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Posted: 1/23/2002 7:32:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 5:50:54 AM EDT by the_survivalist]
Hello, I am an American freedom activist!, and I make this decree... ...that I will no longer be a subject. This is my vow. This is my new creed. From this day forward, I will not be subject to the unconstitutional laws of the United States government. This government is no longer representative of the people, therefore it is an illegitimate government. I will not fill out a form 4473. I will not submit to the "Instant Checks". I will not pay illegal taxes. I will renounce my social security number. I will not submit to illegal searches and seizures. I will own (and carry) a pistol witch I will not have registered. I will own an "assault weapon", witch will be an unregistered automatic, manufactured on a clearly post-ban receiver, with pre-ban parts. (as this ban and all other laws like it are illegal) I will buy post-ban magazines. I will not pay a yearly rent for property witch I "own" to the us govt.. I will not be made defenseless. I will be armed with the tools of freedom at all times. [50] I will say exactly what I want to say without fear of reprisal.[soapbox] I will build a home on my property without a permit. I will hunt on my property for the food on my table, without a permit. I will not hide, but will move freely without fear. [peep] I will if the desire arrives smoke "weed". (not that it ever will) I will consume alcohol though I will not drive after doing so, for I am a responsible citizen. I will vote for the candidate whom best represents my interests. I will find like minded individuals with whom to train for the defense of my land, home, and country. [marines] I will remit all forms of government ID if I so choose. I will barter with real money and not the fiat currency of the Federal Reserve. I will join the US military, but will refuse to serve under a foreign commander, and will refuse to serve on foreign soil, or to obey unconstitutional orders.[whacko] I will not support the murder of unborn children, but will espouse the responsible decisions to be made. I will accept that the enemy (the US govt.) will have my name on a hit list for this document.. I am a citizen of the United States of America, and these are my rights, as granted by god. No government has the right to take these rights from me. [%|] [BD] pretty much sums it up for me.
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 12:28:36 PM EDT
this is just a little something i typed up in my spare time. as mentioned before, you couldn't do half of this without the jbt bustin down yore door. but it is the principal of the thing that matters. thanks for the good wishes, but i hopefully wont need it, if i was actually submitting this i would put my name address and phone # on it and distribute it to alll of the mews agencies i could find, and post it on the inet. maby the day will come when i will sighn this document but i am more valuable to the movement alive and free, than dead, and dead is how i would be, as i wouldn.t go without a fight. and i would like to see more than just my signiture on this document when it happens, this way i would not have died alone or in vein... ------------------
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 12:37:17 PM EDT
First of all I and bout 99.9% of others know you're just joking. I and others realize you're too smart to deliver yourself unto your......mother-in-law. Now for your sake delete this post or post some of those little smiling suckers so's the other .1% will know you're joking too. Delete be better. [:D] [:D] [:D]
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 12:40:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2002 12:42:13 PM EDT by netrig]
Let's go brother I'm with you on almost all of the above after all there is still freedom of speech right ? BTW whats a form 4473 ?
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 12:53:29 PM EDT
Good Luck! Think hard and long about this because you will end up in jail or dead. You are 100% correct in your belief. I would rather see you on the street and in the ballot box rather than setting behind bars or 6' under. We need people with your attitudes and beliefs to fight with us through legal channels, and if all else fails pick up a rifle.
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 1:04:50 PM EDT
So, you don't use money *excuse me* [b]"the fiat currency of the Federal Reserve"[/b]? You only barter, huh? How's that working out for you, so far? [b]"I will say exactly what I want to say without fear of reprisal"[/b] If you don't fear reprisal, you should. A little fear will keep you free and alive.
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 1:14:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2002 1:15:15 PM EDT by 5subslr5]
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: First of all I and bout 99.9% of others know you're just joking. I and others realize you're too smart to deliver yourself unto your......mother-in-law. Now for your sake delete this post or post some of those little smiling suckers so's the other .1% will know you're joking too. Delete be better. [:D] [:D] [:D]
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(Sorry but I must have taken the wrong approach above.) What maybe I should have said is "once you get settled send me the address of the prison." I'm good for one newspaper subscription. (please notice I did not say "good for one 'magazine' sub.........") [:D] [smoke]
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 1:34:39 PM EDT
Please add this one: I will learn to spell "which". Wouldn't want people to think you're a Wiccan, would you? [:D] Seriously, where does this kind of stuff come from? What horrible things have you been subjected to that have made you believe in the total rejection of life as most of us know it? I just don't get it. I hate to say it, but life has been pretty good to me and most of people I know. This is the best country in THE WHOLE WORLD, last I checked. Hell, when asked, nobody here could come up with a better one (except Thailand, and that was just wierd... [:)] ). Please try and explain it to me, I really want to know. If you could do it without alot of rhetoric, and just keep it simple, I'd appreciate that, too. Well?
