If you know where a police station is, you can try to drive there. They can probably stir themselves to walk out the front door.

I've been thinking about carrying around some large zip-ties in the car. Cuffing someone is pretty risky, but it's cheap and might be useful sometime.

What happened with MAX-boy, btw? That thread got pulled.

Job well done, and you were right to forget the heroic's and let them leave. One comment that might have gotten you a faster response, and a not guilty by a jury, if there had been gunfire, during the '911' call mention you think you saw one of the BG's with an object that 'looked' like a gun...In a fight for your life, and your loved ones, all's fair....a cool hand, and presence of mind, and a G-27 won.

                       GIB

JDP,

Excellent job. Given your situation AND given all the criticism and suggestions, positive or negative, I believe you made the best choices at every point. I pray never to be in such a situation, and pray I will act this way if I ever do find myself in one.

I have GOT to get my CCW. Carrying my 1911 locked, unloaded and separate from the ammunition will not do.

All my friends flip out when I tell them I sleep with a loaded gun near my bed (no children, gun goes in safe when I have guests), and I don't even live in an urban area! Not one of my friends practices with a handgun more than once or twice a year - and only one even owns a handgun.

What IS this world coming to?

Sorry to get off topic. I've often wondered what I would want to do in a similar situation, and I think the fact that you tried every method of "walking away" from the fight, before forcing them to "walk" or engage, was brilliant. Not only was it ethically correct, but legally it may save one's hide.

Semper Fi

I think you showed great courage.

I love it!  Good job!
Haaaaahahahaha!  

I lived there five years....he's right on.  Guns are a no-no in aloha land.

JDP,

FYI...if you are interested there is a Washington State Concealed Carry egroup at
[email protected]

[i][b]HEY JACKASS[/b][/i]

The last god damm thing you need is a CCW!

What you need is a serious ass kicking!

Any dumbass that provokes this type of behavior is JUST as guilty. The last thing that needs to be injected into the situation is a gun.

No shit...  much less a car.

Fencer,

Go get your license...but before you do...take a minute to read this.

First of all, please understand that I'm trying not to be judgemental here.  Rather I'm want to pass along to you just a bit of free advice about the rules governing the use of your firearm and the use of deadly force.

Based on what you have said, it is a good thing you were not carrying and you did not get deeper into a situation where you had to protect yourself with deadly force.  Had you shot the other guy, I think you would be doing a very long stretch for and almost assuredly unjustifiable homocide.  Your actions clearly were not those of a person really trying to avoid a conflict.  Rather you say you provoked the SOB...not once but several times (tapping your brakes?).  That is simply NOT permissable when carrying.  If you are armed, you have a responsibility to do everything in your power to avoid conflict...even if it involves stupid ass holes like the one you describe in your story.  If it means you drive like an old grandma from now on...then so be it.  When there is a chance of someone being shot, you should try very hard to defuse the situation, including leaving the immediate vicinity or in this case, simply by stopping and letting the guy pass you.

Remember, you are armed...and you have his life and your freedom in your hands.  Death is not reversible and taking a life is...well you don't really want to do it.  You must not use that weapon except as permitted by the laws of Texas.

Please attend the classes and read up on the rights and responsibilities of carrying concealed before you get your license and begin packing.  We'd hate to read about you over our morning coffee.

I have been carrying for years.  I have had a couple of minor encounters with baddies...and in each case, I simply walked away.  My wife was with me...and she got a bit scared.  I gently reassured her and reminded her to remain calm because of my [other] constant companion [P-99] in my waistband.  Knowing I could handle the situation no matter what gave me a calm resolution.  I had no need to get rowdy.  I didn't slap leather, I didn't get in their face and take a threatening attitude either.

It is very important that each of us who carries does his or her part to maintain a low profile and never slap leather unless the situation absolutely demands it.  We must never give the antis any leverage to be used against us to take away our rights.

Good luck on getting your license soon.

[soapbox]

wow.. i really can't think of anything to say, you did great, and you are alive.  keep us posted bud.

Oh goodie, I am an urban "legend"!  

But I will take your apology sirs.  I don't think I need to justify myself here, but I will do so here because it's a story that needs to be told and understood.


