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Posted: 2/6/2002 4:45:33 AM EDT
[size=4]How Much Has Really Changed?[/size=4] [b]Or are we waiting to be mugged again?[/b] Mr. Derbyshire is also an NR contributing editor February 5, 2002 8:45 a.m. Better tread carefully here. I am starting to get a reputation as the wet blanket of NRO — the guy who believes we are doomed, doomed, and that the current war effort will fizzle out with nothing much accomplished but a change of government in Afghanistan. [b]A change, that is to say, from a gang of cutthroats who thought America was the Great Satan to a gang of cutthroats who perceive us as being more of a Great ATM[/b]. My assertion last Thursday that "democracy is no match for terrorism" didn't help. Am I on board with this war, or not?, readers are asking. Who gave me permission to sickly o'er the native hue of resolution with the pale cast of thought? What kind of lily-livered chattering-teeth party pooper am I? It is, of course, bad form to express doubt about the nation's determination to see this through. But see, that's why NRO has me on the payroll. When the site needs to be garlicked up a bit with a dash of bad form, bad taste, or bad attitude — send for Derb! So here I go, telling you something else you most likely don't want to hear. Let's start with my colleague Victor Davis Hanson on last Friday's NRO. Victor makes the case that September 11 triggered a sea change in American attitudes — in the attitudes of the large general public — towards that complex of ideas that goes under headings like "political correctness," "multiculturalism," and so on. People (says Victor) just aren't going to swallow that stuff any more. Ordinary Americans now know that: "Regimes that are autocratic and theocratic... are not merely different, but murderous." Prior to September 11 we were in a posture of cultural cringe towards the older, wiser and more worldy nations of Europe; we now know that "our allies, though they sometimes mean well, remain continually weak." We used to genuflect to those love-the-world do-gooders at the U.N., the Hague, Geneva, Kyoto... Now we know they are just a bunch of gassy hypocrites. The whole silly business of educating kids in multiculturalism was, says Victor, "based on romance, ignorance and isolation" — on the cosmetic prettying-up of cultures where human life, and especially female human life, was in fact nasty, brutish, short, and cheap. But the American public, he claims, will be no more deceived. September 11 woke us up. Now, if you've read much of my stuff, you know how desperately I want this all to be true. I yield to no one in my loathing of the whole p.c.-multiculti-"diversity" racket, and have said so many times. I think Western Civilization is the bee's knees and the cat's pajamas, far superior to any other, and that the Anglo-Saxon model of that civilization, as developed across the four or five centuries of the modern age, is its apotheosis. I favor a strong assimilationist ethic for newcomers to America, reinforced in the public schools, with periodic moratoriums on immigration to help assimilation along — the next moratorium being long overdue. - continued -
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 4:46:47 AM EDT
So I'm with Victor in what he's wishing for. It is, however, a well-known fact that if wishes were horses, beggars would ride. So here's the question: Is Victor right? When the Twin Towers fell that terrible day, did the scales fall from America's eyes along with them? Is it really the case that: [i][b]All is changed, changed utterly: A terrible beauty is born.[/b][/i] (There should be a question mark here somewhere, but I'm not going to mess with William Butler Yeats.) Let's take a look and see if we can plot a graph. I was reading Victor's piece for the second time — I'm a huge Hanson fan — in the Saturday New York Post, which printed it as an op-ed essay, when one of my neighbors phoned. What, she asked, is the Chinese for "one hundred"? I told her, and then asked her why she wanted to know. "Oh, next week is Multicultural Week at the school, and the kids have to find out how different cultures say things." Later I asked Rosie, who keeps track of school affairs, if she knew about this. Yes, she said, it's a regular thing at the school. This is also, of course, Black History Month, when the kids, having just had a full week of Martin Luther King, get a full month of Harriet Tubman, Sojourner Truth, and Frederick Douglass. The first two are names only to me; but I read Douglass's book as part of my own personal Americanization program, and thought it, and him, very admirable. If Tubman and Truth were of that same caliber, then certainly these are people I'd want my kids to know about. At least they're all American. My little angels, however, are in first and third grade; and at this point in their academic careers, I can, without trying very hard, think of at least 100 names that, in my opinion, it's more important for them to get acquainted with, let alone have an entire month devoted to. One of the guests on O'Reilly's