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 3:00:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2002 3:02:26 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: So, you don't use money...
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Along the same lines... [b] I will not use water supplied by Gov't-regulated water-treatment plants, nor will I use Gov't-built roads, highways or thoroughfares because they are NOT my private property. Having established myself as an "enemy" of the US Gov't, I will automatically renounce my citizenship and all Constitutional protections provided thereof. I shall change my name to "Nancy" and will enjoy my stay in Federal Prison along with my new bunk[u]mate[/u], Mike Tyson.[/b][BD]
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 3:09:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2002 3:10:49 PM EDT by Major-Murphy]
[b]Hello, I am an American freedom activist!, and I make this decree... [whacko] ...that I will no longer be a subject. [whacko] This is my vow. This is my new creed. From this day forward, I will not be subject to the Government's evil mind control rays, so... I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. I will not remove my tin-foil hat. ...ever.[/b] [whacko]
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 3:13:15 PM EDT
"Hi there, boys and girls, I'm Jimmy Carl Black, and I'm the Indian of the group"....[:E] [bounce] [;D] [%|] [@:D] [8D]
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 3:13:55 PM EDT
C'mon guys, give the guy a chance to explain hisself. I really want to know why he thinks this way. Really, really! He's not alone, ya now. They're out there... Bonus question: Who said, "Really, really!"
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 4:13:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: ..... I really want to know why he thinks this way. Really, really!
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Really ? REALLY ?? [:D]
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 6:13:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2002 6:18:28 PM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
Originally Posted By the_survivalist: Hello, I am an American freedom activist!, and I make this decree...
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don't not make the T-F-B out of tin-foil that you've cooked a potato in, totally ineffective.
...that I will no longer be a subject. This is my vow. This is my new creed.
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quick someone get a map of the universe, prove to this guy there is no center, so therefore he can't be it.
From this day forward, I will not be subject to the unconstitutional laws of the United States government. This government is no longer representative of the people, therefore it is an illegitimate government.
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Nice that you've come to that conclusion all by yourself. FYI Treason is the only crime listed in the Constitution.
I will not fill out a form 4473. I will not submit to the "Instant Checks".
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Ok, then just buy from private citizens.
I will not pay illegal taxes. I will renounce my social security number. I will not submit to illegal searches and seizures.
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Ok, then stay off the roads and bridges the rest of us payed for, don't try to sue anyone, we pay for the courts too. Don't expect retriment, disability, or unemployment benefits either. Since you have renounced your Citizenship the Constitution doesn't apply to you. Even so you can be legally searched and siezed
I will own (and carry) a pistol witch I will not have registered.
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What exactly is a "pistol witch"?
I will own an "assault weapon", witch will be an unregistered automatic, manufactured on a clearly post-ban receiver, with pre-ban parts. (as this ban and all other laws like it are illegal)
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?
I will buy post-ban magazines.
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And so?
I will not pay a yearly rent for property witch I "own" to the us govt..
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Then don't send you kids to school, or call the police or fire depts. if you get in a jam. Don't patent any inventions or ideas. Don't expect the food or medicines you use to be safe.
I will not be made defenseless. I will be armed with the tools of freedom at all times.
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Defenseless is a relative term, if you need a gun to feel like you aren't defenseless you have some serious issues.
I will say exactly what I want to say without fear of reprisal.
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Oh really what ya gonna do??[flame]
I will build a home on my property without a permit.
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And when you electrocute yourself don't call an ambulance, that you aren't willing to pay for. Don't whine when it can't be insured or catches on fire.
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 6:15:39 PM EDT
Original Ramblings by the_Survivalist:
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I will hunt on my property for the food on my table, without a permit.
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Who says it your property Mr Anti-government?? Surely you don't expect others to consider that deed you have as binding when you are so ready to throw out the other things government says?
I will not hide, but will move freely without fear.
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Do it without getting on any roads, or trains, or planes because the goverment paid directly to build some of those and subsidized the rest, you say you don't wanna pay for those services so keep your free loading butt off them.
I will if the desire arrives smoke "weed". (not that it ever will) I will consume alcohol though I will not drive after doing so, for I am a responsible citizen. I will vote for the candidate whom best represents my interests.
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No you don;t get to vote for people who decide how to spend the publics money since you don't want to contribute to the public good.
I will find like minded individuals with whom to train for the defense of my land, home, and country. I will remit all forms of government ID if I so choose. I will barter with real money and not the fiat currency of the Federal Reserve. I will join the US military, but will refuse to serve under a foreign commander, and will refuse to serve on foreign soil, or to obey unconstitutional orders.
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Woo Hoo, deep breaths, O2 good, Unconstitutional orders can not be obeyed.
I will not support the murder of unborn children, but will espouse the responsible decisions to be made.
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Than don't have an abortion, or do anything to get anybody preganant.
