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Posted: 2/9/2002 2:39:45 PM EDT
I went to a gun show this morning. A guy at one of the tables had 11 30 AR mags for sale. They were all 98%+ with green followers. They were manufactured by Center. I offered the guy $120 for all eleven thinking that he would counter with his bottom line price. He agreed to the $120 and I thought I got a great deal. Upon getting home I tried the mags out for fit. They all fit good but noticed they all had a post ban date stamped on them (i.e. 10/99). This is the first time I have ran across ones with dates on them. I assume that they all were stolen military or LE. Am I right? I was dumb for not looking them over careful before buying. Am I at legal risk for having them? Should I dump them? Advise please.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 2:48:31 PM EDT
Get rid of them. If you're lucky, you have a friend that's a cop or in the military who might be able to make use of them, and trade you real pre-bans in return. Technically, as they aren't stamped "FOR LE/GOVT USE ONLY" you are not in violation of the law by possessing them. That sounds good, but I wouldn't want to be the test case myself--your opinion may be different :)
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 2:49:32 PM EDT
Are you a little girl? Or are you a soldier getting ready for the SHTF? Then don't worry about it and get out the dremel and do a little touch up on those Mags!
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 3:02:07 PM EDT
Check the magazine forum in the equipment section. There is an faq doc that might discuss this. I remember reading about a company that produces post ban mags but only stamps the production date of the mag onto the mag body. The le/govt use warning is not stamped onto the mag. Not sure how this happened but it did.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 3:04:59 PM EDT
Center had the unfortunate practice of leaving off the LE/Military Only markings on their post-ban mags. I don't know what the state laws in WA are, but it's federal offense to buy and sell these to non-LE. If you're a "real man" like Bolt I guess it wouldn't matter, but I would try and get the seller to take them back, or sell/trade/give them away as able. I guess when something looks too good to be true, it probably is.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 3:10:30 PM EDT
It is an offense to possess mags marked with 'for law enforcement or government use only', but it is NOT an offense to possess mags that DON'T have THAT marking regardless of what that alleged date stamp says. Keep them, use them, and say nothing about them. While they're questionable in one respect, by the strictest definition of the legal description, they're not illegal. When is someone going to actually start inspecting your magazines's date codes, anyway? If that IS a date code, that is...how do you know it's not a lot number or production code? Of course, inspecting mags before buying them is always a good idea. CJ
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 3:18:03 PM EDT
Bolt and DScott Of course I considered just keeping them and not worrying about it. I have over 120 excellent condition GI mags for the five ARs I own. I asked the question because I honestly don't know if they are legal to have. The idea of taking a dremel tool to them sounds like a real good way to take care of the problem. For some reason I'm getting paranoid in my old age about legal matters. I don't want to give the assholes any reason to confiscate my guns. What, if on the way to the range I got pulled over by a cop and he someway or another found the mag? I don't want to give him the excuse to take my $1400 preban Colt.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 3:25:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2002 6:40:25 PM EDT by the_survivalist]
ihave gone into this many times. heres the scoop.. 1)center industries mags have *"allways" been datestamped, and had there manufacturer # stamped on them. this is a company polocy. 2) technically any date after 9/94 (OOPS TYPO) is illegal. 3) sometime between 04/00 and 05/01 center started puting the leo markings on the mags. 4) *there are OCCASIONALLY a few mags produced and released with NO markings on them at all (including dates) these for all intents and purposes are perfectrly legal to own. personally i would keep em, i have never heard of mags alone being cause for search and siesure, and arrest. if you are still worried find someone who doesn't care and sell em at a loss, or burry them for a rainy day that is comeing. edited to ad that technically after 9/94 the company was in violation of the law in that they were producing mags that did not have the leo markings. the law states that newly manufactured mags must have date stamps AND leo markings on them as well. just some trivia
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 3:42:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Flash66: Bolt and DScott Of course I considered just keeping them and not worrying about it. I have over 120 excellent condition GI mags for the five ARs I own. I asked the question because I honestly don't know if they are legal to have. The idea of taking a dremel tool to them sounds like a real good way to take care of the problem. For some reason I'm getting paranoid in my old age about legal matters. I don't want to give the assholes any reason to confiscate my guns. What, if on the way to the range I got pulled over by a cop and he someway or another found the mag? I don't want to give him the excuse to take my $1400 preban Colt.