show last week was a New York City schoolteacher, a sane and well-spoken person, as far as one could judge, who has been suspended from classroom duties and may be fired because she told her class that the perpetrators of the September 11 attacks were Arabs. Norman Mineta, who is on record as believing that if we practice ethnic profiling, we are "no different than [sic] the despicable terrorists who rained such hatred on our people," remains Secretary of Transportation. Which means, among other things, that if the president, vice president and twelve other congressional and Cabinet officials should be wiped out, Underperformin' Norman becomes the acting chief executive of the United States of America. Think about that in the dark watches of the night! - continued -
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 4:47:37 AM EDT
[b]You see where I'm going with this. No, I'm not against the war. I'd cheerfully go fight the shining-eyed ululating little bastards myself, if there was any place in the ranks for a middle-aged out-of-condition bookworm with flat feet and corrective lenses. Yes, I'd cheer along with Victor if I thought the hate-America bedwetters had been routed from our schools, colleges, law schools, governments, media, courts, lobbies, churches...[u]The question is: Have they[/u]?[/b] Is it now much more difficult for a young man from Egypt or Saudi Arabia to enter the U.S.A.? Is it really? Are this nation's borders far more secure now than they were five months ago? Are they? Is the federal government engaged in an all-out no-expense-spared effort to track down and deport illegal immigrants? (Starting with the 115,000 illegals who, according to the Census Bureau, come from the Middle East. And, come to think of it, including legal immigrants who are found to have criminal records, unsavory connections, or opinions that Americans are no longer willing to tolerate among guests in this country.) Is it? Do Hollywood airheads now think twice before making their vapid anti-American "thoughts" known to their adoring fans? Do they? Shall I see, the next time I go to Rockefeller Center, that sign directing citizens to the passport office in English and Spanish replaced by a sign printed in English only? Shall I? Have the pests who clamor for portraits of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and other great Americans to be taken down from municipal offices crawled away to sulk in their rat-holes? Have they? Will the next college brochure I see not contain that weasely text asserting that while the school does absolutely not, no not ever! discriminate in any way, shape, or form against anybody at all on the basis of race, gender, disability, orientation, etc., etc., they are nonetheless most especially anxious to hear from minority applicants? Will it? Are our defense labs going to stop assigning highly sensitive research projects to people known to have personal connections in unfriendly countries? Are they? The next time a gang of man-hating feminist ideologues decides to trash an old, proud, tradition-encrusted military school, will the Supreme Court not say: "Go ahead, girls! Hey, break a few windows for us while you're down there! It's all on Uncle Sam!" Will it? Look, I'm only asking. - continued -
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 4:48:07 AM EDT
Back in the late 1980s, there was a judge in New York City named Bruce Wright, known to all as "Turn 'Em Loose Bruce" for his lenience towards the criminals who came up before him. This was one of those liberal judges who had an excuse for every felon, even for those too stupid or obstreperous to have prepared an excuse for themselves. Well, one day Judge Wright got mugged in the street near his home. He was off work for a few days. It was a big story in the tabloid newspapers, and a lot of people were making jokes about it. When Judge Wright returned to the bench, he made a point of starting off that day's session with an announcement: "[u]As I'm sure you all know, I was the victim of a criminal assault the other day. I want to make it clear that this experience will in [b]no way[/b] change my sentencing policies on this bench[/u]!" As he paused to let this sink in, someone called out from the back of the courtroom: [b]"Mug him again!"[/b] The atrocious mugging America got on September 11 should have woken us from our opium-dreams of multiculturalism, historical guilt, and national self-abasement. Did it, though? Vic Hanson thinks so, and I hope with all my heart that he is right. God forbid we need to be mugged again to bring us fully to our senses. God forbid! ... Yet still, I can't help but wonder. See article at:[url]http://www.nationalreview.com/derbyshire/derbyshire020502.shtml[/url] Eric The(Well,AreWe?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 4:59:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2002 5:01:14 AM EDT by TheCommissioner]
Reading stuff on the web has so modified my attention span I couldn't make it through a article taking [s]three[/s] four posts to complete! Edited because I miscounted the posts!
