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Posted: 1/31/2002 6:55:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2002 6:58:42 PM EDT by Corey]
Here is the text of an email recently received by Dick Baker, Treasurer of the Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association:
Senate majority leader Chuck Chvala has vowed to keep the concealed carry bill from coming to a vote in the state senate. Senator Dave Zien is going to try to bypass Chvala by forcing a vote. To do this he needs 16 of the 33 state senators to vote with him. Your state senator may be the one who will cast the deciding vote. Senator Zien and Representative Gunderson have done just about all they can to get this bill passed. Now it's up to us. Please take just five minutes to hand-write a letter to your state senator. Phone calls aren't always logged, and emails are ignored. Hand write a letter. Today. The legislature is only in session until March 14th, so it's absolutely imperitive that you write immediately. You can find your state senator at [url]http://www.legis.state.wi.us/wamltest[/url]. Be firm, but polite. Below are some sample letters to use as a guide. Please reword them so that they sound like your writing. And, again, please write today. And forward this email to every gun owner you know. Thank you, The Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association [url]http://www.wisconsinconcealedcarry.com[/url] Sample letter #1: Dear (Senator X), State Senator Zien and Representative Gunderson have introduced legislation to allow licensed and trained Wisconsin citizens to carry concealed weapons. I have been in many of the states that have similar laws, and can tell you that they work. What I cannot understand is why our legislators here in Wisconsin are so stubborn when it comes to treating our citizens the same way other states treat theirs. This issue is important to me, and I urge you to vote for the concealed carry bill. I have supported you in past elections. My support for you in future elections will be closely tied to how you vote on this issue. Yours truly, name address phone number Sample letter #2: Dear (Senator X) As you are probably aware, there is legislation being proposed that would allow Wisconsin citizens to be licensed to carry concealed weapons. As a law-abiding citizen of this state, I feel that it is an insult to me to be told by certain legislators that I cannot be trusted to carry a weapon for self defense. I often have to travel to dangerous areas in the cities in Wisconsin, and it is sometimes a frightening experience. The criminals are already carrying guns; why can't I carry one to defend myself against them? If I lived in just about any other state, it would be legal for me to do so. In the past I have given time and money to your campaigns. Whether I do so in the future depends upon your vote on this issue. Sincerely, name address phone number
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EDITED to fix code.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 6:56:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2002 7:02:21 PM EDT by Corey]
con't.
Sample letter #3: Dear (Senator X), Recently legislation was introduced in the Assembly and the Senate to create a system for licensing Wisconsinites to legally carry concealed weapons. I have researched this issue extensively, and have found that the experiences of the 44 states that allow legal concealed carry prove that such systems work. What I have not been able to find is proof for the arguments made against concealed carry. None of the states have turned into the Wild West. There haven't been shootings at every fender-bender. None of the "doom and gloom" arguments are true. This is an important issue to me as well as to thousands of your other constituents. Rest assured that we all will be watching your vote carefully. I have voted for you in the past, and hope to be able to do so in the future. Thank you for your time. name address phone number Sample letter #4: Dear (Senator X), As a law enforcement officer, I have watched with great interest the progress of the concealed weapons carry legislation authored by senator Zien and Representative Gunderson. I've also had discussions about this issue with my fellow officers, and we're almost all in agreement: Wisconsin needs concealed carry. As hard as my fellow officers and I try, we can't arrive at the scene of a crime in time to stop it. And we get tired of going home at the end of a shift wishing we could have done more for a citizen. As a citizen, as well as a law enforcement officer, I'm asking you to vote for the concealed carry legislation. Thank you, name address phone number
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I also have a more detailed sample letter which I wrote and would be happy to email you. Shoot me an email and I'll send it out to you. You may or may not like it, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that you scribble "Dear Senator, please support SB 357, the Personal Protection Act, signed your constituent" on a dinner napkin and SEND IT IN!! Dick has told me in an email that Senator Zien is going out on a limb to try and bypass the Senate Judiciary Committee to get the PPA to the floor for a vote. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Chvala has vowed to stop legal CCW by any means necessary and has stalled the bill. We need to support Senator Zien's bypass attempt by writing our senators voicing our support for this. We need 16 out of 33, and there are 15 Republicans in the Senate. Dick has assured me that there are a surprising number of progun Democrats in the Senate. Maybe after 9/11 and the embarassment of the caucus scandal, they will break ranks from Chvala and vote with their conscience. So please, WI residents take 15 minutes to print out a form letter and send it to your senator. Have your wife, neighbor, and co-workers do it as well. Heck, I've been sending out pre-printed letters to people. Maybe you can bring a few in to work, etc., and promise that if they sign it you'll even mail it. Now is the time. If we don't get it this year and you didn't write a letter, you have no right to complain. EDITED to add: Let me know if you need me to send you hardcopies of the sample letter for you to fill in and send. Also, forward this link on to others via email to pass the word.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 7:09:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 8:12:54 PM EDT
Good for you tattoo! Let's get this thread out to all the WI residents here! And I'm serious about sending you out a ream of blank letters (if you're serious about sending them). My wife's law firm is picking up the tab for most of this, so I have about 50 large priority envelopes ready to go. I could easily copy the form letter I wrote. Just email me a request, your address, and a promise to send them all out within a few days of receipt.