I will accept that the enemy (the US govt.) will have my name on a hit list for this document..
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Just like an elephant cares about a fly, you are not that important or noteworhty.
I am a citizen of the United States of America, and these are my rights, as granted by god. No government has the right to take these rights from me.
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With Rights come Responsibility.
pretty much sums it up for me.
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From one man who thinks he is more important than anyone else.................Lighten up Francis.[stick]
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 6:23:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2002 6:26:06 PM EDT by NSFJojo]
Uh, don't most of us do that stuff anyway? Everyone should know there's no way to rule over innocent men. The only way to rule over men is to pass enough laws to make sure everyone is a criminal eventually. Guilty people make easy subjects. Just ignore the laws that are deemed "For the good of the public" etc. Just be responsible, quietly pay your taxes and enjoy life. If they come for you, all the better, a man only truly values what he is willing to die for. [):)] NSF
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 6:23:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By DScott: ..... I really want to know why he thinks this way. Really, really!
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Really ? REALLY ?? [:D]
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Absolutely! Normally, people who believe these things are not exactly open to discussion, but I think the_survivalist is willing to share his thoughts... unless everybody keeps calling him a kook, then he'd have to really have balls to say what he's thinking here.
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 6:24:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2002 6:28:30 PM EDT by LTVN68]
Major-Murphy and Oly-M4gery, a quote from Samuel Adams for you both: "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your consul, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams I understand how you feel "The Survivalist" and so would Samuel Adams and Patrick Henry
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 6:39:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2002 6:41:14 PM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
LTVN-68, I am not arguing that the government should have more power or the government is some happy coffee clutch looking out for us. But the Constitution, as ratified by the Founding Fathers, not only lists some of the Liberties that they felt all men had, it sets up the Government. My point here is that the FF's, though they had just overthrown an unjust government, set up a system of government. The were in favor of Liberty, but not anarchy. Many of them went on to work in government. I just get a little tired of people that want to take the freedoms that are listed in the Constitution, but forget there are responsibilities as well. (fair weather patriots/soldiers, is a term that comes to mind) I think some of the FF's would knock people on their asses, if the FF's heard them talking about trying to have their Liberty but shirking their responsibilities. What was it they said? "Taxation without represntation is not fair"....... They didn't say all taxes are unfair............
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 8:02:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LTVN68: Major-Murphy and Oly-M4gery, a quote from Samuel Adams for you both: "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your consul, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams I understand how you feel "The Survivalist" and so would Samuel Adams and Patrick Henry
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Can you be more specific in your thoughts? What is the source of your concerns?
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 11:32:23 PM EDT
Pretty funny that most of those affirmations are illegal nowadays. Scary, actually. As late as the 1950s, an American could breathe free (okay, you had to be white and middle class, but at least *someone* was free). Then again, I do know of a couple of people who have pretty much told Uncle Sugar to fuck off. Neither of the guys I'm thinking of has an SSN, or has ever paid income taxes, and yes, they mostly barter for necessities or use cash. Neither guy is what I would call "prosperous" but there is a cost and a benefit to everything. I don't think either one is a gun owner, but I could be wrong about that. They're more like hippies who didn't buy into Marxism. I recommend civil disobedience, but better still, I recommend pointing out the errors in leftist thought. I figure we're going to have to actually live through some kind of heavy repression before things get straightened out. We have communism-lite right now--look how heavily we are taxed and how little the Constitution means, especially when it comes to things like property rights. Voting and democracy are just window dressing designed to make people feel like they are in control of the government. We don't control jack shit and it's about time we stopped pretending we do. Is Bush really any better for America in the long run? I doubt it. When he gets around to repealing a ton of laws and restructuring Social Security, the IRS, DEA, ATF and FBI, I might change my tune. Instead, we get more defense spending and more government intrusion into every aspect of our lives. Great!
