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Posted: 1/21/2002 8:40:00 PM EDT
I worked the "Friends of the NRA" banquet & fundraiser last year. As I was looking at the stuff from the NRA catalog that were "on site", I found close to 90% of it was made in China!!! The NRA rep's answer? "We're trying to correct that." Is this a BS situation or what? Smacks of hypocrisy, IMO. Personally I think it's time for LaPierre to go!!!!!
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 8:50:56 PM EDT
I am pretty unhappy with the NRA over the whole supporting CARA deal myself. Be a while before they get any more money from me. I'll support the small local groups. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 8:59:33 PM EDT
That $30.00 they try to pull out of us (for nothing)can do alot of good some other place,like the GOA. If you still pay them I hope you hunt for every bite of food you eat,if not they don't give a damn about you. They seem to think the founders wanted more than anything for us to be able to eat deerburgers after a long day of pay'en tax.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 7:00:19 AM EDT
LaPierre and Heston need to go. We need Knox.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 7:03:41 AM EDT
Ya buncha whiners. See my post "Today's Target - the Wall Street Journal" and READ what the NRA is doing for you. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 10:31:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: and READ what the NRA is doing for you.
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I do not doubt the NRA's hard work & am grateful for what they do & will continue my annual membership. My point is, WHY did they have to buy Chinese slave-labor stuff???? LaPierre is the head honcho, the buck stops with him. The NRA has wasted untold hundreds of thousands of dollars on a computer system that never got up & running. Again, the buck stops with LaPierre.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 10:48:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BobCole: I do not doubt the NRA's hard work & am grateful for what they do & will continue my annual membership. My point is, WHY did they have to buy Chinese slave-labor stuff???? LaPierre is the head honcho, the buck stops with him. The NRA has wasted untold hundreds of thousands of dollars on a computer system that never got up & running. Again, the buck stops with LaPierre.
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And your point is well made. But I challenge you sometime to try and buy anything of the sort of knick knack / stuff sold in these catalogues for ANY organization. It's ALL made in China. China is the ONLY ones making it. Further, China makes it cheaper than dirt, increasing profit margins from the sale of these goods that can be used in NRA lobbying and functions. That said, its still a deal with the devil. IMO LaPierre is a lightweight anyway. Not the sharpest tool in the shed. Heston is nothing more than an icon, and serves the NRA well in that position. So I could DEFINITELY support getting someone a little more hard core than laPierre. If ever we'll have a chance to make some REAl gun rights progress, NOW is the time. My beef is with those who just like to BITCH at teh NRA. They pay their $30 membership (which I can document costs NRA about $25) and then bitch that their $5 hasn't been well spent by teh NRA. Them people are IMO just weenie wusses. No more the solution to the problem than they claim the NRA is.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 1:02:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: Ya buncha whiners. See my post "Today's Target - the Wall Street Journal" and READ what the NRA is doing for you. [rolleyes]
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I'll not support a group who will give up my land use rights for my gun rights. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 1:16:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aviator: I'll not support a group who will give up my land use rights for my gun rights. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
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Question: Exactly how many causes is NRA supposed to fight for??? The spotted owl??? Nova Scotia fisherman??? Oil drilling rights in the Alaskan Wilderness?? Dolphin safe tune??? Its called teh National RIFLE Association for a reason. Because they are about FIREARMS. NOT land use rights. Or dolphin safe tune. Or anything else. I can imagine the Leftists crafted the CARA thing [size=4]SPECIFICALLY [/size=4] to put the NRA in a catch 22, so either way, they were sure to alienate contributors. And your stance is making the leftists successful at their no-lose situation, at least no lose for them. I don;t expect the NRA to defend my private land use rights. I either do that on my own, or I belong to the "Natioanl Land Use Rights Association." Sheesh - are you gonna also withhold your contributions since NRA hasn't cured male pattern baldnes as well??? [}:D]
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 1:22:50 PM EDT
I send my money for the gun control fight to local groups. No I don;t expect the NRA to fight for my land use rights, but I also do not expect them to support legislation that takes my land use rights away. The fact that they would support something like CARA causes me to wonder about them. They lost an awful lot of support and money out here inthe west when they pulled that crap. People in the east have no idea for the most part what is going on with public and private land use rights in the west. If you loose the right to do what you want on public and private land, you aint gonna have anyplace to shoot anyway. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 1:24:24 PM EDT
