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Posted: 1/31/2002 9:55:49 AM EDT
I just got back from my first air flight after 9-11. 2 hrs early I check in my bags but the problem starts when I put my carryon bag on the x-ray machine. I walk thru the metal detector with no alarms. I turn to get my bag and I am surrounded by security. Immediately I get the oh sh#t feeling. You see this particular bag had been taken to the range a week ago and even thou I had emptied the bag and checked every corner they had a problem. The lady running the x-ray machine had used a detector to “sniffed” it for explosives and it came back positive. I guess it was from fired powder residue or unburned powder from some of my reloads but they were pissed and I spent about an hour and a half explaining why the bag tested positive even thou there were no explosives in it. My advice is keep your range bags separate from anything that may go to the airport or wash everything before the trip.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 9:57:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2002 9:58:40 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
So what's illegal about powder traces? How about telling them it's none of their GD business? Traces of explosives isn't illegal. I'm SO sick of this worthless, feel-good so-called security
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 10:01:29 AM EDT
I will be at the airport in about 24 hrs. When I went to Dallas earlier this month, I had no problems. Stokes on the other hand narrowly missed the body cavity search. While the boys graciously let me do some shooting while down there, I had found a 9mm round that did not have a primer in it. Foolishly I put it in my pocket to let the powder trickle into my coat. Before I left I shook it out and packed it into my checked luggage figuring it would trigger the detector.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 10:06:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights: So what's illegal about powder traces? How about telling them it's none of their GD business? Traces of explosives isn't illegal. I'm SO sick of this worthless, feel-good so-called security
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Apparently the 'sheeple' equate hour waits and inconvenience to good security. No, I cannot explain !
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 10:17:28 AM EDT
Bullseye, the aftershave of the monkeywrenching crew. It does a body good.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 11:01:03 AM EDT
Fight4yourrights The detector will pick-up explosive in the one part per billion or in some cases one part per trillion range. In theory you could detect explosives wrapped in plastic. So yes if you have explosive/ gunpowder residue on your stuff they may stop you and ask questions. Several of our contract employees handle explosives and they have been stopped. The delay is generally just a few minutes for the bag to be searched to verify no explosives are in it. I would not suggest you tell them none of their business if asked to explain. Such an action would probably just add to your delay. I believe that upon entering the airport you consent to being searched.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 11:07:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JIMBEAM: Fight4yourrights The detector will pick-up explosive in the one part per billion or in some cases one part per trillion range. In theory you could detect explosives wrapped in plastic. So yes if you have explosive/ gunpowder residue on your stuff they may stop you and ask questions. Several of our contract employees handle explosives and they have been stopped. The delay is generally just a few minutes for the bag to be searched to verify no explosives are in it. I would not suggest you tell them none of their business if asked to explain. Such an action would probably just add to your delay. I believe that upon entering the airport you consent to being searched.
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While your advice is sound, it is part of the problem. If we all "go along to get along", things will only get worse. If they detect explosives on my bags, I will probably just say "So what?". If they ask if I have explosives on me, I would naturally say no. If they ask me to explain why they are detecting explosives, I will just state "hey, it's your equipment, don't expect me to know". What all can these detectors pick up as traces of explosives? A little powder on your hands after shooting? Fertilizer from your yard? I'm still trying to figure out when metal became illegal. Oh well, they already make old men drop their pants. Pretty soon it will be full prison cavity searches, and we all know that prevents things from being smuggled into prison. NOT.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 11:58:11 AM EDT
[url]dailynews.yahoo.com/h/krsanjose/20020131/lo/evacuation_at_s_f_airport_1.html[/url] Some dumb schmuck caused SFO to be evacuated yesterday. When they detected ferilizer on the man shoes, the stupid security guard told the guy to wait and went off to find his supervisor. When he came back, the guy was gone so they evacuated the whole airport. Does anybody really think the security guard will be fired?
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 12:27:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2002 12:27:45 PM EDT by trickshot]
I think I'm going to start spreading fertilizer in the parking decks and on stairways near the airport. That way, *everyone* will be setting those stupid detectors off. Anyone who thinks they're safer now due to fascism is a god damn idiot. BTW--You mention they were pissed off? Why? Just to intimidate you or what?
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 12:47:18 PM EDT
Trichsot, why the hell would you spread fertilizer in an effort to make it harder to detect explosives. Most of the stuff they are doing at the airport is just show. However, x-raying baggage and sniffing for explosive are two measures that will make it harder for someone to bring a weapon or a bomb on an aircraft. Since I may be on that aircraft I would prefer that some asshole doesn't have the means to kill me. No one makes you go to the airport or fly on an aircraft but if you do, you constent to a search. It's simple, if you don't want to be searched don't fly. How do you see this as facsims? Since you are not happy with the measures currently in place, what do you suggest?
