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Posted: 1/23/2002 8:19:04 PM EDT
I need to Rant, blow off steam whatever.... Since when do the schools that we send our children to, have the right to fingerprint our kids? Are they a criminal? Did they ask me? As soon as my child said they fingerprinted me today I hauled ass right over there and gave them a piece of my mind and picked up the prints. The schools reply...Its for the childs safety in case they get kidnapped. O sure when that happens every cop will be out dusting for prints until he/she is found right?? I ask "Is it the law"? School...."no". Now I'm not one to follow the rest of the herds of cattle. I pay attention to whats happening here in the US and not just go with the flow. All those fingerprints will go into databases so big brother will just have another leg up on us. I mean we have enough intrusion on our everyday lives. Cameras all over the place, internet packet sniffing, etc etc. When the gov fears its people we live in peace...when we fear the gov you know what will happen. Bottom line...My kids are in school to learn and nothing else. Steamed out Rick
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 8:22:15 PM EDT
What school district? I wonder if this is a state wide thing.....
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 8:27:11 PM EDT
I used to pick-up my two twin great-nieces for elementary school. One day, I noticed that they had black ink all over their hands. They told me that they had been fingerprinted. The school gave them the prints to take home for their parents to keep. That made much more sense than having the school keep the prints. If your child hadn't told you about the prints, they would have been useless, because you wouldn't have been able to tell the police about them. I can related to the hostility about having fingerprints taken. I had to have mine done in April when I applied for a concealed carry permit. I felt like a criminal. For some reason, being arrested and printed twice for DUI suspicion (no, I hadn't been drinking and I never have) didn't bother me as much.z
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 8:37:42 PM EDT
[b]insidious[/b]: [i]adjective[/i]; 1a: awaiting a chance to entrap, b: harmful but enticing. see also, [i]treacherous, dangerous, pernicious, seductive, subtle [/i]
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 8:40:40 PM EDT
Hm... I actually paid to haved this done to my kids. I recieved and ID card with thier pic, weight, hieght and yes a right thumb print. I know we live in a "they are out to get me" world, but I will not let my paronia keep me from having a record of my kids info..... then again I elected to have this done. my kids didnt just show up with dirty thumbs.. BTW they cleaned my kids fingers afterwards.. hmm maybe this is done alot more often and some parents just never know (cause they clean them afterwards...) [}:D]
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 8:41:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARs4EVER: Bottom line...My kids are in school to learn and nothing else.
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What are they learning? 1979 Nuclear accident at Three Mile Island, Pennsylvania. Russia invades Afghanistan. Nobel prize awarded to Mother Teresa. Sony launches the Walkman. Frank Rudy designs first air-cushioned running shoe, the Nike Tailwind.
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 9:00:45 PM EDT
Most school districts are doing that as purely an ID aid in the case of kidnapping, etc and the prints go home to the parents. It's a public service, and the parents are asked if its ok before the prints are taken. Guess your school district didn't think that one through before they acted. Exactly what database do you expect schools to enter kids prints into anyway? I know of no mechanism which would allow districts to provide them to any database......
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 9:28:32 PM EDT
I know of no mechanism which would allow districts to provide them to any database.
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Most school districts would probably keep them as long as the kid was enrolled (through high school graduation). After that, no telling where the records could end up, especially if some law enforcement agency realizes that they represent a significant percentage of the entire population. I see it as no less threatening than if they were collecting DNA swabs — there's just no way on knowing for sure that they won't end up in the wrong hands. Also, giving kids the message that fingerprinting is a good thing "for their protection" is NOT a good thing. If they asked before hand, and promised to send the prints home with the kid, I'd let it slide. However, in your case, sounds like the media (conservative talk radio?) needs to know about it.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 12:31:16 AM EDT
i cant beleive those gawd damn commie pinko socialist liberal teachers would do that F**King crap!!! i think you better move out of that liberal haven oh wait, your in free america TN ....sorry my mistake. the school must be doing it to protect your children. in the caliban they fingerprint kids in skool, but not for security purposes. it saves the cops time in the booking process when the kids are arrested later in life. [:D]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 3:17:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Green_Furniture: What school district? I wonder if this is a state wide thing.....
