Ariel Sharon says he's sorry he didn't kill Arafat 20 years ago when he had the chance.

Excellent!!

Unfortunatly, he says he think Arafathead can still be a force for peaceful coexistance with Israel if he arrests the terrorists.  Right!

Well, that makes two of us who are sorry he didn't kill Arafat twenty years ago!

Correction, I forgot about the other six million Israelis who are sorry that he didn't kill Arafat twenty years ago either.

Eric The(Sorry)Hun[>]:)]

How Israel govt. is keeping to shoot in its own genitals in one simple lesson...

Sharon has a very big mouth...

Perhaps Sharon should have killed all Palestinians twenty years a go [?]

Perhaps Sharon should kill all Palestinians today [?]

I know what Sharon should do.  KILL all Arabs and Muslims the world over.

Eric, the only ground-rules should be that:

(1) He cannot use one single military item given to him by the United States.  

(2)  The United States provides 'NO' assistance as Sharon kills.  The Palestinians also receive 'NO' U.S. assistance.

(3) Eric, you drive one of the bulldozers to assist in preparing the mass graves for the Palestinians.

Under no conditions imaginable should the United States, Israel and the Palestinians change polices that have failed to bring peace these many years.

Under no conditions should the U.S. use its' military to move in and force a peace including a home-land for the Palestinians.

HELL NO !  KILL THEM ALL!

Let President Bush prove he is as much a fool as Sharon.

[X]

I've always thought that he should be off limits, but perhaps getting rid of him now wouldn't make things that much worse. I mean, how much worse can they get. We do need to remember that this guy ordered the murder of an american ambassador, not to mention having a deal with Barak that gave him 99% of what he wanted and he walked away. Why would we consider going back to brokering anything on this lunatic's behalf.

The Palistinians have no desire to improve their lot in life...they only want to kill Isrealis.

They don't want to build schools and provide a worthy education to their children...they only want to kill Isrealis.

They don't want to build cities to provide housing and infrastructure to their people...they only want to kill Isrealis.

They don't want to build industries or services to provide employment...they only want to kill Isrealis.

They don't want to integrate into and become productive members of the host countries' society (Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan and Isreal)... they only want to kill Isrealis.

Is there a pattern here?

Simply consider the proposal to E.T. Hun above and only graves will be necessary.

Hell graves are not a necessity - let the bodies rot in the desert.  ALL the bodies.

[X]

[b]5subslr5[/b], you seem to be pretty 'with it' when it comes to current events!

Do you remember when Ehud Barak offered Arafat about '99%' of what the Palestinians say they wanted and had been asking for all along?

Do you remember what happened?

Arafat walked away!

Yes, that's right, he got up and left!

Wonder why?

Could it possibly be because Arafat and the Palestinians don't really desire peace? Could it be that accepting any offer from the Israelis, even an offer that gives them 99% of what they have said they have wanted, still leaves a vibrant, industrious, open society on the 'other' West Bank (you know 'Israel' proper) inhabited by Jews!

And THAT, my dear friend, is exactly what they do not want!

If you listen to Arafat's speeches to his people in the original Arabic, you will learn that he preaches a Palestine 'from the river to the sea'!

Do you need a map to see what he's getting at?[:D]

Well, Arafat's calculations failed, the Israelis rejected Ehud Barak's appeasement of the Palestinians and chose, instead, former General Ariel Sharon. They knew precisely what they were getting!

Arafat had counted on the obvious Israeli passion for peace, and their hesitancy to strike back, to long endure the terror that has been unleashed upon them.

He counted wrong, didn't he?

[b]Just as much as Arafat's ally in terror Osama Bin Laden counted wrong when he thought that the United States would react in the same way after a terror attack on its own shores![/b]

A few cruise missiles, possibly a couple of bombs, and then the Great Satan crawls away licking its wounds!

You know it would have been a pretty wise thing for both Arafat and Bin Laden to have read a few history books along with their daily readings of the Koran! [b]You know, the kind of history books that show that when the United States and Israel are governed by men of principle, undeterred by a lickspittle need to be loved by the world's press, they simply do not roll over and play dead![/b]

Ask the Kaiser, ask Hitler, ask Tojo, ask any number of dead tyrants who should have gotten a clue and gotten out of the way when US Presidents and Israeli Prime Ministers begin to roll up their sleeves!

