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Posted: 3/17/2001 7:37:55 AM EDT
Hey Guys, I have had a SS Mini 14 in the safe for at least 10 years. It has a Choate Side Folder and a pinned on Flash Hider/Front Sight combination. I am considering moving this thing at the gun show next weekend. Based on the huge price difference between pre vs. post AR's, I would think that a low prefix number Mini 14 would bring a few more dollars than a post ban model. Have you guys noticed this being the case? Thanks, Joe
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 7:53:31 AM EDT
NO.......
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 8:00:10 AM EDT
joe, preban does not apply to minis as to other rifles ( i know i can find people to argue this one) but it depends on where and who, you can still get a decent$ for it depending on condition. personally, i would be willing to give a little more for it in oem condition. i can get one as you describe right now for $275......[:)]
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 8:01:36 AM EDT
Unless you have one of the GB models (factory flash suppressor, factory bayonet lug) no one will pay a dime more for a low serial number on a standard mini. There simply is no collector value.
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 8:33:58 AM EDT
Well, it does matter in as much as you can put all those "evil features" on a pre '94 Mini that you cannot put on a post '94 Mini.
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 9:07:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2001 11:22:29 PM EDT by Cope]
[b]Well, it does matter in as much as you can put all those "evil features" on a pre '94 Mini that you cannot put on a post '94 Mini.[/b] That is the angle I was considering. From what I am reading, some of you guys are telling me that I can [i]legally[/i] buy a NIB mini and slap a folding stock and flash hider on it? If so, I wouldn't want to buy a second hand rifle either. If not, some guy new to assault rifles may highly desire the capability to install these eveil features. In my mind, the same principles should apply to the mini that apply to the AR. I sure as hell didn't enjoy spending $1550 on my all Colt M4gery, when I could have easily spent half as much on a quality post ban. Evidently I am missing something in the laws pertaining to the Rugers??? Thanks for the feedback guys, Joe
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 9:20:56 AM EDT
joe, then i am missing something also, since i do not see the same thing here as a question of legality. that in itself does not make the rifle worth any more, unless as i said, you find the right person at the right time. it`s all in what you want/willing to pay for. i witnessed the same arguement one day in a local shop.guess what, the mini guy didn`t get any extra value because of what he called "pre ban" status. not telling you you can "legally" do anything. personally, i`d check the blue book! take care.....
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 9:24:32 AM EDT
Agree. Unless you can find the right guy, the pre-ban will not go for much more. All the extra accesories you have on it might get you a better price. I bought mine for $600 right after the assualt ban and let it go for peanuts. [sniper]
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 10:00:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2001 10:12:40 AM EDT by Cope]
At this rate, the factory high cap mags I have are worth more than the rifle. If memory serves, I paid $350 for this thing back when I first graduated from college. It came with one factory 30 round mag. If I can't get $500 out of it with an aftermarket mag, I will keep it for a rainy day. I've already seen that I would do much better by selling the factory mags seperate. Thanks for the feedback guys. I just wish I could buy the preban AR's at Blue Book Value. :^( Joe P.S. Wish me luck in finding that right guy. LOL
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 10:41:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tcsd1236: Well, it does matter in as much as you can put all those "evil features" on a pre '94 Mini that you cannot put on a post '94 Mini.
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Sorry but I must respectfully disagree. Whether or not a standard Mini-14 was manufactured before '94 would make no difference as to the legality of adding "assault weapon" features, or it's value. If you were to add a folding stock, bayonet lug, flash suppresor, etc. AFTER the ban on a rifle that previously did not have those features, you would then be MANUFACTURING an assault weapon and it therefore would be ILLEGAL under the law. However if the rifle had these features installed BEFORE the ban it would then be legal. The only "preban" Mini that might really have increased value would be a GB w/factory folder & flash suppresor/bayonet lug. Choate & other companies no longer manufacture folding stocks for Mini-14's or even 10-22's for that matter, as to install one would be illegal except to replace one on a rifle that already had one before the ban. Not trying to flame, I use to have a Mini myself.
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 3:24:12 PM EDT
Pre-ban does mean something legally on a Mini-14, and you may actually get someone to give you some more cash than you paid for it, but not very likely. Mini's don't seem to be quite so popular anymore, especially since the supply of pre-ban mags dried up around last new year's. Most people seem to prefer paying for a post-ban AR so that they can get cheap parts and mags.
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 6:44:02 PM EDT
BTIP has it exactly right.
Originally Posted By btip:
Originally Posted By tcsd1236: Well, it does matter in as much as you can put all those "evil features" on a pre '94 Mini that you cannot put on a post '94 Mini.