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They did it when I was in grade school in Memphis; bastards! R35
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 3:44:59 AM EDT
Many School Districts and PDs perform this kind of program. To the best of my knowledge, these fingerprints have never been collected for inclusion in any AUtomated Fingerprint Identification System. The National-level systems generally include persons arrested for a felony (and assigned an FBI number, which generally indicates prison time in a state or federal prison), persons who served in the military or who had a security clearance. There are other categories of people who's fingerprints are in this system (like LEOs), so I may be missing a few categories. State-level databases generally include anyone arrested at the state level for any offense carrying jail time, LEOs and Concealed carry holders. Depending on your state, many jobs that require state licensing require a fingerprint card, usually done by a law enforcement agency. We do them for $4. The last person I ran into who needed on was for a Realtor's License (seriously). Juveniles can't have their fingerprints kept on file in a criminal database unless they have been arrested for an offense that would have carried a jail sentence if they were an adult. Their records are maintained exclusively by a state-level law enforcement entity. Any local records maintained by a law enforcement agency(like comparison prints for a series of burglaries) have to be destroyed when the Juvenile becomes a legal Adult, with some minor exceptions generally concerning ongoin criminal investigations. Courtesy prints of a Juvenile, like the ones that seem to have been done here, can not be legally maintained with criminal records, unless your state has some screwier case law than the rest of us.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 3:48:31 AM EDT
What good is having fingerprints if the child is kidnapped? Are they planning to put the thumbprint on the side of a milk carton? Typical short-sighted do-gooder liberal lame-brained thinking. "Do it for the children."
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 4:05:27 AM EDT
I think some folks accidently took off their tin foil hat and the gubmint mind rays got 'em.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 4:25:21 AM EDT
I remember when they fingerprinted me back in school- i watchd them enter it into a huge database of suspected felons and evil people. Since then there has been a black van, a black helicopters and a black satellite tasked to follow me around fo life. one of the students refused to be fingerprinted and since then has won the lottery, cured aids, has an iq of 300 and gets all the babes. How do you suppose they identify the victims of the terrorist attack and plane crashes....putting tinfoil hat back on, guv brainwaves getting in...
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 5:06:49 AM EDT
Centauro97 What good will the fingerprints do? If God forbid your child’s corpse if found it can be used for identification, if there are no dental records. Also, if there is a suspect and no body, you never know that the child (victim) would have touched in the suspects car or residence. I don’t like the idea of the school keeping the fingerprints,or fingerprinting the child w/o the parents knowing. I believe that should be the parents responsibility to get the child fingerprinted if they desire (usually any PD. will gladly do this if you show up with your child) and the parents responsibility to retain the prints.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 5:50:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 5:57:48 AM EDT by mk1iii]
Yeah, go ahead and yuk it up about tin foil hats and such. It is real Big Brotherism/1984 no doubts about it. Same with Year book photo's. It did not start out that way but it is what it has become. Many times when a crime is committed year books are checked for i.d's if they suspect there are young people involved. Knowing what I know now I would prefer to not have been in any year books since entering H.S. or printed at all. Maybe I'm just crazy.[%|]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:32:28 AM EDT
Again, just because these fingerprints are not currently entered into a criminal database doesn't mean they wouldn't in the future. Most school districts keep student records for a long time — In some cases, a lifetime. If a set of fingerprints is part of these records, there's no reason why it couldn't be turned over to some law enforcement agency at some time in the future, as soon as it becomes politically acceptable to do so.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:33:09 AM EDT
Last time I had my fingerprints taken.(for my CCW), the deputy put me in the room with a few cops that were interogating a drunk guy who had about 7 stolen shotguns and rifles. It was kind of scary because the cops were cocking the guns and pointing them everywhere. The drunk dude was sitting on a couch while the police would turn their backs to him. Anyway, I got the feeling that I wasn't supposed to be there. I was happy to leave.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:40:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ARs4EVER: I need to Rant, blow off steam whatever.... Since when do the schools that we send our children to, have the right to fingerprint our kids? Are they a criminal? Did they ask me? .
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First off, you don't owe anyone any explanation for how you raise your children. Certainly not that school system.
Bottom line...My kids are in school to learn and nothing else Steamed out Rick
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If your kids are in the public school system to learn, you better go ahed and make application for a refund. The ONLY thing they are learning in that hell-hole is why to hate guns, that homosexuality is groovy, that right and wrong is based on what feels good, and that you as their parent are obsolete. Get them out. NOW. My $0.02. $0.01 adjusted for inflation.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:32:04 AM EDT
There's a difference between voluntarily having your kids fingreprinted and having it done without your consent. I won't get a CHL because I won't have my fingerprints taken--I won't let them treat me like a criminal when I am clearly not one. Fingerprinting is done to crooks, not citizens exercising their rights.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:37:07 AM EDT
They don't need your consent, when *your* kids are in school, they are the schools kids, look up the term "Loco Parentis". They can make any kind of decision for the kids that they want.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:44:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:01:14 AM EDT
I had my fingerprints taken when I was 18 for a security clearance. Since I don't plan on leaving any if I commit a crime, I don't sweat it.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:02:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 9:04:06 AM EDT by Lazyshooter]
trickshot has it right. Involuntary fingerprinting is for criminals...period. It's my understanding that a couple of states require a print to get a driver's license. Absolutely ridiculous!