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 4:29:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 4:50:04 AM EDT by Major-Murphy]
Originally Posted By LTVN68: Major-Murphy and Oly-M4gery, a quote from Samuel Adams for you both: "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your consul, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams I understand how you feel "The Survivalist" and so would Samuel Adams and Patrick Henry
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LTVN68, Perhaps LT, just perhaps, Oly-M4gery and I merely recognize that the above "vow" or "decree" is an example of one talking out of one's ass. The fact that it is on an Internet Message Board proves this, for to be HERE, on the net, the_survivalist must have surely violated AT LEAST a half dozen of his little pledges. IF, however, you feel that in the fight against tyranny, it is important for you to ally youself with those who talk alot of shit, without thinking.... ....than you are judged by the company you keep. [b]SOME[/b] of you Libertarians are really just BITTER, anti-social, shut-ins, who wish for anarchy. You pretend that you LOVE your country, while at the same time wishing for her demise. For you to quote Patrick Henry THEREBY QUESTIONING OUR PATRIOTISM, as a means to insult those of us who are INTELLIGENT enough to see the_survivalist's "decree" for what it really is.... ...Like I said you are the company you keep.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 5:35:01 AM EDT
Does anybody here remember the good old days, When being a Survivalist meant that you were generaly worried about natural disasters and maybe nuclear war. You took EMT and Civil Defence classes and thought about what you could do to help and protect your loved ones and community in the event of disaster, natural or man made. Unlike the current crop of Anti Goverment nut jobs who would see this country turned into Lebanon, Complete with waring religious and racial factions. They want to turn the america I grew up in into a balkanized free fire zone, seeing disaster and suffering as an opportunity to seize power and set up there own twisted Taliban style goverment. How did we let these thinly veiled revolutionary terrorist wanna be's take over the survivalist movement? Was it because movies and the media portrayed all American Citizens who were worried, That there was alot that could go wrong, as Camo clad mad men, eagerly stroking there assualt weapons, praying for a chance to begin hanging liberals from the street light posts? This guy that calls himself a survivalist dirties the very name of the survalist movement. He's not a survivalist. He is a traitor that dreams and plans for the destruction of his country. he is in fact no better than Jihad Johnny Walker the American Taliban. After 9-11 I'm just about tired of hearing them try to interpet the Constitution into a national suicide pact. So I'm just fed up enough to call him what he is. Our goverment may not be perfect, but our little Manifesto writing friend would be down in the basement of police headquarters, being beat with a rubber hose and hung by his feet in many of the countries on this planet for writing that stuff. That "This is my creed" stuff sounds alot like something out of that poem McVeigh read, right before they shoved the needle in.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 5:43:22 AM EDT
People who are unhappy with their lives often hope for a disaster, so that EVERYONE can be brought down to the level of their misery. They feel that THEN, they would have thoe opportunity to use all the "survival" skills that they learned on the Internet, to rise above. Unfortunately, a miserable loser in this world, would likely be the same in a Mutant-filled-SHTF-UN-invasion-disaster-fantasy-world, too.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 5:44:50 AM EDT
well, this post was to represent to the people on this board an others that our rights which (sorry about that) only a few years ago were taken for granted, have now been degraded to absolutely nothing. 50 years ago if someone said they would do this they had the option to go someplace (usually easily and close by) whare they could do so leagally. not now.... because of the gradual decline of these rights my fictitiouse "declaration" immediately peggs me as an nut case. [%|] and all of a sudden i am an extremist. just trying to sat to all, the end is comeing, and if we dont fight now we will surely fail. i wouldn't sighn this document right now, and noone else here would either. am i right?? yes?? i thaught so, then the republic is truely lost. if a law is ignored on a large enough scale it becomes unenforceable. untill that scale is met, WE WILL LOSE EVERY TIME. thanks for yore responces the_survivalist [USA]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:10:20 AM EDT
I'm just floored by the twisted logic of this. How on earth does the gradual erosion of you so called rights, have anything to do with me pegging you as a Loony Toon? You say your little manifesto is fiction? Gee sounded like you were testing the waters here on AR-15 dot com to me. Of course I belive you when you say you were just kidding, I'm sure you got your political veiws from a cursory glance thru the Turner Diaries, But this was all just a little jokey. Right, Oh I'm sure that whole Manifesto thing was just a little social experiment, and that you do not really belive all that Anti goverment trash. I belive you.....really.....sure.....Honest
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:23:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 6:27:48 AM EDT by the_survivalist]
Originally Posted By DScott: Absolutely! Normally, people who believe these things are not exactly open to discussion, but I think the_survivalist is willing to share his thoughts... unless everybody keeps calling him a kook, then he'd have to really have balls to say what he's thinking here.
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what i am thinking is that if a new declaration of independence becomes necessarry, most of the people on this board would sit back in there lay-z-boy's and thank god someone else is doing something. from what ive seen here this is the case. someone is aparently has enough "balls" to say whats on his mind and he is instantly condemned by the sheeple. perhapse there are more sheeple on this board than we all like to think. no, i do not really have an unregistered pistol, or any pistol at that. no, i do not have an automatic assault weapon. but if i did, i wouldn't be advertizeing it, or declareing that i will have one. i would declare that i have one and will ues it if necessarry. but i dont so i cant, can i? yes this "manifesto" is fictitiouse, i am not suicidal. just trying to bring some good debate, or maby contreversy to this board.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:33:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 6:41:56 AM EDT by 5subslr5]
Originally Posted By DScott:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By DScott: ..... I really want to know why he thinks this way. Really, really!
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Really ? REALLY ?? [:D]
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..... I think the_survivalist is willing to share his thoughts....
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I don't believe I've referred to "the_survivalist" as a kook (nor did you say that I had) but my fear is these shared thoughts might not be good for the_survavilist.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:37:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By the_survivalist:
Originally Posted By DScott: Absolutely! Normally, people who believe these things are not exactly open to discussion, but I think the_survivalist is willing to share his thoughts... unless everybody keeps calling him a kook, then he'd have to really have balls to say what he's thinking here.