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of all the cops i have met NONE cared if any of my mags were post ban (not that i have any i just like to ask stupid questions). in this day and age, we should all be prudent (not paranoid) i personally wouldn't bother with it. just don't use them untill you need em. have fun......
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 3:50:01 PM EDT
They are illegal. Is it worth a felony to have those 11 mags.? If you read about oneshot1kill's situation, do you think they would have let him go with a stern warning if the found those mag's with his AR???? Do you think he would have got his AR back??
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 4:02:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: They are illegal. Is it worth a felony to have those 11 mags.? If you read about oneshot1kill's situation, do you think they would have let him go with a stern warning if the found those mag's with his AR???? Do you think he would have got his AR back??
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hence the "prudent but not paranoid". keep em, but dont keep em with you.(soto speak)
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 4:11:00 PM EDT
Whether or not they are stamped LEO does not make them legal to possess. The stamped date shows that they were made after the 1994 ban. This makes them a post ban high capacity magazine that is illegal for anyone to possess unless they are a cop. Read up on the text of the ban and see for yourself. I don't think cmjohnson has the right idea. Read the law for yourself!
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 4:11:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Flash66: Bolt and DScott Of course I considered just keeping them and not worrying about it. I have over 120 excellent condition GI mags for the five ARs I own. I asked the question because I honestly don't know if they are legal to have. The idea of taking a dremel tool to them sounds like a real good way to take care of the problem. For some reason I'm getting paranoid in my old age about legal matters. I don't want to give the assholes any reason to confiscate my guns. What, if on the way to the range I got pulled over by a cop and he someway or another found the mag? I don't want to give him the excuse to take my $1400 preban Colt.
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I'm with you... it's just not worth it. While the risk is small, the consequences will be costly, even if you prevail. I'd go after the seller to make it right, or consider it an expensive lesson. Good luck!
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 4:58:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2002 3:03:27 PM EDT by M4Real]
Bury them until Sept. 2004! I can dream can't I?
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 5:35:53 PM EDT
For $10 each you still got a good deal even if they are post ban. I would hold on to them some where safe until the day you need them.By then either the date won't matter any more because it has sun set or things have gone to hell in a handbasket and it won't matter anyway.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 6:09:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M4Real: Bury them until Sept. 2004! I can dream can't I?
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The magazine capacity limit does not expire. Only the "Assault Weapon Ban" expires. These are in two separate sections of the 1994 Omnibus Crime Act.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 6:35:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:
Originally Posted By the_survivalist: 2) technically any date after 4/94 is illegal.
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Why "4/94" (April)? The 1994 Omnibus Crime Act was not signed into law until some time in August or September.
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OOPS TYPO I FIXED IT..
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 6:37:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:
Originally Posted By M4Real: Bury them until Sept. 2004! I can dream can't I?
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The magazine capacity limit does not expire. Only the "Assault Weapon Ban" expires. These are in two separate sections of the 1994 Omnibus Crime Act.
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last time i checked they were bot schedualed to expire at the same time. (either together or as seperate sunsets, meaning either one might be made perminant independant of the other.)
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 1:05:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 1:23:36 AM EDT
1)center industries mags have *"allways" been datestamped, and had there manufacturer # stamped on them. this is a company polocy.
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I have a lot of Center Industries with NO date stamp. All of these have no markings whatsoever on the mag bodies. The only place stamped is the floorplate. And that is: [i]CENTER INDUSTRIES CORP. WICHITA, KS. U.S.A.[/i]
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 2:42:13 AM EDT
What gunshow did you attend in Wa? You know it RAINS a lot in Wa. You could always drill a couple of water drain holes in your magazines, that way the water won't fill up inside of it when you are out in the rain shooting. Of course since you have already posted to a public forum.........
