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Posted: 1/23/2002 6:16:58 PM EDT
I mean this as a serious question. It seems almost everyone nowadays is against it but I almost never hear anyone clearly state what it is. Is it stopping a pickup truck full of thirty mexicans heading north from the US/Mexican border because they may be illegals? Is it pulling over three teen-age-looking black men driving a $50,000 car at 2:00am in a crime-ridden part of town? Is it covering your wallet (or ccw as the case may be) as you walk down the street next to a herd of gangbanger-looking thug-types? Is this racial profiling? I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'm just at a bit of a loss as to what racial profiling really is.
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 6:21:44 PM EDT
Yes Yes Yes Yes It is also, paying more attention to non-citizen young arab men attempting to board an airplane than to an old white woman from Alabama with no baggage.
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 6:23:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 6:26:59 PM EDT
It's the eficient use of avaialble technology to combat crime!
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 6:30:22 PM EDT
"No slam bam soul brotha, Too boo koo too boo koo...!" is racial profiling.[BD]
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 7:04:22 PM EDT
It means if the shoe fits, book em Dano
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 7:23:10 PM EDT
Its just damn good police work! Keving67
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 8:43:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2002 8:44:53 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By keving67: Its just damn good police work! Keving67
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That's what I thought. So what's the problem? Even Jesse Jackass once said he feels fear when he hears footsteps behind him on the street at night, but is relieved if it ends up being a white person rather than young black man.
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 8:57:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: You have the right idea. It means targeting groups of people based upon their race, among other factors, without having any specific target or goal. For example, black men, especially young black men, are often pulled over for no other reason than they are driving a nice car. Though this occasionally happens with white men, it is far, far more likely to happen to blacks. Generally, cops will be looking for weapons, drugs, or stolen vehicles, and will pull over anyone who matches their "profile" regardless of whether or not any infractions were witnessed. There are lots of other examples, but you get the idea. -Troy
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Funny thing is, you don't know the race of the driver of the car you're pulling over at least 95% of the time until you get up to the drivers window. So much for profiling.
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 9:15:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 11:58:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 2:16:34 AM EDT
You can profile based on age, style of dress, gender, ethnicity and other prejudices as well.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 4:04:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By keving67: Its just damn good police work! Keving67
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That's what I thought. So what's the problem? Even Jesse Jackass once said he feels fear when he hears footsteps behind him on the street at night, but is relieved if it ends up being a white person rather than young black man.
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It depends on who`s crying it and why....sometimes.....there is often a fine line between profiling and probable cause.....as in your example of the mexicans.....there may be justification of profiling...if the local pd continues stopping young blacks in a notheastern suburb...habitually over time.....where it might not apply the same way in a mid-class southern town.....depends on how thier treated I guess?
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 4:11:16 AM EDT
There's profiling and there's racial profiling. When the FBI ( or whoever) "develops a profile" of a guy that committed a praticular crime or say someone arrested "fits the profile" thats what Hannity called "statistical profiling". DWB is just racial profiling. Color and nothing else. Norm in NJ, known for its institutionalized racial profiling
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 5:12:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 5:16:27 AM EDT
Racial profiling would be: A lowrider Honda Civic with waaaayyyyy to loud music and dark tint. Doesn't matter who is driving it is getting pulled over. [beer] P.S. I hate those damn NOPI bastards!!
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 5:53:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:06:54 AM EDT
I don't feel Profiling is wrong, wrong, wrong. Based on FBI crime stats, don't most crimes like murdering while black, drive by shooting while black, robbing while black, beating the fuck out of someone while black have been found to be committed disproportionately by blacks in America. Correct me if I am wrong. It's easy to criticize law enforcement sitting in front of a computer screen, in a safe part of town. Police in charge of public safety can do only so much to fight crime, superman eyes don't come with the badge. Police see first hand the brutal handiwork of violent criminals everyday. You doves out their should visit a few bloody crimes scenes and a morgue, and see what crime actually looks like for yourselves, and then tell me how wrong it is. You Democrats just don't get it. If they feel I fit the description of a perp, then I will be stopped too. Police officers keep up the ((((good common sense))) police work. You have my full support.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:15:23 AM EDT
I am with Troy 100%.......This is America the 21st century, stop that BS. ...............But then I am pro law enforcement, and hated crimes for I was a victim once.........If it looks like a duck and quack like a duck......it is probably a duck. I hate to say that.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:32:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Am-O-Tramp: I don't feel Profiling is wrong, wrong, wrong. Based on FBI crime stats, don't most crimes like murdering while black, drive by shooting while black, robbing while black, beating the fuck out of someone while black have been found to be committed disproportionately by blacks in America. Correct me if I am wrong.
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[b]To some extent[/b] profiling based [b]partly[/b], not [b]solely[/b] on the basis of race and gender [b]may[/b] be permissible. As some people have pointed out, elderly women (of all races) don't tend to commit crimes. But acting upon race and gender and using them as the only reasons to indiscriminately stop people and search them for evidence of crimes that [b]there is no specific evidence that they have committed[/b] is contrary to everything that the Republic stands for. That is what really upsets people. See Troy's post above about being stopped and searched for no reason at all.