But have it your way, [b]5subslr5[/b], and let the lion lie down with the lamb, kumbaya, etc.

Just make certain that you ask George W. to do the same with those who attack [b]US![/b]

I mean, after all, you value 'fairness', right?Surely, we can work out a fair solution to all of Mr. Bin Laden's gripes with the United States!

BTW, did you notice that in one of the tapes that kind Mr. Bin Laden made, he calls for the murder of 'Americans', not US troops in Saudi Arabia, not US embassy workers around the globe, not government workers in the US, but simply '[b]Americans[/b].'

Makes it kind of personal, doesn't it now![:D]

Eric The(YouKnow,LikeSept11thWas'Personal')Hun[>]:)]

Paolo,

I propose a duel of the mouths - Arafat and Sharon.

Let's get the rights and do the duel on "Pay TV" - BIG money.  We take 20% off the top and divide the balance 50 - 50 between the Israeli's and the Palestinians.

This is a fight that will "SELL."  (Now we have to spend just a bit of our take on a sniper to shoot the survivor of the duel.)

Both seem either unwilling or unable to
to avoid continued firing into the area housing their genitals.

Patterns clearly do not matter as their are no solutions.

KILL THEM ALL. (UNDER THE GUIDELINES ABOVE.)

[X]

Post from 5subslr5 -

See, we can agree on some things![:D]

Eric The(There'sGottaBeA'Peace'BeforeYouCan'Keep'It!)Hun[>]:)]

[i][b]The Peaceable Kingdom[/b][/i] by Edward Hicks, c. 1818

[img]http://www.albrightknox.org/ArtStart/art/Hicks.JPG[/img]

From the lamb: Thank you, [b]5subslr5[/b], for your wise counsel and assistance in bringing about this paradise on earth!

From the lion: Oh Lord, we thank you for the food which we are about to eat!

Eric The(GetThePicture?)Hun[>]:)]

I am sorry only that 53 years ago Israel didn't take all the Palestine. At that time the concept of colonization, and population tranfer was still actual. Today, with all the PC, it's impossible to actuate, unless you don't want to wave red flags with a swastika painted on it...

The other way is to use common sense. Both Arafat and Sharon seems unable to use it. And threre is also the scum inside IDF ranks that is rising its head, thanks to the pressure that Hamas and Jihad put on the public opinion:
there is a Brig. Gen. of the IDF that is supported old ideas of Rabbi Meir Kahane for "deporting, relocating, occupin, annexing, restructuring" the West Bank.

We need moderation and common sense. Because if someone wants war, probably, he will get it...

In my reply to Paolo I was thinking inside-the-box and was thinking small - FAR TOO SMALL.

Forget the the Pay-Per-View duel between Arafat and Sharon.

Paolo, let's get the "Pay-Per-View" rights to the LAST WAR fought between Israel and Palestine.
(Fought under the guidelines above.)

We must have a name that sells - "Death-Duel-In-the-Desert" - this fight will sell world wide.

Since there will be no survivors we need only pay for some "bulldozer" work"- or maybe just let all the bodies rot in the sand.

We probably should squeeze-out a couple of bucks for a memorial simply for good PR.

Oh, we'll invite us a HUN to the slaughter and afterward we can sing, as a trio, the Hun's favorite song - "Kumbaya."
(Have to get the lighting just right but what a back-drop.....)

As posted above and in many, many, many previous posts there are no solutions, no sense in changing policies that do not work.

That seems to lead to only one solution - KILL THEM ALL.

[X]  kumbaya

Hmmm, 5subslr5, there's apparently not only no solutions, but no answers to my questions, either!

I'm sure that was an oversight!

Paolo, dear friend, if you don't think 2,000 years was not [u]too[/u] long to correct a wrong, then why bother with a mere 53 years!

It will either be handled by Intifadah until someone blinks, or it quite possibly may wind up a duel in the desert as 5subslr5 thinks!

Eric The(SheerPoetry!)Hun[>]:)]

Paolo,
even here, far from the killing grounds, we can find no common sense.