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:21:23 AM EDT
Actually I think fingerprints are used more often to identify the dead body of a child than to help find the kid while still alive. I think it is better to have the PARENTS keep a set of the child's fingerprints, a current picture of the child, and teach the kid what to do if kidnapped then to have some prints on file that when needed may have "magically" disappeared. I am a diabetic and when I was in grade school my parents gave the nurses office orange juice in case I had low blood sugar (as recommended by the shcool). Within a few weeks I checked on it and it was "magically" gone. It's nice to see that my life was in such capable hands. It's not like they would allow me to keep any kind of food on me in case of an emergancy because of that stupid rule. Okay, enough personal bitching from me. I doubt that the fingerprints from the school would be gathered by the government unless the were going after a spicific child, but the school is still doing the following wrong. 1) They are doing something that is not their job. 2) What they are doing will not protect the children and I doubt will be helpful in finding them in case they are kidnapped. They are probably only attempting to make it look like they are doing something. 3) Schools can't be trusted to do anything right. 4) Let's say your child was kidnapped from school during some after school or summer activity when there is a minumim staff at the school and you wanted the fingerprints, but nobody there at the time knows where they are or has a key to the cabnet. I have known schools to not think ahead about things.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:27:51 AM EDT
Jarhead_22- do you have a newer TX license? if so then they have your thumbprint too. im pretty sure however that it isnt stored on the magnetic strip on the back. presnoally i just think its gross to stan in line with some of the crummiest people on earth and then have to put my thumb where theres has been! "Can I get a friggin WET NAP???" like u said, i dont plan on comitting any crimes, so i dont care too much. plus how much are gloves anyway? Hmmm i'll have to ask the juice on that one, OJ? well if anyone is too paranoid, you can always take molds of someone elses prints, make a latex replica of the pad and affix it to your thumb. its not like anyone watches those things too closely.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:32:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 9:36:39 AM EDT by JTR]
ARs4EVER. You def. did the right thing. Your childs fingerprints are not the bussiness of the school. IMO, nothing is other than his/her name and being tought REAL subjects (math, writing, etc. none of this MORAL VALUES SHEAT). The year I left my HI-s'cool, they (the school admins, principle, etc.) wanted to add fingerprints to the school ID cards!!!!! Luckly the county school board was made up of mostly good folk and put a stop to that the second they got wind of it. So, on an aside, you guys don't get fingerprinted when you buy a gun? Here in OR they take a set of prints EVERY TIME you purchase a firearm, and they are all kept on record along with a copy of the yellow form. (I disagree with this 10000000000000000000%. When was the last time you got fingerprinter to go to church, or everytime you wanted to speak freely?). I have 4-5 new fingerprints on file last year alone. . . . almost enough to make me want to steal guns, so I don't have to be fingerprinted. Hmm. . I could steal class III and post-may stuff too huh? -Wouldn't need a liscense for that. . . . P.S. for JBT's: I'M NOT GOING TO STEAL ANYTHING, I WAS JUST EXCERSICING MY RIGHT TO FREE SPEACH! TTYL, Justin EDIT: I guess technically, the're just thumbprints, not fingerprints. . ..
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:41:24 AM EDT
I am not going to bother reading everything ahead of me, but I would just like to say that it is dumb for you to protest the printing of your kid. If he gets kidnapped, wouldn't you like LE to have his prints? If there is a bad accident, and the body/dental stuff useless, wouldn't you like to have the prints just to know for sure? If your kid, later in life, is accused of a crime, or whatever, and his prints are the only way to prove his innocence (and he has "disappeared) wouldn't you like to have the prints to prove he is innocent? Why is it that people think that everything has to be a secret? I hate to tell you America, but wake up! If someone wants to find something out about you, they can. If someone wants to watch you while you sleep, they can. If someone wants to listen to your ever word, they can. Technology does it all in this day and age. Nothing is a secret. Wake up -- smell the coffee, and don't try to be Hoodini (sp).
