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Posted: 1/15/2002 7:18:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 7:23:42 PM EDT
Rest assured the cops will hassle the guy if he reports this. Just SOP in many departments IMO. Nothing will be done as the cops protect the vermin among them, causing a loss of respect for the good ones. Sad, ain't it?
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 7:23:46 PM EDT
Yeah - don't fuck with the police! I know a lot of those Atlanta cops are mean as hell. Don't even get me started on the corruption, esp Dekalb - assasinations and shit like that. Ever hear of some of the shit that used to go down in Douglas county? Watch y'all's six!
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 7:25:49 PM EDT
You better get some FED (FBI) help on this one....the local fuzz sounds a LITTLE too crooked...... [whacko] Bulldog OUT
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 7:27:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 7:29:51 PM EDT
Tell you brother to forget going to IAD. Not healthy for him at all. Much better to go to the State A.G.'s office or to the Fed's - i.e. Dept of Justice or the FBI.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 7:36:48 PM EDT
Tell your brother to go to internal affairs. His fear of retaliation is understandable but is largely a myth. A strongly believed myth thanks to T.V., movies ,media hype and people with a political agenda ,but a myth just the same.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 7:38:05 PM EDT
Call the feds or keep your nose down.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 7:38:24 PM EDT
I hear ya, Sweep. Call the GBI. Forget calling anyone in the Atl police. My Douglas Cty. info is second hand news so I won't repeat it here. It was a long time ago.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 7:44:35 PM EDT
I think this quote is appropriate: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (1729-1797) Disclaimer: I'm a coward who has never filed a report on any abuse I've seen. If your brother follows-up on this, then he's a better man than I.z
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 8:09:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 8:32:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sukebe: Tell your brother to go to internal affairs. His fear of retaliation is understandable but is largely a myth. A strongly believed myth thanks to T.V., movies ,media hype and people with a political agenda ,but a myth just the same.
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Damn, I wish you were around when I was with my ex-girl friend. She was sure that dead and skinned cat left on her front door, her new car set afire at work and 14 traffic tickets she got in 5 weeks (never got one in previous 9 years) was because of 2 cops she reported to internal affairs for shooting at an unarmed man. Oh yeah, internal affairs told her they would keep her indentity secret until the trial. She got so scared that she dropped out of university and left the state and never returned. Now about 10 years later I heard that one of those cops is going to jail for killing a unarmed man. Hey Sweep, tell your brother to forget the local cops. Go try the state or federal.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 8:41:43 PM EDT
I'd call an attorney, then maybe drop a dime to the press, FBI. Doesn't hurt to have the feds look into this, as it does pertain to 4th Amend & civil rights. Attention. Attention. Attention. Attention. Criminals [b]hate[/b] the limelight. So, bring it on. Anonymously. Blaster out.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 8:45:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sukebe: Tell your brother to go to internal affairs. His fear of retaliation is understandable but is largely a myth. A strongly believed myth thanks to T.V., movies ,media hype and people with a political agenda ,but a myth just the same.
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Tell that to the homeless guy!
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 7:09:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sukebe: Tell your brother to go to internal affairs. His fear of retaliation is understandable but is largely a myth. A strongly believed myth thanks to T.V., movies ,media hype and people with a political agenda ,but a myth just the same.
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Sweep, My experience with going with the 'AG' or 'internal affairs' route, is to forget it. You do not know what these alleged 'rogue' cops are up to, but they don't sound like their liable to take kindly to an investigation, especially if your in their AO. Tell the homeless guy to find a new AO as well. If this is true, it is a sad day for all of us. Gib (bleeding heart'commie'from Mass.)
