have struck once agin. Why, oh why haven't we nuked them yet?

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/18/224826.shtml

Here's a link that goes into the story that Fox news spiked a 4 part report by Brit Hume on those dastardly pricks that keep selling us out at every opportunity.

Transcripts of the spiked story relating to the espionage case are there as well.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/blackmail.html

As an addendum, here's the website to a fine org that tells of a day of treachery that has of yet, still gone unpunished.

http://www.ussliberty.org/


I wish Americans didn't bow and worship Israel at every opportunity. It's be nice to have a SOVERIGN  nation full of folks concerned over their own nation that didn't keep making excuses for the most evil nation on earth.

The worship of man is a sign of the times.....

Hmmm, 'making excuses for the most evil nation on earth.'

I suppose you're referring to Israel?

Eric The(Puh-leeze!)Hun[>]:)]

You're going to give the "HUN" blisters on his typing fingers.

Amen, Brother 1GUNRUNNER!

Eric The(I'llNeedSomeJavaAndNo-Doz)Hun[>]:)]

You know...my father was a preacher and over the years I can say that one of the defining tenets of "churchianity" is the absolute and irrational worship of all things Jewish.

Now...that of and by itself, while disconcerting, isn't really harmful. It is only in CONJUNCTION with their attempt to sell out MY land to Israeli interests in the process that it bothers me.

I've seen so many cases of "wannabeitis" over the years that I automatically assume the posture that anyone claiming to be Christian is little more than a closet Zionist.

"World bad, Israel saintly angels of God."
If it weren't so prevalent it'd be funny. If it weren't so treacherous it's be harmless.

America and Israel have DIFFERENT interests. We should have interests that concern OUR population and should STOP kowtowing to those of the admittedly racist Israel. Why...how many of the "churchians" would allow American jets to strafe public housing projects in this land every time a black killed a white in commission of a crime? Not fair say you? You BET it isn't fair. Yet, these same applauding monkeys cheer loudly everytime a Palestinian village is strafed by Israeli aircraft after a lone Palestinian commits a crime.

Our media, which is has a HEAVY personal stake in the affairs of Israel, screams racism as they cry to throw American sovereignty away. Oddly enough, they say nary a word concerning the racist state of Israel. In comparison to the "outrage" of South Africa, the silence is DEAFENING!

It's become SOP for Churchians to worship man, in this case Israelis and all things Jewish, in the hope of pleasing God. Having fully missed the message of Christ, they assume God is Jewish and seek to ingratiate accordingly.

According to The Book of Revelation, this is all according to plan. Believers WILL practice the worship of man and it's becoming all too obvious that some can't get there quickly enough.

Yes Israel...that wonderful nation of perpetual "victims'. The nation free of guile that will gladly tell you that it is the world that is insane, not them. Thank God he saw fit to place such wonderful angels in our midst....

You can bet that I'll not bow my knee before a nation that the world rightly despises. I'll leave that to the "churchians".

What stake would that be? That the Jews control the media? Now, where have I heard that before?

How is Israel 'racist'? As far as I can tell both Jews and Arabs belong to the same race!

Eric The(Astounded)Hun[>]:)]

Jesred

Make your links live.  Click the icon with the pencil.

Put "url" in brackets at the front and "/url" in brackets at the end of each link.

Saves us having to copy and paste every one of them in the IE address bar.........

Thanks,

PRK

You asked your question.  Can you let him answer without putting words in his mouth?



Interesting question and observation.  Will the PLO call Israel anti-semitic?

Really I didn't know Comverse Infosys was our Ally.  But I suppose if you wanted to nuke their corporate headquarters.... well whatever

WTF - Stormin Normin - you a cyber billboard?

Post from prk -

The most sensible thing Jesred could do would be to let me put words in his mouth.[:D]

But my question remains unanswered. How long do we need to wait before we realize that what I suggested he meant, was what he actually meant?

How do you interpret his statement that I quoted?

Eric The(Hmmmm?)Hun[>]:)]

I would.

In my best Mr. Burns voice:

"Eeexcellent!"

Tate

Post from Jesred -

If there is anything the Israelis don't do, it's strafe a Palestinian village after an act of terrorism has been committed!