(If you or anyone is terribly bored look at my posts and Eric's responses.  Eric simply adds things he wishes I had said and then responds as if I had said them.)  (kumbaya)

In business - common ordinary business - when policies do not work these policies are changed or the business doesn't survive.

Clearly the polices concerning Israel and the Palestenians have not worked.  I'm clearly just a country dumb-ass as I would try something different when what is being tried today so clearly has not worked.

My actual personal position is Israel and Palestinian neutral.  Neither is vital to the security interests of my country - America.
However, I do wish for Peace between Israel and the Palestenians and that Peace should be achievable with both sides leaving the table unhappy with the results.

No oversight as you did not reply to my points but simply posted a diversionary diatribe containing those things you wished to say and those you wished that I had said.

I've told you before.  Typing words and statements and then attributing them to me does not work.  (....."as 5subslr thinks.")

Eric - REAL World - I've sat in meetings (with my company's financial future at stake) facing up to nine attorneys plus assistants armed with myself and only (in one case) my CFO.  I've allowed five minute diatribes to complete simply to re-ask my original one sentence question.  I do know how to stay on point.  I do know how to ignore words and thoughts attributed to me that are not mine.

By the way, nice picture.

Maybe Sharon should just be honest and call the operation the "Final Solution".

Post from 5subslr5 -

Strange, isn't it, that both nations always claim that the other is 'vital' to their own security interests?

I mean when we needed Israel as a source of intel concerning Soviet military equipment in the Middle East, they were vital to us.

When we needed information on the Soviet MIG21 that was flown to Israel by a defector from Iraq, we obtained not just the info, but the plane as well!

Did we consider it vital when we benefitted from the use of Israeli-made [b]Have Nap[/b] air-launched missiles on our B-52 bombers, during the Gulf War?

Did our Navy, meanwhile, consider the Israeli Pioneer pilotless drones for reconnaissance in the Gulf vital?

Did we consider it vital when Israel provided mine plows that were used to clear paths for allied forces through Iraqi mine fields?

Did we consider it vital to have the mobile bridges provided by Israel employed by the U.S. Marine Corps during the Gulf War?

Did we consider it vital that Israel Aircraft Industries developed conformal fuel tanks that enhanced the range of F-15 aircraft that were used in the Gulf War?

Did we consider it vital to have the Israeli recommendations, based upon its own system performance observations, which lead to several software changes, that made the Patriot a more capable missile defense system?

Did General Dynamics consider it vital that it has implemented a variety of a host of Israeli modifications to improve the F-16 aircraft fleet including structural enhancements, software changes, increased capability landing gear, radio improvements and avionic modifications?

Did we consider it vital to obtain Israeli-produced helicopter night-targeting system for use in increaseing the Cobra helicopter's night-fighting capabilities?

Did we consider it vital for Israel to produce the canister for the Tomahawk missile?

Did we consider it vital to obtain night-vision goggles for use by U.S. forces both during the Gulf War and afterwards?

Did we consider it vital when we adopted a low altitude warning system produced and developed in Israel to utilize on Blackhawk helicopters?

Did we consider it vital when Israel supplied equipment to U.S. forces included flack vests, gas masks and sand bags, during the Gulf War?

Did we consider it vital to ourinterests when Israel offered the United States the use of military and hospital facilities during the Gulf War?

Or when U.S. ships utilized the Haifa port shipyard maintenance and support on their way to the Gulf?

Did we consider it vital to US interests when we Israel's military intelligence, which had focused on Iraq much more carefully over the years than has the U.S. intelligence, for use during the Gulf War, and even up to the present day?

The Israelis were able to provide Washington with detailed tactical intelligence on Iraqi military activities.

Even then-Defense Secretary Cheney said, for example, that the U.S. had utilized Israeli information about western Iraq in its search for Scud missile launchers during the Gulf War.

So that's a lot of examples that I can think of where the Israelis [b]have[/b] helped our vital interests!

Can you think of [b]one single, ding-dong time that the Palestinians have assisted our vital interests in any manner at all?[/b]

Eric The([i][b]Touche'[/b][/i])Hun[>]:)]

Hannah,
to you I swear I almost used those words but some how I couldn't.

However, I have no problems reading your words.