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someone is aparently has enough "balls" to say whats on his mind and he is instantly condemned by the sheeple. perhapse there are more sheeple on this board than we all like to think.
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I'm going to out to clean my hooves. I'll get back to you. [:D]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:38:25 AM EDT
Survivalist....Forget it...in their world of SUV's and stock options, everything is OK. The answer they wanted to the events of Sept 11 was the gov't decree to go shopping. You can't make a dent in them. The Tories are alive and well. And half these peeps ignore most of what the FF's said....like a revolution every twenty years......give up and just live your own life.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:40:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By the_survivalist:
Originally Posted By DScott: Absolutely! Normally, people who believe these things are not exactly open to discussion, but I think the_survivalist is willing to share his thoughts... unless everybody keeps calling him a kook, then he'd have to really have balls to say what he's thinking here.
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yes this "manifesto" is fictitiouse.....
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I believed that was probably the case but still good to things in writing.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:50:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 6:52:13 AM EDT by the_survivalist]
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: I don't believe I've referred to "the_survivalist" as a kook (nor did you say that I had) but my fear is these shared thoughts might not be good for the_survavilist.
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and tell me, was sending the declaration of independence to king george good for the founding fathers???? not trying to flame anyone, but i am just trying to make a point. perhapse my thinking is too complex, i should simplifie things. oh, wait this is a very complex world we live in, there are no simple or easy answers anymore.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 7:08:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By the_survivalist:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: I don't believe I've referred to "the_survivalist" as a kook (nor did you say that I had) but my fear is these shared thoughts might not be good for the_survavilist.
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..... but i am just trying to make a point. perhapse my thinking is too complex,......
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Perhaps you're right.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 7:13:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By the_survivalist: Hello, I am an American freedom activist!, and I make this decree... ...that I will no longer be a subject. This is my vow. This is my new creed. From this day forward, I will not be subject to the unconstitutional laws of the United States government. This government is no longer representative of the people, therefore it is an illegitimate government. I will not fill out a form 4473. I will not submit to the "Instant Checks". I will not pay illegal taxes. I will renounce my social security number. I will not submit to illegal searches and seizures. I will own (and carry) a pistol witch I will not have registered.
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And you WILL go to jail. Not that I disagree with your sentiments, but reality is that you'll get yourself in a boat load of trouble. Let us know your e-mail addy in sing-sing. Maybe they'll still let you post on AR15.com, and you can tell us how it works out. [BD] But all in all, I like your thinking.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 7:48:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By the_survivalist:
Originally Posted By DScott: Absolutely! Normally, people who believe these things are not exactly open to discussion, but I think the_survivalist is willing to share his thoughts... unless everybody keeps calling him a kook, then he'd have to really have balls to say what he's thinking here.
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what i am thinking is that if a new declaration of independence becomes necessarry, most of the people on this board would sit back in there lay-z-boy's and thank god someone else is doing something. from what ive seen here this is the case. someone is aparently has enough "balls" to say whats on his mind and he is instantly condemned by the sheeple. perhapse there are more sheeple on this board than we all like to think.
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It doesn't take any courage to post anything on the internet. Who condemned you?? I ridiculed you, and on some of your points agreed, I also pointed out some of the contradictions in your logic. Sheeple eh??, Just like a WWII Q-ship.
no, i do not really have an unregistered pistol, or any pistol at that. no, i do not have an automatic assault weapon. but if i did, i wouldn't be advertizeing it, or declareing that i will have one. i would declare that i have one and will ues it if necessarry. but i dont so i cant, can i? yes this "manifesto" is fictitiouse, i am not suicidal. just trying to bring some good debate, or maby contreversy to this board.
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Debate this, You say you are so ready to sip at the cup of Liberty, while sying you are not ready to pay for it. How can you have it both ways? I was in the US Army, see patch at left, and pay taxes. I expect certain things in return. Representative government, city services, roads, and schools for my child, to name a few. Taxes may not be fun but they are what keeps the infrastructure of or scoiety in reasonable shape. I am willing to pay for things for the common good, I don't expect much in return. I have listed Rights in the Constitution. I also have a SUR, and 2 pistols. I can do many things related to Liberty. But the freedom to swing my arms about ends at the tip off someone else's nose. I recognize that my actions effect others, and thier actions may effect me. I choose to accept the benefits of society so I should be just a willing to accept the responsibilties.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 7:58:01 AM EDT
Amen, brother!
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:18:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 8:36:48 AM EDT by Major-Murphy]
Originally Posted By the_survivalist: ...was sending the declaration of independence to king george good for the founding fathers???? not trying to flame anyone, but i am just trying to make a point. perhapse my thinking is too complex, i should simplifie things. oh, wait this is a very complex world we live in, there are no simple or easy answers anymore.