It's astounding just how accurate their use of US supplied weaponry has become!

They aim for a HAMAS leader, they kill a HAMAS leader! Pretty simple, eh?

Now if they [b]wanted[/b] to strafe a Palestinian village...

Eric The(But,Thankfully,TheyDontWantTo!)Hun[>]:)]

It's behavior modification.  I'm all for it!

Back to the compound, Jesred!

Ya, but this is me in real life:

[img]http://users.ihost.biz/greg/images/billboard.jpg[/img]

Oops!  [url]http://www.hoffman-info.com/palestine46.html[/url]

"Collateral damage?"  [V] DaMan  

DaMan, does it ever occur to you to look behind the folks whose websites you casually post in support of your Arabist position?

whatreallyhappened.com is the biggest pile of crapola I believe that anyone has yet posted!

But you think it's right on point?

I can't wait to see the AFIO.org crap you cite but never deliver! HeHeHe.

Don't worry, I'll deliver it![:D] Book it!

Eric The(AndThatPalestinianSite?Wow!)Hun[>]:)]

Eric, how can you type with both of your feet in your mouth??!! [:P]

[url]http://webusers.anet-stl.com/~civil/dvisraelvsethiopians3.html[/url]

DaMan

Hey, Eric!  I know the website above has an agenda.  Does that mean the photos and the stories are faked??!!!

You post all your crap from the Jerusalem Post, DEBKA, and that Lebanese Phalangist crapola.  DO THEY HAVE AN AGENDA?  

It doesn't matter to me if they do or not.  But when they can't stick to the FACTS.... that's where I'll challenge you and them! [:P]

Hey, until the AFIO article (copyrighted) is unlocked, would you like a BBC or Reuters report on the incident in question?  Got to admit they don't have professional staff like DEBKA, but what the hey???!!!! [:P]

DaMan  

Yeah, Israelis cetainly do have a race problem with their african co-religionists. Perhaps the Judaism thing is only skin deep. Meanwhile they continue to lecture the rest of the world on racism and tolerance.

Anyone here offended by racism coming from Israeli jews... or are they off limits from the usual selective outrage expressed by such members as DScott?

Jesred -

I agree with many of your sentiments. However, in this newly convered site www.zionistar15.com, (formerly AR15.com) it'd be  a waste of my time to ONCE AGAIN explain why.

Mostly, I'd just like to see the Christian Zionists put their money where theiR mouth is - IF (and that's a whopping BIG "if" ) Israel is God's chosen nation, why don't we, the USA, let them stand on their own two feet, STOP FOREIGN AID TO THEM, and trust in their "God" and see how much God REALLY supports this nation that calls itself Israel.

I'll repeat my challenge once again, for any and all takers -

[size=4] I CHALLENGE ANYONE, ANY TIME, ANY WHERE, TO PROVE SCRIPTURALLY THAT NATIONAL ISRAEL IS TODAY, OR HAS EVER BEEN, GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE[/SIZE=4]

jesred -

E-mail me. I'd LOVE to further explore your thoughts here. But to do it in front of the Zionists that populate this site would be foolish (IMO)

Garandman found his soulmate...

By the way... AR15.com mean ARyan15.com or has somethingo to do with Eugene Stoner and ARmalite? Because in the first case I cannot be in the website of the ARyan chosen ones...

To Jesred: nuke your a*s first. You'll make a wonderful thing to all humankind. You and all those like you.

Don't get me wrong, paolo -

I'm NOT in favor of nuking anyone. And even if I were, I'm not sure there would be any nukes left in the US arsenal once I got done with the Arab nations responsible for 9/11.

My points are these -

1. The US has given FAR more than they've ever gotten from our "allies" the Israelis. The morality of that reality is open for debate.

2. I got a REAL problem with whoever was in charge in Israel AT THE TIME the USS Liberty got bombed. And stand firmly in my beleif that whole incident got whitewashed in favor of US - Israeli political alliances. That reality CANNOT be undone, so I won't spend much time fretting about it.