Post from Hannah_Reitsch -

Maybe we should all be just as honest and say just precisely what [b]is[/b] on our minds!

If the Israelis and Gen. Sharon had wanted for the Palestinians just what the [b]German people[/b] wanted for the Jews, the Palestinians would have been smoke long, long ago!

Agreed?

May my German genes forgive me, but that is the whole truth!

Eric The(SaddenedToBeA)Hun[>]:)]

doesnt anyone think its funny that sharon makes such a statement [b]WHEN ARAFATS BODY HAS NOT YET BEEN VENTILATED??[/b] this seems to me like a warning for arafat to lay low... my opinion is that one should spare the inflammitory boasts for after the war is over... it may be sharons own ass on the grill because of big mouth statements like this. i mean if GWB came out and said, im sorry for the failure of my father to turn saddam hussein into a "big gooey stain"... wouldnt that be kind of pointless?? who doesnt know that the guy is a f**khead? is arafat not a f**khead too? save the posturing for when you have his BBQ'd ass on a stick.  like i learned when i was a kid. dont poke the hornets nest until after the gasoline flames have started to die down.

Neither the Palestinians nor Israel are vital to the survival of the United States of America.

Now we do need the geography (and oil) presently occupied by Saudi Arabia and we do need a stable ally in Turkey.

With those two areas firmly in our camp we can successfully prosecute all wars that must be fought in that area of the world and protect the interests vital to the United States.

Eric, diversions, diversions.

If a "peace" were to be forced then, by default, there would be a "peace" to keep.

Eric, what is it that 'you' desire for the Palestinians ?

All the pieces are in place for the rerun of the Final Solution. The concentration camps, the ghettos, the second class citizenry, the demonization of the foe.
It only remains for the Israelis to "drop the hammer", so to speak.
Now that the Americans have been swayed by propaganda into considering Palestinians "subhuman", the last obstacle has been removed.
Watch for it; "Endlosung", coming soon.

My counsel is not wise enough nor have I brought paradise on earth.

This time I do bring a sword.

[X]

I do think the statement odd when coming from the leader of a country.
Even ex. clinton was not this foolish.  (In this one instance.)

Please be very careful Hannah as one of the next moves will be to declare you antisemetic.  To even harbor such thoughts-of-the-obvious you will be labeled Pro Palestinian.  

The policies of both the past and the present have not worked and do not work. A simple soul sitting here in Oklahoma watching the ice-laden tree limbs fall on his house would change policies.

I too, remain just an observer of the endlessly repeating patterns of history, 5subslr5. Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it. "Deja vu all over again."
Once the foe is declared "untermensch", the next step is always the same. Sadly.

What will be worth the wait is to see if you receive any other reply and if so does that reply even remotley addresses the points contained in your post.

Perhaps it is time to bring in a baseball player !!

(He could hardly do worse.)
[:D]

I think I am paraphrasing Mark Bowden when I say this:
[b]Niether[/b] side seeks peace...they seek victory.

Post from 5subslr5 -

No, 5subslr5, not the [b]same[/b] 'Saudi Arabia' as this:

So are we supposed to 'ethnically cleanse' the Arabian peninsula of Arabs in order to have a Saudi Arabi who can be our trusted ally in the region, to hold down the Southern flank, you know, the way Israel is doing right now?

Doncha' just hate that 'search' function?[:D]

Eric The(Sleuth)Hun[>]:)]

"Ethnic cleansing" is poor politics, no matter *who* is doing it. It always comes back to bite you in the end.

Post from Hannah_Reitsch -

Yes, indeed, all we need now is to have a people who would [b]actually[/b] do such a thing! I certainly know it wouldn't be the Jews!

Hmmm, who could the Israelis contract with to drop the gas pellets? What group of people have shown themselves capable of doing such heinous atrocities during recent history?

I know that there's not enough Germans living in Israel to assist in doing such a thing, but that's certainly one group with a 'proven track record' for accomplishing the hideous.

Maybe the Israelis should import even more Europeans, not just Germans, because those folks have never had a problem dropping the hammer on the Jews.

I mean, let's face it, when it came time for the Jews to get on the trains, every single advanced, civilized European country that was called upon to round up the Jews and deliver them to the train station, literally fell all over themselves doing it!