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Talking trash on the 'net is not quite the same as what the Founding Fathers did, by Declaring their Independence from England. What THEY did with THEIR statement, was to risk everything, and begin of a WAR that was fought for independence, and the birth of the greatest Nation the Earth has ever seen. Do not for a second insinuate that you are like them, and that we who disagree with you are "sheeple", or as hound puts it, "Tories". Your thinking is very far from "too complex". Rather, it is simple and immature. It is a tantrum, and a pointless, riskless tantrum, at that. McVeigh talked the same trash, but was really just pissed off at the Government, because they wouldn't let him wear a Green Beret. He let his bitterness and self-loathing consume him. What happen to you? The Declaration of Independence was a beatifully written document, WITHOUT SPELLING ERRORS, TOO. Amazingly, this was before the advent of "Spellcheck". Grow up. Be a responsible adult.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:34:35 AM EDT
This is the part that confuses me- you say, basically, that you reject "the system" as it is now, at least in terms of local and national laws, taxes, currency, and so forth. Yet, you obviously benefit from it- from the clothes that you wear, the food you are able to buy at the local market, the roads you drive on, the car you own, the jobs you've had, the schools you've attended and will/do send your kids to, the healthcare you've recieved, the police protection for you and your loved ones, provided the military, and on and on and on. It even extends to the computer, the network, and the internet that you're sending your messages out on... See the contradiction? Where do you think these came from? Who paid for them, made them happen, built them, maintained them, and made it possible for you to even be here, let alone be sitting around and complaining about "the system". Please, tell me just *how* you feel you've been personally *hurt* by this system, besides not being able to buy a couple different kinds of guns? Anybody tattooing an ID number on your arm, forcing you into slave labor, killing you or your family for your political or religious beliefs? I'm serious, and really want to know what you think about these questions.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:35:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hound: Survivalist....Forget it...in their world of SUV's and stock options, everything is OK. The answer they wanted to the events of Sept 11 was the gov't decree to go shopping. You can't make a dent in them. The Tories are alive and well. And half these peeps ignore most of what the FF's said....like a revolution every twenty years......give up and just live your own life.
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Same question to you, man. See above...
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:48:16 AM EDT
I hear folks here rising to the defense of this great nation. It is a nation of great people, but a people who have let their Govt. become a Leviathan. Consider: Income Tax - Of course we need taxes - no one denies this. But when you are responsible for obeying a set of laws that are so grossly and irresponsibly complex that the IRS itself does not know that the law is, that is tyranny. The IRS can seize your property without due process and you have to prove that you are innocent. Tyranny at its finest. This is not even going into the issue of flat-out robbery. When 10 people come to me and say,"We need 15% of the property you earned this year or we will cause you harm." That is called robbery. Why is it that when 51% of the people vote to rob others, it is suddenly moral? Tyranny. Sovreign Immunity: When Govt. agencies can destroy the lives of the citizenry without due process. Please see EEOC, ATF and EPA for fine examples. Property seizures and asset forfeiture where your property can be taken from you without recompense for indefinite periods of time thereby destroying the livlihood of whomever they decide to target. Interpreting the law on a case by case basis and changing that interpretation at their whim. AND YOU CANNOT SUE THEM FOR DAMAGES OR GET COMPENSATION. Sovreign Immunity=Tyranny How many people have we seen in the last 5 years whose lives have been destroyed by the ATF for violating various reguulations that change on a whim. A Court System gone Haywire: Look to Bob Stewart and see what can happen. Whether you agree with him or not, he was not given the chance to defend himself in court. Go to Keepandbeararms.com to see what happened there. It is disgusting. The courts consistently allow laws to stand which are flatly and blatently illegal. Our cries for redress are ignored. Most people ignore this kind of tyranny because it doesn't affect most people. I propose that prior to the start of WWII, most Germans were not affected greatly by the Nazi's either. Most of them went to work as usual and came home to their kids at night. A Govt. does not need to establish Concentration camps to be tyrannical. A tyranny on a few is all it takes. If you for one moment believe that going through the 'legal system' or voting will change the course that this nation is on, you are naive. Those in power will never relinquish it. Their allies in the media and academia will see to it that all the children and the sheeple believe the proper things. The majority population that are net-tax receivers will always vote to rob the productive members of our society of their wealth. We will continue to become more of a democracy and less of a Republic and your individual rights will go down the toilet as this transition takes place. This country is great, but it is going downhill fast and althought the sentiment in the original post of this thread is bellicose, I understand its meaning and the thinking behind it.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:54:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: Debate this, You say you are so ready to sip at the cup of Liberty, while sying you are not ready to pay for it. How can you have it both ways?