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 5:43:41 PM EDT
BTT Any chance we can get a thumbtack on this one?
Link Posted: 2/4/2002 7:39:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 6:54:26 AM EDT
I thought Minnesota has some form of CHL -- permissive issue, maybe? I heard that Gov. Ventura is ready and waiting to sign a shall issue into law if it gets to his desk. Good luck. Come on Wisconsinites -- let's keep this on top!! Email this link to friends, family, etc. and get them to call or write their senators in support of this. THE NEXT MONTH AND A HALF WILL DETERMINE WHETHER WE GET CONCEALED CARRY IN WI. Now is the time to do something!
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 12:09:38 PM EDT
BTT -- where are all the WI members?
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 12:15:19 PM EDT
Here's what I wrote to Peggy Rozenweig - Dear Senator Rozenweig: Recently legislation was introduced in the Assembly and the Senate to create a system for licensing Wisconsinites to legally carry concealed weapons. As a law-abiding citizen of this state, I feel that it is an insult to me to be told by certain legislators, predominately Senator Chuck Chvala, that I cannot be trusted to carry a weapon for self defense. In light of the constant barrage of anti-self defense sentiment we are regularly subjected to by the television news and other media outlets, it is easy to understand how many people could find the aspect of an armed citizen as a crime deterrent to be somewhat counter intuitive. The Wisconsin Personal Protection Act is almost identical to concealed carry laws put into action in 31 other states (bringing the total of states in the US that allow some form of concealed carry to 44). Plain and simple - the experiences of the 44 states that allow legal concealed carry prove that such systems work in reducing violent crime. The facts are often hard to swallow. None of the states have turned into the "Wild West". There have been no random shootings in line at the local Walgreen's. None of the doom-and-gloom arguments ring true. Most relevant is the fact that none of these states have repealed their concealed carry laws, in fact quite the opposite, many states are now beginning to recognize concealed carry permits issued from states other than their own. This is an important issue to me as well as to thousands of your fellow Wisconsinites. I would ask that you lend your support to the concealed carry bill. Sincerely, Heywood Jahblowme
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 12:53:09 PM EDT
Dolomite: How eloquent. 'Specially the sig line. I've been pestering all my friends and family to write similar letters. You know other shooters in your area, don't you? If you have a Democrat senator, they might just be the swing vote. I've been told that there are a number of Democrats in the Senate that routinely vote for gun/hunting rights. They need to be persuaded to break ranks with Chvala on this one. It may be easier to do now that Chvala is up to his ears in caucus scandal. Anyone else?
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 4:58:35 PM EDT
I was almost certain that there were more than 3 WI members on this board....