Which leads us to # 3 -

3. Israel NATIONALLY is NOT the chosen people of God, according to Scripture. So my REAL beef is with Christians who claim they are. In part leading Israelis AWAY from their Messiah Jesus Christ. This I WILL debate fervently. Often, I have challenged them in this forum to debate this point, even outside this forum. To date, NONE have accepted.

So, my brother in arms, there you have it.

Shalom,

garandman

Garandman. I have to tell you one thing:

Jesus Christ is JEW.

Actually, he is the Son of God.

He had no earthly father, and it is the fathers DNA that determines nationality.

Raised in a Jewish home by Jewish parents, and raised under Jewish law, no doubt,  but His nationality is NOT Jewish.

But even if He were a Jew, so what?? God is no respecter of a man's person. i.e., whatever a man humanly or physically or biologically is is IRRELEVANT to God. Only what he does, and his spiritual condition matter to God.

herein lies my beef with Christian doctrine that claims the Jews have a special relationship with God SIMPLY becasue of their DNA. First, its clearly unscriptural. (See above) Second, they mislead the Jew into a false state of security, essentially telling the Jew that the Jesus Christ the Messiah is irreleant to them.

Bottom line - Christian Zionism is the ULTIMATE form of anti-Semitism, as it will likely wind them up in Gehenna.

Garandman, do you agree with me that Jesus Christ was not cloned but was born (whoever is the father) from the womb of Mary?

If you agree on this, you should know that the Rabbinical Law says that someone is jewish when is born from a jewish mother WHOEVER is the father, jewish, goy or else.

So, Mary was jewish (no doubt about it from the New Testament) and Jesus, as a consequence, is jewish too. If you know Hebrew enough, all the expressions of Jesus Christ in his statement are taken from Torah or form hebrew language.

Ergo: if jews are evil, Christianity cannot be holy because was created by an observing Jew. If Cristianity must be holy, also its creator is holy, and as a consequence, being Jesus Christ a member of the jewish people, jewish people cannot be (as someone else said) "Sons of Satan".

Garandman, let someone else play the role of the Christian Ayatollah... I've enough of fundamentalism, Christian, Muslim or Jewsh, OK?

Post from PaoloAR15 -

During His earthly ministry, Jesus quoted passages from or made references to every Book in the Old Testament with the exception of Esther.

Esther, BTW, is the only book in the Old Testament in which the name of G-d does not appear!

Hmmm.

But Paolo, Jesus spoke of the Law and the Prophets, and to the hearts of all mankind, as no Man (if it be lawful to call Such a man) had ever spoken before or since.

In his 'Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah', Alfred Edersheim tells the story of a First Century rabbi who was traveling from Jerusalem to Joppa, along with three other rabbis.

The travelers came to a fork in the road, with no idea which fork to take to get to Joppa.

There was a woman present, and the chief rabbi asked the woman, 'Which road leads to Joppa?'

His companions were shocked! The chief rabbi had committed a great blunder in using too many words to address the unknown woman - he should have just said to her 'Whither Joppa', using only two words, no more!

Such was the distance between rabbis and women at the beginning of this Common Era.

Compare that attitude with Jesus' meeting with the Samaritan woman at Jacob's Well, near Sychar.

That daughter of Abraham went away astonished and told her fellow villagers that this Man had told her of everything that she had ever done. They had, amazingly, a very long and deep conversation.

Which is precisely how one should expect the Messiah to act in this World, without respect to any human constraints or prejudices upon His ministry.

See Edersheim's website at:[url]http://www.ccel.org/e/edersheim/lifetimes/[/url]

The scene at Jacob's Well is elaborated upon at:[url]http://www.ccel.org/e/edersheim/lifetimes/htm/III.viii.htm[/url]

Eric The(Messianic)Hun[>]:)]

And what?? Rabbinical law trumps all else in the world???? Even scientific findings???? I think not. I think the rabbis today are also largely against gun ownership. And I ain't buying their story on that subject either.



Jesus FREEQUENTLY quoted the OT as it was one of His intended purposes to fulfill the OT. But the entire OT pointed to the need for and coming of the Messiah. The OT existed for Him, not He for the OT.



WHo said Jews are evil?? Not me. And I'l take exception with anyone who does. I merely stated that JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD, they are in need of a Saviour.



