, 1962, alerted by intelligence reports of strange deliveries, Kennedy had asked and received assurances from Krushchev that nothing more than 'defensive weapons' were being sent by the Soviets to Cuba. Krushchev had learned that 'defensive' had a very broad definition to the Americans and had no qualms about using it to describe Soviet weapons in Cuba! As early as August, 1962, CIA Director John McCone had informed JFK that there were missiles on the ground in Cuba. JFK had Bobby check this information out with Georgi Bolshakov, the Kennedy Brothers' 'back channel' to the Kremlin. When Bolshakov came back with the assurances that 'defensive weapons only' were being sent to Cuba, the President chose to believe a renegade, known Soviet operative rather than the Director of the CIA!!!!! How clever was that? When Kennedy learned the truth through the US reconnaissance overflights of the Island, rather than take the route suggested by the US State Department - confront the Soviet ambassador privately with the evidence and demand, privately, that the missiles be dismantled and taken away, Kennedy went public! By confronting Gromyko privately, the President would have been able to do what any great leader would have done - give your enemy the opportunity to save face and retreat! But Kennedy would have none of that, and so plunged the world into the perilous time that has come to be known as the Cuban Missile Crisis. BTW, Kennedy folded like a cheap suit when the Soviets refused to toe the line he drew in the sand! After the initial surprise at learning the missiles had been discovered, Krushchev was able to wring from the Kennedy Boys much, much more than he would have been able to have reasonable hoped! A promise by the US never to invade Cuba, and the removal of the Jupiter missiles in Turkey! So who won this engagement? (Yeah, right!) - continued - |
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Hun:"Nixon, well aware of the plans, was unable to answer his opponent's accusations without revealing the existence of the invasion plans!" View Quote CAMPYBOB: that is a non-sequiter. there was plenty he could have spouted back...afterall, dickie was a professional politician, also (as well as a professional liar!). View Quote Such as 'You're wrong Mr. Kennedy, at this very moment the President is considering a plan to invade Cuba and overthrow the Castro Government'? Nixon may have been a liar on numerous occasions, but his patriotism cannot be questioned. He sat there, dumbfounded, and unable to answer Kennedy's allegations that nothing was being done. And Kennedy [u]knew[/u] better! But he was not nearly so patriotic that he wouldn't use that bit of information to his own advantage, even if it could have compromised the plans! Hun: "So Kennedy used the intelligence he received in a very unethical, if not seditious, manner!" View Quote sedicious? i think you are exaggerating a wee bit, here. ethics...politics...in the same post? hmmmm. View Quote I have no idea what 'sedicious' means, but the word I used meant that Kennedy was not above using sensitive and secret information to his own political advantage, notwithstanding the fact that it may have harmed US interests! Any questions? Hun: "They disobeyed orders, reloded their B-26s with fuel, ammo and bombs, and took off for the second air strike against the Cuban forces." View Quote CAMPBOB: note: the operational phrase, "they disobeyed orders". View Quote Not their [u]original orders[/u]! And they should be permitted to suppose that those back in Washington were unaware of the grave situation on the ground back in Cuba! So do you feel that it's perfectly all right and proper to turn your back on brothers in arms and leave them unprotected in harm's way, just because someone in DC decided it was the thing to do? Remind me to never have you guarding my rear! Hun: "When Bobby heard the news that the two B-26s had been shot down over the mainland of Cuba, he burst into his brother's office with the words: "Those goddamned bastards better be dead!" View Quote CAMPYBOB: and his reaction to men who disobeyed an order should have been? View Quote That he and his brother should have dropped all pretense of being the President of the United States and the Attorney General and admitted that they were simply the Kennedy Boys, looking out for Number 1 and Number 2! They were not patriots, and despite JFK's war record, they were jerks! Why did they continue to vehemently oppose any benefits to the widows and children survivors of those Alabama Air National Guard pilots? [b]'To serve and protect' the Kennedy Legacy![/b] Sounds like another ex-president we all know and loathe! - continued - |
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Hun: "Imagine, if you will, the Attorney General of the United States, himself the father of six children, actively wishing for the deaths of four American patriots, who were there at his brother's express bidding, and who left behind children of their own!" View Quote CAMPYBOB: imagine, if you will, grown men bayonetting each other to death in battle. what is your point? View Quote That Bobby Kennedy valued the reputation of his brother and himself, the honor of his family, more than the honor of the men who served under the President of the United States and were doing the very tasks that the Kennedys had ordered them to do, and more than any natural feelings that a man with a wife and children should normally feel upon hearing of the deaths of four other men with wives and children! Hun: "Burn in Hell, Bobby!" View Quote CAMPYBOB: as a catholic, he may have had an inside track to the pearly gates! View Quote Not if his sins were mortal! and I sincerely believe them to have been mortal sins! And I am certain that there are many good families among the widows and orphans of the Bay of Pigs who conclude their prayers with just such a request as mine! Hun: "But the Kennedy Adminsitration didn't just stop there, they actively sought the denial and the continued denial of any survivor benefits for the families of the dead heroes." View Quote CAMPBOB: as have presidents/adminstrations long before and after. View Quote Give some examples, if you please! Hun: "And this denial and refusal went on long after JFK was dead, so diligent was Bobby in protecting the illusion of Camelot!" View Quote CAMPYBOB: the truth came out. it almost always does. View Quote Yes, it does, but through no effort by Bobby to redeem his worthless soul! "Foul deeds will rise, though all the world o'erwhelm them, to men's eyes'- W. Shakespeare. CAMPBOB: i recon you might have an autographed 8x10 of ron and nancy on your mantle...heheheh! View Quote Yes, but only of President Reagan, not Nancy.[:D] campy the (no man is as good or as bad as we would be lead to believe) bob View Quote Not even Osama Bin Laden, not even Jerry Falwell, not even McUzi? Eric The(ThereIsSomethingRottenInCamelot)Hun[>]:)] |
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"That Bobby Kennedy valued the reputation of his brother and himself, the honor of his family, more than the honor of the men who....."
