Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 2/4/2002 9:25:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2002 9:33:13 PM EDT by JDP]
...Good thing I had a gun. (Seattle Area) About 8:45 PM on February 3rd, 2002, I was returning home from a birthday party with my girlfriend, driving northbound on Highway 167 in the Pacific/Algona area. Traffic was moving about 60-65 MPH and was moderately heavy with cars spaced evenly with about 2-3 car lengths in between the cars. Hwy. 167 is a 2-lane road in this area, with no carpool lane. I was in the #2 lane driving with the speed of traffic. I noticed a pair of headlights flying up behind me and then, presumably slamming on their brakes (I suddenly could not see the headlights as they dipped out of sight). Another vehicle pulled up to my passenger side and proceeded to push me off the side of the road; [u]Totally unprovoked. [/u] I slammed on my brakes to avoid a collision and after the vehicle (V1, a late model mid-size SUV, possibly a Ford “Tribute,” forest green or possibly dark gray in color) had moved over into my lane, it slammed on its brakes. I slammed my brakes to avoid the 2nd collision and moved over into lane #1. The first suspect vehicle was driven by a white male in his early twenties, short dark hair and wearing a black leather jacket. His passenger was an overweight Hispanic male, early twenties, wearing a black beanie cap with horizontal stripe across the brow and a waist-length black leather coat. The second suspect vehicle (V2, a late model Chevy Cavalier, burgundy in color) pulled up to my drivers side then swerved over into my lane. I slammed my brakes to both avoid the collision and to let the threats pass. But they also slowed and proceeded to make obscene gestures. The second suspect vehicle was driven by an overweight white female in her early twenties, stringy brown hair. Her passenger was either an effeminate white male in his teens or a petite female of about the same age, straight black hair, long on the sides. Since slowing down was not ridding myself of the threats, I tried speeding past the two vehicles with the hopes of getting away from them. However they pursued. After several miles of pursuit, I slowed down, allowing the vehicles to approach. I wanted to determine why they were following me in such a manner. I was driving in the #2 lane, the V1 pulled up to my passenger side in the #1 lane and I yelled out my window at him, asking him what his problem was. The driver’s response to me was “Pull over and find out. Come on, pull over I dare you and get your ass killed!” Needless to day, the G-friend was terrified! At this point on Hwy.167 around Emerald Downs, an HOV lane had developed on the left side of the road, and V2 had pulled into that lane next to me, lunging her car at my car from her lane. Being flanked by both V1 and V2, enduring their semi-coordinated efforts to hurt/kill myself and girlfriend, and clearly understanding the verbal intent of the driver, I instructed my girlfriend to call 911 on the cell phone to report what was happening. I read off the license plate #’s and descriptions of both vehicles and the drivers for the 911 dispatcher while simultaneously trying to evade their hostile actions. The 911 tapes can verify the entire transaction. cont...