Does being the son of a patriot make the child a patriot??? NO, its up to the individual child, his beleifs and his action. Accordingly, in the economy of God, being born with a religious heritage is of NO worth. Its the individuals actions (most specifically, the decision what to do with jesus Christ) that determines a person's standing before God. Preachers kids have turned out to be some of the WORST people I know.



What EXACTLY is a "Christian Ayatollah?"" And EXACTLY who have I forcibly(i.e. at gun point) STOPPED from speaking their mind, either politically or religiously???? [rolleyes]




Me too. In fact, Christian fundamentalism holds to the notion that the Jews are the chosen people of God. I'm basically the antithesis to "Christian fundamentalism" , and would have thought you'd have noticed that by now.

Post from garandman -

Now, I find that very interesting indeed!

Strange, but interesting.

BTW, most 'Christian fundamentalists' I know don't think much about Israel at all.

Nor do they give much thought to Jews.

I believe the Southern Baptists got into some trouble recently when they announced that they were going to pay special attention to converting Jews to Christ.

But maybe your definition of 'Christian fundamentalism' differs from mine.

Eric The(Fundametalist)Hun[>]:)]

ALL the Christian fundamentalists I know are essentially as jesred described them - infatuated with all things Jewish.

Another term frequently used in place of Christian fundamentalists is "dispensationalists."

As "fundamentalism" is an axtra-Biblical term, I hold no special affection for it. My Scriptural stances are WELL known here, and I'm NOT one to sign on to some man-made terminology with murky, user-defined defintions as to its meaning.

I beleive in Scripture, NOT "fundamentalism."



And I would ask "why is that??" WHO did they get in trouble with?? ANYONE who would prevent me from evangelizing the Jew is IMO what Christ described as someone "who would prevent these little ones from coming to me." And you KNOW what penalty Christ holds in store for them.

garand(Somebody GitAMillstone)man

Roses are redish.
Violets are bluish.
If it weren't for Jesus,
we'd all be Jewish!


It's always fun to point out to Catholics that Mary was a good Jewish Momma.

garandman, are there [u]any[/u] words you use to described your religious views or beliefs that are [u]not[/u] found in the Bible?

Are you pre-millenialist, amillenialist, or post-millinealist?

Do you believe in a [u]rapture[/u]?

'Christian fundamentalism' has been defined by the secular world in such a simple way as:



But the definition from Grolier's is more to the point!

-----------------------------------------------

[b]Fundamentalism[/b]
Copyright (c) 1992 Grolier Electronic Publishing, Inc.

Fundamentalism is a term popularly used to describe strict adherence to Christian doctrines based on a literal interpretation of the Bible. This usage derives from a late-19th-and early-20th-century transdenominational Protestant movement that opposed the accommodation of Christian doctrine to modern scientific theory and philosophy.

[b]With some differences among themselves, fundamentalists insist on belief in the inerrancy of the Bible, the virgin birth and divinity of Jesus Christ, the vicarious and atoning character of his death, his bodily resurrection, and his second coming as the irreducible minimum of authentic Christianity. [/b] This minimum was reflected in such early declarations as the 14-point creed of the Niagara Bible Conference of 1878 and the 5-point statement of the Presbyterian General Assembly of 1910. Two immediate doctrinal sources for fundamentalist thought were MILLENARIANISM and biblical inerrancy.

Millenarianism, belief in the physical return of Christ to establish a 1,000-year earthly reign of blessedness, was a doctrine prevalent in English-speaking Protestantism by the 1870s. At the same time, powerful conservative forces led by Charles Hodge and Benjamin Warfield opposed the growing use of literary and historical criticism in biblical studies, defending biblical inspiration and the inerrant authority of the Bible.

The name fundamentalist was coined in 1920 to designate those "doing battle royal for the Fundamentals." Also figuring in the name was The Fundamentals, a 12-volume collection of essays written in the period 1910-15 by 64 British and American scholars and preachers. Three million copies of these volumes and the founding of the World's Christian Fundamentals Association in 1919 gave sharp identity to fundamentalism as it moved into the 1920s. Leadership moved across the years from such men as A. T. Pierson, A. J. Gordon, and C. I. Scofield to A. C. Dixon and Reuben Torrey, William Jennings BRYAN, and J. Gresham Machen.