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who said i wasn't ready to pay for it. i am simply stateing that while i dont have illegal firearms, maby the time has come that these laws should be ignored.
I was in the US Army, see patch at left, and pay taxes. I expect certain things in return. Representative government, city services, roads, and schools for my child, to name a few. Taxes may not be fun but they are what keeps the infrastructure of or scoiety in reasonable shape.
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again i agree, reasonable taxes are a necessity, but what we are paying now is far from reasonable.
I am willing to pay for things for the common good, I don't expect much in return. I have listed Rights in the Constitution. I also have a SUR, and 2 pistols. I can do many things related to Liberty. But the freedom to swing my arms about ends at the tip off someone else's nose.
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i am not attacking anyone individually. i am also glad you have 2 pistols, i wish i could, but here in the PRNY, without knowing a cop or politition directly, a "permit" to exorcize that part of the 2nd amendment is vertually impossable to get.
I recognize that my actions effect others, and thier actions may effect me. I choose to accept the benefits of society so I should be just a willing to accept the responsibilties.
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good for you, but if the actions of others affects yore death, because yore rights have been limited or eliminated, will this then be enough to bring you to action?? oops sorry too late... certainly there are bennefits to modern society, i don't denie this. but these bennefits are begining to cost too much. the responsability of every individual is to protect the constitution wharever possable, or that constitution means nothing. i will pay some taxes, sales tax on "imported" goods, gasoline tax for the maintenence of roads, etc. but a persons income should be there own money, and 40% of that money should not go directly to the government. origionally the government was run on only a tarrif on imported goods. this was more than enough to run all necessary government programs. but now the gev't is much bigger, there are too many feel good programs like social (in)security, welfare, etc. too many illegal laws, (is that an oxymoron?) sorry i am beginning to rant. as far as my spelling, i get the message acrost dont i? there are the occasional fubars heer and there. i also have slight dyslexia, this makes me reverse words or the location of keys on the board. it sucks sometimes, and i dont have the patience for the spellcheckers..
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 8:57:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: Anybody tattooing an ID number on your arm, forcing you into slave labor, killing you or your family for your political or religious beliefs?
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dont mock it, it is comeing faster than you think.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:07:21 AM EDT
Well I'm glad you can deicide what are fair and reasonable taxes. Look around the Globe, we actually have lower taxes than most industrialized countries, and much lower than some. Gas is $4.00+ a gallon in Germany.... A persons money should be there own....... Good then do with out Social Security benefits, Medicare or Medicaid. Do without FDIC insurance at your bank. Do without the security that is provided to you by the Defense Dept., your local and state police, and you local fire and EMS service. Do without the protections against price gouging that your local utility board provides to keep your gas, water, phone, cable, and power bills under control. Also feel free not to pay water or sewer fees...... I'm sure that will save you so much money, especially when your neighbor doesn't want to pay either.....hope you don't have a well, with what that guy is spreading on his back yard. Yes the government was cheaper to run before it provided all types of services, and was told by the people to regulate many others. You seem to have Liberty and money confused.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:07:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 9:08:13 AM EDT by Major-Murphy]
the-survivalist, Your scary premonitions would carry a little more weight, if your posts didn't look like they were the product of someone with nothing more than a 4th Grade education. Why are YOU so bitter and filled with self-loathing? Work to improve yourself, and your own personal circumstances, and you will find yourself in a happier place. Leave the defense of liberty to us. You've got enough work to do.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:32:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 9:33:07 AM EDT by hound]
Oh god I am going to do this....I started once and decided not to....Oly to reply....I don't give a crap what other nations have for taxes. There have been several people that know more about the tax situation that have said that taxes have no purpose except to transfer wealth away from certain individuals. Germany doesn't produce gas either does it? SS, medicare, etc... It won't be available for me....sorry.FDIC insurance----you remember BCCI? Local state Police and EMS...Well we had a no-knock shooting by local police---as for fire and EMS. They want to start charging. Local utility board....remember California---1000% percent increase nad the were still selling power to Nevada----water phone and cable? Ya kidding right.Wells---I am from the country, that argument don't work. I am happy that in your world everything is rosey....want to visit mine?
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:48:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hound: Oh god I am going to do this....I started once and decided not to....Oly to reply....I don't give a crap what other nations have for taxes. There have been several people that know more about the tax situation that have said that taxes have no purpose except to transfer wealth away from certain individuals.
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Yes there is truth to that.....but it is essence transferring it from those who benefit most to those that have been less able to meet their needs.
Germany doesn't produce gas either does it?
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No they buy most of it from OPEC, like we do. They pay high gas prices to pay for all the costs associated with vehicles, roads, pollution, and mass transit for those who can't afford cars.
SS, medicare, etc... It won't be available for me....sorry.
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Wishful thinking.
FDIC insurance----you remember BCCI?
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No.
Local state Police and EMS...Well we had a no-knock shooting by local police---as for fire and EMS. They want to start charging.