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 1:44:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2002 1:45:09 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]
Originally Posted By JIMBEAM: No one makes you go to the airport or fly on an aircraft but if you do, you consent to a search. It's simple, if you don't want to be searched don't fly. How do you see this as facsims?
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JIMBEAM - I'm getting a little sick of this attitude. I have argument with my good friend Forest all the time. I DON'T have much of a choice but to fly. My job requires me to travel long distances in very short time. Often flying is the only choice. Since the airports are a government controlled Oligopoly, I don't have a choice, and I should have to submit to any silly-arse rule they come up with. What if they want to cavity search your pretty wife every time you go to the airport? Is that okay, since you agreed to any search by coming to the airport? Could I change jobs? Sure. Could I avoid flying? Pretty hard to get to Hawaii driving, isn't it? The airports/airlines ARE NOT private enterprises. As a government Oligopoly, they have us over the barrel. Consequently, we aren't truly free to "make another choice".
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 1:45:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JIMBEAM: No one makes you go to the airport or fly on an aircraft but if you do, you constent to a search. It's simple, if you don't want to be searched don't fly. How do you see this as facsims?
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No one makes you go to the store or drive on a highway but if you do, you constent to a search. It's simple, if you don't want to be searched don't drive. How do you see this as facsims? I don't know.. It's pretty clear to me. Smalls LCpl of Marines
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 2:11:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 2:36:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights: The airports/airlines ARE NOT private enterprises. As a government Oligopoly, they have us over the barrel. Consequently, we aren't truly free to "make another choice".
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Get a private pilots license and buy your own plane. [:D]
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 2:46:57 PM EDT
fight4yourrights is so correct on this one!! How dare they check for explosives!! How dare they actually question someone when traces of explosives are detected!!! And, OH MY GOD, how dare they not accept the first weak excuse they get!!!! Damn Facists!!
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 2:51:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2002 2:54:40 PM EDT by Georgia-Precision]
I have to Fly out of Atlanta at 7:00 am in the morning to go to the SHOT Show. After watching the news last night, I went and bought me some new shoes that I plan on taking out of the box and putting on just before getting out of the car in the morning. There is no telling what all kind of residue is on my shoes now. I work in the shop, reload and hunt in these shoes. One of them Bomb sniffing dogs would have a field day with my old shoes. Good luck to everyone traveling over the next few days. We plan on being there 2 1/2 hrs early. Tommy GPSS [url]www.georgiaprecision.com[/url]
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 3:00:42 PM EDT
Small, driving down the road is different than begin on an aircraft. Can you kill three thousand people by high-jacking a car and driving it into a building? Are you in a position to kill 200-300 people by carrying a small amount of explosives in a car. Fight4yourrights, I am sorry my attitude makes you sick. You feel free to state your options why can't I? I agree it is a pain in the ass having some asshole go through your bags in front of other people. I have flown almost a dozen time since Sept 11 and I have been searched twice. I my previous post, I asked if you had a better solution for securing airports. Do you? I don't think you idea of spreading fertilizer at the airport will do much for increasing security for those that travel. I am not trying to make this personal I just disagree with you.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 3:04:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Prairie-Ranger: Get a private pilots license and buy your own plane. [:D]
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I'm still subjected to silly-arse Federal rules and regulations. (probably worse)
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 3:10:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JIMBEAM: Small, driving down the road is different than begin on an aircraft. Can you kill three thousand people by high-jacking a car and driving it into a building? Are you in a position to kill 200-300 people by carrying a small amount of explosives in a car. Fight4yourrights, I am sorry my attitude makes you sick. You feel free to state your options why can't I? I agree it is a pain in the ass having some asshole go through your bags in front of other people. I have flown almost a dozen time since Sept 11 and I have been searched twice. I my previous post, I asked if you had a better solution for securing airports. Do you? I don't think you idea of spreading fertilizer at the airport will do much for increasing security for those that travel. I am not trying to make this personal I just disagree with you.
