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Posted: 1/30/2002 6:08:40 PM EDT
I have been carrying my ruger p94 with one in the pipe for years now. My boss recently started carrying a glock 23. He is scared to death to keep a round in chamber and he now thinks that he will make it mandatory at work to keep the chamber clear. He also thinks that tactically it does not make a difference. Hell I have been carrying this way for 5 years. I am afraid #1 that if I have to draw I will forget to rack one in and #2 racking it makes too much noise if you want to do it silently. Anyone have any opinions on the safety of carring the gun loaded... personally an empty gun is just a paper weight.
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 6:13:44 PM EDT
I agree with you VTHOKIESHOOTER, fwiw. Good luck with your boss.
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 6:21:55 PM EDT
Your only safety is your finger. Keep it out of the trigger until you are ready to fire the weapon. Next thing to remember is are you afraid of a revolver. Do you have a hang-up on keeping a revolver loaded with a round under the hammer. It is the same thing as a glock,( double action). Feel the trigger pull on a Glock. As you squeeze the trigger, You will feel the take up, This is the stiker pulling the firing pin back, (cocking the hammer if you will). then Squeezing the trigger farther you feel the spriker release the firing pin. Same as the trigger pull on a revolver that is double action. I hope this helps you explain things better to your boss. And remmember, I glock will only fire if you put you trigger finger in the trigger guard and squeeze the trigger.
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 6:24:40 PM EDT
I think he is unqualified to make the decision which isn't his to make.
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 6:25:21 PM EDT
If the boss is that scarred of his G23, he needs to get a Saf-T-block. Its a little do-dad you tuck in behind the trigger and you (supposedly) tap it out with your trigger finger when you draw. Supposedly it wont slow you down. Dillion Precision has them in their catalog. Personally, they seem kinda silly, but what the hey, maybe they would take away the hebegebies from your boss and he would leave you alone. Empty gun = bad idea Good luck
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 6:26:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2002 6:29:29 PM EDT by VTHOKIESHOOTER]
Actually he is afraid to carry the revolver loaded also. He only has 4 rounds loaded in his Smith...the cylinder is empty directly behind the firing pin and the next cylinder is empty too. I am begining to think that he may have had an AD in the years past. Edited to add that I can't wait to see his expresion when I come in to work carrying my Kimber cocked and locked
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 6:28:44 PM EDT
He sounds like a guy who really doesn't want to carry, anyway. You might ask him if he wants to carry unloaded and let the rest of you protect him. [;D]
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 6:28:45 PM EDT
Now thats just silly, on a modern Smith it is "impossible" (yea I know - nothing is impossible) to detonate a round with the hammer down -- hammer block safety.
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 6:32:19 PM EDT
Holy shit, You have to be kidding me. Ok I think I know what you need to do. Roll up a thick wad of toilet paper and place it in his holster. That way he will feel safe that he is carreing something on him and he doesnt have to worry about it acceidently going off and shotting himself, although I could be tempted to shot his dumb-ass for you.
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 6:39:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2002 6:41:01 PM EDT by JIMBEAM]
Empty chamber is a good idea with older revolvers without hammer block. My father always insisted that I keep the hammer down on an empty chamber when I was younger.
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 7:00:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mrassII: Your only safety is your finger. Keep it out of the trigger until you are ready to fire the weapon.
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You been watchin' Blackhawk Down? I believ the bossman needs a lesson in the mechanical workings of his piece. Once fully understood, there should be no question about having one in the pipe or not. Glocks were designed to be carried w/ a round in the chamber. Period. Whatyagonnado? Call "TIMEOUT" gotta rack a round in. Plausable scenario: Bad guy gets first round of and hits you in arm (either) and incapacitates your hand (either). Chambering a round would be a trick indeed.
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 7:07:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SF: You might ask him if he wants to carry unloaded and let the rest of you protect him. [;D]
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Good one! If he won't carry a modern DA revolver fully loaded, there is something wrong. There is "being concerned about safety", and then just plain paranoia. I suspect the latter.
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 7:14:30 PM EDT
I keep my Glock's chamber empty. Primarily because I don't want to have an AD while still half asleep when I hear something at night. I know it's empty and the first think I do when shaking off my sleep is remove it from the holster and chamber a round.
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 8:06:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2002 8:07:55 PM EDT by ColtM4]
I cant believe people are still carrying cold guns. If anyone feels concerned enough to carry cold , they should NOT be carrying. Here's another good reason why a person should not be carrying cold : In order to make your gun ready / hot you must immediately chamber a round after drawing , well the main problem with that is what makes you think that you will have both hands available to properly perform this? What if you are using the other hand to hold off an attacker or clear/open door etc.... KISS ( keep it simple stupid ) has been around for a good reason.
