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Posted: 1/31/2002 7:50:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 7:55:16 PM EDT
A nice cheap reliable Mossberg 12ga. should do the trick. Slugs or buckshot should fill all his needs. Can be fired by anybody, even the inexperienced.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 7:58:35 PM EDT
A cheap S&W Revolver, or a CZ-52. Both over-engineered and will last a long time.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 8:01:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch: A nice cheap reliable Mossberg 12ga. should do the trick. Slugs or buckshot should fill all his needs. Can be fired by anybody, even the inexperienced.
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A most exellent choice.Very good advice my .02$
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 8:11:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch: A nice cheap reliable Mossberg 12ga. should do the trick. Slugs or buckshot should fill all his needs. Can be fired by anybody, even the inexperienced.
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There isn't a criminal in the world the doesn't know what sound of a pump action shotgun sounds like.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 8:17:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 9:21:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2002 9:24:50 PM EDT by Vinnie]
But a pump action would eat up the budget for ammo. I'd go with either a single shot or side by side 12 guage for around or under 100, that's 100 bucks left for ammo. What's simpler to explain how to use then a break open shotgun? 10/22 would be too expensive, considering it around 150 bucks, but the ammo is cheap enough. SKS, again just under 200 which doesn't leave alot of room for ammo. (Even Wolf)
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 9:55:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2002 10:00:22 PM EDT by MAC-DADDY]
Mossberg 12ga.(used)120$ 100rnds #OO buck 60$ (#OO too much recoil?) get #6 or #7shot...low recoil Peace of mind PRICELESS BTW,pump guns are EASY to train beginners with safe handling and operation. 5 rnds per person (for training)= 75 to 85rnds left for home defense (MORE than enough) total cost 180$ w/ 20$ for gas to go to range problem solved
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 10:08:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2002 10:09:57 PM EDT by Cypher214]
Crossman Airgun, spend the remaining money on a baseball bat. Train the teenage son to shoot the airgun fairly well. This way he can remain hidden whilst repeatedly pelting the assailant's eyes. Your friend can then sneak up behind the assailant and smack the shit out of him with the bat. Problem solved. Edited cause Huked on Foniks Wurked 4 Me
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 11:08:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 11:48:50 PM EDT
> Buckmark (I paid $160 > Mossberg 12ga.(used)120$ Only $160 for a used Buckmark and only $120 for a used Mossberg pump? I need to start shopping where you guys do. I've never seen a used Mossberg for less than you could buy one new at Wal-Mart. If I saw one for only $120, I'd sell something to buy it. I've always wanted a pump. Back to the topic, my vote is for an old revolver. An S&W is overkill on quality. You could save a little money by buying, for example, an old Colt Police Positive Special. That would give you more money to spend on ammo. While I like the SKS, have a Mosin, and personally want a pump, I don't feel comfortable using any of those inside a house much less feel comfortable being in a house with an inexperienced person wielding one. Of course, if they don't want(or can't) to go to the trouble to get permission to buy a handgun, then I'd recommend the shotgun with the lowest recoil ammo you can find.z
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 11:33:28 PM EDT
Yugoslavian SKS with pigsticker for $149 all over the place. $25 dollar transfer fee and $15 to ship. Under $200 for the gun. Ammo still runs $80 per 1K. So buys two boxes to familarize with gun and then saves for the first case. Then they are on their way to becoming one with the "gun culture". Good work[;)]!
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 11:42:07 PM EDT
I agree with buying the shotgun. You can buy 100rnd of #7 birdshot at Wal-Mart for $13.97. Makes for some cheap shooting.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 12:04:59 AM EDT
The instant he starts talking about hunting AND home defense, that limits you to a 12ga. A .22LR just plain isn't useful for home defense. He should be able to find a Remington 870 in his price range. 12ga, of course. Normally, I would say save a while longer and get an 11-87, but if his budget [i]really[/i] is only $200. . . . He can use it for hunting anything from birds to deer. And if he has to repel boarders, as long as he doesn't have to go running through the house, a 12ga works great. The only thing it isn't good for is CCW. For that, he could save another few months and get a Makarov.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 4:02:20 AM EDT
Have him spend more and get what he really thinks he might need. Why limit yourself to a paltry $200 dollars when he thinks he might actually need to use this gun in self defense or a SHTF scenario. Is his family's life only worth 200 dollars? Have him drink water for a few months instead of coffee or sodas. IF he is REALLY serious about getting a gun for those reasons he stated, he needs to not think about $. (to a certain extent)
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 4:04:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 4:16:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2002 4:18:26 AM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 4:22:47 AM EDT
Heavens to Betsy, yes. It has to be a pump shotgun. Ammo at Wallyworld is cheap, and the gun offers high firepower and ease of use for low price. Since paying for surgery for his dear grandmudder left him with only $200 for protecting his family's life, I suggest that you, as his dear friend, spring for a box of ammo and some range time so he has some practice with the shotgun. That way the first time he uses it won't be the last.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 4:40:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2002 4:53:13 AM EDT by Tinker]