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 9:27:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2002 9:29:08 PM EDT by JDP]
Continuing northbound on Hwy. 167, I outran V1, but V2 kept up and continued harrying me. I quickly took the 180th St. exit, but both vehicles followed me. I headed Westbound on 180th street with both vehicles following me. V1 caught up to me on my driver’s side, I slammed on the brakes and did a U-turn trying to evade them. They followed. I turned right on E. Valley Hwy and headed south, quickly putting as much distance between myself and the threat, but they continued to pursue. I took a right on 80th Avenue S, which basically doubles back toward 180th St. Once reaching 180th St., I took a left and headed West again resuming my old route. V1 was still pursuing me despite my every known effort to get the person to stop. I had lost V2 however. These guys were seriously motivated to catch me for some reason, as the kind of driving both of us were doing was not for the faint-of-heart. While being pursued Westbound on 180th St, the gates to a railroad crossing came down in front of me, blocking our escape. We were trapped, so I had to stop. V1 pulled up next to me on the driver’s side, and both driver and passenger jumped out of their SUV and began to walk toward my vehicle. At this point, I realized it wouldn’t just be a shouting match out of their window, so I drew my gun, jumped out of my car and pointed it at both of them. I had to take the fight to them as I didn't want to be trapped in my car. Before the suspects saw the gun in my hand and heard my commands, the driver said “what are ya gonna do now partnah?” in that sarcastic 'I'm gonna kick your ass' tone of voice. After I got verbal control of the suspects and had them show me their hands, I told them to leave us alone and go away, reminding them that I had given them every opportunity to cease their pursuit and not face their death. Hands in the air, they slowly got back in their vehicle and drove away. I pulled into an adjacent parking lot and waited for Renton PD to show up (1 hour later). Many lives were endangered by the suspect's [b]outrageous[/b] actions, not the least of which were mine and the G-friend's. The last thing I wanted to do is kill someone last night for some perceived slight on my part (remember, I didn't know these assholes from Dick, nor did anything to provoke their actions), but they would have been grease-spots had they not made the (correct) choice to leave the scene when they did. Nobody hurt, no property damage. I'm just glad I had my gun on me, it could have been BAAAAD if I didn't..... State patrol is investigating, I'll keep you posted. I'm not looking for pontificating master tacticians to critique my actions, frankly I don't care. I did want to underscore that CCW is VERY important.
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 9:37:39 PM EDT
Good for you.... you stayed cool. Friggin cops. If that happened down here in Dallas.... I would bet that these gung ho boyz would be all over something like that in minutes.
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 9:37:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2002 9:40:34 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 9:41:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 9:43:42 PM EDT
that just shows why ccw is wrong, you should have been a victim and we all would have been safer. seriously though, that is pretty crazy and it's good to hear you came out okay..1 hr for the police to show up!!! that's horrible..all they would have found were bodies. it's unfortunate that if you would have shot those losers, they would have been included in some 'gun violence' statistics or something equally asinine.
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 9:46:52 PM EDT
Whoa... sounds like quite the gut-check experience! You and your lady are alive and well, you got the coked-up jackasses' attention and sent them into retreat, and notified the law. All-in-all not at bad showing for yourself. [^] TGFCCW. Yet another gun incident we'll NEVER hear about on the news. "Non-news-worthy" of course because innocent people very effectively protected themselves with their own guns.
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 9:48:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 9:49:45 PM EDT
Hm.... story reminds me of one from about a year ago in a similar vein on this forum by a guy w/ the handle ChaZspaZ, but his took place in a subway train in Portland or someplace like that on the NW coast... Hmmmmm......[>:/] ............... "Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." --MILTON FRIEDMAN
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 9:53:46 PM EDT
There is [i]always[/i] a dumbass in the crowd. This is the reason I never leave the house without a weapon. Period. Two months ago something similar happened to me. It was a 3/4 truck. I lifted and left the right foot off the gas until I got down around 40 mph. They got bored and roared off. About 200 yrds later they were side by side with another car, then decided to swerve into that lane (doing 70 mph now). These two cars hit. The truck did not stop for 2 more miles. I met them both in the parking lot. Wanna bet I was armed? Statements were given. To say the least, them Do Right Boys really liked this dipshit's attitude. Bad things can happen any time to anyone for any reason. Always have a phone. If you can - carry a gun. Glad to see it worked out. Stay safe.
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 9:54:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2002 9:57:56 PM EDT by Ric_A]
It's great to hear you are ok and it was a very good idea to call 911 during the fact just incase if you ever had to go to court you did try other means to protect yourself before the use of force. Im just wondering why in your state(WA) you are allowed to have a CCW and not allowed to have SBR's or class 3? I was accually thinking about moving to Wa before i heard that,please tell me it aint so! I lived in Baltimore Md for 21 years(now going to school in Deleware) and you can not get a CCW to literally save your life unless you are a retired LEO. [b]"If you arent a part of the solution...you ARE part of the problem!"--- Join a pro-gun organization in your area![/b]
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 9:55:16 PM EDT
... Whew, I cannot EVEN imagine life without CCW. ... I would feel so naked and vulnerable. ... Good going dude and that was some excellent attention to detail, makes for a great witness.