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:41:50 AM EDT
New York does it also, except the parents are present and the prints are handed directly over to them. Seems very shady that they didn't inform parents or have them involved. My bet is the police performed the printing which is very intimidating for a kid, trust me, I KNOW. This is usually done after hours and is made voluntary. I would follow up on this in a PTA meeting and such, those prints should be in parent's hands.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 10:17:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By USMCsilver: I am not going to bother reading everything ahead of me, but I would just like to say that it is dumb for you to protest the printing of your kid. If he gets kidnapped, wouldn't you like LE to have his prints? If there is a bad accident, and the body/dental stuff useless, wouldn't you like to have the prints just to know for sure? If your kid, later in life, is accused of a crime, or whatever, and his prints are the only way to prove his innocence (and he has "disappeared) wouldn't you like to have the prints to prove he is innocent? Why is it that people think that everything has to be a secret? I hate to tell you America, but wake up! If someone wants to find something out about you, they can. If someone wants to watch you while you sleep, they can. If someone wants to listen to your ever word, they can. Technology does it all in this day and age. Nothing is a secret. Wake up -- smell the coffee, and don't try to be Hoodini (sp).
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I agree. But fingerprint cards can be lost or stolen. We need to do more like install computer chips in each body (hidden so they don't know where it is located.) This way we can track them 24 hours a day. If they are kidnapped, we can easily find them. Get a clue. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 11:09:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By USMCsilver: I am not going to bother reading everything ahead of me, but I would just like to say that it is dumb for you to protest the printing of your kid. If he gets kidnapped, wouldn't you like LE to have his prints? If there is a bad accident, and the body/dental stuff useless, wouldn't you like to have the prints just to know for sure? If your kid, later in life, is accused of a crime, or whatever, and his prints are the only way to prove his innocence (and he has "disappeared) wouldn't you like to have the prints to prove he is innocent? Why is it that people think that everything has to be a secret? I hate to tell you America, but wake up! If someone wants to find something out about you, they can. If someone wants to watch you while you sleep, they can. If someone wants to listen to your ever word, they can. Technology does it all in this day and age. Nothing is a secret. Wake up -- smell the coffee, and don't try to be Hoodini (sp).
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UMSC, your apathy make me sick. AR, you did the right thing standing up for yourself and family This has nothing to do with black helicopters or tin foil hats, and has everything to do with personal freedom and being secure in your personal affairs. R/K
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 12:49:51 PM EDT
I got fingerprinted when I was in Boy Scouts... for the Merit Badge, and I don't think the police kept them. BTW, in Illinois, you cannot enroll your child in kindergarted without first submitting the childs SSN to the school! Blackie
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 1:20:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By natez: Many School Districts and PDs perform this kind of program. To the best of my knowledge, these fingerprints have never been collected for inclusion in any AUtomated Fingerprint Identification System. The National-level systems generally include persons arrested for a felony (and assigned an FBI number, which generally indicates prison time in a state or federal prison), persons who served in the military or who had a security clearance. There are other categories of people who's fingerprints are in this system (like LEOs), so I may be missing a few categories. State-level databases generally include anyone arrested at the state level for any offense carrying jail time, LEOs and Concealed carry holders. Depending on your state, many jobs that require state licensing require a fingerprint card, usually done by a law enforcement agency. We do them for $4. The last person I ran into who needed on was for a Realtor's License (seriously). Juveniles can't have their fingerprints kept on file in a criminal database unless they have been arrested for an offense that would have carried a jail sentence if they were an adult. Their records are maintained exclusively by a state-level law enforcement entity. Any local records maintained by a law enforcement agency(like comparison prints for a series of burglaries) have to be destroyed when the Juvenile becomes a legal Adult, with some minor exceptions generally concerning ongoin criminal investigations. Courtesy prints of a Juvenile, like the ones that seem to have been done here, can not be legally maintained with criminal records, unless your state has some screwier case law than the rest of us.
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The only time I was ever fingerprinted was when I was in elementary school. When I was 12 I was accused of a crime and the police said that "my" fingerprints were found in the reidence of this person. Apparently an acquaintance in my neighborhood had his apartment broken into. I had been to his apartment a few times and my fingerprints were in the place. I was never arrested for the break in (probably because I didn't do it), but the fact that the police had my fingerprints on file to make a comparison to those they lifted from this guy's apartment says something. I was fingerprinted when 7 or 8 by the Fairfax County Police Department as part of the "make kids safe" bullshit. According to a friend of mine who is a 1SGT. with the State Police the FCPD has been getting heat from the VSP for logging all fingerprints collected, whether from criminal arrests or not, into the VCIN (Virginia Criminal Information Network), which is accessible to any state law enforcement agency and to federal and out-of-state agencies for a fee. Parents who don't want their children fingerprinted aren't tin-foil-beanie wearers. They have a legitimate concern.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 1:54:14 PM EDT
Thanks for all the comments. All I want is to be informed. I put my trust in the school for 8 hours a day to do the right thing. When then do something out or the ordinary thats when I step in. Its about having the choice and not being forced. I thought we are all free in the good old USA. Rick
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