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 5:17:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2002 5:18:39 AM EDT by Tinker]
Derbyshire is an optimist. In my opinion, the answer is "NO, nothing has really changed". When all the little flags wore out, the US was ready for the war to be over and things to be "just like they were". I expect the next major terrorist act will be a stunning kick in the pants just as this one was.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 5:23:15 AM EDT
I suspect that even if terrorists managed to wipe out a joint session of Congress and we had to elect a whole new batch of legislators from scratch, we'd still wind up with almost the same sort of people in office after a few years.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 5:40:52 AM EDT
Sadly, sadly I must say little has changed and nothing will change unless America is further attacked right here at home. It is a pretty lousy state of affairs when the only things I see capable of uniting us is to lose more American lives. [?]
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 5:47:05 AM EDT
Eric, I enjoyed reading your post and like the way you write as well. I relatively new here and live in Long Island, NY. I agree with your setinments. I think they're founded in realism and not false optimism. Folks, the culture in this country is too far gone to be saved. Being a conservative New Yorker I am close to the epicenter of these cultural indicators you listed. People are in large part cowards and will buckle to whatever the PC storm troopers inflict upon them. People are basically ignorant cowards who want to "get along" and are fearful of being called names. The images and reality of 9-11 are slowly fading. That is the sense I get here in New York. I don't say it with pleasure but with a heavy heart. It's too late folks. The cultural deconstructionists are winning. I do not think we have the sense, commitment or leadership to see this thing through to the finish. You've got a lot of people here who still will not admit that the events which led to 9-11 are in large part as a result of their beloved Bill Clinton. There's a growing mountain of evidence which shows his culpability and yet these ignorant people do not get it. Bombs away, that's what I say! I'm going South bound eventually because too many poeple here are too stupid be be allowed to live. They deserve to die for being so damn ignorant and self absorbed. Eric, where are you from originally? The use of the phrase "bees knees" from my experience is English. John
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 5:54:25 AM EDT
I just realized that the initial post was that of Mr. Derbyshire's and not Eric's. I did not realize that Eric had cut and pasted Mr. Derbyshire's comments to his post.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 6:00:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jjforsyth: Eric, I enjoyed reading your post and like the way you write as well. I relatively new here and live in Long Island, NY. I agree with your setinments. I think they're founded in realism and not false optimism. Folks, the culture in this country is too far gone to be saved. Being a conservative New Yorker I am close to the epicenter of these cultural indicators you listed. People are in large part cowards and will buckle to whatever the PC storm troopers inflict upon them. People are basically ignorant cowards who want to "get along" and are fearful of being called names. The images and reality of 9-11 are slowly fading. That is the sense I get here in New York. I don't say it with pleasure but with a heavy heart. It's too late folks. The cultural deconstructionists are winning. I do not think we have the sense, commitment or leadership to see this thing through to the finish. You've got a lot of people here who still will not admit that the events which led to 9-11 are in large part as a result of their beloved Bill Clinton. There's a growing mountain of evidence which shows his culpability and yet these ignorant people do not get it. Bombs away, that's what I say! I'm going South bound eventually because too many poeple here are too stupid be be allowed to live. They deserve to die for being so damn ignorant and self absorbed. Eric, where are you from originally? The use of the phrase "bees knees" from my experience is English. John
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JJ, Eric The Hun posted the article here from NRO. It was written by John Derbyshire, who is originally British.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 6:10:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jjforsyth: I just realized that the initial post was that of Mr. Derbyshire's and not Eric's. I did not realize that Eric had cut and pasted Mr. Derbyshire's comments to his post.