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 10:19:34 PM EDT
JDP, I am so glad to hear that you and yours are safe!!! I read your account and thought of what would have been going through my head. 1st thing was, those dang police! To me it seemed like life or death. Maybe not to them. (No I am not cop bashing, just questioning why it took so long. My hats off to officers in general.) I have to admit, I don't carry a weapon as often as maybe I should. After reading this I think I may want to have it on me when traveling late night in secluded areas. A ccw is great to have but it does you no good without the weapon. Although maybe the card could cause a serious cut and infection. Bah, that's neither here nor there. I just had my wife read this and boy she was shocked. She grew up a rather sheltered life but since I have met her she has begun to get into guns and really sees the need for law abiding citizens to have the ability to utilize their rights! My wife's question is how long did all of this go on for? I am very happy to hear you handled it so well. Do you think you will follow up with the department? Please, keep us posted! Defcon
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 10:21:04 PM EDT
Thanks, JDP. You are [i]way[/i] cool under pressure. I got worked up just reading about this. You did everything right, up to and including coming back to post the story for us. Nice going. I'll show it to my wife. You make a good case for 'always'. Has the adrenaline rush subsided yet? Whew.
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 10:31:06 PM EDT
Glad everything worked out OK. You did everything you could to avoid the situation. Then when there was no other choice you drew your weapon.
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 10:37:16 PM EDT
way to go, bud; good job!
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 11:06:30 PM EDT
I realize it would have been inconvenient, but I think you should have held them at gunpoint until the cops arrived. Problem is, the cops probably won't do jack shit since no ossifers were around to witless it. No worries, though. The main thing is, you and your girlfriend didn't get hurt. You done good.
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 11:28:39 PM EDT
JDP, You did the right thing my friend. Glad to hear you guys are OK. Keep us posted.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 2:56:52 AM EDT
I'll bet if your Girlfriend had used the cell phone and told the police that you were had your gun out and were going to shoot they would have been there in a heartbeat. Why don't you post the liscense plate numbers of the vehicles, make. color, year, model so the fellow AR15.com'ers can help out. Perhaps one of out fellow NW AR15'ers who works for as an LEO can "make this a prioriorty". Good on you for keeping your cool.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 3:08:15 AM EDT
Luckily for them they decided to pick on you and not me. I don't think I would have had the restraint to not shoot. After the repeated threats on my life and the chase that you had just gone through, it is a pretty good bet that these guys meant serious bodily injury or death to you. I definately would have never let them back in their car because of the chance of there being any kind of weapon or the possibility of them trying to run you over with the car itself. Glad everything turned out for you ok though. Just think of it as a good cardivascular workout! [:)]
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 3:21:01 AM EDT
Way too much detail in the story! I concur with 95thFoot.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 3:29:20 AM EDT
I am not critizing but wondering why being in control the whole time, you wouldn't place them under citizen arrest at gunpoint and have the girlfriend dial in 911 again and explain the suspects were under citizen arrest being held at gunpoint? I am sure that would have expedited the response time? My point is fortunately it worked out ok, but what if they had subs or any other type of firearms in the car it could have been real messy... I just have the habbit of assuming worst case scenario all the time. Good story.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 5:26:11 AM EDT
this is the exact reason a license to CCW is BS [:(!] the gubermint should NOT have the authority to say who has the right for a CCW and the right for self defense. freaking mobacracy.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 5:37:17 AM EDT
I wonder what the response time would have been had your girlfriend signed off with: "Oh, never mind. He's got them at gunpoint and is locking them in their trunk. Have a good night."
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 6:08:38 AM EDT
I did want to underscore that CCW is VERY important.