$200 is not enough to do the job right, but given that limit, I suggest the Rossi Matched Pair. I paid $99 for a single shot 20 ga with a .22 LR barrel just a couple of months ago. You can get a .22/.410 combo, and the maker claims to have 12 ga versions, though I've never seen them. They even claim to have a .223/shotgun combo. Again, never seen one. These weigh about 5 pounds (a bit less with the .22 barrel, a bit more with the 20 ga barrel). Make a nice piece for an emergency kit for campers, hikers, backwoodsmen, etc. That leaves $100 to practice with. Eventually a real home defense piece can be purchased and the .22/20 ga can still fill in the game-hunting role.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 4:48:42 AM EDT
I'd suggest a shotgun. Seeing that this guy is on a very small budget and wants something for protection I don't see any other choice. With a $200 budget this guy obviously isn't going to be hitting the range and getting extrememly proficient with his new weapon either. A shotgun is a point and click item out of the box. Do you really want this guy taking pot shots at an intruder/terrorist/whatever with a high powered rifle? Even a .22LR would be dangerous to others nearby and I think would be a terrible choice anyway because of the lack of stopping power. I'd take a knife over a .22LR any day.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 5:01:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 5:15:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: It never ceases to amaze me that people can not follow directions or work within the stated parameters. There is only $200 to spend. Maybe there was a sick family member, maybe they are unemployed due to a layoff at the factory, whatever the reason. There is only $200 to spend, how due you best meet his varied requirements with the resources at hand... in this case $200. The issue is not what his family may or may not be worth, saving isn;t an option - there is an immediate need for protection, and no you can not loan him one of your's. God almighty, try to follow directions or back to kindergarten with you. I am very cranky. I wish Spearweasel would do something to yank my chain.
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Take the $200 and invest it in the 2002 equivalent of the 1999 Dot.Com, once we figure out what that is. It will quickly turn into $17,000, which can be reinvested. Assuming your friend gets out of the stock market before the next bubble bursts, he can take his now $45,000,000 investment and buy a killer robot with lasers and a chainsaw blade instead of a hand. This will certainly protect him more effectively than any puny shotgun, SKS, or .22 rifle.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 5:40:17 AM EDT
An important consideration is the fit of the weapon to the user. Assuming that the wife and kid are smaller stature than the husband, the SKS is probably the best all around weapon. The other long guns will probably have too long of a length of pull. Of course the family could get a shorter stock put on the 12 ga. or the 22 later, when their finances are better. Politically correct mode on. SKS's seem to have been designed for people of smaller stature than the average American. Politically correct mode off.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 5:44:51 AM EDT
I'd go with a 12 guage pump. I"m partial to the Remington 870 and its variants. For practice I would buy a box of target loads for $4. This will get them used to operating the shotgun, learn how to 'aim' it, etc. Then, after they are used to the gun, let them shoot a box of buckshot loads so they can feel the difference in recoil.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 6:03:40 AM EDT
Mossberg combo 12ga. good barrel for hunting with interchangeable chokes and slug barrel for big game, whether two legged or four. Easy to master and any intruder hearing the pump action closing will know you mean business and have to decide how much trouble they really want.[shotgun]
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 6:09:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 6:53:50 AM EDT
Inexpensive .22 autoloader, like a Marlin tube fed. If the family is serious about survival, a .22 will collect plenty of small game. A .22 rifle is better than nothing for defense and it's THE entry level weapon. If there is a will there will be a way to get a better piece of ordnance. Skip dinner out, quit smoking pot for a week, pass up happy hour, don't order WWF Summer Slam on the pay-per-view, whatever it takes.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 7:08:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2002 7:22:12 AM EDT by monkeyman]
A 22LR autoloader is a good choice. I prefer a detachable magazine rifle so you can keep it unloaded and then quickly snap in a mag if needed. Tube fed autos are a pain to load fast and I wouldn't want to leave one around the house loaded.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 7:10:38 AM EDT
your hypothetical home-defense-challenged friend should be able to buy a decent shotgun for under $200. he and his family dont need much practice to defend his castle with it, and in a pinch he can hunt with it too.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 7:16:03 AM EDT
Hey! I followed instructions!!! I still say for 200 bucks you buy a New England Firearms single shot 12 guage for 100 bucks or under and 100 bucks worth of buckshot/slugs. Actually let me ammend that 80 bucks of shells and use the 20 bucks for a belt/bandoler of shell holders, that way you have them handy to move around the house with.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 8:44:20 AM EDT
I wouldn't suggest a single shot firearm for defensive purposes. The exception would be if there were very limited training time available as well as limited funds, in which case the single shot's simplicity of operation might outweight its deficiencies in rate of fire.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 3:14:55 PM EDT
howabout a used lever action 30-30, or even a .357mag?