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What does that have to do with anything?
Local utility board....remember California---1000% percent increase nad the were still selling power to Nevada
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Yeah the power crunch has nothing to do with the Kalidiots using more and more power but refusing to let new power plants be built in the state.
----water phone and cable? Ya kidding right.
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No, just consider what the cable guys would charge if they had no controls, whatever the wanted and probably without letting you know about rate hikes in advance.
Wells---I am from the country, that argument don't work.
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Really is that a magic well?? I hope it never gets contaminated or polluted or depleted by some rascal.......
I am happy that in your world everything is rosey....want to visit mine?
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Mine isn't Rosey, but I'm not bitter either, I am responsible for my own hard work. Look at the Constitution, point out where it says that life is fair. Look in religious texts and legal texts too, see if you find a guaranty that life is fair. It ain't you have to play the hand your dealt. If we decide we are better off as individuals than as a society......."we may all hang together, because we'll surely hang separately" comes to mind.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 10:19:32 AM EDT
Crap I wrote a lot and then lost it all. Oly we ain't never agreeing. You hve way to many holes in your arguments.The short form Taxes....are not a transfer of wealth from-to, just from. Vehicles,roads, pollution, masstransit. Gov't buys vehicles? roads...BOND elections masstransit----the system in dallas is more expensive than buying ALL the riders new cars BCCI---big bank--lot's of shady land deals POOF Kalidiots were not using all of the power that their state produce...THEY WERE EXPORTING Cable guys----already happens No buddy at one time we were driving twenty miles to get water....we maybe were going somewhere else but we had to pick up water. I am resposible for my own hard work...snooty much. How about your parents, ever give ya any money? I am too, buddy, I got a great job without a college education and I started out as poor white trash living on cash jobs and living in a house worse that what the welfare system was giving away across town. As for the constitution, find me part or it that hasn't been trampled...and yes it was set up so that a person could have a least a hope of a level playing field. Not 40 to 60% taxation and permits to travel, and etc........I am gone hound out
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 11:05:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: the-survivalist, Your scary premonitions would carry a little more weight, if your posts didn't look like they were the product of someone with nothing more than a 4th Grade education. Why are YOU so bitter and filled with self-loathing? Work to improve yourself, and your own personal circumstances, and you will find yourself in a happier place.
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i would "put myself in a better place" but with high taxation and 2 piss poor paying jobs, i cant afford it. this is the goal of taxation, to keep the trodden whare they are.
Leave the defense of liberty to us. You've got enough work to do.
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wev'e all got work to do. you game?
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 12:54:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By the_survivalist: [ this is the goal of taxation, to keep the trodden whare they are.
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the_survivalist, prior to President Franklin Roosevelt, the goal of taxation was to the pay for the operation of the Federal government including the military, etc. Beginning with Roosevelt the goal of taxation -which includes the above - is to use the Federal Income Tax as the primary means to redistribute income from the "wealthy" to the "poor."
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 1:20:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: the_survivalist, prior to President Franklin Roosevelt, the goal of taxation was to the pay for the operation of the Federal government including the military, etc. Beginning with Roosevelt the goal of taxation -which includes the above - is to use the Federal Income Tax as the primary means to redistribute income from the "wealthy" to the "poor."
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then the gov't needs to seriousely change there tactics, i am far from wealthy, and i get the sh*t taxed out of me. but the richie riches of this country have so many tax breaks its not funny. explain this. also have you heard of "operation wait to file until the trial" you will note that just after the announcement the good congressman backed out.. i am sure there was some kind of pressure there. perhapse the irs doesnt want to answer some of the questions that were going to be asked. the answers would be an admission of guilt of the fact that THE IRS IS ILLEGAL.........
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 1:40:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By the_survivalist: i am far from wealthy, and i get the sh*t taxed out of me. but the richie riches of this country have so many tax breaks its not funny. explain this. ......
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Actually, your statement regarding teh "richie riches" of the world is untrue. Tax shelters and so-called "loopholes" really don't exist anymore. Its a Hollywood lie that has its source in Democratic campaign propaganda. You pay the 15% tax rate. Theirs goes as high as 43% + You get to itemize deductions. Their deductions get phased out. They pay alt min tax that you and I will NEVER pay. If you REALLY wanna see what its like to get the sh!t taxed out of you, look at a "rich" persons tax return. You'll friggen puke, and then faint. A person making $1 mil per year can expect to pay over $300,000 in taxes this year. that's actually a VERY low estimate. Take your gross income, and multiply by 30% and see how much less that you pay, as compared to a "rich" person. Fact is, the tax structure currently is designed to be repressive on everyone. Its designed to make you want to go on welfare, and to punish the "rich" for their hard work and success. Don't be angry with the so-called "rich." They are the people who REALLY fund all the countries excessive socialist welfare programs.
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