View Quote
I am going to get my CCW......Thanks JDP. You are a good man.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 6:14:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 6:24:41 AM EDT
JDP, sounds to me like you did a great job of handling one of the hottest situations I've ever heard of. I'd like to think I would have done so well in such a situation. Personally, though, I'd have had to force these crackheads (or whatever they were) to open up the trunk of their vehicle and get in, then close the trunk on them so they could be kept under control until the cops arrived...and after waiting an HOUR for the police to arrive, you can be sure that I'd be having a nice little meeting with their watch commander and chief as soon as humanly possible. CJ
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 6:49:59 AM EDT
JDP, Great job! Sounds like a movie script too... You and your GF did exactly the right thing. I think the trunk idea is super...as is telling the lawmen that you have the drop on the bad guys. Might make them drop their dognuts and coffee and get to your pos with a bit more haste. Boy...one wiggle and I probably would have plugged the bastards...expecially after they tried to KILL me! Ya know...cops SHOOT perps that try that shit on them. I saw this newsie helo video once that showed a crowd of LEOs going Iwo Jima on this dude who tried to back out of a parking place and bumped an approaching officer. That dude's SUV looked like somebody had emptied five or six hi-caps mags into it...which they had. Hmmmmmmm... Just another of the millions of times each year that a law abiding citizen protects his life or that of a loved one with a firearm. Never hear about them in the media though...not a chance. Anyway...good job. KEEP US POSTED TOO!
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 7:03:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chipster: Way too much detail in the story! I concur with 95thFoot.
View Quote
Whatever. Good to hear that you're ok. After reading the story, I think you handled it flawlessly. You did whatever you could to distance yourself. You didn't provoke the situation. I would have handled it in a very similar manner. Your choice of action/s would have layed the appropriate legal groundwork necessary to defend yourself with your weapon, rather than just waving it around in a fit of anger. Nobody wants to kill anyone if at all possible, but at times it's necessary and covering your ass is a big part of a decission like that. That's what CCW is all about. Responsible people keeping themselves safe from violent people. You did exactly that.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 7:23:41 AM EDT
GOOD JOB!!!!!!!! With the girlfriend that was the thing to do..... No girlfriend....hold'em for the police...... 911 tape is very smart and could save your ass if things got bad. Very Good!!!
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 8:45:15 AM EDT
Glad everything turned out OK. It's amazing what the 'mere presence' of a firearm can do without having to resort to killing someone. If you're an NRA member, they could use a story like this in their 'Armed Citizen' section. Good job.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 9:07:30 AM EDT
I agree 100% with MC_MAN. I love reading those articles and I would love to see JDP's in there. Those articles have changed alot of people close to me minds because it is stuff that you don't hear in the news, EVER. Keving67
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 9:18:19 AM EDT
As they say in the Sure-Fire ad: "Five pounds of trigger pressure away from melon salad" [frag]
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 9:18:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chipster: Way too much detail in the story! I concur with 95thFoot.
View Quote
Exactly the reason I don't post about my scariest time!
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 9:32:48 AM EDT
Good for JDP, but I have the feeling that the next person/s that meet up with these guys won't be so lucky......
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 9:49:29 AM EDT
I had a near similar experience this weekend... Guy got pissed because he was in the wrong lane, and I wouldn't slam on my brakes and let him get in front of me. It wasn't MY fault his dumb ass was talking on the phone and wasn't paying attention to where he was going... so after he slowed down and got behind me, for a few seconds, nothing abnormal. Then he flies up on my ass, so I tap the brakes a few times, and he backs off a little. At this point, the freeway is turning into a 3 lane surface road, so we slow down and come to a light behind a few dozen cars... he jumps on my ass again, so I downshift into second and throw the clutch out to scare him, which worked. Some choice gestures from both of us fly up. He then pulls to my right, as I'm in the middle lane, and rolls down his window and starts yellin, STILL talking on his phone. To which I make the 'hang up' motion yellin at him to hang up and drive. Then I whip in front of him to get him away from me and he's still motioning and obviously yelling at me. Here I am at this point, stopping behind the cars in front of me, afraid he's gonna get out and approach me. I didn't have my pistol with me, as I don't have my CCW yet.... I was wishing I did. Anyway, luckily, traffic moves, and I haul ass through the light, and he ends up turning right on the street we were crossing. It's time to get my CHL. I'll have enough OT put in to get the class and the application out of the way here in a few weeks. M@
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 10:15:27 AM EDT
JDP - Ya, good thing you had a gun! I rarely go anywhere without mine. Not sure where Hwy 167 is? I live/work in the Seattle area (Eastside). I'm not really surprised at what happened, there are a lot of nuts on the road. I've wondered how I would handle the same type of situation. Sounds like you did a good job. Glad you and your gf are ok!
