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Posted: 1/22/2002 10:32:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2002 11:25:03 AM EDT by 10mmFan]
You can almost feel it in the air. Last night a Discovery Channel show entitled Body Armor was replete with so many lies, contradictions and just plain anti-gun bias that hopefully even the average TV watcher would have been skeptical. (yeah, right) "Anybody can buy an AK47". "Assault rifles will shoot through anything", by a cop no less! It went on and on. Cleverly disguised as a show about body armor it was in fact yet another attempt to mislead the gullible. The Wall Street Journal is now on my boycott list. On the front page today is a gun control article, which continuosly attacks the NRA, disguused as a property rights issue. Outside the editorial page the WSJ is as leftist as almost any other media source. Today's edition will be the last I pay for. WSJ will be sending me a check. I've been a subscriber for more than 10 years but I can do without it. We had better gear up for another big battle. You can feel it coming.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 10:38:37 AM EDT
I saw the Discovery show (propaganda) last night, too. Yes, it was anti-gun. Informative, but anti-gun.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 10:42:34 AM EDT
I did not see the show last night but from the last time I checked a 7.62x39 bullet could go through most vest's the PD wear.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 10:42:52 AM EDT
Yes it was informative and could have been a great show. Too bad. BTW - I just called 1-800-JOURNAL (568-7625). Tomorrow will be my last WSJ and they are sending me a refund check for $94.55. A woman by the name of Kathy seemed to be concerned and even asked why. I told her. Little by little maybe they will learn.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 10:49:43 AM EDT
I turned it off when I heard "guns have become more widely available in the 70's". PHAQUE!
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 10:51:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tayous1: I did not see the show last night but from the last time I checked a 7.62x39 bullet could go through most vest's the PD wear.
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Last I checked, the vests are designed and tested to stop handgun rounds. They aren't designed to stop rifle rounds, so it shouldn't be surprising that they do not. Those who report this vulnerability always seem to ignore these little facts when talking about penetrating "bulletproof vests".
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 10:54:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Halfcocked: I turned it off when I heard "guns have become more widely available in the 70's".
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Yeah, I muffled something to myself when I heard that. Absolutely untrue. No firearms were "more widely available" to anyone. They made it sound like a law was passed to make guns half-price to anyone who wanted one.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 10:56:43 AM EDT
(As I try to restrain myself) Coming? COMING??? [size=3][red]COMING???[/size=3][/red] No offense, but have you been paying attention since, oh say, 1986? Coming! Sheesh!
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 10:57:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By qwijibo:
Originally Posted By tayous1: I did not see the show last night but from the last time I checked a 7.62x39 bullet could go through most vest's the PD wear.
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Last I checked, the vests are designed and tested to stop handgun rounds. They aren't designed to stop rifle rounds, so it shouldn't be surprising that they do not. Those who report this vulnerability always seem to ignore these little facts when talking about penetrating "bulletproof vests".
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The funniest thing I remember was the young officer how told me that in school they told him that a 22LR could penetrate a bulletproof vest. So he doe not wear a vest because of that.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 10:59:01 AM EDT
Taymous - the cop said walls, cars, ANYTHING. You can not hide from these evil guns was the point.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 11:22:20 AM EDT
Actually, KBaker, I've been observing and fighting the anti-gunners since the mid 60s. I hope you understand that things have been pretty quite with Bush in the White House. It won't continue. I also sincerely hope you realize this has been the quite before the storm. If not then maybe you will recognize it next time.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 11:23:17 AM EDT
i thought it pretty interesting the cops had to "borrow" weapons and ammo (ar15s of course) from a local gun shop during the la bank shootout. i'd never heard that before. how could they have been so unprepared? denial? also, the part where they talked about how two officers died as a result of being shot in the armpit area whre there was no vest coverage struck me as odd too. they made it seem as if, as a result, there was this sudden realization that the vests were not perfect and that all kinds of research and redesign could be done to improve them. umm...wouldn't the armhole/weakspot connection be obvious in a matter of seconds jsut by looking at the vest?
