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Posted: 1/16/2002 6:29:28 PM EDT
I think the SWAT guys are having a hard time keeping up....
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 6:33:08 PM EDT
The S.W.A.T. guys are huffin and puffin! And that Rudy guy's voice is starting to annoy me.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 6:34:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 6:35:37 PM EDT
yep it looks pretty weak --and I can hear the feminazi's now !!
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 6:36:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By offctr: I think the SWAT guys are having a hard time keeping up....
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Channel??? I've trained with a SWAT team before and they were pussies. We were their aggressors and they seemed to get a little upset when you fight back.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 6:37:10 PM EDT
Yeah I am watching. POd the swat guys beat the old guys in the log carrying test.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 6:38:10 PM EDT
USA Network
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 6:40:33 PM EDT
Yaawwwnnn...pretty boring thus far.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 6:42:06 PM EDT
Did these guys ever learn to cover each other during movement?
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 6:43:47 PM EDT
Horrible, HORRIBLE, [b]HORRIBLE[/b] fire and movement. No wonder 5/6 SWAT guys got waxed. Don't send boys to do a man's job.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 6:44:49 PM EDT
There must be some kind of range restriction on those gizmos because they tell the teamate that the have BGs coming at them but they don't killem.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 6:50:10 PM EDT
Covering fire ! oh wait I'm out --duh Im dead ok you guys move out in a clump for easy disposal with one burst.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 6:54:48 PM EDT
Any O/C in the military would have rendered that whole squad dead with his God-gun.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 6:55:55 PM EDT
I thought SWAT was going to lose but the one the Tank mission and beat the special forces guys at their own game. Shocking. It goes to show that being able to shoot is what counts. The sissy SWAT guy can't carry a log but killed 7 GUYS!!! More then any other guy. Go SWAT
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 6:57:25 PM EDT
I think its all staged for the folks that don't know any better....not that I'm an expert.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 7:13:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Matrix: I think its all staged for the folks that don't know any better....not that I'm an expert.
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Agreed. They used pretty piss-poor tactics for SF troops and even SWAT.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 7:21:41 PM EDT
The funniest part was when the "sissy" SWAT guy yelled out he was going to lay down some cover fire...then he pulls the trigger and nothing happens...[:D]
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 7:43:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By alphazulu: The funniest part was when the "sissy" SWAT guy yelled out he was going to lay down some cover fire...then he pulls the trigger and nothing happens...[:D]
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Yeah, I saw that too. His buddy that started running got zapped too. When he had the misfire, it looked like he didnt know what to do.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 7:50:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2002 7:56:22 PM EDT by AR-15Fan]
Yeah, the guy did not go immediately to reload, starting trying to grope/reach over the top with his left hand. He was clearly kinda panicky for a few seconds there. Kinda funny... It was a empty mag and not a jam right? Kinda hard to say for sure, maybe he had already reloaded and was panicked by a jam. Not quite as bad but still... It's a real kicker that he did that and the guy he was going to cover got nailed. Wonder if the other guy realized afterwards that he got killed cause this turd screwed up. Sure he got 7 kills, but he directly got a teammate killed, can't say that about any of the other guys... I was kinda surprised the SEAL/Delta guys did so poorly. What were they doing? Like someone else said they'd radio in a position and then sit there while the teammate got killed. Maybe I missed something. Also, it seems like maybe the Miles system or whatever it's called doesn't work quite right. Some good looking/clear line of fire, well aimed shots got bubkiss in the way of hits... That would frustrate the hell outta me. Anyone use that system, it work worth a shit?
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 8:01:35 PM EDT
I hope this catches on, i wanna try
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 8:06:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR-15Fan: It was a empty mag and not a jam right? Kinda hard to say for sure, maybe he had already reloaded and was panicked by a jam.
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I doubt he had an empty mag...I recall hearing a hammer fall forwards...as MarineGrunt said, probably a misfire.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 8:07:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 8:14:07 PM EDT
When did the guy from survivor become a Colonel--in the NAVY no less?