Police officers keep up the ((((good common sense))) police work. You have my full support.
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I assume that you are a man. Since men commit nearly all violent crime, perhaps you would not mind being stopped and searched by the police anywhere you went. In fact you should show your full support by having them search your house too.
"Oppressed and dispirited people neither possess arms nor know how to use them" Unknown Author
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It is interesting that you would use this as your sig line. Perhaps the most classic use of profiling is by the NYPD in the poorer areas of New York City like Harlem and the Bronx. As you are undoubtedly aware, you require a permit to carry a handgun in New York, and in NYC, it is almost impossible for any honest person to get such a permit. NYPD has a unit called the Gun Control unit (or a similar name), and the practice of this unit has been to "get guns off the street" in the poorer parts of the city as follows: 1) See black male. 2) Stop black male (Freeze! Police!) 3) Frisk and search black male for a gun (which is illegal only because the city says so). 4) Move on. Note the lack of warrants or any real consent on the part of the black male. He is treated like a slave. If a gun is discovered, he will be hauled off to prison, even if he was just carrying it for his own protection. In some ways, there is a correlation between gun control (which I assume you are opposed to) and the oppressed and dispirited people you seem to be concerned about. This is not intended to be a flame. But I think that if you were prejudged, stopped and harassed by the criminal justice just because of your personal attributes that [b]you could not change[/b], you would feel different.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:50:17 AM EDT
I stand by my post. I don't have all day to debate every situation until a favorable counter point can be made. Democrats always use this ploy to make victims out to be the bad guy. It ain't gonna work with me. When the crime stops, the profiling will stop. When Jesse feels safe, I will feel safe.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 7:34:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 7:40:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 7:44:47 AM EDT by ckapsl]
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: ... I almost never hear anyone clearly state what it is.
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Racial profiling generally means the use of race or color, [b]by police[/b], to identify and [b]stop or search[/b] individuals as potential criminals without [b]any specific reasons to suspect that they are actually criminals[/b]. While other types of behavior might be called profiling, they really are not.
Is it stopping a pickup truck full of thirty mexicans heading north from the US/Mexican border because they may be illegals?
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Possibly. In this case, they are close to and heading away from the Mexican border, which makes their ethnicity [b]one of the factors[/b], not the [b]only factor[/b]. Legally speaking, there is a big difference, and this would probably hold up in court.
Is it pulling over three teen-age-looking black men driving a $50,000 car at 2:00am in a crime-ridden part of town?
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Absolutely. This is one of the most indefensible. None of the behaviours described above, being black, being three black men in a group, driving a $50,000 car, at 2:00 a.m., driving in a crime-ridden part of town, are individually or in the aggregate, a crime by any stretch of the law. As long as they are obeying the rules of the road, the police have no business stopping them. If white were substituted for black in the above sentence, there would rightfully be an uproar. The police do not have the power to determine what behavior is lawful or not; we the people retain that power.
Is it covering your wallet (or ccw as the case may be) as you walk down the street next to a herd of gangbanger-looking thug-types?
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You are not a police officer, and your covering your own wallet does not constitute any interference with said characters. You are minding your own business and trusting your own intuition in looking out for your own safety. More power to you. All of us have done this at some point or another in our lives.
Is this racial profiling? I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'm just at a bit of a loss as to what racial profiling really is.
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It is a good question, and I think a good discussion has resulted. I don't think that the use of race or color in the decision-making process of police officers should always be ruled out, as long as race is used [b]in conjuction[/b] with other factors of behavior that are [b]actually suspicious[/b]. On the other hand, singling out people for attention only because of their race or color is wrong and will surely sour the relationship between the police officers and the citizens that they have sworn to protect.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:52:10 AM EDT
Hey Paul, how in the fuck could someone tell a serial killer or a child molester from anyone else just by driving down the road. Unless of course he fit a (((profile or description.))) And I don't know if your stats take into account the difference in population either. If the police can get those white bastards by profiling or any other method I don't care. It's not a color thing with me, it's a becoming a victim thing. You read the papers? Criminals today are able to ply their trade without fear of being caught or getting punished proportionally for their crimes because of the feely touchy loving hearts of the enlightened amongst us. Turn on your TV news tonight and come back with that criminal enabling bullshit your spewing.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:57:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 8:58:11 AM EDT by BusMaster007]
Let's see. A Red-Headed White-Boy in a musclecar is cruising through the Central District. He gets pulled over by the nice police officer who says: "What are YOU doin' in this neighborhood, boy?" Would [i]that[/i] be racial profiling? [;D]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:59:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Am-O-Tramp: Criminals today are able to ply their trade without fear of being caught or getting punished proportionally for their crimes because of the feely touchy loving hearts of the enlightened amongst us. Turn on your TV news tonight and come back with that criminal enabling bullshit your spewing.
