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Posted: 1/24/2002 2:25:21 AM EDT
I just heard on the news that American Taliban suspect John Walker is back in the states to face charges (conspiracy instead of treason, wrong on so many levels I wont even start) and the story is, his attorneys are trying to get his confesion thrown out so the U.S. courts wont have a case against against him. What kind of bottom feeding, non-patriotic lawyer is taking this case!!! The man confessed, he shouldent get a trial, he should be setanced imediatly and punishment should begin as soon as possible. Send him to a nice prison down south or to New York state, (even the convicts there are pissed) either way, he will be sumarily executed and the PC U.S. court system wont have to be held responsable. I gotta get back to work, I'll be back later with an opinion on the bleeding hearts complaining about the way the prisoners in Gitmo are being treated... [:)>] HUNTCLUBSEC...OUT
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 4:08:14 AM EDT
this board always hits both sides, it's great. I'm sure someone here will say its a good thing the confession will be thrown out, its one of the few rights we have that the "JBTs" have yet to get rid of, though the "war" on drugs may be used as a "front" to take away the "right to have confessions thrown out."
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 4:17:43 AM EDT
He has his first hearing at 9:00 AM today in DC. He has no attorneys. As he has renounced his American citizenship, he has no right to an attorney. His rich father has hired a couple, but the judge at the hearing says that he has no duty to acknowledge these attorneys. As Walker has given a CNN interview where he basically confessed in detail everything that he's accused of, it ought to be pretty quick. Norm in NJ
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 4:29:37 AM EDT
It's a real Freak Show isn't it? Taliwacker John is getting attention because the media wants him to have attention. If there was one of us fighting for the white farmers in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, how much "press" would we get? Justice? Hell! There is no true justice....... How much justice you get depends on how much $$$$$$ you have. I've seen that "up close and personal" in court.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 4:44:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TUMOR: It's a real Freak Show isn't it? Taliwacker John is getting attention because the media wants him to have attention. If there was one of us fighting for the white farmers in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, how much "press" would we get?
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Agreed, but that has nothing to do with the federal system, that's just our f'ed up media.
Originally Posted By TUMOR: Justice? Hell! There is no true justice....... How much justice you get depends on how much $$$$$$ you have. I've seen that "up close and personal" in court.
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What? Have you ever spent any time in the federal court system, especially my own 4th Circuit? Sorry to burst your cynical bubble, but there is PLENTY of "justice" handed out in our Circuit. I've been practicing for 11 years in that court, it's not a pretty place if you are a defendant, and I don't care if Christ Himself is on retainer and standing next to you. So far as the confession given while in custody, it seems moot to me. Even if suppressed on constitutional grounds (I'm sure bases were covered, but you never know), he gave statements to the media that were clearly inculpatory. Can't suppress that; the media is not the government. He's f*cked.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:23:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Steve-in-VA: So far as the confession given while in custody, it seems moot to me. Even if suppressed on constitutional grounds (I'm sure bases were covered, but you never know), he gave statements to the media that were clearly inculpatory. Can't suppress that; the media is not the government. He's f*cked.
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But, as I have noticed in some high profile events in the not too distant past, The media carries alot of weight with the opinions of Joe Citizen. Alot of people believe what the media tells them is the truth when really all it is is the editors rendition of what he/she believes should be the truth. [:)>]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:40:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 8:46:11 AM EDT by trickshot]
Personally (and I know someone will try to tear me a new one) I don't think the government's case is very good. Conspiracy is the lamest of all charges--the one that the BATF loves the most, in other words. Our legal system involves not justice whatsoever. The Bob Stewart case is a good example. I hope Walker walks. He's no threat to anyone and his confession was coerced--it's right there on the tape--"you decide whether you want to cooperate with us. Live or die--we can get the Red Cross in here to help you, but they can only help so many" or words to that effect. What is unpatriotic about defending Walker? It has nothing to do with patriotism. Stop casting aspersions and defending the government. It is patriotic to question authority and stand up for truth, not follow every government edict like some kind of sheep. If that's all a patriot is, then I don't want to be one. It is rumored that Spann and other CIA operatives may have been torturing people over there--pouring oil on them and lighting them up. There are also rumors that the special forces guys leaked those tapes and that without them, Walker would have never been identified as an American and would now be dead, dumped in an anonymous grave someplace. It is unclear who exactly beat Spann to death and how the uprising got started. Maybe some Americans were involved, who knows? If the CIA was torturing people, isn't that unpatriotic as well? Is it unpatriotic to kill a fellow American who is torturing people?