[b]Point 1[/b]  "Road rage" is only a small part of the bigger picture here.  What the driver of V1 told me (basically "I'm gonna kill you"), was 4th Degree Assault in WA St. Their actions corroborated those words. This is a felony. When I recognized their intent, 911 was called and evasive action was taken.

If I had to guess [u]why[/u] they did what they did, and only a guess, I might have gotten in the middle of a road race between the friends and they took it out on me.  That's the only thing I can think of, otherwise I just don't know. Hopefully, if and when they find these guys, we can find out exactly why.

[b]Point 2[/b]  I don't know what to tell you there.  We were expecting the cops to show up as shit was going down, or shortly thereafter, but we kept waiting and waiting.  

The officers who did end up responding apologized for their tardiness, claiming that they had been busy that night (Superbowl weekend). They were preoccupied with something that was going on police radio and were distracted while we were telling them the story.  In the end,  they said "Not in our Jurisdiction, sorry.  We will notify WSP."

[b]Point 3[/b]  The G-friend was the one on the phone while I was driving.  I asked her just now if they gave her any directions as to what to do, and she said they didn't. I was continually calling out my location so they knew where we were,  but we were driving so fast and covering so much ground at times, it would have been hard to catch up.  

When I originally posted "all that detail," it was just cut and pasted from my Victim Statement submitted to the WSP. Sorry about providing you too much info.

[b]Point 4[/b]  I would have opened myself up to being broadsided by V1.  Plain and simple.  I didn't want to give them the chance to do so.

I am also awed.  I am not worthy!

Sounds like you did it right.  You were very  lucky they did not have a gun after you let them go.  Maybe you could have took the keys, disabled the car?

Main thing is you survived, and stayed out of court.   Nice job!

Yes indeed.  Assholes like this really do exist.  I've encountered some myself, and I didn't own a firearm back then.  Thankfully, I outran them and I now carry my pistola with me when I remember (not often enough).

DK-Prof,

Not only do such psychos exist, there seem to be more and more of them. I can't offer any explanations why it happens. It just seems like more and more drivers are completely losing it at little or no provocation. Things that you might think would pose just the slightest of inconvenience cause others to explode into blind rage. I see and experience examples of this behavior at least once a month.

The most bizarre was a toll booth experience. The booth I was passing through didn't have a gate. After paying the toll, I eased off the brakes and just barely started the car moving. But the "Thank You" light didn't change right away so I hesitated. The SUV behind me immediately started laying on the horn. When I glanced in the rearview mirror, I could see an older man flailing away at his steering wheel, completely enraged. Did that slight hesitation justify his rage? I wouldn't have thought so....

[devil's advocate mode on]
What reason will you give if you're asked:

"Why didn't you just stay in your car?  Weren't you able to control your need/urge to finally confront them?"[/quote]

I balance my checkbook, and have heat and airconditioning in my house, guess I cant control my need/urge to control my financial future and or modify my enviroment.  Staying in the car is not a safe option, what if you stayed in the car and they took baseball bats to the windows and you got glass in your eyes, much better to follow human nature and take control of the situation.  

"and if they're not here in 2 minutes,just send a meat wagon"
Good job bro!

What's interesting and scary about this is the entirely unprovoked nature of the attack. I had something similar (but not as drastic) happen to me about a year ago when I was waiting at a red light on a four lane surface road at about midnight.

I heard squealing tires and turned to my left to see a car with its brakes locked up screech to a stop in the left turn lane next to me. The noise of the tires squealing had caught my attention, but after a second or two I looked back up to the light to see if it had changed. Next thing I know, one of the guys (late teens-early 20s) in the car had gotten out and was yelling at me asking why I'd called him a "M-F'er". I was confused because I hadn't said anything, and didn't know him and couldn't quite wrap my brain around what was happening.

I tried replying that I hadn't called him anything when he got to my door and tried to open it. It was locked, so he reached in the 2 or 3 inch gap I had in the window for ventilation and started pulling on the window. I realized I had to get out of there, NOW, so I made sure there was no cross traffic, ran the (still) red light, and took off. I was able to get far enough away that I made a turn onto a side street before he could get back in his car and see where I went. I may have run over his foot when i took off, but I don't know for sure.

The thing that scared me at the time, and still does, is the entirely random and unprovoked nature of the incident. I didn't have a CCW then, (still dont, but will soon) and if I wouldn't have been able to get away I would have been in trouble. When I get my CCW, I plan on carrying EVERYWHERE just in case something else like this happens again.