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 8:12:54 PM EDT
One in the chamber is my normal way - pistol OR rifle. Exception is shotgun - the dirtbag's LAST chance is to run like hell when he hears that distinctive sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round!! Maybe I need to rethink that too?
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 8:23:16 PM EDT
Aside from the speed factor ("Timeout, I gotta rack the slide!") why would anyone in their right mind want to carry a weapon with less than its maximum capacity? Sure, he "probably" won't need the 11th (or 14th, if he's got pre-bans for that G23 of his) but personally, [b]my[/b] life is worth more than "probably." Is his? FOUR rounds? For self defense?
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 8:27:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: One in the chamber is my normal way - pistol OR rifle. Exception is shotgun - the dirtbag's LAST chance is to run like hell when he hears that distinctive sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round!! Maybe I need to rethink that too?
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I keep one in there too. Makes more of an impressing when he/she/it see's a shell fly out. This way they know it's loaded and not just there for sound. You could always go pick it up later.
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 8:30:57 PM EDT
Tell your boss about a Glock being loaded and dropped from a helicopter. It didn't go off and it functioned perfect.Also tell him he may only have one to three seconds to react. If he dosen't already have one in the pipe. Then he's already taken one to three in the chest. I could see him making a rule that at all times except selfdefense all guns must stay holstered.
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 8:56:34 PM EDT
Good point Vinnie! Think I will make that change. Now just got to practice enough to remember the safety....
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 9:04:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 12:37:57 AM EDT
Carrying a round in the chamber in a well-designed and built handgun just makes sense. LEO’s do it all the time. (Doing it, say, with a Jennings semi-auto or under the hammer of a Colt SSA is, of course, a whole different story.) In addition to the problems already listed with an empty chamber, keep in mind that in a high stress situation there’s a good chance of fumbling while cycling the slide. Also, while extremely unlikely, there is always the possibility of a slamfire. Whenever possible, rounds should be chambered while pointing the pistol in a safe direction – this might not be possible during a confrontation. As Wolfpack says, a good holster is essential. This is especially true with a partially cocked pistol such as a Glock. (I recall an incident a few years ago where a Deputy US Marshall shot himself in a most intimate place while sliding a Glock into his waistband.) If you boss is uncomfortable with a round in the chamber of his Glock, he should consider a different pistol. Possibly he’d feel more comfortable with a semi-auto requiring a full pull of the trigger, such as some of the Walthers, Sigs, Rugers, S&W’s, etc. If this isn’t enough for him, he could also consider a double action semi with a manual safety, such as some Rugers, S&W’s, etc. However, I certainly disagree with the statement that a pistol with an unchambered round is useless. Various Israeli police organizations carry their Browning Hi-Powers, etc., like that – and they certainly know something about gunfights! I also carried a .45 like that in the service without any great qualms. Ultimately, the ability to survive a gunfight depends a lot more on an individual’s skill rather than how exactly the gun is carried.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 4:35:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER: ...I can't wait to see his expresion when I come in to work carrying my Kimber cocked and locked
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You postal workers crack me up! DrMark
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 4:44:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER: I have been carrying my ruger p94 with one in the pipe for years now. My boss recently started carrying a glock 23. He is scared to death to keep a round in chamber and he now thinks that he will make it mandatory at work to keep the chamber clear. He also thinks that tactically it does not make a difference. Hell I have been carrying this way for 5 years. I am afraid #1 that if I have to draw I will forget to rack one in and #2 racking it makes too much noise if you want to do it silently. Anyone have any opinions on the safety of carring the gun loaded... personally an empty gun is just a paper weight.
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Excuse me, but what line of work are you in? Do you not have a S.O.P. on the condition in which your firearm(s) will be carried? I take it from the post that you are not in L.E., so what authority does your boss have over the condition of carry for your weapon? Has your boss undergone any friearms training and additional transistion training for the Glock?