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:45:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 8:45:26 AM EDT by Major-Murphy]
Originally Posted By trickshot: Spann and other CIA operatives were torturing people over there--pouring oil on them and lighting them up.
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Says who? Why would you stoop to believe such an unfounded rumor? Does it fit well within your beliefs? When the enemy is feeding you propaganda, why are you so hungry to eat it up and ask for more? Learn to think critically.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:47:31 AM EDT
Learn to think critically.
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My critical thinking skills are in no way lacking, I assure you.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:59:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 9:00:11 AM EDT by Major-Murphy]
Then why do you repeat our enemies' lies and propaganda, as though it is the truth? If you honestly believe it to be true, then you DO lack critical thinking ability. If, however, your critical thinking abilities are not lacking, one must assume that you spread this propaganda as part of some other agenda.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:07:47 AM EDT
Ok, Trickshot..... You obviously have chosen to side with a traitor. This implies that either you are also a traitor, a troll, or someone that identifies heavily with "taliban john's" background. So which is it? You hate the USA?......fine, leave. You had a fag father too, and are another spoiled Bay Area product of liberality?.....No surprise there either. Sorry if "Daddy" touched you there, it wasn't your fault. Or you are a troll, waiting to scream about how they all "attack you for speaking out"?.....Are you playing hookey from Junior High *again*?
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:12:29 AM EDT
the american justice system is the biggest joke in history.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:15:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 9:15:40 AM EDT by Major-Murphy]
Not too bright, are you?
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:33:34 AM EDT
This thread is pretty sickening. 1) Renouncing your citizenship does NOT strip you of the right to council. In case you've forgotten (and I'm afraid some of you have) this is the United States, and our laws are [b]supposed[/b] to protect all equally, citizen or not. Whether you think Walker should be drawn and quartered, or he got a raw deal, the fact that he gets a [b]fair[/b] trial should be important to you. If it isn't, in my opinion, you're worse than he is. 2) I honestly [b]cannot[/b] see any crime he committed against our country. There's no evidence that he was even peripherally involved in Sept 11th. Having given up his citizenship, there's nothing "illegal" about him fighting against US-backed forces. Treat him like the other Taliban soldiers captured--either imprison him until the end of the "war" and then deport his ass, or extradite him somewhere he's actually committed a crime. I can already forsee what this "trial" will be like. "Secret" evidence that cannot be disclosed even to the defense, "wittnesses" that even Walker's lawyers will not be able to question due to "national security," and a "jury" that no one will ever see. I bet even the courtroom will be cleared. Everytime a Constitutional protection is weakened, it affects you, whether you want to believe it or not. Don't suggest doing away with due process because you don't like somebody. Don't cheer the gvoernment line, just because that's ALL you'r ehearing from "reputable" sources. And [b]don't[/b] compromise MY rights in your idiotic quest for revenge
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:43:55 AM EDT
Personally, I think we could have avoided this whole mess by just leaving him in Afghanastan to fend for himself, and never lettting him back in the country.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:44:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 9:45:23 AM EDT by Major-Murphy]
[i]Please Zak,[/i] Why is it that those of you who so often are complaining about our government's Tyranny, seem at the same time to be wishing it to be true? ...Doing everything possible to characterize every action our government takes as evil. Are you just tired of being called paranoids, and want there to finally be some meat to your claims? I can assure you Zak, my "quest for revenge" is not idiotic. Don't you want revenge, too? Or do you feel that we somehow deserved the attacks? Grow up guys.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:48:11 AM EDT
What kind of bottom feeding, non-patriotic lawyer is taking this case!!!
