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Posted: 1/27/2002 6:00:39 PM EDT
Had a catastrophic case failure in a FAL today. Milsurp IMI .308, purchased right before Y2K. Blew the bottom off the mag, bent the rattail a bit, no other gun damage, but geeeeeez!!! [IMG]http://album.gunsnet.net/data/mp40/17_p1626.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://album.gunsnet.net/data/mp40/full_17_p1627.jpg[/IMG] Watch out for this stuff!! We had a couple others split, but nothing like THIS!
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 6:19:05 PM EDT
Abend Hannah, Alles klar? Anyway, on this side of the Pond I also had problems with IMI ammo bearing the same headstamp as the one in your pic. I didn't experience any splits but did encounter a large number of slamfires in both a FAL and a G3 about 4 years ago. After this I discarded the stuff and didn't shoot any (surplus) IMI 7.62NATO anymore. Prosit, RG.nl
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 6:21:36 PM EDT
YIKES!! I have never had such a catastrophic case failure. Did you experience this with any other ammo? Are you and your rifle okay? Have you checked the headspace of your gun? Sounds to me like excessive headspace. That kinda of stuff would scarce the piss out of me.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 6:42:15 PM EDT
Headspace is fine, rechecked it with gauges when we got it home. This ammo has had some small splits when fired in my M1A as well. Don't think it was the gun. FAL is ok, we are ok. IMI sucks.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 6:44:17 PM EDT
Hannah_R, Was that by any chance some of the IMI that was originally linked, surplus ammo? Hope you and your rifle are okay.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 6:55:43 PM EDT
Dunno if it was ever linked, the source was Paragon. We and the gun are fine, thanks :)
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 6:57:37 PM EDT
This is a known deal. It was posted on the falfile web board. The IMI is good stuff, but dont shoot the ones with the "TZ 80" headstamps. These are the ones that are giving some people these failures. Very dangerous. All the other stuff was fine. At least, mine all has been. I believe all this stuff was from that real cheap southern ammo.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 7:23:21 PM EDT
Who is importing .308 IMI ammo currently? Anyone?
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 7:52:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch: Headspace is fine, rechecked it with gauges when we got it home. This ammo has had some small splits when fired in my M1A as well. Don't think it was the gun. FAL is ok, we are ok. IMI sucks.
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Glad everything/everybody is okay. I would pull the bullets, and use it another day; and discard the powder and case. OT: If you are going pull the bullet with a kinetic hammer puller, you have got to break the case neck seal with a loading press and bullet seater. You have just got the move the bullet a few thousandths of an inch to break the tar-like substance.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 7:56:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch: Dunno if it was ever linked, the source was Paragon.
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Why am I not surprised?? I've never heard anything good about Paragon.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 8:01:52 PM EDT
Pull the bullet and section a case if you get curious. Was this ammo in a sealed case, or bulk packed? Perhaps some shifty group got some of this ammo as a lot of "scratch and dent" and attempted to tumble polish it or used some ammonia based cleaner on the cases to increase resale value?
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 8:57:25 PM EDT
IMI "match" surplus shoots worse then other regular surplus for me. I don't buy IMI ammo anymore.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 9:04:55 PM EDT
IMI makes some of the very best brass in 223 for target shooters. I have no idea what went wrong with this 308 but I would never put this stuff in a rifle again. Thanks for pitching it out and not selling it.. I use IMI as my long range brass in my ar dcm rifle and have never had a problem, in fact it is my prefered brass. It ranks right up there with norma in quality but at ww brass prices.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 9:17:06 PM EDT
IMI makes good ammo. Ever hear of Q3131A we all like so much? This is related to the 1980 production year, and typically happens to loose packed ammo, of unknown origins. [url]http://www.falfiles.com/cgi-bin/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=000144[/url] [url]http://www.falfiles.com/cgi-bin/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=000521[/url] I personally bought 1000 rds of loose packed .308 from "southern ammo" and have had 100% reliability thus far. I doubt I will be buying it again tho....
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 4:07:31 AM EDT
DAMN!..............and I just bought some....(not too much though.....whew!)
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 8:35:51 AM EDT
Just pull out any marked TZ 80. The rest should be fine and dandy.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 8:48:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FALARAK: I personally bought 1000 rds of loose packed .308 from "southern ammo" and have had 100% reliability thus far. I doubt I will be buying it again tho....
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I have had pretty bad luck with this ammo. A lot of hard primers, but they usually fired the second time through. I think I had the same problem that Hannah did. I was rat-a-tatting away and there was an unusual POP and the base plate blew out of the mag. It scared me shitless, because I thought my newly built gun just blew. I couldnt find the casing, because of tall grass, but I'm willing to bet that it was split. BEWARE SURPLUS AMMO!!! There is a reason why the military makes it SURPLUS.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 8:49:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2002 8:50:15 AM EDT by MarineGrunt]
The headstamp on this ammo was "TZ" (Isreali)
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 9:13:23 PM EDT
I had the same thing happen with this ammo in a NM M1A. Bought the ammo from Burns Bros (now Wholesale Guns and Ammo). After the kaboom, I checked some of the fired cases and found small fissures in the side near the base. The case head on the KB had split in three places from the primer pocket up the side. BB tried to tell me it was the headspacing on my rifle.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 9:44:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 12:01:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 1:00:14 PM EDT
I use IMI brass and bullets, nothing but high quality, I have some portugese .308, it was in sealed battle packs and many were green and corroded.
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 1:08:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: There was a HUGE lot of 1980-production IMI (TZ headstamp) .308 that was deployed and later water-damaged, and allowed to sit in the heat and corrode. This ammo was eventually imported and sold here at discount prices a couple of years ago. That's what the problem is. IMI is high-quality ammo, but any ammo that's been improperly stored can have serious problems as shown here. As stated, this is a well-documented problem with this lot of ammo. -Troy
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Thanks Troy. I'll bet that was the problem with mine. I'm going to pull all the 1980 TZ out of my ammo can.
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 1:13:29 PM EDT
This brings up a related question... What is a safe way to dispose of unwanted ammo?
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 1:28:03 PM EDT
Small piles of powder can be burnt.You can also flush it.Or spread it out and mix with dirt and water thourghly[good fertilizer]Primers can be deactivated with oil wd40 ect.Turn the brass in for scrap.The brass ads up.I just turned in $140.00 worth.
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 1:34:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: This brings up a related question... What is a safe way to dispose of unwanted ammo?
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I'm just gonna pull the bullets and shitcan everything else.
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 1:59:10 PM EDT
Anyone wanna buy 109 rounds of IMI 7.62??? I'll give ya a good price! [;)]
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 2:34:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: This brings up a related question... What is a safe way to dispose of unwanted ammo?
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Drive the boat five miles out in lake...whatever....drop it in milk jugs full of sand............[spank]
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 8:42:46 PM EDT
What a crappy day. First my Aimpoint CompM stops working, and now I realize I have half a case of potentially worthless (and damaging!) ammo...
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 8:50:54 PM EDT
Well, HKocher, I hadn't seen the warnings about this batch either. Hopefully this saved you some potentially dangerous and/or expensive kB's. A half a case of ammo is nothing, compared to body parts, or a beloved gun. So smile [:D]
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 4:53:15 AM EDT
Good point. Just think, a month ago, I was being cheap and shooting that crap out of my 91, that could have turned out very badly.
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