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Sorry but I must respectfully disagree. Whether or not a standard Mini-14 was manufactured before '94 would make no difference as to the legality of adding "assault weapon" features, or it's value. If you were to add a folding stock, bayonet lug, flash suppresor, etc. AFTER the ban on a rifle that previously did not have those features, you would then be MANUFACTURING an assault weapon and it therefore would be ILLEGAL under the law. However if the rifle had these features installed BEFORE the ban it would then be legal. The only "preban" Mini that might really have increased value would be a GB w/factory folder & flash suppresor/bayonet lug. Choate & other companies no longer manufacture folding stocks for Mini-14's or even 10-22's for that matter, as to install one would be illegal except to replace one on a rifle that already had one before the ban. Not trying to flame, I use to have a Mini myself.
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Link Posted: 3/17/2001 7:22:39 PM EDT
Not to flame, but the law says that a gun that was in kit configuration can legally be put back that way. Who the hell is gonna know that it's owner at the time didn't have a flash hider with it? I'm not advocating breaking the law, but it would be easy to say it was like that before '94.
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 10:27:07 PM EDT
Btip: Yeah, I know that part of the law...but like Southern said, who's gonna know. The serial numbersa dead giveaway , though.
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 11:32:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2001 11:55:45 PM EDT by Cope]
btip,
If you were to add a folding stock, bayonet lug, flash suppresor, etc. AFTER the ban on a rifle that previously did not have those features, you would then be MANUFACTURING an assault weapon and it therefore would be ILLEGAL under the law.
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Let's suppose a guy goes out and buys a blue label Colt Sporter which does not have a bayo lug on it. The guy then picks up a Green Label upper with the lug and installs it on his blue label lower. Is this illegal? For that matter, what if another guy buys a Preban Bushmaster with an A1 or A2 stock, and decides he wants to install a collapsible stock in lieu of the fixed stock. Is this illegally manufacturing an assault weapon? If these two scenerios are illegal, I know that a bunch of guys around here are not up to snuff. Not being sarcastic at all with these questions. I am genuinely curious about the different ways that ALL these nutzy laws can be perceived. I am hoping that the answer is somewhat related to the fact that the weapon did, in fact, have at least 3 evil features prior to 94. (Already classifying it as an assault weapon). Adding a fourth or fifth feature shouldn't matter. Is that the case? Thanks.
Link Posted: 3/18/2001 12:05:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2001 12:39:38 AM EDT by Ulysse_Nardin_1846]
Originally Posted By Cope: btip,
If you were to add a folding stock, bayonet lug, flash suppresor, etc. AFTER the ban on a rifle that previously did not have those features, you would then be MANUFACTURING an assault weapon and it therefore would be ILLEGAL under the law.
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Let's suppose a guy goes out and buys a blue label Colt Sporter which does not have a bayo lug on it. The guy then picks up a Green Label upper with the lug and installs it on his blue label lower. Is this illegal? For that matter, what if another guy buys a Preban Bushmaster with an A1 or A2 stock, and decides he wants to install a collapsible stock in lieu of the fixed stock. Is this illegally manufacturing an assault weapon? If these two scenerios are illegal, I know that a bunch of guys around here are not up to snuff. Not being sarcastic at all with these questions. I am genuinely curious about the different ways that ALL these nutzy laws can be perceived. I am hoping that the answer is somewhat related to the fact that the weapon did, in fact, have at least 3 evil features prior to 94. (Already classifying it as an assault weapon). Adding a fourth or fifth feature shouldn't matter. Is that the case? Thanks.
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I have a pre94 6601 blue label and I had a shorty stock installed on it. Before the 94' ban but that does matter as the gun is a pre94' gun and it came from the factory with birdcage flash hider and no bayonet lug. Colt voluntarily removed the bayonet lug on the blue label 6601 before 94' and was not required by law to do so back then. They did it to make it look less menacing. Hell, it still looks menacing to me. I was going to put a 6721(16" bayonet lug, birdcage flash hider) upper on it. Now I'll put a M4 upper on it and it will be perfectly legal for me to do so. As for the pre94 Bushmaster scenario- Supposedly it had to have come out of the factory as a complete rifle before the Sep94 ban date in order for that guy to modify it in that way. Or built up into a complete rifle before the ban date. How the hell would someone know if they had a preban lower and put the damm thing together before the ban? If it left the factory as a lower and was not assembled into a complete rifle before the Sep94 ban, then supposedly it can't have any of the "evil" features on it. Has to be postban configuration. If you buy a preban lower only, contact the manufacturer to see if it left the factory as a complete rifle before Sep94 just to be safe. Of course some dude could have put the thing together before Sep94 but again, how the hell are you supposed to know? Some guys that have completely legit preban rifles are selling their lower only. If you verify that it was a complete weapon before the ban date, then you can replicate the preban configuration. Sounds weird but that's the way I see it. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Link Posted: 3/18/2001 12:50:19 AM EDT
Does anyone have a link or a list of what serial numbers were made when? There used to be a list on Ruger's website, but it's not there anymore. I've seen one somewhere else, but I can't remember where. Thanks.