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Are you insulting the lawyer for defending an "undersirable?" Do you really think we should dictate who is allowed to have a fair trail and fair representation? Does equal protection mean anything to you? I'm one of those "baby killer" assault weapon owners. I'm sure some people would like to see me be denied a fair trail.z
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:50:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Norm_G: He has his first hearing at 9:00 AM today in DC. He has no attorneys. As he has renounced his American citizenship, he has no right to an attorney. His rich father has hired a couple, but the judge at the hearing says that he has no duty to acknowledge these attorneys. Norm in NJ
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Norm, are you saying "Walker" has renounced his citizenship and that renouncement has been recognized by a Federal judge ? ? The answer to this question will certainly affect my reply to the Topic.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:52:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zak: This thread is pretty sickening.
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No, defending the Taliban, Al Quaida and OBL is sickening (that's what "Ratboy" did in case you forgot).
2) I honestly [b]cannot[/b] see any crime he committed against our country. There's no evidence that he was even peripherally involved in Sept 11th.
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He admitted he knew of OBL's WTC plot as far back as June '01. He then continued to give aid and support to them, and continued to take up arms to help defend those who were plotting the WTC terrorism. Ergo, "he be terrorist too"!!
I can already forsee what this "trial" will be like. "Secret" evidence that cannot be disclosed even to the defense, "wittnesses" that even Walker's lawyers will not be able to question due to "national security," and a "jury" that no one will ever see. I bet even the courtroom will be cleared.
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And the downside of that is...?
Everytime a Constitutional protection is weakened, it affects you, whether you want to believe it or not.
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And evertime an "American" knowingly gives aid and support to, and takes up arms in defense of those who plot the violent destruction of America, it affects YOU, whether you want to beleive it or not.
And [b]don't[/b] compromise MY rights in your idiotic quest for revenge
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Okay, so stay out of the way and YOU won't be affected by this act of "revenge".
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:55:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Avtomat: this board always hits both sides, it's great. I'm sure someone here will say its a good thing the confession will be thrown out, its one of the few rights we have that the "JBTs" have yet to get rid of, though the "war" on drugs may be used as a "front" to take away the "right to have confessions thrown out."
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The laws passed to fight the "War on Drugs" plus the laws passed to combat the "Mafia" are truly awe inspiring. (NOT !) These laws are always passed in the name of combating something/someone evil but everyone seems to forget the laws actually apply to us all. (The Conspiracy Laws come to mind - immediately.)
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:59:20 AM EDT
Not exactly on topic but I get pissed every time the media would say anything like "Walker is coming HOME." I do not believe America has been HOME to Mr. Walker for quite some time.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 10:01:05 AM EDT
heh, heh... ...his dad's gay. [:)]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 10:06:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: heh, heh... ...his dad's gay. [:)]
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Let's see... Twinkie defense - taken Sleepwalking - didn't work before PMS defense - wrong sex Gay dad? - hmm... looks promising! [:D]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 10:08:11 AM EDT
I can assure you Zak, my "quest for revenge" is not idiotic. Don't you want revenge, too? Or do you feel that we somehow deserved the attacks?
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On the contrary, I too want the hides of those who planned and executed the attacks, and those who provided material support. These people are enemies of our country, have made themselves combatants, and deserve a visit from SEALs, Delta, marines, the air force, navy, and even old mrs. johnson with her single shot break action 12 gauge. I want justice visited upon those involved. I most certainly do [b]not[/b] want my government to engage those who had no part in any of it! I don't wish government tyranny to be real (though I recognize that it is, and has been getting steadily worse for longer than I've been alive) and I most certainly do NOT characterize every action of my government as "evil." But when we ignore our own laws in the name of expediencey, vengence, or for any other reason, we invite the government to take another step. Don't believe me? Look at the "war on drugs" and compare the state of your rights now to what they were before we started "fighting" drug use. The "war on terror" will be even worse.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 10:10:09 AM EDT
The American justice system is, by far, the best in the world. No other country comes close. Period. You don't like it? Then fvcking leave.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 10:48:58 AM EDT
He admitted he knew of OBL's WTC plot as far back as June '01. He then continued to give aid and support to them, and continued to take up arms to help defend those who were plotting the WTC terrorism. Ergo, "he be terrorist too"!!
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MacAllan: I hadn't heard that report. If it's true, I hope he's convicted (and think that "conspiracy" just won't cut it. That [b]is[/b] treason!)