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 8:23:52 PM EDT
I was with 3rd Ranger Batt. out of Georgia and I was hoping to see some Ranger Buddies. O-well I guess they got their "ass in the grass" in Afganistan. I gotta agree with alphazulu, they is nothing like someone saying he'll cover you and hearing that "click" and no bang-bang! My money is on the old timers even if "Don Ho" of Delta is leading. I really liked how he hid in the bushes while the team got waxed. Class act there. And what the fuck is with the all the p*u*s*s*y* at the "Snake Pit"? Pure Ranger-ettes if I ever saw one! LOL! And as far as "cueball/Kojack" goes, never say "If I told you I didn't think I was the best SWAT guy in LA, my buddies would say I was lying" and then die in place in the first few minutes! I'm a police officer and I never saw that guy before in any of the LAPD SWAT shit we get at work! But I sure I'll be watching next week...Happy Shooting!
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 8:41:08 PM EDT
MarineGrunt- actually it was the other team that lost 5 of 6. My paintball team could cover, shooot & move better than that. But I'll be watching it, it's as good or better than all the other junk on TV. I just hope the SWAT guys don't win it all.
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 5:17:16 AM EDT
I saw it, there was lots of neat stuff on there. The Delta Guy was too far off in the back, allowed his men to get wacked. The mag jam was a learning point. Or was it a empty mag? I did here a click on the show. That NC swat guy was a killer, and the hippie looking seal guy. Using the dead as cover. I am going to watch the thing, C-rock
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 6:07:20 AM EDT
It was a bit hoaky but met my already low expectations. Probably give it another try next week. Even though everyone was a former operator and seemed to show a lot of camaraderie, what happened in the field? They seemed to just run towards the objective with little in the form or tactics. Sure, the bad guys knew they were coming and from what direction. But I still saw a lot of guys standing around. The teams were given a couple of breaks though. One glaring break is that the badguys only presented themselves in pairs. The Shadow team was equipped with full auto AKs. Were the teams only equipped with semi M4 looking rifles? I wonder if the show wasn't under some sort of cost constraint because the teams should have had a SAW with them. One more thought: While the military guys were not active duty, what's the deal with the SWAT guys? They looked too young to be retired. Did they get up to 15 week leaves?
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 7:17:00 AM EDT
"Combat Missions" is literally "Survivor-Mohave Desert" with guns and explosions. Same producers. It is totally Hollywood TV with no more connection with reality than "Survivor" has with actually surviving. Bad fire and movement comes from the conditions of winning that dictate score deductions for every minute it takes to accomplish the "mission" That is a prime target for CAS, not a Special Ops team. If I recall correctly, the military prohibited any active duty operators from participating. Here's a link to the show's website: [url]http://www.usanetwork.com/series/combatmissions/[/url]
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 8:33:27 AM EDT
I was a bit miffed by the lack of a fire support team member --or no saw to back the assualt and provide sustained cover fire. Also the counter force gets to run the Op twice thus honing thier skills on each "mission" and only has to get in place just prior to the cameras rolling not manning them full time not knowing when an assualt or from what direction it will take place. There is no hump in or outr they arrive fresh 1/2 mile away form an objective that is exactly as it is mapped on the table (yeah right!!)and the Tank was obliging enough not to bring any of its heavy MG's to bear once contact started to its rear (30 or so min's prior). On the second mission the 2 pairs of bad guys ahd the ambush timing down and opened up from left and right practicly simultaniously wiping out seal guy right off the bat (since when does TC take point into an objective anyway ?) luckilly opfor was dumb (or told to give them a chance) and did not work out thier plan better than that out they wouldve hit 1st and last man at once then pinned the other 3 to the little bank of the trail and walked thier fire into em wiping them out in place before they could move or fight back.