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 10:30:46 AM EDT
Too bad a friend of mine couldn't have gone with you on that ride, to learn why CCW is a good thing. What color was the cavalier?
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 10:52:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2002 10:54:13 AM EDT by JAW]
JDP, First off, let me join the chorus in saying "good job". As a fellow resident of WA, I am particularly disturbed by your story. I have a couple of questions: What is your carry weapon? Since this incident have you reconsidered either your carry weapon or whether you should carry a long gun in your vehicle? What other considerations/lessons have you gained from this experience? Thanks and best regards, JAW
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 11:13:20 AM EDT
GREAT JOB! Unfortunately I live in the Pineapple Republik of Hawaii (PRH) and can forget about ever getting a CCW! Heck, we're lucky to even be allowed to have guns! HPD, out illustrious police force are totally worthless. Their mindset is the criminal is the victim and the victim is the criminal! They can't shoot to save thier lives and are all on a head trip. I carry any friggin way. I had a similar incident happen to me about 2 years ago with two punks in a hopped up Honda. It was at night and these 2 Hawaiian punks decided it was "pick on me night". After some pretty close calls I decided nuff was enuff and pulled over. They jump out of their car and said I'd better be prepared to die. I told them "look VERY carefully at what was in my hands and think about who was gonna do the dying". They both just about shit their pants looking down the barrel of my Kimber 1911A1 loaded with Fed Hydra-Shocks! I did exactly what was suggested earlier and locked them pukes in their car trunk and left them there! Oh yea, I tossed the car keys into the Pacific ocean just for good measure! Nothing was ever said about it but the one cop friend I have told me that there was a lot of cracking up at the local PD about what someone did to them 2 punks and as it turned out, there was a warrant out for their arrest on drug trafficking. It was a win/win for al concerned! I look at the this way, better to be judged by twelve of my peers than carried by six of my pall-bearers! [peep]
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 11:18:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By progun: I did exactly what was suggested earlier and locked them pukes in their car trunk and left them there! Oh yea, I tossed the car keys into the Pacific ocean just for good measure![peep]
View Quote
To quote the Great One: "How sweet it is!"
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 12:04:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 95thFoot: Hm.... story reminds me of one from about a year ago in a similar vein on this forum by a guy w/ the handle ChaZspaZ, but his took place in a subway train in Portland or someplace like that on the NW coast... Hmmmmm......[>:/] I assure you sir, by the shit in my pants, it was the real deal. ............... "Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." --MILTON FRIEDMAN
View Quote
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 12:09:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Defcon: JDP, I just had my wife read this and boy she was shocked. She grew up a rather sheltered life but since I have met her she has begun to get into guns and really sees the need for law abiding citizens to have the ability to utilize their rights! My wife's question is how long did all of this go on for? Defcon
View Quote
It it hard to say just how long it all went on (stress makes you lose track of time) But at least 15 minutes and 20 miles covered.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 12:17:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed: I realize it would have been inconvenient, but I think you should have held them at gunpoint until the cops arrived. Problem is, the cops probably won't do jack shit since no ossifers were around to witless it.