I can already forsee what this "trial" will be like. "Secret" evidence that cannot be disclosed even to the defense, "wittnesses" that even Walker's lawyers will not be able to question due to "national security," and a "jury" that no one will ever see. I bet even the courtroom will be cleared. And the downside of that is...?
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The downside is it violates the 6th amendment. And if it can be done to him, it can be done to anyone. [b]Amendment VI In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.[/b] In the scenario described above, which you have no problem with, the trial will not be public, and he would not have the right to confront the witnesses. Look, if he IS guilty, he deserves to burn. Hell, I'll throw the switch! But I'm not willing to sacrifice the Constitution on the altar of "justice" just to "prove" it!
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 10:57:26 AM EDT
Why didn't this scumbag MF just die in that prison uprising? Why? Why? Why? Why?
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 11:11:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 11:25:17 AM EDT by Arock]
I'm still trying to get a good hold on this RatBoy & Treason issue. Does Treason not pertain only to American citizens? And did not the judge acknowledge RatBoy had renounced and thereby lost his American citizenship. So can RatBoy be charged with Treason if he's not a citizen? And if as the judge says RatBoy is not an American citizen then what are we doing bringing him back to the USA for trial? It looks like whatever "laws" he might be accused of are not American laws. And if he's being tried as a foreign national in some "conspiracy" against our soldiers or country what's he doing in an American court? Shouldn't he be in some kind of military "tribunal"? But if he's not a US citizen, not posessed of a citizen's Constitutional protections, not charged with Treason and not being tried in a military tribunal but instead in a US court of law for "conspiracy" not an actual act of force against US soldiers or citizens then why's he being treated differently than the Taliban and Al-Queda in Afghanistan and Gauntanamo? The whole d@mn thing's circular reasoning to me. I still don't adequately grasp what's going on here unless it's simply a publicity stunt on the part of the American government. But that's certain to backfire given our ultra-liberal anti-freedon anti-American media. This whole thing stinks but I don't understand it well enough to find what smells so bad.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 11:20:46 AM EDT
This vaginal blood fart should have just been handed over to the new government there to be strung up as soon as they got their first telephone pole set in the ground.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 11:26:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: [i]Please Zak,[/i] Why is it that those of you who so often are complaining about our government's Tyranny, seem at the same time to be wishing it to be true? ...Doing everything possible to characterize every action our government takes as evil. Are you just tired of being called paranoids, and want there to finally be some meat to your claims? I can assure you Zak, my "quest for revenge" is not idiotic. Don't you want revenge, too? Or do you feel that we somehow deserved the attacks? Grow up guys.
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the problem is that the tyranny is only issued to those undeserving of it. they terrorise the gun owners whome are the cornerstone of freedom, but have a "fair rial" for a treasonist traitor. this is what happens in all dictatorships.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:01:30 PM EDT
Honestly "the_survivalist", Please don't consider this a flame. You seem very unhappy with your situation. Go back to school, read more, better yourself. You often post that you feel isolated, alone and desperate. For God's sake man, you spelling and grammar is atrocious! This just might have something to do with the position in which you find yourself. The true cornerstone of freedom is not "gunowners". It's knowledge. Fight ignorance.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:16:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: ...For God's sake man, you spelling and grammar is atrocious!...
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[:D]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:16:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zak: I can already forsee what this "trial" will be like. "Secret" evidence that cannot be disclosed even to the defense, "wittnesses" that even Walker's lawyers will not be able to question due to "national security," and a "jury" that no one will ever see. I bet even the courtroom will be cleared.
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This would apply to only NON-Americans who are to be tried in military tribunals. It has already been stated REPEATEDLY that he would be tried by a regular Federal court. Get your "facts" straight.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:18:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: I hope Walker walks. He's no threat to anyone and his confession was coerced--it's right there on the tape--"you decide whether you want to cooperate with us. Live or die--we can get the Red Cross in here to help you, but they can only help so many" or words to that effect. What is unpatriotic about defending Walker? It has nothing to do with patriotism. Stop casting aspersions and defending the government. It is patriotic to question authority and stand up for truth, not follow every government edict like some kind of sheep. If that's all a patriot is, then I don't want to be one. It is rumored that Spann and other CIA operatives may have been torturing people over there--pouring oil on them and lighting them up. There are also rumors that the special forces guys leaked those tapes and that without them,
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Are you a refugee from UndergroundDemocat.com?