Link Posted: 3/18/2001 1:53:15 AM EDT
I tried 2 search engines and they all came up dry. Where are all the mini14 enthusiasts on the web?
Link Posted: 3/18/2001 3:04:18 AM EDT
TRY MINI14 WORLD.COM. I FOUND THE SITE BY ACCIDENT THEY HAVE THE S/N LISTED BY DATE OF MANUFACTURE.
Link Posted: 3/18/2001 3:25:42 AM EDT
[url]http://www.sportables.com/Ruger_rifles.htm[/url] Based on this info, mine was made in 81.
Link Posted: 3/18/2001 9:18:12 AM EDT
Thanks. Looks like mine was made in 1985, which backs up the story my dealer gave me.[:)]
Link Posted: 3/25/2001 4:35:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2001 4:54:07 PM EDT by Cope]
I finally moved the Mini 14 today. I guess I could have done much worse. I had one factory mag, and 3 aftermarket mags with it. Wound up trading it for a Like New Stainless MK II slab side Target Model and $355 cash. I figure the pistol is worth $300 with the box, rings, base, and paperwork. I had a minimum of $600 in mind on the outfit, and wound up at $655. I guess that's a little better than I could have done if I sold it to Black&Green, eh? LOL Also traded 4 NIW Colt mags for a new Colt bolt/carrier. I had $25 in each mag, so I guess it was a decent trade. Joe
Link Posted: 3/25/2001 6:36:22 PM EDT
Cope, I've seen guns like yours at gun shows here in Minnesota with a pricetag in the $700.00-750.00 range. Ben
Link Posted: 3/25/2001 7:10:30 PM EDT
Not here to hurt anybody`s feelins`, dude...just call em` as i see em`!!!!( colt pre ban for $450...NO B/S..) Like i said...right place, right time...(good for you)....B&G.....[heavy]
Link Posted: 3/25/2001 7:22:39 PM EDT
B&G, You ready to double your money on that PreBan Colt? Just say the word. Give me the info on that mini for $275, and I'll buy it too. Seriously. I figure you will nab it up though. Be cool, :^) HH
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 8:39:56 PM EDT
So did you guys ever agree? I ended up buying one today.....Private....MANF 1979..Can I add any extra evil legally IF it doesnt have them???? Any 30 round magazine knowledge from you guys? This is my first mini..I dont know if I am keepin it or sellin/tradin it.... I see numerous mags (TAPCO, CDNN, gunaccessories.com) from numerous makers.... Are any of these good ones????
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 8:54:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CavVet: So did you guys ever agree? I ended up buying one today.....Private....MANF 1979..Can I add any extra evil legally IF it doesnt have them???? Any 30 round magazine knowledge from you guys? This is my first mini..I dont know if I am keepin it or sellin/tradin it.... I see numerous mags (TAPCO, CDNN, gunaccessories.com) from numerous makers.... Are any of these good ones????
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You can have a total of [b]TWO[/b] items. [b]Three[/b] makes an assult weapon. a detachable magazine a folding or telescoping stock. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. a bayonet mount. a flash suppressor or a threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor.
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 8:56:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By black&green: Not here to hurt anybody`s feelins`, dude...just call em` as i see em`!!!!( colt pre ban for $450...NO B/S..) Like i said...right place, right time...(good for you)....B&G.....[heavy]
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Next time that show's in town, let me know. I want a pre ban colt for $450. [:)]
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 8:57:35 PM EDT
Say it has 3...could I add the fourth??? any mag info?
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 8:58:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CavVet: Any 30 round magazine knowledge from you guys? This is my first mini..I dont know if I am keepin it or sellin/tradin it.... I see numerous mags (TAPCO, CDNN, gunaccessories.com) from numerous makers.... Are any of these good ones????
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If you wanna keep it get some 30 rnd thermolds for about $40. IMHO they are as good as the factory ones. I have 4 and like them alot (no malfunctions). People say that precision 30 rnd mags work ok. I have a few Stainless ones and they work ok execpt for one with a funny feed lip.