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 5:54:46 AM EDT
Here's a direct quote of a reply to a pro-CCW letter sent by a co-worker to Wisconsin SS Richard Grobschmidt (7th Senate District): [b]"The authors of the proposal have stated their belief that the bill is intended to reduce crime in our communities. At the same time the potential crime deterrent effect of this proposal is argued, I am aware that several organizations representing statewide law enforcement groups have made clear their opposition to the bill. In addition to statewide groups, I have sought the opinion of all top law enforcement officials in communities included in the 7th Senate District. All of them have expressed their opposition to the concealed-carry proposal. While I can understand the intentions of people that support this proposal, I find it very difficult to overlook the views of professionals who dedicate their lives to this problem." "I also think the views of area police chiefs are not simply a matter of opinion, but are based on the professional view of what they think works for Wisconsin. It is important to note that Wisconsin has experienced a drop in crime rates and continues to have a substantially lower rate of crime than the national average. Also, the most recent crime statistics indicate that Wisconsin's rate of arrest has increased. In other words, law enforcement is improving its ability to apprehend criminals." Yada, yada, yada, "I believe hunters should be able to own guns" and so-forth.[/b] Another co-worker, from the same district, received the exact same letter from Grobschmidt. What he doesn't realize is that he needs to be talking to REAL cops - not their bosses. He doesn't have a clue that a 'Chief of Police' has about as much in common with the guy working alone in a car at 3:00AM as Kenneth Lay had with an Electrical Lineman wrangling a live 1200 Volt wire out of a cherry-picker. It's sadly amusing to find such condescending behavior from such a low-level government dweeb isn't it?
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 7:09:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2002 7:11:39 AM EDT by Corey]
In other words, law enforcement is improving its ability to apprehend criminals.
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Well, that's just great. My family might get whacked in a mall parking lot some night, but the cops will catch the bastards who did it. I feel sooo much better. And, quite frankly, I don't give a flying f@ck what law enforcement thinks about this. Why do they carry guns off duty? To protect themselves and their family? What makes their life worth anymore than mine? Are they willing to give up their off duty CCW and let the cops track down their killers? I have spoke with numerous local (line) cops and almost unanimously they agree that citizens should have the right to carry concealed firearms. Now, Chief "I'm going to bake my Glock in the oven with the Thanksgiving turkey" Williams (MAPD) has no credibility when he talks about gun safety. And yes, that really happened. He (while MAPD chief) was trying to hide his duty Glock while guests came over so he stuffed it in the oven. Then he tried to cook a turkey and was surprised when a round cooked off. He gave himself a few day unpaid admin suspension over it. But AFAIK he still carries concealed off duty.... EDITED for spelling.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 7:26:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2002 7:27:31 AM EDT by Mulder]
done!! [):)]
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 7:30:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Corey: Now, Chief "I'm going to bake my Glock in the oven with the Thanksgiving turkey" Williams (MAPD) has no credibility when he talks about gun safety. And yes, that really happened. He (while MAPD chief) was trying to hide his duty Glock while guests came over so he stuffed it in the oven. Then he tried to cook a turkey and was surprised when a round cooked off. He gave himself a few day unpaid admin suspension over it. But AFAIK he still carries concealed off duty....
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I've got to remember that one. Pure gold.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 11:54:15 AM EDT
[b][i]This just in from Dick Baker.[/b][/i]
We're finally going to have public hearings on AB675, the Gunderson bill to allow Wisconsin citizens to obtain a license to carry concealed weapons. At the hearings in 2000 there was a tremendous turnout by gun owners. This time we need an even more tremendous turnout. Please make every effort to be at either or both of these hearings to show your support. And please forward this alert to every gun owner you know. The locations and times for the hearings are: Thursday, February 14, 2002 1:00 pm Veterans of Foreign Wars 409 Delafield St. Waukesha, WI Tuesday, February 12, 2002 12:00 pm (noon) State of Wisconsin-National Guard Armory 1730 North Lane Eau Claire, WI The National Guard Armory is about 2/3rds of a mile west of US highway 53 in Eau Claire. To get to the Waukesha VFW post, take I-94 and exit at highway 164. Go south; Hwy 164 will become E. North Street. Continue on North until you reach Highway 18, which is Delafield St. Turn right on Delafied and the VFW post is about a quarter mile west. Let's show them we mean business! The Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association [url]http://www.wisconsinconcealedcarry.com[/url]
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Unfortunately I'm going to have a hard time getting to either of these hearings as I'll be stuck in court both of those days.[:(] I will try to get someone to cover for me, but this is really short of notice. We'll see. Please pass this information along -- encourage anyone who can make it to fill their car up with PPA supporters! Thanks.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 5:15:33 PM EDT
Anyone heard from Muad_Dib lately?