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Mr. jjforsyth, Sucking up to a "HUN !" You may qualify for membership into the "HUN GANG" - just complete the five questions below and we will see: 1) Tell me do you have an active interest in bulldozers ?? 2) Do you ignore responses containing information which you would rather not acknowledge ?? 3) If Israel 'accidentally' dropped a hydrogen weapon on any state excepting Texas would you immediately gallop to defend the Israeli's ? 4) Do you possess a large boom-box with an extra LOUD setting ?? 5) And finally do you possess the newly digital mastered CD of "Onward Christian Huns ?" Your responses are eagerly awaited.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 8:01:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2002 8:03:52 AM EDT by 5subslr5]
Bacon, lettuce and tomato with mayo on wheat - don't toast the bread please. (Please see post above.)
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 8:25:03 AM EDT
I've said right along that I think this so-called war is a joke. You would think that with the multi-hundred billion (if not trillion) dollar defense/intelligence budget that we could accomplish the task of catch bin Laden. I've come to believe that bin Laden is intentionally being left alone for some reason (or he is dead, but I doubt it). Either we are being blackmailed with a nuclear detonation or what I don't know. Some fucking war. As far as our culture goes, why blame the immigrants? I place the blame where it belongs--with the federal government monster that has come to eat up and spit out all of our time tested social institutions, especially the schools. It is the high-minded, high-handed, good-intentioned meddling (from both sides of the political spectrum) that has ruined everything. I don't blame the immigrants one bit. I get annoyed with them, sure, but I also learn how to be free by watching them--the Mexicans around here, especially, live almost completely outside the system. I admire that. It shows we don't need a formalized system in order to get along. I got beat up for saying that Bush and his colleagues are lunatics. They are though. He's just a good-time party boy who won a popularity contest. The "war" is an easy way out. Much harder would be to find a way to really earn that Nobel Peace Prize nomination (how can you be nominated for a "peace" prize by starting a war, anyways?). We badly need statesmen who are not sellouts and who have some kind of brains and are willing to emphatically say "NO" to bad ideas. Bush's is tying his ties too tight or something--not enough air getting to that old, drug and partying hazed up brain of his. The rhetoric is getting old, especially the anti-drug rhetoric. The war on terror rhetoric is even more trite--axis of evil? WTF? I guess the people in DC think we lowly American subjects are complete idiots and willing to fork over 100% of our incomes in order to feed the beast. My bullshit meter is pegged. I need to tune out for awhile or something. Maybe ditch this whole damn country completely. It wears my patience thin to see such cosmic stupidity everywhere the facade is peeled back just a hair.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 8:33:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: I guess the people in DC think we lowly American subjects are complete idiots and willing to fork over 100% of our incomes in order to feed the beast.
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All the available evidence says they are right, doesn't it? As long as they don't rush things too quickly...
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 8:45:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: I need to tune out for awhile or something. Maybe ditch this whole damn country completely.
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Running away from a fight that is worth fighting would not be my first instinct. Even if the cause looks hopeless. BTW, when you find a better country be sure and let us know.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 9:33:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By jjforsyth: I just realized that the initial post was that of Mr. Derbyshire's and not Eric's. I did not realize that Eric had cut and pasted Mr. Derbyshire's comments to his post.
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Mr. jjforsyth, Sucking up to a "HUN !" You may qualify for membership into the "HUN GANG" - just complete the five questions below and we will see: 1) Tell me do you have an active interest in bulldozers ?? 2) Do you ignore responses containing information which you would rather not acknowledge ?? 3) If Israel 'accidentally' dropped a hydrogen weapon on any state excepting Texas would you immediately gallop to defend the Israeli's ? 4) Do you possess a large boom-box with an extra LOUD setting ?? 5) And finally do you possess the newly digital mastered CD of "Onward Christian Huns ?" Your responses are eagerly awaited.