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 9:00:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CavVet: Say it has 3...could I add the fourth??? any mag info?
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you trying to be funny? LOL yes you can add more if indeed it is preban (GB model)
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 9:06:23 PM EDT
Only if its a "GB"
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 9:20:25 PM EDT
My first mini 14, I have NO clue what a GB is...I do know according to... [url]http://www.sportables.com/Ruger_rifles.htm[/url] it was made in 1979.... Is that a GB...???
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 9:36:36 PM EDT
cav vet: not sure about that but the GB had a facory flash hider and a factory bayo lug. of all the people I know who owns minis only two are GB's
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 10:08:27 PM EDT
Here is a picture of a GB. Yes it`s mine Factory Flash Supressor and Bayonet lug. They also had folding stocks but mine has the butler creek one. [img]content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=view_photo&ID_Community=TheRipper1&ID_Topic=1&ID_Message=29[/img]
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 5:38:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/27/2001 5:38:05 AM EDT by Cope]
GB or No GB. Big Woopididooo. If it is was made in 79, do whatever you want to with it. I just can't see why the laws would be any different than the ones that pertain to the AR. As far as name brands on the magazines, I can't give you the specifics. I can tell you, however, to look them over really well. Other than the factory mags, make sure the mags you buy have a "tab" welded on the back of them. This is what the mag release catches on. Some of the lesser quality mags simply have indents for the mag catch to go into. Not good, in my experience. Also, make darn sure the tab on the back of the mag is centered right to left. A friend of mine bought a mini that came with a mag that had an off centered tab welded on it. It was only very slightly visible, but the mag would NOT lock into place on either of our rifles. Also, the mag bodies of the factory mags are different than the aftermarket bodies I have seen. I saw a bunch of Ruger floorplates in an auction a couple weeks ago. Be careful, if you decide to pay $100+ for a factory mag. Here is what the factory mag that I recently sold looked like. [img]http://www.forthehunt.com/pixhost/2001-03-18/G.Pyle_984963490_Ruger2.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.forthehunt.com/pixhost/2001-03-18/G.Pyle_984963491_Ruger3.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.forthehunt.com/pixhost/2001-03-18/G.Pyle_984963492_Ruger4.jpg[/img] Notice the tab in the middle picture?
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 6:55:05 AM EDT
Cav vet....in answer to your question, i had already apologized to cope for my arrogance on another post....reason, i was in one of my frequented shops about three weeks ago, and hanging on the wall is a stainless mini, factory folder,factory 30 rounder (exactly like the one in the pics posted by cope) and upon seeing this, i immediatly thought of this "discussion". fact is, the dealer tells me the blue book avge for this gun is 1100...he`ll take 900....this from the same guy that sold the "beater" ranch gun for under 300...so, my right place/right time theory NOT being entirely correct, i felt that i owe joe an apology, and proceeded to do so....the whole thing is for me, obviosly i do not know everything about the "mini" market, and just because i personally would spend that much on something else, does not give liberty to bash anyone else.......[grenade]
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 7:10:30 AM EDT
Critter....the pre-ban for 450 IS a true and verifiable story.....my purpose for posting it was to support the "right place-right time" point i was trying to make.....don`t think the ffl guy who purchased the colt from his cash needing, somewhat niaeve customer, didn`t make sizeable profit on that one....certainly i would have jumped at it had i known, but the best part of the story is....my brother (also a ffl) was approached by the person first....he will not deal with "assault weapons" for his own reasons.....i told him to call me immediatly if anymore "deals" come along....( he did cringe at the thought of his competitor...so to speak...making 800 on the deal) i guess the profitable ffl guy sold it within three days....mt brother could`nt understand how he could sell it for that much...i told him he needs to get "into" the "assault gun" business!!!!!.............[frag]
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 9:08:29 AM EDT
MUCHO thanks to all of you guys........ Cope, I was thinkin what you said...94 was 94...good enough for an AR, good enough for a mini (laws)....YOUR MAG INFO IS VERY VALUABLE....I had NO CLUE....THANK YOU!!!!!! Black.....I only wondered IF you guys came to a unanimous agreement....? I am starting to think thats like asking if this board willl ever agree on ammo choice or upper extras....Thankx
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 11:17:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CavVet: Cope, I was thinkin what you said...94 was 94...good enough for an AR, good enough for a mini (laws)
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Not correct. A mini in pre 94 is the same as a mini now, no difference (except for the GB). AR`s on the other hand were configured as what we now call pre ban`s(assult weapons). The AR had to be changed in the way it was configured (postban). So the AR was an assult weapon and the mini was not. The law affected the AR but not the mini. So if you put those EVIL things on your mini you have created a new assult weapon. I dont agree with the law but thats the way it stands.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 12:14:36 PM EDT
RipMeyer, In my case, I DID personally install the flash hider in 92. The folding stock was already there from the previous owner. I suppose the previous owner, as well as myself, are both guilty of assembling an assault weapon? Is this what you are saying, or does this only apply to installing these items after 94? Seems like I remember a few years back talking to the guy whom CavVet recently bought his mini. The guy told me that he just finished tricking it out in early 94. Lucky for CV that the stuff was already on there, or he would be out of luck. [;)] Can we at least agree that this discussion is null and void if the weapon was made after 94?