Ahhh, but that was then, this is the here and now!

And so many things were done, [b]by both sides[/b], during that awful little war!

And the Jews certainly didn't help temselves out in this area, at all, failing to assimilate and all! To a large degree, they must bear some portion of the guilt!

Eric The(GiveMeABreak!)Hun[>]:)]

Only time will tell if the Israelis use Final Solution tactics. No group is immune from using evil to accomplish their goals, not even your precious Israelis, Eric.

Post from Hannah_Reitsch -

Precious? Mine? Hardly!

You are correct in saying that no group is immune from evil in the grand scheme of things, but you are incorrect if you are saying that the present state of Israeli public opinion and their body politic would support such a thing!

Give them a few more years of suicide bombings and who knows what they might do, however!

But then, give the United States a few more years of Sept 11ths and see what we're capable of doing!

Can you say the same about the present state of Palestinian public opinion (let's see, an approval rate for 'suicide bombings' of more than 63% in the West Bank, hmmmm) and that their body politic wouldn't support 'Palestine from the river to the sea'?

Wait, you don't have to answer, the undying ululations from the West Bank over Sept 11 and every single suicide boming before or since tells us everything we need to know on the subject!

Eric The(Uncomfortable)Hun[>]:)]

[sarcasm mode on] And there are certainly no hardliners in Israel, are there?[sarcasm mode/off]

No Eric, I do not hate the "search function."

My sentence reads "We do need the geography presently occupied by Saudi Arabia......"

Again, you choose to attempt to confuse and you remain off-point.

Do 'YOU' seek to ethnically cleanse the Arabian Peninsula ???
I have certainly not suggested that action ?

Eric, you seem to be at your best when differing with "garandman."  Here your attempts to to confuse by adding words seem .....less able.

Perhaps 'you' depend on Israel to hold down the southern flank but I do not.

Doncha just love the search function ?

Here I'm not exactly sure what your point may be ?

However, I've heard young Israeli Sabras(sp?)criticize the Jews in Nazi Germany for not having the guts to each shoot as many Germans as possible when the "knock on the door was heard."

These young folks either don't know or have forgotten that by the time the mass transport of Jews began Hitler had already taken the guns.

Post from 5subslr5 -

You mean this part?

I had hoped that the 'Give Me A Break' clause might give everyone a clue that I was being facetious in the quoted material. Those were simply the sort of excuses that one heard, [i]ad nauseum[/i], from the civilized European sources, for why the Jews were responsible for the Holocaust as much as any Nazi, or collaborating European!

Eric The(Clearer,Perhaps?)Hun[>]:)]

Wow Eric, Can you believe the blindness of these people?  It's like a weiner dog attacking a guy with a stick.  The dog charges the man and the man whacks it with a stick.  The dog retreats, reposes and attacks the man again.  This time the man offers clothing, food and shelter but the dog attacks again and receives a whack with the stick.  Then the dog retreats reposes and attacks still again.  The man offers the dog a piece of his land.  The dog attacks.  Schools? Attack.  Self rule?  Attack.  "What do you want!?"  "I want you dead".  All you can hope for is for the Arabs currently calling themselves Palestinians to be allowed to return to their home countries ie. Egypt, Jordan, Syria.  Planerench out.

Post from 5subslr5 -

Well then, Sir, praytell how do we make certain this valuable real estate is [b]'firmly in our camp'[/b] when it is currently inhabited by folks who are [b]'not our friends'[/b]? Hmmm?

That's a very simple, to-the-point question, which you will no doubt claim to be otherwise!

Well, then enlighten this poor benighted fool with your wisdom, just answer the preceding question! It is not off-point, unless you disregard your previous assertion that all we need is...

Not at all, my friend, the status quo, [b]less[/b] the suicide bombing, would be a marvelous
outcome for the United States!

Well that depends upon how you answer the previous question! It certainly looks like a suggestion that unfriendly Arabs may need to be removed somehow from their valuable real estate according to your views on US vital interests!

And your ability to give a straightforward answer to the many questions that I have asked in this thread, is likewise, not up to your usual standards!