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 5:36:31 PM EDT
letter stamped and ready will send tomorrow morning. Already got one dismissing chain letter from the senator Brian Burke when writing about guns. Fucking bastard. I'll send him another one though. Can't hurt.
Link Posted: 2/8/2002 6:50:40 AM EDT
BTT
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 10:13:36 AM EDT
My wife and I have received the following letters back. Considering that we wrote to our representative and senator, as well as the Assembly Criminal Justice Committee and Senate Judiciary Committee, this indicates to me that most only respond to letters from their direct constituents. Fred Risser, Democratic Senator from Madison (our Senator), and President of the Senate. We've received two letters from him in response to our separate letters on the AB and SB version of the PPA. Both have thanked us for contacting him, gave us a brief description of where the bill was in the process, and said that "After the committee completes its work, we may then consider it for passage on the Senate floor. Your comments will be kept in mind." Fred Risser is a staunch anti, and will do everything he can to block the PPA (although his buddy Chuck Chvala is the one not letting it get out of committee). Risser is on the Senate Judiciary Committee and is apparently content to let the PPA die there. He is hopeless. I write him only because he's my Senator, and I'm going to make one of his staffers open up my mail and respond to me. Mark Pocan, Democratic Representative from Madison (our rep), wrote "Current law allows for law-abiding citizens to purchase guns but I do not believe that carrying a concealed weapon is good public policy or that it will create a safer environment. Research has shown that: ...." Then he cites four sets of bogus "statistics." Mark Pocan is hopeless. He said he appreciated us sharing our thoughts with him, but "on this issue we disagree." At least he's up front and not dismissive like Risser, but he's relying on bad statistics. Scott Suder, Republican Representative from Abbotsford and Chairman of the Assembly CJ Committee just wrote that "You will be happy to know that I am in full support of this legislative...." He tells us about the public hearings and includes separate notices. He writes that he is "honored" to have the PPA come to his committee and "You can be assured that I will do whatever I can to ensure this proposal is forwarded and signed into law." He tells me that I can contact him about this or any other legislative matter and my input is important to him. Wow. I just received that today (got Risser's and Pocan's while ago), and it made my day. What a first class guy. Of course, it helps that he agrees with me. [:)] Let us know where your senators and representatives stand! I'm going to try and attend the Waukesha public hearing (it's held by the CJ committee) even if I have to owe people favors and recalendar stuff. With guys like Senator Zien and Representative Suder in our corner, we owe it to them to do everything we can to support them in their PPA effort. After all, they're doing it for us!!
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 5:14:16 PM EDT
I was at the hearing in Waukesha today at the CJ committee's public hearing. Dolomite was there (I tried to catch your attention dude, but you were too busy schmoozin' [:D] ). Check your IM's. I'll give an update on the hearing after my wife uses the computer to draft a contempt motion. (Geez, what did I do this time?)
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 5:35:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2002 5:41:11 PM EDT by Corey]
This just in from Dick Baker: Eau Claire poll on CCW (from Tuesday's CJ hearing) at [url]http://www.weau.com/poll.asp[/url] Let's hit it! I'll try to post it as a separate thread. EDIT: "Sorry, the poll is open from 12:30pm to 7:30pm. Please try again tomorrow." Let's get on this tomorrow at about 12:20 p.m. I'll be out snowboarding with my wife (our Valentines Day celebration is taking a Friday off for fun when we have child care) so I'll need someone else to post a topic and keep it at the top of GD. I can take over about 3-4 p.m. Dolomite, you going to be around and have access to a computer from 12:30-3:00 p.m.?