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 9:04:35 AM EDT
I liked it. It reminds me of the show "Boot Camp." I really enjoy all the criticisms about the show. If you guys are so great at fire and maneuver, why are you behind a computer and not out in the field? [:D]
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 9:06:51 AM EDT
thank you !!! Glad I wasn't the only one wondering how someone can spend years in SF, then look like a bunch of trainees on an exercise. I guarantee you I won't be up on one knee with incoming automatic fire. And no one ever heard of a 3 second rush or low-crawl ?? Why did they keep a ruck on during contact ? Oh well, maybe it will get better... I'm surprised Rudy let them make him a "Colonel", as he was an enlisted Navy seal !!
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 9:14:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rangedog: Why did they keep a ruck on during contact ? Oh well, maybe it will get better...
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The ruck contains the electronics for the Laser Tag system they were using to determine hits.
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 9:16:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 9:25:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2002 9:27:04 AM EDT by ronin47]
Originally Posted By rangedog: I'm surprised Rudy let them make him a "Colonel", as he was an enlisted Navy seal !!
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I'm guessing that it has something to do with a big fat paycheck. And I applaud that. Considering everything he's done for this country (including making it safe for capitalism), he could call himself anything he wants in my book. As far as the other criticisms go, mostly true: My basic training platoon was able to coordinate movement better than these guys. BUT we had trained together for a few weeks before getting to an FTX like that. I suspect that true high level operators experience much more unit integrity only after training together for weeks, months, years... These guys are thrown together and sent on a mission after a day. Yes, there were no SAW's or M203's or even handgrenades, the OPFOR didn't use the tank's machine gun, and the prime consideration is that you get "points" for how quickly you complete the mission. So yes, it wasn't realistic. But I watched, occasionally getting upset by the nonsense, reciting the mantra, "It's only a TV show." And in that context, I enjoyed it. Besides, what the hell else is on that I'd rather be watching? Law & Order? 20/20?
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 9:35:21 AM EDT
I didn't say you were disqualified to comment. I just find it amusing that people in a comfy chair would criticize another group of their brothers in a silly game. Case in point: I used to work with this guy who would bitch about how stupid or incompetent management is. He would say he could do a much better job than any of the managers. One of our managers got into a really bad car accident and he would be out at least two months. Management, for all their wisdom, actually promoted this guy to management. I watched as this idiot made one major mistake after another. Within three weeks, they fired him. It's easy to sit back in the shadows and say this is how it's done, but when he was in the spotlight, he really screwed up.
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 9:47:25 AM EDT
I think the fact that they are trying to record this on camera is throughing eveyrones tactics off. If they were using real tactics you would probably have the camera running for 30 minutes and maybe see them for 20 seconds the whole time. Benjamin
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 10:03:03 AM EDT
Hopefully as the weeks progress the teams will have the opportunity to go over IA drills to develop a true sense of team work and SOP. I also believe the teams will come to realise the 5 point per minute deduction is NOT the deciding factor, but getting KILLED is where you will lose the most points. Also, in the Log de Pain, the team that thinks would have been the team that wins. They should have manuvered to the obstical where they had to push the log over the 2 x 4 and balanced the log on the obstical, then 1 man could have kept the log off the deck. The rules were whichever team's log touched the ground first lost, not who made the most laps wins.
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 11:05:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 11:20:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: I think the fact that they are trying to record this on camera is throughing eveyrones tactics off. If they were using real tactics you would probably have the camera running for 30 minutes and maybe see them for 20 seconds the whole time. Benjamin
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That's a good point and I thought about it too. What effect does having a camera man running along side you have on your ability to "get into" it? It has to be a little distracting. I'm also reminded of Mark Burnett's other production, the Eco-Challenge. Camera crews were all over the course in the Borneo challenge. But at least in that setting, the environment would prove equally harsh to the production crew as well as the contestants.
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 2:08:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By John91498: The ruck contains the electronics for the Laser Tag system they were using to determine hits.