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 5:04:29 PM EDT
Given just $200 and the whole family has to share it, my first choice would be a used 12ga pump. This assumes they are willing to practice a bit and can all be comfortable defending their lives with it. Like earlier advice, they may want to take a turn at a trap/skeet range before going this route. I am sorry, but I don't think a .22 will cut it. Sure, it is better than nothing, but just does not have the stopping power I would bank my life on. The only up side is that the ammo is cheap enough that they could practice all the time, and preparation is as important as anything when defending your life. My alternative choice would be an old .38 police revolver. It is simple to operate, and relatively easy for smaller hands to grip. You can practice with light loads, to minimize beginner fear. It is also easier to secure than a long gun, since children might be around. I have taught several new women shooters, most of them purchased a revolver after shooting several of my guns.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 10:47:40 PM EDT
In this price range, he probably needs to be looking at a used (or military surplus) firearm. I’d suggest running the following three options past him and his family. 1 – .38 or .357 Magnum revolver, possibly a police trade-in. 2 – 12 gauge pump shotgun, any decent brand. (I could see barrel length being an issue here.) 3 – 30-30 Marlin or Winchester lever action rifle. A 12 gauge pump is probably the most versatile firearm made. I don’t see how he could possibly go wrong by getting one. I’d avoid any firearm using uncommon ammunition.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 11:16:26 PM EDT
Major second on the pump shotgun, but I'm a shade leery about the 12ga idea - mostly because I know nothing about the wife or children... For good home defence, I'd be more likely to recommend a 16ga or a .410 - either has half or less the recoil than the 12ga (IIRC,) are available in pumps (intimidation factor) and still use fairly common ammo - tho I think the .410 is easier to find than the 16ga. A 12ga can be purchased later as proficiency rises and funds become available. I would forego any sort of rifle for home defence - even a carbine. The shotgun allows for "stress" in aiming, and ammo selection can all but eliminate overpenetration and the endangering of the neighbours. Try to find loads in #4 buckshot - they are the first choice and nearly idea for indoor use. Light birdshot can be about as effective as rock salt, so go with 0 or 00 if you can't find #4. Educate EVERYONE on the proper use of the shotgun - take them out YOURSELF and give a "family" lesson. If you leave it to your buddy, he is likely to forget something important (he doesn't have the background you likely have.) The teaching experience will help you immensely as well, as it will force you to examine your own knowledge... The shotgun also offers solid, reliable service in H2H, and butt-stroking and other H2H methods should be included as the students improve. Hold group lessons with them on a monthly basis, and require AT LEAST TWO practise sessions between lessons. If you expect to live or die by a skill, the least you can do is constantly improve it. Spring for ammo if you have to. Where are you? If anywhere in the SF Bay Area, let me know and I'll be happy to help with gunhandling and the like if you need it... Also, feel free to ask anything else you might need to know. I've been teaching self-defence for a while now. I don't claim to be an expert, but I am still alive... FFZ dragonland@juno.com
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 7:08:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Renamed: I wouldn't suggest a single shot firearm for defensive purposes. The exception would be if there were very limited training time available as well as limited funds, in which case the single shot's simplicity of operation might outweight its deficiencies in rate of fire.
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I agree, but with the $200 limit, anything over 100 would eat into the ammo budget, so I'd rather have a single shot that a pump action stick.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 7:57:59 AM EDT
I agree a used pump shotgun would be a good choice. It is simple to operate, reliable, and gives a little more margin for error as far as aiming. Very quick follow-up shots. I would really hesitate to use a single shot for close quarters self-defense. Less legal problems associated with a shooting as compared to a SKS. Buckshot will also probably do much more damage than a 7.62x39 FMJ. I'd look for a 21" or shorter barrel. Really, with a pump shotgun you will not be outgunned by any intruder. I would get a used 12, 16 or 20 gauge, with the 20 being the preferred choice. It has cheap ammo, less recoil, and is still plenty lethal. Buy 20 rounds of buck ($10), 100 rounds of birdshot ($12), and you still have $178 for the gun. The birdshot could be used for practice or for self-defense at very short ranges.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 9:05:44 AM EDT
My local sporting goods store has the Maverick pump guns for about $180,12 or 20ga. If the kid is going to use it, and he's under 15, and depending on the size of the wife, consider a 20 ga. also. Ammo is a little more expensive. For real fun, check out "The Shorty"! http://www.serbu.com/shorty.htm
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 9:59:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2002 10:02:29 AM EDT by Vinnie]
Again, it depends on the situation. If one were to just "hold one's position" a single shot with a few hundred shells of ammo would be fine. If you were to go on a "seek and destroy" mission through your house in search of the bad guy, then you definitely want more than one shot redily availible. As fas as being a minimalist on home defense, for 200 bucks a singleshot would do just fine. a Side-by-side would be better, if you could find it for 100 bucks. I say 100 on the gun, 100 on the shells.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 10:16:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Vinnie:
Originally Posted By Renamed: I wouldn't suggest a single shot firearm for defensive purposes. The exception would be if there were very limited training time available as well as limited funds, in which case the single shot's simplicity of operation might outweight its deficiencies in rate of fire.
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I agree, but with the $200 limit, anything over 100 would eat into the ammo budget, so I'd rather have a single shot that a pump action stick.
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I don't think that a newbie would want to fire $100 worth (250 shells of buckshot?) of 12 gauge ammo, especially through a lightweight single shot. At $150, you might find a decent used pump action shotgun and still have $25 for training ammo plus $25 for "operational" ammo.
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