- continued -

As fundamentalism developed, most Protestant denominations in the United States felt the division between liberalism and fundamentalism. The Baptists, Presbyterians, and Disciples of Christ were more affected than others. Nevertheless, talk of schism was much more common than schism itself. Perhaps the lack of a central organization and a normative creed, certainly the caricature of fundamentalism arising from the SCOPES TRIAL (1925), the popularization of the liberal response by representatives like Harry Emerson FOSDICK, well-publicized divisions among fundamentalists themselves, and preoccupations with the Depression of the 1930s and World War II curtailed fundamentalism's appeal.

By 1950 it was either isolated and muted or had taken on the more moderate tones of EVANGELICALISM. In the 1970s and 1980s, however, fundamentalism again became an influential force in the United States. Promoted by popular television evangelists and represented by such groups as the MORAL MAJORITY, the new politically oriented "religious right" opposes the influence of liberalism and secularism in American life. The term fundamentalist has also been used to describe members of militant Islamic groups.

by Paul Merritt Bassett

-----------------------------------------------

Now, that to me is a very good definition of a 'Christian fundamentalism.'

I would have sworn you were a fundamentalist Christian, but then, I would be in error for swearing in the first place!

Accept my apologies.

So which of those 5 'irreducible points' do you deny?

Eric The(Sorrowful)Hun[>]:)]

Here is a link, garandman, that illustrates the trouble some Baptists got into regarding the conversion of Jews - the story was of a 12 year old boy who went to a Christian Camp near Dallas - precisely the same sort of convert that you would be pleased with - and all hell broke loose!

But the story on the boy is not as significant as the recitation of recent 'disputes' between Baptists and Jews.

See article at:[url]http://abcnews.go.com/onair/2020/2020_000512_conversion_feature.html[/url]

Eric The(Fundamentalist)Hun[>]:)]

No.



I beleive in a millennium. When that happens is known ONLY by God.



The term "Rapture" is extra-Biblical. I beleive those"who are alive and remain shall be caught up with him in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord." When THAT happens is know only to God.

The trouble with using man-made terms is that they carry with them man-made, shifting, murky, user defined meaings.

"Fundamentalist" is one of those man-made terms. In Middle eastern terms, "fundamentalist" connotes somebody who carries a gun to enforce his religious view.

See the problem?? Apply a man-made label, and you open a pandoras box of interpretation. Use Biblical terms, and those terms have concrete Biblical deifintions.






I hold to all of these but I see no reason to give J. Gresham Machen credit for any of those doctrines by applying the term fundamentalist. I hold to teh fundamentals of teh faith - but I am NOT a fundamentalist. No more than I am a Baptist, presbyterian, Congregationalist, mehtodist, or Buddhist. I am a Biblicist.



Its almost as if you are saying UNLESS you call yourself a fundamentalist, you are doctrinally incorrect REGARDLESS of what your actual doctrinal views are.

It is possible to be the antithesis of my defintion of fundamentalism, and still hold to many of the views you insist on labeling as being "fundamentalist."

Unless I'm mistaken, God thought those things up before Machen did.

Post from garandman -

Rest assured, that's not what I'm saying. If you believed those 5 points, you could call yourself a 'rabbit' and still enter into the kingdom![:D]

[b]Uh-oh![/b]

I did a search on my Bible software and the term 'Biblicist' appears nowhere in any of the 12 versions of the Bible it covers!

Can you give me scriptural authority for your use of that term?[:D]

Eric The(5-Pointy-Headed)Hun[>]:)]

Neither is the tern "garand" but I ASSURE you - that fine firearm IS a part of my "religion."

[:D]

I was raised Byzantine Catholic, the fact that Mary was Jewish is no secret in the Church.  You either know some spectacularly ignorant Catholics or have a very mild sense of fun.

Hey, garandman, I have a joke for you:

'One day a Jew, a Catholic and a Biblicist were out fishing in a little boat....'

Sorry, that's as far as the joke goes for now.

Eric The(I'mStillWorkingOnIt!)Hun[>]:)]