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It would be very fun if we could get a hold of these lazer aiming things and get a group together and shoot it out like the paintball or airsoft guys do it. Anyway, I LOVE the show. I liked Survivor, and like this one even more. Yeah, I agree that both teams technique's looked rather odd, but maybe it was just on TV. Don't you like how they have excuses? "We never had to disable a tank in my Delta Force days..." "I never hit the floor when the ememy is shooting. I simply look at them and shoot back." OK, I made that one up. But still... wtf? I bet some of us can beat those guys in this "game". But in reality? I'd let them do it. I will continue watching until its over. So far, I'm going for the Charlie squad. Those old times look like they are in better shape than the other squads.
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 2:37:18 PM EDT
Yeah I noticed that too... Sounds more commander-like to the civvies than "Command Master Chief" I guess
Originally Posted By Zak: When did the guy from survivor become a Colonel--in the NAVY no less?
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Link Posted: 1/17/2002 3:34:32 PM EDT
Yeah I thought the show had a few rough edges, but was real entertaining none the less. I bet if it makes it to next season, they'll have it refined. It looked like fun too. Beats the crap off of the usual TV blah. M4-AK
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 5:34:40 PM EDT
Well, I don't care what anyone says, I enjoyed the show. If you think about it, all of the survivors show are rather lame. At least in this one you get to use a AR-15! [:D] As for the NC SWAT dude, come down to the Anthill Shooting Club at Southport, NC this Sunday. Then y'all can find out just how well Jody Taylor can shoot in the monthly USPSA match. He's a very friendly person, and very competitive as well. Vulcan94 (I'll be there as well, just not as competivive)
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 3:50:34 PM EDT
It's repeated tonite Sunday and also Tuesday nite, in addition to the regular wednesday slot. M4-AK
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 4:35:10 AM EDT
I wonder if the troops in Afghanistan get the USA network. I'm sure they'd like some humor over there. "Hey guys, that lame ass show Combat Missions is on!" This is a disgusting display of someone trying to capitalize on all the hoopla of the last 5 months. Christ if they want ratings they should replay a decades-worth of terrorist attacks then zoom in on some live coverage of US GI's storming and bombing rat holes in Tora Bora. You couldn't rip me away from the screen, as for "Combat Missions," I'll skip it and read a book.
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 1:13:42 PM EDT
The show was not meant to capitalize on 9-11. Show was conceived as far back as Survivor 1. I recall talks back then. Filmed entirely before 9-11. It's just another example of reality television but I think a good example. It's like paintball except played by real pro's from the cream of special ops training. I enjoyed it. M4-AK
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 1:19:58 PM EDT
Saw it. Saw it after Blackhawk Down, and was mortified. Won't watch again.
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 4:50:14 PM EDT
M4-AK, I hear ya, it probably was conjured up prior to 9-11, good point. However, I feel that less 'drama' is needed. It seems too over dramatized. I also think they should be made to pound a beer every time they duck for cover. It'd make for some interesting judgement calls by the time they reach their objective. Either that or give each team a case of Shlitz and tell em they can't win the mission until each can has been consumed by conventional means. Something, it just seems too predictable and well, like a USA network show... I do stand corrected on the show's origin. Just my 2cents...
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 6:21:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 10:23:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gloftoe: Hmm. I just tuned into this show tonite, what the hell is it about? What weapons/ammo are they using? How do they tell if they're hit or not? I'm confused. Someone enlighten me? -Gloftoe
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Former military operators and current SWAT cops are grouped into teams that square off against each other. Sending teams of men who've just met into combat. Draw your own conclusions about that. Teams each run a scenario and compete based on a "points" system (factoring time to complete mission, men dead, and goofy extra credit points). The losing team has to replace a man. Looks like they're using MILES gear -- M4's or M16's firing blanks and a laser. Each "soldier" wears an array of sensors. If a laser hits a sensor, you've been shot. Grown up laser-tag.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 5:34:50 AM EDT
Just watched episode 2. Better than 1 I thought. One team had no casualties, then got ambushed on the way back. Interesting. I'm suprised by the low number of AR-15'ers who are posting about watching this. I like it, seems like others should find at least some mild entertainment with it. Oh well. Remember Sundays and Tuesdays are second chance days due to replay. M4-AK
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