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 7:27:25 AM EDT
I went searching through the law (18 USC ch. 44 section 922 and related sections) last night but wasn't able to relocate the sunset clauses. I know they're there somewhere, but I just couldn't find them. Can you lead me directly to them? CJ
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 7:36:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2002 7:54:26 AM EDT by Ponyboy]
Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed: The magazine capacity limit does not expire.
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Sorry Hans, wrong answer! See below snips of the Crime Bill.
[Crime Bill, effective 9/14/94] TITLE XI-FIREARMS Subtitle A-Assault Weapons SEC. 110101. SHORT TITLE. This subtitle may be cited as the "Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act". SEC. 110102. RESTRICTION ON MANUFACTURE, TRANSFER, AND POSSESSION OF CERTAIN SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS. (snip) SEC. 110103. BAN OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES. (a) PROHIBITION.-Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 110102(a), is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection: "(w)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for a person to transfer or possess a large capacity ammunition feeding device. (snip) SEC. 110105. EFFECTIVE DATE. This subtitle and the amendments made by this subtitle- (1) shall take effect on the date of the enactment of this Act; and [b](2) are repealed effective as of the date that is 10 years after that date.[/b]
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Link Posted: 2/10/2002 7:47:49 AM EDT
Someone once told me that if you smear some JB weld across the stamp it would cover the markings. I have never tried it, so I do not know if it really works, it is just FYI. Tom
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 7:48:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 8:38:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 10:46:18 AM EDT
I second the idea of putting the mags into a buried SHTF cache. It is only a matter of time before everything pre and post will be declared illegal and then it won't matter what is stamped on them.
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 10:47:08 AM EDT
Send them to me[:D]. If you decide to get ride of them email me. R35
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 11:20:37 AM EDT
If you get stopped by the police, tell them that "the stamp is a freshness date. Best used before 10/99" [:D]
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 11:47:35 AM EDT
If you're paranoid about that innocuous marking, the one that is NOT anything that could EVER land a conviction by your peers, then you can make them go away with one of those magic aluminum welding rods. Strip the mag bodies, weld them up, file and sand them to perfection, get them re-anodized, and reapply the dry moly lube. I could do them all in a few hours. CJ
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 2:19:13 PM EDT
USNJOE I bought them at the gun show in Yakima. The side of the state that NEVER has rain. I would lose that defense in a nanosecond. But thanks for the idea. CMJohnson I'm not worried about getting put in jail. I'm a law abiding person who would never use my weapons in a crime. I would just worry about the jealous law enforcement officer who would make a big deal about it just because he could. Scenario - Going to the range Saturday morning. Picked up my trusty legal AR and a couple of mags, one of them the aftforementioned. Going 58MPH in a 55MPH zone. Get pulled over by a 25 year old LEO. Looks in my Jeep. Sees my weapon in the back. Ask if he could check them out. Knowing that if I say no I'll probably get a ticket for speeding. Didn't remember the mag so I say yes. He checks, discovers the "crime". Confiscates my AR. Maybe even take a trip down to the station. Play hell dealing with the situation. Have to pay for a lawyer. End game, no charges but I'm out a grand for the lawyer and I never get the AR back.
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 3:00:53 PM EDT
There is a gun store here in AZ that sells NIW Centers with green followers that are marked 10/99 on the wrapper. I wouldn't touch them for the $35 they are asking. If you can sell them to an LEO and make your money back, I think that would be the best bet. Better safe than sorry.
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 3:29:21 PM EDT
Unless you're in a state like NY that has a Federal mirror ban law only Federal LEO's enforce Federal laws. I really doubt that the vast majority of LE would even know what a restricted mag is even if they fell over it! In any case for the small amount of money involved I would donate them to a PD, sell them to a PO or try and exchange/return them to the selling dealer.
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