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JIMBEAM - I meant nothing personal. Like I said, my good friend Forest says the same thing. So if this is about how many you can kill, do we crank up the regulations for cruise ships? How about a busload of 50 passengers (and whatever they can crash into). Do you guys REALLY think this so-called security is actually going to stop anything? I don't have anything to do with airports except trying to give them money to take me place, but how about this scenario: I assume airport farm out their tire work. Someone at an offsite tire repair/replacement location could pack 15lbs of C-4 and an altitude detonator. Once this wheel is mounted to a plane and it reaches altitude, boom! What good did our security do to stop this? This may not be a plausible means of blowing up an airplane, but maybe it is. There are a millions ways to bypass so-called security, so hassling 80yo men and making them drop their pants doesn't make me feel any safer.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 3:19:57 PM EDT
I think metal detectors are a good idea. So are explosives detectors and dogs. I however think it is bs that I can't carry my swiss army knife on a commcercial airplane anymore. Nail clippers, Medals of Honor, and inert ammunition are real deadly weapons in the hands of citizens. I'm not saying there shouldn't be any security. You can not stop terrorists from hitting a specific target. There are always cracks in the system. Plastic explosives in the shoes was a crack in the system. There are a lot of cracks in the airlines security. I would like to see CCW holders able to carry on planes. Geez or maybe the airlines could give everyone a pocket knife before they get on the plane. Security should be reasonable.. But I don't think the BOR should stop at the door. Smalls LCpl of Marines
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 3:22:22 PM EDT
In two years on SF Demo Committee, we shot over 120,000 lbs. of demo. I have no idea how many more lbs. I have shot in other training. Everything I own probably has some trace of residue on it. I would show them all of the ID they want (except the driver's license with my veil on), and they can search my bags if they wish, but if they make me miss my flight after arriving two hours early, someone is going to hear about it. A recent policy change permits military personnel on leave or orders to check baggage without the search. Carry ons and walkthru metal detection inspection is still required. We can argue value of these checks and violation of personal rights, but two points to consider. First, the delay and inconvenience of these searches are causing many people to seek alternative transportation for short flights. Second, if (and this is a big IF) the security measures cause the potential terrorists to not conduct operations, then this hassle will have been worth it. Till they move down the target list to the next, softer target.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 3:28:25 PM EDT
My wife wants to go fly somewhere this summer for vacation, but I'm trying to talk her out of it. I refused to be practically strip searched.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 3:38:20 PM EDT
Warlord I haven't seen a strip search yet. The only thing I took off were my shoes. About half the people doing these search seem incompetent but they have all been very professional
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 3:38:54 PM EDT
Wait I think I have a solution. The Airlines can be safe! Allow no baggage whatsoever onto the plane. When you arrive to the airport everyone on your flight is brought to a room. You are strip searched. Then given an orange jumpsuit for coach passengers, and a green jumpsuit for first class passengers. Your original clothing would be stored until you returned. Then they will shackle your hands and feet and blindfold you. Once you are on the plane you will be handcuffed to your seat. The two armed guards would be there to assist you if you needed to use the bathroom. Hmm not practical I suppose... But the main goal is safe passage right? Smalls LCpl of Marines
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 3:41:48 PM EDT
Let me try another angle on this: [b]The Slippery Slope of Security[/b] Since 9/11, most folks on this board think the "security" measures that are being taken are fine, though they find a few silly, such as nail clippers. If you are okay with most everything that is being done at the airports, how about at the summer Olympics? After all, you don't [i]have[/i] to go the Olympics. How about the Super Bowl? How about a Ravens game? Or a University of Michigan game? Would you like to go through a metal detector, a sniffer dog/machine, a pat down and run your bag through x-ray to attend your son's highschool ballgame? Where does it end? Once someone breaches the current level of security (and they always will), how much more will you accept? They are already making old men drop their pants in the airport, what's next, cavity searches? Once you've accepted these intrusions into your privacy at the airport, why not church? Or work? Or school? After all, you can always "choose to go somewhere else". Where does it end? If they find a terrorist cell operating out of a house in your neighborhood, will you be okay for them to search your house, "just in case"? These intrusions into our privacy won't stop a terrorist, but they do condition us to accept authority. The last time this happened, those folks obeyed authority and willfully walked into the cattle cars, just as they had been conditioned to do.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 4:16:20 PM EDT
Smalls that's funny. Fight, yeah it is a slippery slope but we need to do something to stop terrorist. We can't just let them have access to high risk areas. As someone said previously, these terrorist are going to move to softer target perhaps even some of those that you listed, cruise ships and buses. I am sure we will see even more stuff we don't like. The only solution I can think of is prosecute the war on these assholes that started this as quickly as possible and return to the relative freedom we enjoyed before Sept 11.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 4:28:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 4:52:00 PM EDT
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."-- Benjamin Franklin If you can't understand this, then we have already lost! 556mm
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 5:03:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 5:28:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 5:35:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Forest: I am sure we will see even more stuff we don't like. The only solution I can think of is prosecute the war on these assholes that started this as quickly as possible and return to the relative freedom we enjoyed before Sept 11.
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Only problem is, once we give up our right to something, we will *never* get it back. I would rather a plane load of people go down a day then to give up any of my rights, want to know something else, I wouldn't get on a plane at that point, would you?
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 6:14:46 PM EDT
"You can't bring FIRE on the plane!"
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 6:16:09 PM EDT
Hielo I actually said that quote first.
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