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:32:48 PM EDT
They often charge according to what they can prove to win a conviction, not what may be right. The legal definition of treason is difficult to apply in this case, from what I have read.
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 3:34:11 AM EDT
Ok Aperantly some of my feelings were not conveyed correctly, my bust. My feeling is that every AMERICAN deserves a fair trial, but if J.W.L. did infact renounce his U.S. citizenship, he is not entitled to one. He should be shipped off to Gitmo with the rest of his Taliban buddies till the end of the war then returned to Ashcanistan (his country of choice). My problem is, the lawyers. If the case is high profile and they have a chance to make a boat load of money, they seem to not care if the client is guilty or not. If I commited a crime, I could not afford to buy my way out of a conviction. I would have a down home attorney who believed in what he was doing, and I would probably go to jail. Its a MONEY TALKS society. even in court. Bottom line... If J.W.L. is an American in his heart give him a FAIR trial, if he is'nt, send his a$$ back where he belongs. [:)>]
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 5:33:04 AM EDT
The American justice system is, by far, the best in the world. No other country comes close. Period. You don't like it? Then fvcking leave.
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Jeez John, you've obviously never been a *target* of that same system. But, presumably, you're a gun owner. And, you live in California. So it's only a matter of time . . .
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 5:39:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2002 6:00:50 AM EDT by Major-Murphy]
Originally Posted By trickshot: I hope Walker walks. He's no threat to anyone and his confession was coerced--it's right there on the tape--"you decide whether you want to cooperate with us. Live or die--we can get the Red Cross in here to help you, but they can only help so many" or words to that effect
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I still find it amazing that you not only spread enemy propaganda, BUT right here is a straight up lie. Yes Spann and the CIA said the above words. That was BEFORE they even knew that Walker was American, AND that's not when he confessed. What you describe is the interview at the prison, before the riots. His confession was given (weeks later) to the FBI, after he was made aware of his rights, AND he had refused an atty.. Trickshot, why lie in order to put your own country in the worst light? Worse, you cleverly take pieces of the truth, and refashion them into a lie. What is behind your agenda?
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 5:50:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: This vaginal blood fart...
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LMAO!!! Thanks a lot you fvucking Gyrene!!! Coffee thru the nose again!!! Don Out (as he cleans off the keyboard & waits for the burning sensation in the sinuses to subside)
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 5:52:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2002 5:52:48 AM EDT by 11H1P]
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: ...For God's sake man, you spelling and grammar is atrocious!...
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[:D]
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I went to "grammar's" house just yesterday- she made roast...MMMM!
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 7:18:14 AM EDT
if J.W.L. did infact renounce his U.S. citizenship, he is not entitled to one.
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That's not correct. By default, any person is entitled to a fair trial. From the 5th amendment, "nor shall any person...be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." From the 14th amendment, "nor to deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." Note, they state any person. They do not state "the people" or "the citizens." For many years, blacks were treated differently than whites, because they weren't recognized as citizens of a state or land owners or could afford a poll tax or etc.. The equal protection clause was created to end this. Equal protection is a good thing for gun owners. One day, this might be used to prevent laws from singling-out gun owners. I saw black gun owners singled-out in Columbia, SC in the 60's, and it wasn't pretty. Johnson v. Eisentrager is the precedent used to hold POW's. In this case, the Supreme Court ruled that anyone participating in "armed hostilities against the United States" does not have the right to due process. The only reason they do not have this right is that the Constitution specifies that the writ of habeas corpus can be suspended when public safety requires it. It isn't because of any limitation within the Bill of Rights. Technically, they still have the right, but it is suspended. huntclubsec, your argument would work if you said he wasn't entitled to a trial, because of his actions. The simple fact of not having citizenship doesn't disqualify him from the right to a trial.z
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 7:25:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: Honestly "the_survivalist", For God's sake man, you spelling and grammar is atrocious! Fight ignorance.
