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Posted: 2/10/2002 6:42:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2002 6:44:23 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
[url=http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,45146,00.html][b]Activists Win New Rules Requiring Handicapped-Accessible Private Homes[/b][/url] "(T)wo cities in disparate parts of the country this week started requiring all new homes to be accessible to the handicapped. The change means wider doorways, lower light switches, higher electrical sockets and reinforced bathroom walls to accommodate the installation of handrails in homes in Naperville, Ill. and Pima County, Ariz. (the handrails are not required). The Arizona ordinance includes the significant additional requirement of a zero-step entrance. ... "There reaches a point where a situation is so dehumanizing it is wrong, morally and ethically wrong," he said. "I think it is degrading when I have to use a paper cup in the kitchen to urinate because I can't use the bathroom." And to Norene Jenkins, they mean the difference between attending a birthday party and staying home, between quietly excusing herself and asking for help to get into the bathroom. ... [b]Some supporters of the measures said they mean very little to the average homeowner.[/b] Daniel Lauber, a suburban Chicago lawyer who specializes in planning issues said "being really sensitive to the needs of a growing segment of the population" is the most important thing. Builders, however, take issue with such nonchalance. Pasquinelli Builders, which has met the standards at houses in a suburban Chicago subdivision, said the price tag for the additional work can be as high as $3,000. ... [b] And you people thought you actually OWNED your house!![pissed] Yeah, I WANT my bathroom to look like a public restroom stall!![pissed] And sure, I certainly don't want ANY steps leading up to the house - there MIGHT come a day when SOMEONE besides me MIGHT not be able to make it up to my front porch - so therefore I can't have steps for myself.[pissed] Are you real tall? Tough - you're going to have to stoop to turn on your own lights in YOUR OWN house.[pissed] [pissed][pissed][pissed][pissed][pissed][piss­ed][pissed][pissed][pissed][pissed][pissed][p­issed][pissed][pissed][pissed][pissed][pissed­] "MY home is YOUR castle - and I am just the servant/caretaker until you arrive." [/b]
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 6:46:44 AM EDT
If they want to come in my house and tell me that I have to pay for those changes so the handicap can get into my house then they better come with a SWAT team.
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 6:50:40 AM EDT
You thought you owned your home? Strange, then why do you pay yearly rent to the government be allowed to live there?
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 7:02:36 AM EDT
Point 1: These design requirements only affect NEW home construction. Point 2: I wouldn't mind too much if the master bathroom in MY house was large enough to accomodate a wheelchair-bound person. As it is, there's hardly room for two vertically-oriented people to get past each other. Point 3: Building codes are the responsibility of local governments. Point 4: I wouldn't be at all surprised if the "next step" required [i]remodels[/i] to include some or all of these requirements, under the aegis of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Your government at work!
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 7:04:13 AM EDT
[url]http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/7006/com-man.html[/url] The first plank of the Communist Manifesto: 1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rent to public purpose. Our version: The 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management.
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 7:05:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By KBaker: Point 1: These design requirements only affect NEW home construction. Point 4: I wouldn't be at all surprised if the "next step" required [i]remodels[/i] to include some or all of these requirements, under the aegis of the Americans with Disabilities Act.
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You're right. For now. Malibu CA is considering making it mandatory that ALL houses sold are "handicap accessible", even resale homes. That IS the next step!
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 7:07:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By KBaker: Point 1: These design requirements only affect NEW home construction. Point 2: I wouldn't mind too much if the master bathroom in MY house was large enough to accomodate a wheelchair-bound person. As it is, there's hardly room for two vertically-oriented people to get past each other. Your government at work!
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It is MY NEW Home....if I am building my own home I will be god#$med if someone tells me that my lighswitch needs to be 2 feet shorter....I am glad to see you don't mind the government telling you what to do
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 7:10:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER: It is MY NEW Home....if I am building my own home I will be god#$med if someone tells me that my lighswitch needs to be 2 feet shorter....I am glad to see you don't mind the government telling you what to do
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Re-read what I posted, especially point 4. I'm sorry if mild sarcasm goes over your head.
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 8:12:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Originally Posted By KBaker: Point 1: These design requirements only affect NEW home construction. Point 2: I wouldn't mind too much if the master bathroom in MY house was large enough to accomodate a wheelchair-bound person. As it is, there's hardly room for two vertically-oriented people to get past each other. Your government at work!
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It is MY NEW Home....if I am building my own home I will be god#$med if someone tells me that my lighswitch needs to be 2 feet shorter....I am glad to see you don't mind the government telling you what to do
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It is your new home as long as you follow the rules and regulations of whatever governmental organization decides to get involved. ANd as long as you pay your yearly rent, you will be allowed to stay there.
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 10:10:27 AM EDT
If you think you OWN your house just don't pay those nasty property taxes and see whose house it is . . . it will belong to any one who buys it at auction on the courthouse steps. [shock]
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 10:27:47 AM EDT
What out now guys.....looks like we will soon have "pre-ban houses." You know the ones, with all those evil features such as high light switch lugs, telescoping bathroom handrails and no more high capacity entrance steps. But seriously guys, when is enough really enough???