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If you had noticed I amended my original post by saying that I now realized that Mr. Derbyshire's article had been cut and pasted in Eric's original post. The answer to your 5 questions is NO. John
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 9:42:11 AM EDT
jj, if you look at the top of my post you'll see I posted your ammendment. "0" out of "5" is, by the way, an excellent score ! [:D]
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 12:51:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: jj, if you look at the top of my post you'll see I posted your ammendment. "0" out of "5" is, by the way, an excellent score ! [:D]
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Okay Okie! [;)]
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 1:00:23 PM EDT
Post from jjforsyth -
The answer to your 5 questions is NO.
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That's o.k., [b]jjforsyth[/b], [u]my[/u] answers to all five of 5subslr5's questions were 'no', as well! The really sad part is that 5subslr5 answered 3 of the 5 questions affirmatively! As a matter of fact, he answered 'Hell, yes' to Question No. 2. If you don't believe me, ask him about Israel's notorious reputation as a drug-exporting nation! He's still mad 'cause he recently had to point out 'Oklahoma' on a map to God![:D] Eric The(GangOfOne)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 2:06:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2002 2:13:12 PM EDT by 5subslr5]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: As a matter of fact, I answered 'Hell, yes' to Israel's notorious reputation as a drug-exporting nation! Eric The(GangOfatLeastTwo)Hun[>]:)]
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FINALLY, finally we have an admission from the "HUN" that Israel is a drug exporting (to the United States) country and that "X" was being muled in by Orthodox Rabbinical students by way of Amsterdam !! On O'Reilly last night but "HUN" I had made the call two days before - at least. You've just been shuckin and jivin and avoiding the bitter truth - the Israeli gang not only exports "X" to the U.S. but has ties to the middle-east terrorists !! Eric, for just a moment really consider the use of Students of Religion, hair correct, correct dress and head covering - and they were "MULES !" I don't know whether I'm more pissed at the primary gang for using the students of religion to mule or the students of religion to willingly accept money for that type act ? (e. the h.'s post has been edited for clarity and my post edited to include 'facts'. Will the "Hun" respond ?)
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 2:39:46 PM EDT
Trickshot wrote:
My bullshit meter is pegged. I need to tune out for awhile or something. Maybe ditch this whole [bold]damn country[/bold] completely. It wears my patience thin to see such cosmic stupidity everywhere the facade is peeled back just a hair.
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I find your reference to this country highly offensive! While I do not always agree with the politicians, this is STILL MY COUNTRY and I demand that you respect it - or leave! You do not have to agree with it, but cursing it is offensive. As to the original questions posed by Mr. Derbyshire: I regret to say that it will require one or more additional attacks on America to wake US up. There are still those who are into touchy feely, PC crap. Those that do not recognize Israel's fight is exactly the same as our own, those who do not see the need to widen the war to all Islam in order to achieve peace and security in America. So sad.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 3:37:25 PM EDT
Post from 5subslr5 -
Will the "Hun" respond?