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 6:59:43 AM EDT
I would also have to ask what line of work you are in...and does your boss have ANY training with a firearm. It basically sounds like he is really scared to even carry one..I mean come on...he has a revolver with only 4 rounds because he wants to leave 2 chambers empty...so that means he has to pull the trigger twice before he gets a shot off...that is one of the most stupid things I have heard. I know the older revolvers it was a good idea to keep the hammer down on an empty chamber but it still only required you to pull the trigger to get a shot off...your boss has to pull f-ing twice. Every firearm I carry has a round in the tube...handgun, rifle, and shotgun. I do not want to take that little bit of extra time to chamber a round. I carry a firearm concealed everyday....very seldom do I use a holster...I have even carried my 1911 .45 cocked and locked stuck inside my pants without a holster, carried a glock 27 and 22 with one in the tube this same way. You have to be properly trained with the firearm you carry. You have to know what is going to make it go bang (duh...pull of the trigger) That is if you carry a quality firearm. Someone mentioned above that they wouldn't carry a Jenning or Lorcin or other cheap POS with a round in the chamber. I wouldn't even carry one of those and have my life depend on it. Tell your boss or suggest it with pamplets or something about actually getting some training...something that will give him the knowledge about the Glock and revolver. One can be safe and expected to be safe with firearms...If I had to depend on your boss saving my life with his firearm I don't think I would work with him. Sorry about the rant but things like this just make me mad... medcop
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 2:27:14 PM EDT
We are consulting foresters...........why is he able to tell me what and how to carry? He is the owner and makes the rules.........he has been around guns a long time 20+, but he really hasn't taken the time to understand things. Glad to see that my belief has been validated.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 2:37:49 PM EDT
Can't speak for glocks, I don't own any. Initially I was leary of carrying a handgun with a loaded chamber. After taking apart my Sig 229 and HK USP I see that it is pretty much impossible for the pin to hit the primer with those and most other modern handguns without the trigger being depressed. I would tell him to look at how police officers carry. They carry with a round in the chamber, this is sanctioned by the department. Obviously they view a loaded chamber as less of a liability than an empty one!
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 3:52:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: One in the chamber is my normal way - pistol OR rifle. Exception is shotgun - the dirtbag's LAST chance is to run like hell when he hears that distinctive sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round!! Maybe I need to rethink that too?
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If you rack that slide on that scattergun, now I know where you are and you are dead. The last thing you want to do is give up your esconded position. GG
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 4:29:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER: We are consulting foresters...........why is he able to tell me what and how to carry? He is the owner and makes the rules.........he has been around guns a long time 20+, but he really hasn't taken the time to understand things. Glad to see that my belief has been validated.
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You had no email listed so I will try and address you through this post. Is your boss responsive to your suggestions? What is your primary threat? Wild animals, snakes or humans? Are you at risk of stumbling on to meth labs or pot fields/growers? Can you invite your boss to take some training with you? If so, approach a NRA Law Enforcement; Security or Self Defense Instructor and determine what the time and costs would be for some training to educate your boss. If not viable, get some printed material on firearms safety and try to convince him to read it. Good luck.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 5:11:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gun Guru:
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: One in the chamber is my normal way - pistol OR rifle. Exception is shotgun - the dirtbag's LAST chance is to run like hell when he hears that distinctive sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round!! Maybe I need to rethink that too?
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If you rack that slide on that scattergun, now I know where you are and you are dead. The last thing you want to do is give up your esconded position. GG
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Only if you're a cold blooded killer out to KILL him. Most two-bit punks and home invaders would shit their pants at the sound of a 12ga slide racking. Even if you're a cold blooded killer, and he racks his slide, you know where he's at. Chances are, you're on ground familiar to him, and now you KNOW he has a 12ga.... proceed at your own risk! hehehe
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 7:31:16 PM EDT
Gun Guru, point taken. However, I am not dumb enough to think he doesn't know where I am anyway. He best use his shot to advantage - otherwise that 12ga makes a nasty wound at close range!! Most dirtbags sneaking around in a house, at night, where they DO NOT belong are scared shitless to begin with. Add anything else to that level of stress and they will either flee or try to shoot me. Just because they heard that 12 ga rack does NOT prove exactly where I am. I know the AO and I suspect he does not. He will need to be VERY lucky or he will be VERY dead. After any round fired in darkness and at close range, neither party is going to see much for a while. It is not my desire to kill him if he is willing to flee. To me, killing the dirtbag is a last resort. I will, but that does not mean I want to, even if I legally have the right. I will take the chance because that is what I can live with.
Link Posted: 1/31/2002 8:35:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/1/2002 12:14:20 AM EDT
I have a Glock 23 and I have been carrying for almost 3 years with one in the chamber and I have not had a problem. A friend of mine had a Glock brand new out of the box(I forget what model it was but it was a 45). The first clip no problem. On the next clip the first two rounds went fine, but on the third pull of the trigger his whole clip emptied in full auto. Same on the third clip. Needless to say he took the gun back. I know that had nothing to do with this topic, but I thought that it was an interesting story!!!
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