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 11:29:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 10mmFan: Taymous - the cop said walls, cars, ANYTHING. You can not hide from these evil guns was the point.
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Normally they can't, not really. But the boosting effect of the folding stock, combined with the vortex enhancipation effect from flash hiders and muzzle brakes (due to ballistic aerocompression) and the carriage increase effect of pistol grips all increase the penetration of the typical assault rifle, which shoots a teflon coated hollowpointed armor piercing 308mm bullet, by upwards of 1500%.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 11:32:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 10mmFan: Yes it was informative and could have been a great show. Too bad. BTW - I just called 1-800-JOURNAL (568-7625). Tomorrow will be my last WSJ and they are sending me a refund check for $94.55. A woman by the name of Kathy seemed to be concerned and even asked why. I told her. Little by little maybe they will learn.
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That's the way to do it. One day they will learn. [B)]
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 11:34:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 10mmFan: Actually, KBaker, I've been observing and fighting the anti-gunners since the mid 60s. I hope you understand that things have been pretty quite with Bush in the White House. It won't continue. I also sincerely hope you realize this has been the quite before the storm. If not then maybe you will recognize it next time.
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Yeah, I know. But why do we relax when we KNOW it's coming?
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 11:39:03 AM EDT
Hey 10mmfan - re: the WSJ - Good job. Hit them the ONLY place they will ever take notice - the bank account. I'm considering doing the same. I already wrote them a nasty letter.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 11:45:47 AM EDT
As I had posted elsewhere on this board, some our members regard WSJ as a friend, personally I regard them as, at best neutral. The WSJ wrote a huge story on the "Ring of Fire" on the Sat. Nite Spl., which resulted in the ban on SNS here in Calif., they wrote an article on the 50BMG which brought on a call ban them as long-range sniper rifles. But on the other side of the coin they did come out so-so against Bill Clinton's assualt weapons ban in '94.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 11:50:39 AM EDT
By Tayous 1 The funniest thing I remember was the young officer how told me that in school they told him that a 22LR could penetrate a bulletproof vest. So he doe not wear a vest because of that. The officer was told correctly, in some cases. 22 and buckshot of 20-22caliber can pentrate if there is enough veloicty. The meplate on this a size projo is to small for the vest to stop. The fibers/vest stop a round by using many pieces of kevlar(or whatever) to stretch and give as it grabs the round.(think trampolene) The 22 caliber projo can get through cause not enough strands are in front of the projo. The front is to small.......We had an officer shot last week in Memphis point blank with a 22. Penetrated the vest but only went skin deep....he was released same day...perp has 8 holes in him and is in hosp in CCU. The vests work great on pistol calibers above 22. The officer should wear his vest....very unsafe practice. Would not be tollerated in our dept. To each his own..... Axeldawg
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 12:03:20 PM EDT
I have to wear a silencer just to muffle my angry comments when I watch anti-gun TV.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 12:05:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2002 12:07:27 PM EDT by Jarhead_22]
[b]Anything[/b] can penetrate body armor if it's going fast enough. They talk about the deadly 7.62x39 AK-47s, but there's no mention of those "cop-killing" .270s and .243s that are out there, available to anybody! [b]Ban the .300 Weatherby Magnum! It's for the children![/b] Or the cops. Or the children of cops. Whatever!
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 12:15:16 PM EDT
Gotta tell ya, I was impressed when the guy testing the vest for repeat hits put three shots pretty much in the same hole! What was the range? 10 yds.? 50'?