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Despite the opportunity I believe I'll choose to be understanding.
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 7:28:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 8:32:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2002 8:33:32 AM EDT by huntclubsec]
Originally Posted By zoom: "nor to deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." J.W.L. was not in within an American Juristiction. For many years, blacks were treated differently than whites, because they weren't recognized as citizens of a state. J.W.L. renounced his citizenship, therefore he is not a state resident. Equal protection is a good thing for gun owners. One day, this might be used to prevent laws from singling-out gun owners First sensable thing you've said. But I'm willing to bet an average american gun owner will take a worse beating in court than J.W.L. after the High$$$ lawyers get done. [:)>]
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 8:49:33 AM EDT
I actually attempt to read replies but maybe I'm blind. Does anyone know if "Walker" has actually renounced his citizenship [?] (Depending on the answer there could/should be a world of difference in the replies.) [X]
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 8:57:01 AM EDT
J.W.L. was not in within an American Juristiction.
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It doesn't matter. Our rights don't end at the border and the limits applied to the government don't end at the border. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that, for example, the right to due process is a right [i]only within our borders.[/i] If what you said was true, then the FBI could arrest any American citizen abroad and keep them indefinitely without a trial. This was a hot topic of discussion when Manuel Noriega was arrested in Panama. There weren't many dissenting opinions on whether or not he deserved a fair trial.
But I'm willing to bet an average american gun owner will take a worse beating in court than J.W.L. after the High$$$ lawyers get done.
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Unfortunately, I agree with that.z
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 9:10:22 AM EDT
The downside is it violates the 6th amendment. And if it can be done to him, it can be done to anyone. [b]Amendment VI In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.[/b] In the scenario described above, which you have no problem with, the trial will not be public, and he would not have the right to confront the witnesses. Look, if he IS guilty, he deserves to burn. Hell, I'll throw the switch! But I'm not willing to sacrifice the Constitution on the altar of "justice" just to "prove" it![/quote] Actually, the constitution might not apply to him, nor would the after effects apply to us. Walker is not an American anymore, his circumstances will not relate to Americans since this is not a jury trial, nor did these events take place on American soil. This stupid mother fauker got himself into a world of hurt and I hope we reciprocate in kind. The legal system is hardly corrupt, here in NYC, I know that the bad guys go away, however money does buy the best and the best are able to get some of the lessor crime doers off, i can't argue that one. Lastly, Walkers confession will stand. HOWEVER, on the OUTSIDE chance that it doesn't, the mere fact that he was found where he was and doing what he did, he can be charged and will be convicted of a lot. He has no chance of running around with his rag head ass buddies anymore. His ass now belongs to Bubba in cell block 69.
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 9:20:03 AM EDT
But if he's not a US citizen, not posessed of a citizen's Constitutional protections, not charged with Treason and not being tried in a military tribunal but instead in a US court of law for "conspiracy" not an actual act of force against US soldiers or citizens then why's he being treated differently than the Taliban and Al-Queda in Afghanistan and Gauntanamo? The whole d@mn thing's circular reasoning to me.
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He's being treated differently because you can't make him dissappear. The ragheads in Cuba are ghosts, they don't exist anymore. Suuuure, they'll get their trial, but they aren't important to the legitimacy of the legal system. Johhny Rag is different. He is important as an example and a scarey one at that. The government wants to show that whatever rights you think you have are tossed once you side with the enemy. Most people aren't familiar with the laws to understand that this is only a scare tactic. If you were to be charged with the same crimes for offenses committed within the US, you would have rights and priveledges that Johnny Rag doesn't. Lastly, John is a curiousity, almost like looking at a siamese twin. He shouldn't exist, yet he does. How can a US kid get mixed up in this? Don't get me wrong, I have no sympathy, but it explains why he's not rotting in Cuba with his comrades.
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 9:27:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chairborne_Ranger: Jeez John, you've obviously never been a *target* of that same system. But, presumably, you're a gun owner. And, you live in California. So it's only a matter of time . . .
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I've had my fair share of run-ins with the law. I've done things that are blatantly illegal. BUT, I've always had a pretty fair trial. Can't say the same for some countries.
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