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 7:17:43 AM EDT
Listen, in my opinion the only way your brother is going to have a prayer on this one is if he can get it all on videotape with close up face shots, etc. and send the tape to the local media, they should take it from there. Otherwise, I would tell him to not report it, it most likely wont go anywhere, and he'll have the cops on his ass. I dont agree with what they allegedly did, but it's your brother's word (and the word of a drunk homeless guy) against 2 cops. Not stacked in your brother's favor, especially with the wife and kid. Single male, he would only have himself to worry about, when you have a family things can get sticky. I would advise he leave it alone and carry a camera or videotape from now on, in case he runs across this again.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 7:21:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sweep: Thanks for the input. I think maybe the GBI might be a better way to go. I think I'll also talk to some local LEO's I know and get some input from them tomorrow.
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Sweep, go to the FBI or go no where. (PLEASE)
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 11:54:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GlockRules: Listen, in my opinion the only way your brother is going to have a prayer on this one is if he can get it all on videotape with close up face shots, etc. and send the tape to the local media, they should take it from there. I would advise he leave it alone and carry a camera or videotape from now on, in case he runs across this again.
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What he said. BULLDOG OUT
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 11:58:14 AM EDT
Hey, now, we don't know the cops side of the story..........I'm sure the guy deserved it.......he must have been doing something........the cops don't just target innocent people........
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 12:07:23 PM EDT
This sounds like a job for the [b]A TEAM[/b]! [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid28/p9c5e5be7d8fc2e438890ebd8fc6ee837/fdfe7582.jpg.orig.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 12:32:21 PM EDT
I think your bro owes it to his family to wait for another day when he can videotape the abuse. This is one of those things where you want to have a slam-dunk array of evidence that is impossible to ignore. He shouldn't get into a situation where things are "pending" or dangling. If those citizens who happen to be police officers screwed up once, they will likely screw up again. Hopefully, they will be caught red-handed at some point, either by your brother or some other upright and video prepared citizen. But this is just my opinion.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 12:43:15 PM EDT
this is unacceptable, tell him not to say anything, but try to gather evidence.. and then goto the feds. if the cops retaliate then he has the "right" to defend himself.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 1:35:44 PM EDT
My job used to require me to be in regular contact with officers from the city and county departments surrounding Atlanta and they were almost without exception a pleasure to deal with. The Atlanta Police, on the other hand, were the complete opposite. I would go out of my way to avoid contact with anyone from the APD. They treat everyone they come into contact with like they just arrested them for wife beating the night before. It's stupid and it's a shame but it's a fact. And the only people that can fix it are the APD.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 1:41:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2002 1:44:27 PM EDT by ubergeek]
This is one of the many reasons I live OTP, and the hell away from Atlanta. Edited to say.........I have it from a reliable source......one of those guys that follows police around with a camera for a tv show.......that APD is one of the worst PD's he has ever been around.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 2:34:38 PM EDT
You civilians always resort to cop bashing.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 2:42:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: You civilians always resort to cop bashing.
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I pity the fool who beat on my homeless homies!
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 2:43:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2002 2:49:16 PM EDT by AR15fan]
The bum is the one that should file a complaint, if he wants to... One point that many are overlooking is the bum might actually prefer getting roughed in response to his crimes rather than a trip to jail. The street has its own rules of etiquette. As for breaking his liqour bottle. I'm quite sure the law allows for confiscation/destruction of open containers possessed in public.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 8:29:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: You civilians always resort to cop bashing.
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A cop bashing is a felony, civilian bashing is a sport for some Gib ;{>
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 8:35:37 AM EDT
Report it to IA, then the state or federal level authorities if nothing happens. Law enforcement DOES police its own. The vast majority of IA complaints, especially n use of force issues, are generated from within the department, and not from outside complainants.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 9:19:03 AM EDT
Get it on tape, closeups if possible. Get shot of car's number, plate, etc. Deliver a copy of the tape BY HAND to the local TV news. The call the FBI, give them a copy. Speak to no one else. Take a vacation.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 9:53:37 AM EDT
Don't forget thet Sweep's information is second hand, even though it is his brother. I am only saying that to the people that are telling Sweep what to do. If his brother didn't get a car #, badge#'s or names, what is he going to report?? If the arrestee makes a complaint, then Sweep's brother can be a witness for him. I don't think Sweep's brother making a complaint will do him much good without some specifics. Just my .02
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 10:53:35 AM EDT
Are you saying that you are doing people a favor when you beat them up, AR15fan?