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 1:32:31 PM EDT
KBaker - I think we get lulled into a sense of complacency during times like this. They are setting the table. They know they will get a big chance every so often to attack law abiding citizens via a school shooting or any other tragic event. If the "big event" comes when the table has just been set it is fresh on the minds of the gullible and gives them even more manipulative synergy to work with. If a "big event" doesn't come along soon enough they will simple exploit a minor incident. About the WSJ - outside the editorial page I can see no difference in them and USA Today. There are too many sources of accurate news today for me to continue to support them. I'll send the $95 to the NRA and a copy of the cancelled check to the WSJ.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 2:36:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2002 2:38:17 PM EDT by Arquebus12]
Normally they can't, not really. But the boosting effect of the folding stock, combined with the vortex enhancipation effect from flash hiders and muzzle brakes (due to ballistic aerocompression) and the carriage increase effect of pistol grips all increase the penetration of the typical assault rifle, which shoots a teflon coated hollowpointed armor piercing 308mm bullet, by upwards of 1500%.
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Yuck. Got all that sarcasm all over my hard drive... that, and I have to squeegee Diet Pepsi off of my monitor... whattamess. Thanks, Spearweasel; I'm now in the process of fitting a paper towel holder to the side of my tower. [:D][:D][:D]
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 4:19:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2002 4:22:59 PM EDT by SOG]
Three words: The Washington Times. America's only true conservative newspaper. [url]http://www.washingtontimes.com/[/url] Here're some examples of pro-gun commentary: [url]http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/sullum.htm[/url] [url]http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20020117-74457188.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 6:28:14 PM EDT
Yes it is true 22 will go through a vest. I have 2 Point Blank vests. One our Union fought for when we joined FDNY. One I bought prior to that I use a Trauma plate for extra protection. Also a vest life is 5yrs before it needs to be checked if I remember. Why would they put their backdoor ideas into the view? for attention of the Tree huggers and Non AR types. How do you fix the problem. Money Money Money to start. But more than that, the real truth what goes on with law abiding citizens, thoose who use guns for hobbies. The good points need to be shown. A Rebutal Show of Contests, Shows, Rifle Safety Education and your stories. It is time to stand and fight after all. Just talking will not make it happen. Peacefull educated response will help
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 6:35:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2002 6:36:23 PM EDT by trickshot]
Hey, a kitchen knife will go through a vest, too. I agree--this is definitely the lull right now. When Bush got elected, someone on this board said something like "We have four years to prepare, start buying!" I agree. I think if Bush is a one-termer, you will see the all-out assault picking up speed again. It hasn't slowed down that much really--Emerson was a dud, Bob Stewart is getting ass-raped. Those were two indicators I was watching pretty closely. The lawsuits are dying like flies, but the costs have to be piling up, which means the lawsuits are succeeding in bleeding the gun industry dry. As long as their are Shumers and Feinswines and Boxers, Daleys and Red Davis', the outlook will be grim. "It's a 45 Magnum--it shoots through schools!" -- Johnny Dangerously
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 7:07:20 PM EDT
buy your shit now, it won't last forever
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 9:51:20 PM EDT
Dubya's father's public attack on the NRA still haunts me. So we have to wonder how far did the turd fall from the bird? Will Dubya turn his back on us if his political future hangs in the balance? I think we know the answer to that one.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 10:13:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Halfcocked: I turned it off when I heard "guns have become more widely available in the 70's". PHAQUE!
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I saw the show too...there was quite a bit of antigun stuff in there and I didn't see any reference to Richard Davis..."the inventor of modern body armor" and "the man who protected America's law enforcement." When I heard "guns have become more widely available in the 70's" garbage, I wondered if I could call up Bushmaster and order me a new Shorty through the mail...or get me a brand new MP5 from the factory...or buy me a brand new 11-round magazine for a Beretta .40...after all, it's "easier" now, right?
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 10:30:18 PM EDT
an attack is coming? i live in kali, the ATTACK IS HAPPENING NOW!!! we are undersiege SEND RE-ENFORCEMENTS
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 10:45:37 PM EDT
The WSJ was right guys,don't be knee jerks. The NRA is not worth a damn. You gave them power but now that they have it they will do what ever they want and you can kiss there butts.
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