Damn I live right 5 minutes from emerald downs. Think I'll change my carry to something with more rounds.

To anyone who thinks that this was made up then you have never had anything like this happen to you.

I was with my wife on I-15 just past Miramar in San Diego in her Camery at 0200 and we were chased by 2 cars that were both filled with "homies" from Riverside. They blocked me in from the front and the side and kept me from speeding up or changing lanes. The kept this up for about a mile, as I kept slowing down they did too. I didn't have a cell phone and at the time I didn't carry. When we got to Ted Williams I tried to pull off the freeway, but the guy on the side dropped back, the guy in front slammed on his brakes.
I jumped on the gas and went around that car, as I went past the bitch in the passenger side pulled out a big revolver and pointed it me.
I made it to the onramp to Ted Williams and flipped a 180 and exited off the onramp. Both cars had overshot the enterance. I stopped at the onramp turn on and looked. One car was sitting on the overpass, the other was nowhere to be found. I ended up going around and hopping back on the freeway heading south and went on base at Miramar. I stopped at base security, told them what happened, called both the CHP and the SDPD. Neither of them came out to take a report, they both took the liscense plate number and descriptions. I got a call from the CHP about three days later and told me that one car was traced back to Riverside, the other was a stolen car from Orange County.
We got a cell phone and I started carrying everywhere I went after that...Even in Cali.
Unless this has happened to you there is no way to understand this.

JDP, stop acting dumb and shut the $%*^ up. This could turn in to a legal matter and it's best not to say anything unless directed by an attorney. I'm always amazed by these type of posts here and the disconnect between brain and keyboard. You should edit your post and remove the content. If legal action is talking by the authorities, you will not have the right to claim attorney-client priviledges.

I had a similiar incident one day. A guy followed me around Richmond for 45 minutes after a near collision on Powhite one day. At the time I was 18 or nineteen. As soon as I turned 21 a glock and a ccw permit has been by my side!

Sounds like you handled the situation well. When that train stopped you, you were out of options. Still, I wonder what other plans you would have had if the train had not blocked you? I wonder if it would be legal to nerf the other car off the road? I know the police do this sometimes in dangerous chases. I don't know what you were driving, but would it be possiple to find a straight, mostly empty road and outrun them? Perhaps drive into the police station parking lot?

As for the guy who spoke of carrying in HI, I would be very reluctant to post about such things, since you never know who might be reading these boards. Good job, though.

This kind of thing truly scares me. I plan on getting my CCW here in FL when I turn 21 in a little over a week. And I might pick up something to carry too [:)]. I just took the NRA saftey class last weekend (shot the best groups in the class, too).

[b][i]TO ANYONE THAT THINKS THIS WAS MADE UP[/I][/B]


While I can not attest to the accuarcy of this story, I can attest to the following:


I had a friend - nice guy, true hayseed - didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground about shakedown street.

Two nights before things went bad for him - a white stabbed a black downtown on the waterfront. The police to a beating on way they handled it.

The colored section of town is 3 minutes by freeway from where my friend was found.

The police assume he was at a stop light adjacent to the freeway on ramp, a car pulled along side, words were exchanged - they found his car crashed into the side of the tunnel (just on the freeway - like he was trying to get away). He was shot dead - in the head.

To this day, his killer or killers have never been caught.

You are responsible for your own safety.

I don't understand why people would think this sort of thing was made up -- hey guys, criminals are out there, that's why we carry guns.

Most of these incidents are probably best explained as criminals out looking for someone to rob/beat up/rape/kill/have fun with.

Here in WA, we had a Navy lieutenant randomly murdered on one of the highways, shot by a known criminal with a .22 rifle just because the criminal was bored.  I've had a car "buzzing" mine -- passing at high speed about an inch away from my car, then slowing to get behind me again, then repeating -- at 2am on a Saturday night on I-5.  Someone deliberately tried to get into a fenderbender with a friend of mine, then when he stopped, three people piled out of the other car and tried to jump him.

Some people do this sort of thing for fun, others for profit.  Deal with it. . . .

WELL, IF YOU DON'T KNOW MY NAME, I DON'T KNOW HOW ANYONE ELSE WOULD...

Always a shadetree lawyer in the bunch.