yes...a true son of joe, we would agree on that! "No if his sins were mortal!..." it was a joke! i have no pretensions to divine the afterlife! "Give some examples, if you please!" soldiers pensions in arrears here...from the revolutionary war: http://www.mindspring.com/~sistler/military.html agent orange...thousands dead with no gov't help...only denial and more denial: http://www.lewispublishing.com/orange.htm 50 years of denial: http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Nov1999/n11221999_9911225.html from the days of "just stay on this here reservation" to "40 acres and a mule" to "if you are caugt, we will disavow any knowledge of..." our government has used lies and deception to its' own ends. gimme a little time...i;ll dig you up something. seems we disenfranchised a few, just this past election...guess we can't blame that one on jack! "Foul deeds will rise, though all the world o'erwhelm them, to men's eyes'- W. Shakespeare. uh..."romeo, romeo...where fart thou, romeo?"- toots shabinowvitz, 1973 CAMPBOB: i recon you might have an autographed 8x10 of ron and nancy on your mantle...heheheh! Yes, but only of President Reagan, not Nancy. am i good...or what?!?! "Not even Osama Bin Laden, not even Jerry Falwell, not even McUzi?" lol! well...that mcuzi fella as an example may be hitting below the belt! heheheh! Eric The(ThereIsSomethingRottenInCamelot)Hun campy the (didn't billy write a play about demark?) bob |
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Can somebody explain to me how a 40+kt PT boat gets run over by a 30kt destroyer in the middle of the open sea?
And how come the skipper wasn't court-martialled? Maybe it was just a coincidence that the USN officer who wrote the report on the sinking of PT109 was appointed to the US Supreme Court by...You guessed it, JFK. Read down a bit...[url]http://www.realbooks.com/reviews/0809/manwhoonce.htm[/url] |
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Quoted: Can somebody explain to me how a 40+kt PT boat gets run over by a 30kt destroyer in the middle of the open sea? And how come the skipper wasn't court-martialled? Maybe it was just a coincidence that the USN officer who wrote the report on the sinking of PT109 was appointed to the US Supreme Court by...You guessed it, JFK. Read down a bit...[url]http://www.realbooks.com/reviews/0809/manwhoonce.htm[/url] View Quote 40 knot speed was a goal, not neccesarily obtainable in real life. My understanding is the gas most PT's actually ran on was much lower octane than the gas 40 knots was "doable" on. Also those engines required alot of tuning to keep them up to speed. More weapons and ammo also meant lower speeds. Not to mention whatever might grow on the lower side of the boat. If you are on the sea in the dark and you are on a dark boat without radar how easy is it to sea another boat, also darkened coming at you?? On the other hand supposedly no one was on watch on the PT boat. The short answer, your "epic" survival story overshadows the cause of the crash....... |
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Pardon for coming in so late, but I have an interesting story to relate.
In my last job, part of my responsibilities was to give tours, especially to forgein visitors. After the curtain fell, one of the tours (arranged by the state department) was for the some former soviet scientists. We were about 1750 feet beneath the surface when the "state" department guides and the soviet "bodyguards" were out of earshot, I asked the leading scientist (department head at one of the Universities) why the curtain fell he said, "Star Wars" " After Reagan anounced the Star Wars missile defense program, Gorbachev asked all senior scientists the following: Can the Americans do it? If it is possible, how long before it is functioning? What are our defenses against it? Can we build one? It took me several weeks before I responded. 1) Yes, the Americans are capable of building the system. 2) Prototypes would be online within a decade. 3) Build three times our current inventory on nuclear weapons or strike them before it is functioning. 4) No" The scientist then said Gorby called him for a personal consultation. The scientist repeated his answers. Gorby said that the economy could not stand tripling the weapons inventory. Gorby asked for other options. The scientist repeated the first strike option. Gorby said not only wouldn't he start a nuclear war he wouldn't allow his successor to start one. The scientist asked what were the other options. Gorby said "You will know in a few weeks. The whole world will know." Based on my impression, the scientist was telling the truth. SRM |
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CAMPYBOB
I believe that in the early '60s the US could have taken out Castro. I have also heard that at the time of the crisis the USSR had about 60 deliverable nucs while we had over 1500. The balance of power was so heavy in our favor that the USSR would never have gone to war over Cuba. NATO has always been able to defend against a Soviet invasion of Europe. We had a much stronger navy and a much better air force. As far as the battle in Cuba why would anyone risk using nucs against a foe that also had them? We would have won, had fewer causalities than you expect and would have set the commies back tremendously. It took balls to stand up to the Soviets and their puppets in Cuba. Reagan had them, Jack and Bobby were more interested in getting nukie than standing up for freedom. It did not have to be a "zero sum" game. We could have won if Kenndy had the guts. Thank God that Reagan didn't belive in zero sum. We would still be arguing over what to with the commies in Central America. |
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