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Am-O-Tramp, maybe you're watching too much TV news.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:03:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BusMaster007: Let's see. A Red-Headed White-Boy in a musclecar is cruising through the Central District. He gets pulled over by the nice police officer who says: "What are YOU doin' in this neighborhood, boy?" Would [i]that[/i] be racial profiling? [;D]
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What ethnicity is the cop?.........[spank]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:23:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Am-O-Tramp: Criminals today are able to ply their trade without fear of being caught or getting punished proportionally for their crimes because of the feely touchy loving hearts of the enlightened amongst us. Turn on your TV news tonight and come back with that criminal enabling bullshit your spewing.
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Ahhh... TV News. The only rule about crime reporting on TV news is.... If it bleeds, it leads. TV News' crime reporting is one of the [b]major reasons[/b] why so many people are scared of guns and associate guns with only crime and criminals. When was the last time TV News told you about the use of a gun for lawful self-defense? Considering that this use happens about 2.5 million times a year, you'd think they'd tell you about them a lot more often.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:27:16 AM EDT
I'll tell you all you need to know about racial profiling. If you want a tart apple do you pick a red one or a green one? A green one!? WHY?! Because it happens to be green or because you know, through your life's experiences, that a green apple is most likely tart...? You'd be a fool to ingnore what you have learned throughout your entire life.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:30:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BusMaster007: A Red-Headed White-Boy in a musclecar is cruising through the Central District. He gets pulled over by the nice police officer who says: "What are YOU doin' in this neighborhood, boy?" Would [i]that[/i] be racial profiling? [;D]
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Jokes apart, it would. And it would be just as wrong. If there is no reason to suspect white-boy of a specific crime, there is no reason to [b]stop[/b] him. Certainly, being in "this" neighborhood is really his own business. That is the way it should be in a republic of free citizens. The police exist to protect citizens, not to tell them where they should or should not be. Now if the cop wants to discreetly keep an eye on white-boy, that is one thing, but [b]stopping him[/b] without probable cause is another thing entirely.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:34:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FiveO: I'll tell you all you need to know about racial profiling. If you want a tart apple do you pick a red one or a green one? A green one!? WHY?! Because it happens to be green or because you know, through your life's experiences, that a green apple is most likely tart...? You'd be a fool to ingnore what you have learned throughout your entire life.
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You are comparing apples and oranges. Sorry, I couldn't resist [}:D]. If you, as a private citizen, use your own life's experiences to avoid interaction with certain groups of people, that is your own business. But you don't have the right to use a uniform and the power of the state to [b]stop or search[/b] other people who are minding their own business and not visibly committing or appearing to be committing any crime.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 11:58:55 AM EDT
As our State Police said...blacks sell crack, bikers sell meth, so I guess jews own the banks, white guys drink beer and really cute blondes with long legs and short skirts don't get tickets
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 12:12:32 PM EDT
Profiling is real. One afternoon on my off day I was riding my Harley and I managed to take a few wrong turns and ended up in the worst part of Atlanta. Granted I felt very uncomfortable about riding through a neighborhood on a motorcycle worth more than any 2 houses down there combined. I was telling a friend of mine about this lovely trip, and he told me not worry about it. He is a Zone One APD seargent and was kind enough to let me know I was in no danger because every undercover guy in the zone would be watching me because a white guy on a Harley down there is either lost or buying drugs. That made me feel much better![;)] [beer]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 12:49:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HighlandMac: Profiling is real. One afternoon on my off day I was riding my Harley and I managed to take a few wrong turns and ended up in the worst part of Atlanta. Granted I felt very uncomfortable about riding through a neighborhood on a motorcycle worth more than any 2 houses down there combined. I was telling a friend of mine about this lovely trip, and he told me not worry about it. He is a Zone One APD seargent and was kind enough to let me know I was in no danger because every undercover guy in the zone would be watching me because a white guy on a Harley down there is either lost or buying drugs. That made me feel much better![;)] [beer]
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So you were lost?[BD]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 2:12:45 PM EDT
What is "racial profiling ?" The answer must be that individuals are singled-out because of their race and because of their race alone. Thankfully, as to whether this is good or bad wasn't the question.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 5:23:50 PM EDT
Profiling isn’t so bad as long as it’s someone else being profiled. I doubt any of its defenders here would support profiling of gun owners.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:46:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 199: Profiling isn’t so bad as long as it’s someone else being profiled. I doubt any of its defenders here would support profiling of gun owners.
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This is already starting to happen, albeit in small amounts. During the Y2K scare, the FBI released a report called Project Meggido, which, among other things, suggested that gun owners, people with RKBA bumper stickers, people carrying copies of the Constitution (!) and others like them were "more likely" to be capable of domestic insurrection and violence. In some of the most anti-gun states, being a (suspected) gun owner probably ranks way up with being black.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:53:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:06:24 PM EDT
Once, only once in my life was I knowingly subjected to profiling - not racial profiling but profiling. Turns out I was asked to step out of line and answer some questions because I was (1) Young and (2) Had on sunglasses. How do I know ? Because I got in their face (literally) and made them tell me. Only one was a US Marshall the other was an air line employee. I reacted badly; very badly.
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