View Quote
I certainly COULD have done a citizens arrest, but I just wanted for them to leave. I was outnumbered anyway, had no hand restraints, and their SUV had no "trunk" as most don't anyway. All the pertinent info (hopefully) had been recorded on 911 tape, so ID shouldn't be too hard. I am confident they will catch them. I just hope the prosecutors see that all the elements of a crime were there and act appropriately.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 12:23:05 PM EDT
[b]Originally Posted By JDP:[/b] I just hope the prosecutors see that all the elements of a crime were there and act appropriately.
View Quote
[devil's advocate mode on] What reason will you give if you're asked: "Why didn't you just stay in your car? Weren't you able to control your need/urge to finally confront them?"
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 12:23:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MC_Man: Glad everything turned out OK. It's amazing what the 'mere presence' of a firearm can do without having to resort to killing someone. If you're an NRA member, they could use a story like this in their 'Armed Citizen' section. Good job.
View Quote
Will do. Right now I am focusing on getting these guys their "just deserts" and try to keep myself out of hot water. Dealing with the Law is often a very slippery slope...
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 12:37:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JAW: JDP, First off, let me join the chorus in saying "good job". As a fellow resident of WA, I am particularly disturbed by your story. I have a couple of questions: What is your carry weapon? Since this incident have you reconsidered either your carry weapon or whether you should carry a long gun in your vehicle? What other considerations/lessons have you gained from this experience? Thanks and best regards, JAW
View Quote
1. Glock 27, Federal Hydrashocks. 2. I simply don't have enough room in my minitruck to fit a long gun. Plus, I just don't feel comfortable leaving a loaded long gun in my truck all the time. And I sure don't want to have to take it in and out every night. 3. Thanks for asking. Barring finding and prosecuting these guys, everything went OK. Reviewing the incident later to myself, the minutiae of things that could have gone wrong is immense. So I got lucky. My lesson-- [u] It's easier to act when you have the moral high ground[/u]. I knew I was right, and had the knowledge to deal with the situation. I am just glad I didn't have to kill anybody.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 12:43:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dolomite:
[b]Originally Posted By JDP:[/b] I just hope the prosecutors see that all the elements of a crime were there and act appropriately.
View Quote
[devil's advocate mode on] What reason will you give if you're asked: "Why didn't you just stay in your car? Weren't you able to control your need/urge to finally confront them?"
View Quote
Staying in the car would not necessarily have ensured my safety or my G-friend's. I had the tactical advantage of having the "drop" on them so I took it when it did me the most good. If I [b]had[/b] to use my weapon, I could do so more effectively from outside the car than inside. Plus, I wanted to try to take control of the situation ASAP, as it had already gone WAY too far.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 12:51:53 PM EDT
JDP, you set up your buddies to chase you just for an excuse to do some “Dukes of Hazzard” driving… Just kidding. You’re to be commended for your coolness under stress. A comment on high speed driving evasion: Its almost always futile. The Chase-e takes all the risks, The chase-r just has to keep up and takes much less risk being the second car. The longer the chase goes the more likely the chase-e makes a mistake and is forced to stop. Collision, vehicle malfunction, or railroad gates can all make the chase-r the winner. I don’t recommend pulling over and getting your ass kicked either… Just understand the risks of high speed evasion. Driving a big ass 4x4 helps a lot too. -MarkL32, big ass 4x4 owner, ccw enabled.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 12:58:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JDP: I had the tactical advantage of having the "drop" on them so I took it when it did me the most good.
View Quote
My friend, the phrase [b]"I feared for my life and the life of my companion"[/b] will, in the long run, save you a lot of time and trouble. I'd give the 'tactical advantage' stuff a rest, ESPECIALLY when John Law calls upon you.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 1:22:47 PM EDT
Please also consider the recommendation I made on another thread here, which is to carry a lunch bag full of large head roofing nails in your car. A double handful tossed out and backwards will stop pursuit cold. They always land point up, and are too numerous to avoid. Just consider it safety equipment.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top