NRA Throws Full Support Behind CARA (HR 701) Constitution/Conservatism Miscellaneous Keywords: NRA, CARA LAND GRAB Source: www.paragonpowerhouse.org (email routing) Published: 8/20/01 Author: J. Zane Walley Posted on 08/20/2001 20:54:06 PDT by ratcat Subject: Paragon Urgent Action Alert: A plea to the NRA to drop CARA support Date sent: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:09:12 -0600 "I will sum this up. NRA is the most powerful lobbying influence in Washington. They have thrown their full machine in support of CARA (HR 701). CARA will provide tens of billions of dollars for the federal Government to take private property from unwilling sellers. NRA refuses to rationally discuss this with attorneys who do not agree with their viewpoint." To the Paragon List, Friends, I have been working on an article focusing on the National Rifle Association's (NRA) support of CARA (HR-701). If you are not familiar with CARA, this congressional resolution will provide tens of billions of dollars for the federal Government to take private property from unwilling sellers. During the course of this article, I spoke with Fred Kelly Grant, a retired Federal attorney, and lawyer for Stewards of the Range. Mr. Grant said that in doing a legal analysis of CARA that he had identified over one dozen clauses that allow the government to force private property owners to sell their land. I also called Susan Lamson, the NRA Director of Wildlife and Conservation. I asked Ms. Lamson why NRA supported and lobbied for CARA, and she said that their analysts thought it would be good for wildlife. I asked her if she knew that CARA contained clauses to force the sale of private property. She very snidely replied, "That is NOT the opinion of the NRA attorneys." "Ok", I said, which NRA attorneys did the Bill analysis?" Ms. Lamson blasted me saying "That is none of your business." Then I asked, "Mrs. Lamson would you consider having your attorneys meet with property rights lawyers with a differing point of view?" I asked. "No! She replied very bluntly. " It would be a waste of time because, It would not change our position on this bill.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 1:25:16 PM EDT
I then asked for the name of the department head person responsible having analysis conducted. After many refusals, she gave me the name, James J. Baker, Executive Director of NRA's Institute for Legislative Action. I called his office several times to be thwarted by his assistant, Ted Novin. I asked to speak to anyone in the NRA National Offices who could make a formal statement on their stand on CARA. The reply, "Mr. Walley, there is no one here who can make a statement on this other than Mr. Baker." I reckon Mr. Baker is too good to speak a lowly conservative journalist who disagrees with his dictates from the paper throne, so we never spoke. I will sum this up. NRA is the most powerful lobbying influence in Washington. They have thrown their full machine in support of CARA. They refuse to rationally discuss this with attorneys who do not agree with their viewpoint. I have not written this article because it will give the liberal press a chance to seriously gut the NRA. ' I can see the headlines " NRA Sells Out On Property rights." Or "NRA Supports the 2nd Amendment and throws the 5th Amendment into the Trash." I also have not written it because I remember a youngster how much I loved reading the National Rifleman and remember all the years I have supported what I believed was the most important private freedom organization in America. Frankly, I am sickened by the attitude of the NRA employees I spoke with at their headquarters; but I still love and defend the NRA and will not write this national article until we have tried to persuade them to change their position on CARA. . I ask you loyal folks not just to contact, but rather to besiege the NRA offices with your views of the dubious NRA / CARA pact. When you call the below numbers, your call is entered into a telephone log. Mrs. Lamson denies getting any resistance to NRA support of CARA, so please let Susan Lamson and James J. Baker know how you feel at their direct private office numbers (List below.) CARA/ NRA is crucial today. If you value your private property rights call and NRA the below NRA officials immediately. Please spread this message to your entire list your list. In Liberty, J. Zane Walley [url]http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b81db5e677d.htm[/url] Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 1:34:41 PM EDT
Like I say, I agree CARA is not a good thing. But if the NRA had come out against CARA, then hunters would have come out and bashed the NRA. Fact is, CARA was a two edged sword that no matter WHAT the NRA did, they were sure to alienate someone. Hence my beleif it as likely crafted by teh antis for EXACTLY that purpose. And they are getting their wish if we start basshing the NRA for fighting battles that are NOT the NRA's battles. And we can be SURE to see more catch 22's crafted by teh antis, for teh same purposes. Aviator - I appreciate your patriotism and staunch stand. We just have to be sure that these things don't help the antis achieve their goals. the reality is, if all other rights are lost, as long as we keep our second Amendment rights, we have hope. Withholding funds from the SINLGE group who has the ability to prevent losing our 2nd Amend rights is probably the MOST LIKELY way we can assure ourselves of losing our other rights. My $0.02. I'll let it go now.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 1:38:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2002 1:38:55 PM EDT by Aviator]
Instead of folding on this, I think the NRA should have spent some of thier money to educate the "hunters" on what CARA could do. As I said, I don't expect them to fight FOR my land use rights, but I do not expect groups like the NRA to support legislation that stomps on any of my rights. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 2:42:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2002 2:46:33 PM EDT by LarryinCA]
Just a thought for everyone. If your not willing to support their fight for their rights, do you have the right to complain when they don't support your fight for yours? Larry
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 2:53:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: But if the NRA had come out against CARA, then hunters would have come out and bashed the NRA. Fact is, CARA was a two edged sword that no matter WHAT the NRA did, they were sure to alienate someone.