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I will certainly respond to your reasonable and gracious question....right after you do the same for the questions I put to you from that 'Ariel Sharon is Sorry' thread [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=91246[/url] To refresh your memory, those unanswered questions are: 1. Do you remember when Ehud Barak offered Arafat about '99%' of what the Palestinians say they wanted and had been asking for all along? 2. Do you remember what happened? 3. Wonder why? 4. Could it possibly be because Arafat and the Palestinians don't really desire peace? Could it be that accepting any offer from the Israelis, even an offer that gives them 99% of what they have said they have wanted, still leaves a vibrant, industrious, open society on the 'other' West Bank (you know 'Israel' proper) inhabited by Jews! 5. Did we consider it vital when we benefitted from the use of Israeli-made Have Nap air-launched missiles on our B-52 bombers, during the Gulf War? 6. Did our Navy, meanwhile, consider the Israeli Pioneer pilotless drones for reconnaissance in the Gulf vital? 7. Did we consider it vital when Israel provided mine plows that were used to clear paths for allied forces through Iraqi mine fields? 8. Did we consider it vital to have the mobile bridges provided by Israel employed by the U.S. Marine Corps during the Gulf War? 9. Did we consider it vital that Israel Aircraft Industries developed conformal fuel tanks that enhanced the range of F-15 aircraft that were used in the Gulf War? 10. Did we consider it vital to have the Israeli recommendations, based upon its own system performance observations, which lead to several software changes, that made the Patriot a more capable missile defense system? 11. Did General Dynamics consider it vital that it has implemented a variety of a host of Israeli modifications to improve the F-16 aircraft fleet including structural enhancements, software changes, increased capability landing gear, radio improvements and avionic modifications? 12. Did we consider it vital to obtain Israeli-produced helicopter night-targeting system for use in increaseing the Cobra helicopter's night-fighting capabilities? 13. Did we consider it vital for Israel to produce the canister for the Tomahawk missile? 14. Did we consider it vital to obtain night-vision goggles for use by U.S. forces both during the Gulf War and afterwards? 15. Did we consider it vital when we adopted a low altitude warning system produced and developed in Israel to utilize on Blackhawk helicopters? 16. Did we consider it vital when Israel supplied equipment to U.S. forces included flack vests, gas masks and sand bags, during the Gulf War? 17. Did we consider it vital to ourinterests when Israel offered the United States the use of military and hospital facilities during the Gulf War? 18. Or when U.S. ships utilized the Haifa port shipyard maintenance and support on their way to the Gulf? 19. Did we consider it vital to US interests when we Israel's military intelligence, which had focused on Iraq much more carefully over the years than has the U.S. intelligence, for use during the Gulf War, and even up to the present day? - continued -
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 3:39:13 PM EDT
20. Can you think of one single, ding-dong time that the Palestinians have assisted our vital interests in any manner at all? 21. So are we supposed to 'ethnically cleanse' the Arabian peninsula of Arabs in order to have a Saudi Arabi who can be our trusted ally in the region, to hold down the Southern flank, you know, the way Israel is doing right now? 22. Well then, Sir, praytell how do we make certain this valuable real estate is 'firmly in our camp' when it is currently inhabited by folks who are 'not our friends'? Hmmm? 23. And another thing, my dear friend, where does this come from? 24. When have I ever, ever, ever called you or anyone you know of anti-semitic? Huh? 25. Yet you said you hesitated to use that phrase, ['Final Solution'] so why did you endorse someone else's use? [Your answer: 'I have read your response.'] 26. All of those contributions by Israel to the Defense of the United States and its troops and yet you say that 'one of their most important exports' is ecstasy? 27. Ecstasy is one of Israel's most important exports to the United States? 28. Is that what you're saying? 29. And even if what you say is true, how does it figure that the government or people of Israel are somehow guilty of these crimes? 30. OK, 5subslr5, you posted this on Page 3 of this thread and I asked you the source for your allegation for Israel being an exporter of Ecstasy to the US on Page 4. I gave you a list of a bunch of sites that fail to mention Israel as a source for Ecstasy in the US! Yet, you have not responded! 31. So, now tell me, Sub, how in the dickens are we to hold Israel to some sort of standard that even the United States doesn't meet? 32. With all due respect to Mr. O'Reilly and that unknown program from possibly the History Channel, the Israeli government is not an exporter of any illegal drugs, right? 33. I mean, get real! Or have you succumbed to the dreaded 'DuhMan' disease? Now, to be truthful, that final question was merely rhetorical, and I do not expect you to admit to 'DuhMan-itis' (who would?). So please finish your homework and answer the foregoing nice, polite, succinct questions, and I will be tickled pink to answer yours! Eric The(Egalitarian)Hun[>]:)]
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