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 12:04:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2002 12:07:12 PM EDT by prk]
My church was looking at some renovations and found that all work over $5K reguired modifications to allow wheelchair access to the organ pit & choir area - ramps. Same thing for the chapel. This is understandable, since it's a public place. But it put such a squeeze on us, 4 years later we're still trying to figure out how to fund it. On the residential front, we can only install the water "saving" toilets, I understand. Don't think this is just new construction, either. Fireplaces are also a target.
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 3:11:51 PM EDT
I think it's a good idea for new homes to have wider doors and fewer steps in front. Think of how much easier it would be to install that new gun safe (or to steal it).
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 3:42:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KBaker: Point 3: Building codes are the responsibility of local governments.
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Building codes written to [u]protect[/u] the safety of ALL occupants of a house. But these new regulations are designed to [u]benefit and/or convienience[/u] (not protect) only a very tiny portion of the population who, in all likelyhood, have virtually no chance of inhabiting MY house anyway. As I stated before, get ready... [b]soon you won't even be able to put your own house up for sale unless first it's made handicap-accessible.[/b] There'll be no "pre-ban" homes grandfathered in. Several communities are already on their way to doing this.
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 3:53:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2002 3:54:16 PM EDT by Avalon01]
I'm building a new home in WI, and I'm looking for pre-ban toilets. I hear they smuggle them in from Canada... I HATE the post-ban ones. Av.
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 4:13:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KBaker:
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER: It is MY NEW Home....if I am building my own home I will be god#$med if someone tells me that my lighswitch needs to be 2 feet shorter....I am glad to see you don't mind the government telling you what to do
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Re-read what I posted, especially point 4. I'm sorry if mild sarcasm goes over your head.
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Sorry about that.......I have been around some liberal minded people lately and it has started to get under my skin.
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 4:59:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 6:42:26 PM EDT
How long will it be before we all have to let the local commissar have a key to our front door? [:(!]
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 6:48:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Originally Posted By KBaker: Re-read what I posted, especially point 4. I'm sorry if mild sarcasm goes over your head.
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Sorry about that.......I have been around some liberal minded people lately and it has started to get under my skin.
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No problem. I've been spending quite a bit of time over in the Democratic Underground forum. The veneer of my self-control is beginning to wear thin, too. And perhaps my post was a bit [i]too[/i] mildly sarcastic to gain your notice - or too close to the current political truth to truly be sarcasm.
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 7:11:02 PM EDT
And what about us vertically challenged people, huh? I was looking at apartments a while ago, and I came across one that was outfit like that. The light switches were situated about three inches above my KNEES! There was a chandelier light in the kitchen. I didn't bother to put in a table, because sitting down it would still bang into my head if I leaned forward. And when the HELL are they going to design shower-door frames for tall people. I HATE having to bend down to get through and I STILL crack my head on it. Let me guess...next they'll demand we modify the school system, because it's morally and ethically wrong to hold standards that only the smartest kids can-oh wait....they already did that....
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 7:25:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Renamed: How long will it be before we all have to let the local commissar have a key to our front door? [:(!]
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I hear from a fishin' buddy at the water & sewer department, that they can enter your house at anytime 24/7 to inspect your lines, should the 'need' arise.
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 8:26:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2002 8:31:35 PM EDT by gunnutt]
Well guys, I USED to live in Naperville IL. It is the most liberal, PC, yuppie, dung hole of a suburb. This is the same Naperville IL that has faught to keep a small trap range open. It got to the point where someone "from the dark side" was caught trying to pour lead shot down a monitor well at the site. I'm glad I moved to the sticks. Some dumbsh!t yuppies paid $140,000 for our 3 bedroom, no basement, frame cookie-cutter house.....SUCKERS!!!!!!! Mind you, this was five years ago....they go for $165,000+ now. BTW, looking for land in TN. Jim
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 9:25:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By gunnutt: BTW, looking for land in TN. Jim
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Lots of farmers going belly up around here (Greene and Washington Counties) and alot of land for sale--alot of it pretty cheaply. I'm grew up in New York City, and after living down here for three years, let me say this: I'm here to stay. The only way they're getting me out of this state is by dragging me, or if I end up in an even better state (like Utah, or Vermont.)
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 10:19:45 PM EDT
Born and raised in Naperville. It used to be great hanging out there in the summer, lots of high school girlies for me to look at (chill, I was also in H.S. at the time). Now its full of preppy assheads, but the downtown area is spiffy. radioman
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 7:32:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zak:
Originally Posted By gunnutt: BTW, looking for land in TN. Jim
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Lots of farmers going belly up around here (Greene and Washington Counties) and alot of land for sale--alot of it pretty cheaply. I'm grew up in New York City, and after living down here for three years, let me say this: I'm here to stay. The only way they're getting me out of this state is by dragging me, or if I end up in an even better state (like Utah, or Vermont.)