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That is exactly correct. The NRA took the safe path by supporing CARA (for their interests) because 75% of NRA members are "bolt-gunners"...aka hunters that only care about their hunting guns, and shooters that only want to take advantage of NRA shooting programs. Instead of doing the right thing and bashing CARA (which in turn would alienate 75% of their members and lobbying money), they supported it which just pissed off the members that care about freedom as a whole and the Bill of Rights (all of the amendments).
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 3:19:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LarryinCA: Just a thought for everyone. If your not willing to support their fight for their rights, do you have the right to complain when they don't support your fight for yours? Larry
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As a matter of fact, I do. Its not that I am unwilling to support goups who fight for my second amendment rights, I do, I send money in to several local groups. I will however point out when any group trys to take [b]any[/b] of my rights away, or supports legislation that will. You people piss and moan about K mart, and Rosie regarding gun rights, I am doing the same thing about my property rights. What the NRA should have done was to say "no comment" regarding CARA. Just because they will support one of my rights does not make them always 100% right. What they did by supporting CARA was just plain wrong. You complain that I don't have the right to criticize them because I choose to give my money to other groups? How much money have any of you given to the Democratic party? Probably not any, yet you criticize that group. I have the right to criticize any group I choose. Perhaps the 2nd amendment is the only right you people care to worry about. If so, you are in trouble. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 3:26:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By stubbs: That is exactly correct. The NRA took the safe path by supporing CARA (for their interests) because 75% of NRA members are "bolt-gunners"...aka hunters that only care about their hunting guns, and shooters that only want to take advantage of NRA shooting programs. Instead of doing the right thing and bashing CARA (which in turn would alienate 75% of their members and lobbying money), they supported it which just pissed off the members that care about freedom as a whole and the Bill of Rights (all of the amendments).
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So what is wrong with asking the NRa to educate some of the "bolt gunners"? This tells me some of you are sending money in to a group who will in the end, [b]give up everything[/b] to satisfy that one particular group of gun owners. If they can side with CARA just because it is a "land use rights" issue, and the majority of the money they get is from "bolt gunners" what makes you think the next time they decide to waffle on an issue it will not deal with banning ARs? After all, ARs are not bolt guns, we don't give them as much money as the "bolt gunners". What you need to do, is make a stand, tell call teh local and national NRA leaders and let them know that if they start cherry picking issues you will not support them. Thats what I have done. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 3:51:26 PM EDT
I also have not written it because I remember a youngster how much I loved reading the National Rifleman and remember all the years I have supported what I believed was the most important private freedom organization in America.
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Aviator, it's good to see someone actively try to change what they believe is wrong. It's also good to see a pro-second amendment journalist. My only concern is that you didn't write an article, because, as you said above, you support a group that would be negatively influenced by it. In my opinion, a good journalist is one that reports the facts. Liking or disliking the facts shouldn't influence either whether you cover the story or the impartiality of the story. You know about the story, (I assume) it affects your readers, and it is good news. In my humble opinion, you should have written it. I don't mean anything personal by that comment. I'm just an old man that wonders what happened to journalists who simply reported the news rather than trying to change the world.z
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 4:09:28 PM EDT
Zoom, I did not write that, I only copied it and provided the link so people understood what I was complaining about. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
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