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 5:53:35 PM EDT
If nobody else does it I can post it.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 6:19:33 PM EDT
Thanks ARndog! If you get it up first that'd be cool! Corey, sorry I missed you but I had to beat it. I'm posting my report from todays hearing as a new topic.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 6:50:41 PM EDT
Of the group there, I only saw about 3-4 anti’s speak and I left at around 4 p.m. (been there since 1 p.m. and had to get back to evening routine at home). The following notes are from a few that I jotted down during the hearing. It started with Rep. Gunderson and Senator Zien giving their pitches (the Assembly and Senate sponsors of the bill). Rep. Gunderson actually got choked up when he described getting hit over the head with a crowbar one morning in the summer of 2000 when he went to open his gun shop. He said he’s never done that before (choked up), and it seemed like the emotions finally caught up with him. Yeah, I was moved by that ‘cause he is a crime victim and he’s speaking the truth of what happens – when you’re an unarmed crime victim you’re at the mercy of your attacker. Then some local pro-PPA’s came on. I included one guy who IIRC was a retired big wig (Cpt., Lt, whatever) with the Milwaukee PD. Dolo, correct me cause I might be wrong on this. At any rate, it was quite obvious that he was politically connected. He said that one night a few years ago, he and his wife were at a first class Milwaukee restaurant when his wife’s .38 snubbie fell out of her purse (his story was much more animated and funny, but my fingers are getting sore) in the middle of the restaurant floor. She put it back and they had a great dinner. He goes to the bathroom and sees a local media mogul, who says his wife has him outgunned and shows him a .25 auto. Then, when they’re leaving, he shakes hands with a Milwaukee judge who says he’s “back up” his wife if she needs it, and while shaking hands the judge knocks his hand on the snubbie in the judge’s waistband. His point was that lots of “law abiding” people CCW’s all the time. He seemed like he was well connected and, as I know well connected people share their “secrets” all the time, I don’t doubt his story. He went on to say many other politicians, media people, judges, etc., CCW illegally in Milwaukee. An NRA lobbiest spoke in the top five. He was a younger man, well dressed, who presented the statistic very well. I didn’t expect to see the NRA in Waukesha. He is one of the ones I saw when I left. I shook his hand and said that I was embarrassed that I let my membership lapse, but will write out a check tomorrow. I asked him if his job was fun and he said “It’s stressfull.” I imagine it is. He also spoke in the hearing about national pistol competitions (I’m presuming IPDA, IPSCA, etc.). He said that in his office in VA he has a gun safe in his office and use of the basement range. Decent trigger time, I’m guessing.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 6:51:43 PM EDT
One of the anti’s said that he thought this was all a big setup by the gun industry to sell more guns. This guy was a paid lobbiest for WAVE (WI Anti Violence Effort). A paraphrase is that the NRA and gun industry has been going state to state to pass CHL laws to increase guns sales in the low gun market of the early to mid ‘90’s. He also said gun violence was due to the access to and number of weapons out there. When asked about facts (or lack thereof in his statement), he said it was in the packet presented to the committee and fully footnoted. When asked why the PPA was a bad idea, he said it’s only his “common sense” feeling, and it doesn’t feel good, not a good idea and a wrong message for the kids. He did concede that the pro-PPA forces were well organized and an efficient entity, as evidenced by the turnout at the hearing (overwhelmingly pro-PPA). Representative Boyle is a “gunowner” who believe in keeping guns for home defense but will fight the PPA with every fiber of his being. In his discussions with the above WAVE lobbiest, Boyle (trying to sound like a pro-“home defense” guy I suspect), said that his favorite gun was a 1900’s double barrel shotgun that could “take out a 12 foot wall with two shots at short distance.” Then he said something like that’s the most destructive self defense weapon ever made, or something like that (the guy next to me was almost out of his seat at these inaccurate comments). Then there were a bunch of your typical citizen who supported it, interspersed by a few more WAVE’s. I probably could of stayed there til 6:00 p.m., but had to go. Any other comments Dolomite? BTW, the NRA is doing a TON for WI gun rights. They’ve filed an amicus brief in State v. Gonzales (challenging constitutionality of 941.23 – companion case to State v. Cole on the same issue) and are sending lobbiests here to get the facts out. They are doing a good job. I know that the NRA is actively helping us and urge you to support them. I'll also paste this on Dolomite's new thread.
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