Not me, the United States requires it! But, I go along with Bush-Cheney, et al., on that view, as well!

I surely don't depend on unfriendly Saudis to protect our a**es!

And another thing, my dear friend, where does this come from?

When have I ever, ever, ever called you or anyone you know of anti-semitic? Huh?

Use the 'search' function if you need, but just let me know when the offending language was used! 'Anti-semitism' is simply a word that seldom finds its way into my posts or in my day-to-day conversation!

Even when others accuse Israel, fer'chissakes, of about to unloose a 'Final Solution' against the Palestinians! That is simply outrageous!

[b]I'm not Jewish, I'm not Israeli, but I find that allusion very, very....outrageous and offensive, to say the very least![/b]

Eric The(PlainSpoken)Hun[>]:)]

You're right, Eric. Long long time ago. They have the means and Arab terrorism gave to the Israeli even the motivations. But I expect from an ancient nation that experienced on it's own skin the Genocide to be much wiser than its killers.

The ones that make comparison with what is happening in Gaza and what happened in the Lodz ghetto, don't know the history, or pretendo to ignore it...

Post from Hannah_Reitsch -

Of course there are! Gen. Ariel Sharon is a hardliner and twenty years ago he didn't have sufficient murderous instincts to kill a terrorist scumbag such as Arafat! The inventor of airplane hi-jackings (gosh gee, has 'hi-jackings' been in the headlines recently?) and dear old Sharon couldn't pop the cap on his sorry ass!

Hardliners should be made of sterner stuff than that!

But where are the Israeli 'suicide bombers' Hannah, precious?

Surely there must be some Israeli equivalents of the Arafats of this world?

The times that some Israelis go off the deep end and shoot up a mosque, they are tried and imprisoned, and, if you care to investigate, they are still lanquishing in prison!

When the Palestinian Authority 'captures' a wanted terrorist for murdering civilians, they are almost immediately placed under 'house arrest.'

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHah! That is rich, indeed!

Eric The(Laughing)Hun[>]:)]

sometimes i think you guys would fight over a penny in the gutter, just for the adrenaline rush.
state your position, agree to disagree, move on.

You are certainly prone to hyperbole. The Israelis have biological weapons (for the purpose of dealing with the Arab world if they were faced with ruin) as well as nuclear. It took a while for people to understand that they did have nukes, but now it is common knowledge. The biological part will come out too, in time.

As to every civilized European nation falling over themselves to assist the Germans... conquered nations with puppet governments might be considered under duress by some. While I am sure that you are aware of the resistance from the Scandanavian countries to such activities you are probably unaware of the shockingly large number of jews who rode out the war in France (and not camps!) thanks to that nations citizens AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Neither of which get any credit (or even mention) in this country. The Barbies of France must've been a minority or it wouldn't have been possible.

Just tell us... are you really jewish? Married to a jew? Jews (or Nazis that you are ashamed of) in the family? I have many jewish friends and an uncle-in-law but none of them are as fanatical about these subjects as you are...

Post from PaoloAR15 -

My dear friend, if this is true less than a generation after the well-known fact of the Holocaust, what will be the outlook one hundred years from now? Two hundred years from now?

And revisionist historians will be able to point to books like the 'Myth of the Six Million' and other books by neo-Nazis to 'prove' that there were 'serious historians' from the latter part of the Twentieth Century who doubted that the Holocaust ever happened at all!

And, that, my dear friend, is why these evil accusations and insinuations must be answered forcefully and at once!  

To have the power and liberty to say [b]'No! That is a lie!'[/b] and to [u]fail[/u] to do so would make you a co-conspirator in the evil done by the Nazis!

You would be just a latter-day Joseph Goebbels!

Eric The(Hardliner)Hun[>]:)]

Exactly, Lurker, I refuse to present any more logical arguments to a professional bickerer (lawyer) and expect anything more than hostile, rambling, off topic, distractions in return.
Someone who bickers for a living is merely annoying, once you figure out that they consider "winning" to be straying off topic, and always having to get the last word in, no matter how low they have to sink to do so.
No wonder most people dislike lawyers, hell, even Shakespeare said, "First, we kill all the lawyers." And Eric, I am not your "Precious". Having a Gollum moment? [;)]