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I'm not one to take advantage of someone else's hardship, but I'll look into it anyway! I'm lookin for a place to get away to, grow old, and of course shoot off the back (or front) porch. Jim
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 8:09:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By prk: My church was looking at some renovations and found that all work over $5K reguired modifications to allow wheelchair access to the organ pit & choir area - ramps. Same thing for the chapel. This is understandable, since it's a public place. But it put such a squeeze on us, 4 years later we're still trying to figure out how to fund it.
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I'm all for respect for the handicapped, but, like everything else, only up to a point. For example, in the White Mountain NF in New Hampshire, the AMC had to spend something like $30,000 to make a hut wheelchair accessible. The only thing is, the hut happened to be ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN. The trail to hut wasn't accessible, but the hut itself had to be, by law. And, of course, just to prove a point, some 8 zealots CARRIED a wheelchair-bound person up to the hut to show that the modifications where necessary. At some point we've got to start using some common sense, instead of taking a valid principle and carrying it to an unreasonable extreme.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:44:16 AM EDT
Just as long as I don't have to put in a new "wider" driveway with a special blue "big-a$$" handicapped parking only slot.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 10:03:48 AM EDT
These things would have ment nothing to me a few years ago but then thru a truck accident that was no fault of mine where I lost both legs I now see things differant. Most homes of my family or friends are a total nightmare to get around, if they only had slightly wider doors it would make a world of differance and how about those houses with umpteen stairs. I also have friends that are builders and movers that say the same thing houses are not even remotly designed with the handicaped in mind. But having said all this there needs to be some common sense used when telling people what to do with there own house. even if we only rent it from the county. Think about it some day you could be in a wheelchair and the house you live in is not even remotly accesable or cant even be made so, and trust me there arnt many that are, then what would you do in the mean time for a place to live.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 10:14:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By plowboy: These things would have ment nothing to me a few years ago but then thru a truck accident that was no fault of mine where I lost both legs I now see things differant. Most homes of my family or friends are a total nightmare to get around, if they only had slightly wider doors it would make a world of differance and how about those houses with umpteen stairs. I also have friends that are builders and movers that say the same thing houses are not even remotly designed with the handicaped in mind. But having said all this there needs to be some common sense used when telling people what to do with there own house. even if we only rent it from the county. Think about it some day you could be in a wheelchair and the house you live in is not even remotly accesable or cant even be made so, and trust me there arnt many that are, then what would you do in the mean time for a place to live.
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Point well taken. The problem is that seeking "common sense" is unheard of in passing Gov't regulations.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 10:57:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: Are you real tall? Tough - you're going to have to stoop to turn on your own lights [/b]
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I built a house two years ago, and attempted to get much of the stuff mandated by these bills into my home. I did pretty well, but was unable to widen one hallway as the builder dragged his feet long enough that the trusses were built before he processed the request. Net cost? $0.00. It doesn't cost a nickle to move the wall switches dowm and makes them easier to use for children. I'm a bit over 6 feet tall, and have friends as tall as 6'6" over. No one has a problem reaching the switch, its still above waist high for everyone, including Michael Jordan and his buddies. Further, it requires RAISING the electrical outlets, which makes it EASIER for tall people, old people, etc. to reach them. If I had succeeded in widening the hall, it would have cost about $5 each for the two wider doors I needed to take advantage of the wider hall. THat would have been more comfortable for me, as I am wide through the shoulders. 2.5' doors ought to outlawed, purely on the bvasis of safety Where the big expense comes in, is in cabinets, with the raised toe kick to make it easy to use a wheel chair. Also the roll in showers would cost a few bucks, and the cheapest toilets that make you feel like you are squatting above a hole in the ground can't be used. But as use goes up, cost comes down. All that said, requiring this kind of stuff is just silly. I'd modify the building codes to change the switch and outlet height, and then require door openings to be 3 feet as part of the fire code. If you want a roll in shower or bath, pay for it. if you want to cook in my kitchen and the counters don't suit you, then buy a higher wheel chair.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 11:25:35 AM EDT
The government has no business mandating these changes, be it a local gov't or the federal gov't. The problem is that you inconvenience the vast majority of homeowners and home-buyers who do not want and do not need these features. These features in most cases cost more in the way of special appliances, oddly-spec'ed specialty buidling items, etc. While I have sympathy for the handicapped, that does not mean that I should be [b]FORCED[/b] by the government to accomodate them in my home. That should be a choice that I make. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that handicapped people do get some sort of tax break or subsidy to modify their living space to accomodate them. Will the rest of us get that? I doubt it!
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 12:16:35 PM EDT
I have a problem with tan walls, it makes me feel like vomiting, I think we need laws that no one in America can have a tan wall, after all, someday I might be in a house with a tan wall, and it wouldn't be fair to me, would it?
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 12:30:29 PM EDT
I sold my home recently, but the potential buyer who was willing to pay the most money had to decline because he was in a wheelchair. A few of the door were just too narrow, and the bathroom needed to be bigger. If I ever built a house, I would make it wheelchair accessable for that reason. But I do not want the government forcing me to do it. Let the market solve these problems.
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