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 1:38:40 PM EDT
I think what we can ALL agree on is what the moron politico`s know/don`t know about the 556 round and what delivers it!.......[heavy]
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 3:02:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 3:09:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 3:47:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cope: RipMeyer, or does this only apply to installing these items after 94?
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That is correct. But to tell you the truth I would not feel comfortable with a non GB "Preban" mini in assult weapon format. Why take the chance? And I think you could get into even more trouble selling one. This is open to alot of interpretation and dont care to debate it anymore. However the law seems very clear.[:D]
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 4:00:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 4:38:27 PM EDT
Mini 14 fans, here is some not so useful information. GB is an acronym for "Government Barrel". These had a front sight with a bayonet lug on the bottom, mounted about 2/3 down the length of the bbl. They also had a "birdcage" style flash suppressor on the muzzle. I beleive the barrel to be threaded, sure looks like it. I do know it's not pinned. I have a blued finish with a walnut stock, at present I have it on a "Galil" style side folding stock. Well that's my .223 cents worth. Doug
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 4:47:22 PM EDT
so is it clear as mud now? [:d] for mags, try thermolds if factory mags seem too expensive. thermolds work well for me. I have never tried the PMI brand because my thermolds work. here's an idea on other mags though. consider buying several 20rd stainless aftermarket mags, perhaps for $14 each. keep the ones that work, sell/trade off the ones that don't. if you get 50% good ones, that's equivalent to $28 good mags. p.s. my mini is a fixed-stock GB model. [:D]
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 4:57:14 PM EDT
Cope, In reference to the features you may have on pre ban Mini's. My thoughts on this are; the Mini's and several other firearms like Remington and Winchester semi auto's were not mentioned in the assault weapon law, therefore the law has no implication. It doesn't matter what the configuration of the gun was in the past. You can thread the bbl, put a folding stock on it with or without a pistol grip, just keep the bbl 16" and the overall length of the gun 25" even when folded. The rifles manufactured after the ban is probably a different story. Someone mentioned the term manufacturing. If you purchase a sporting arm made after September 1995 and put some evil features on it, this may be considered manufacturing an assualt weapon designed for only killing innocent people. My 5.56 cents, Doug
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 6:37:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By whitefang: If you purchase a sporting arm made after September 1995 and put some evil features on it, this may be considered manufacturing an assualt weapon designed for only killing innocent people. My 5.56 cents, Doug
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September 1995 ????
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 7:41:56 PM EDT
Where to start? First, PMI (Precision Mag) DID NOT make Ruger mags, Ruger makes Ruger mags. There is a big difference between a factory Ruger mag and a PMI mag. Yes, PMI mags tend to function better than others. Unfortunately Ruger stopped selling factor hi-cap mags to civilians in 1989, and there have been a lot of poor quality mags made between 89 and the 94 ban. The irony in it, Bill Ruger’s mini- 14 continues to have a bad reputation for reliability because he voluntarily choose to pull factory mags of the market, dumbass, he deserves it. Besides the GB(factory bayonet lug, flash hider) there were also factory folding stock mini-14s. The folding stock and pistol grip makes for an assault weapon. There are also GB factory folding stock models. Under the law a plain old standard mini-14 made before the ban and configured with an aftermarket folding stock, or a pistol grip stock and flash hider before the Sept 94 ban is a grand fathered “preban” assault weapon. **Thus there is such a thing as “preban” mini-14s.** Like a stripped ar-15 lower that left the factory before the ban it’s kind of a “grey area”. There is no qualification in the law, other than assault weapons legally owned before the ban are grand fathered. Take it for what’s it’s worth. Does a “preban” mini-14 have a greater value than a postban. That would depend on the buyer. If the person wanted a folding stock mini-14, I assume they would be willing to pay more for a legal preban than a post ban that can not have a legal folding stock. If another person has no interest in a folding stock, they’re not going to pay more for it. The market will determine price. RK
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