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 11:34:28 AM EDT
The guy who allegedly got thumped has to make the complaint: No Victim: No Crime. Jay
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 12:47:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZCOP: The guy who allegedly got thumped has to make the complaint: No Victim: No Crime. Jay
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No Justice: Gib
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 5:48:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2002 5:48:47 PM EDT by LE6920]
Originally Posted By AZCOP: The guy who allegedly got thumped has to make the complaint: No Victim: No Crime. Jay
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Not true, there are "victimless" crimes. Ever hear of prostitution? The victim does not have to make a complaint for IAD to roll on it. What they do, well, that is another matter.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 6:24:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZCOP: The guy who allegedly got thumped has to make the complaint: No Victim: No Crime. Jay
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Good Point! - Maybe SWEEPS brother should find the homeless guy and pass on your advice. He might also help the poor "alleged victim" find himself a good Johnny Cochran wannabe and volunteer to testify, and drop a line to the local press about a "alleged" case of police brutality.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 4:22:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rabbit9: Good Point! - Maybe SWEEPS brother should find the homeless guy and pass on your advice. He might also help the poor "alleged victim" find himself a good Johnny Cochran wannabe and volunteer to testify, and drop a line to the local press about a "alleged" case of police brutality.
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Maybe,,,, he should. Jay
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 3:09:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZCOP: The guy who allegedly got thumped has to make the complaint: No Victim: No Crime. Jay
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Let me guess, it's not a crime unless you're caught?
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 4:31:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GungHo: Let me guess, it's not a crime unless you're caught?
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This is not rocket science: If the "victim" chooses for what ever reason not to pursue charges, then there is no crime to prosecute. Example: You get into a fight with your buddy, and he kicks your ass (or you kick his, which ever makes you feel better): The cops show up, and you tell them, "We were just having a little fight: No big deal: I don't want to press charges". Your buddy says the same thing verbatim: The "victim" does not want to pursue charges, so if there are no charges, there is no crime. No victim: No crime This is not an argument: This is reality Jay
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 4:38:57 PM EDT
10 day cool off periods on video cameras. Jay
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 4:41:07 PM EDT
This is not rocket science: If the "victim" chooses for what ever reason not to pursue charges, then there is no crime to prosecute. Example: You get into a fight with your buddy, and he kicks your ass (or you kick his, which ever makes you feel better): The cops show up, and you tell them, "We were just having a little fight: No big deal: I don't want to press charges". Your buddy says the same thing verbatim: The "victim" does not want to pursue charges, so if there are no charges, there is no crime. No victim: No crime This is not an argument: This is reality
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Gee, and you are in the same state as me too! I respectfully disagree. If the "victim" doesn't want to pursue charges, the crime still happened and can (and often is) prosecuted by the local county attorney. The victim's lack of interest may affect the prosecutor's interest in the crime, but a prosecution is still possible. This often happens with domestic violence cases, where Spouse A who got beat up doesn't want Spouse B to be prosecuted. Spouse B often is anyway.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 5:48:46 PM EDT
Yup, I'd try to discreetly videotape it. I've got one of those newer Sony digital video cameras with the Night Shot feature. With a good IR source, you can see quite a bit. Try to get their faces or a least license plate and patrol car number. Then anonimously submit the tape to the local TV station, state police, DOJ/FBI, etc.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 5:55:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chairborne_Ranger: Gee, and you are in the same state as me too! I respectfully disagree. If the "victim" doesn't want to pursue charges, the crime still happened and can (and often is) prosecuted by the local county attorney. The victim's lack of interest may affect the prosecutor's interest in the crime, but a prosecution is still possible. This often happens with domestic violence cases, where Spouse A who got beat up doesn't want Spouse B to be prosecuted. Spouse B often is anyway.
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Don't get me started on domestic violence laws [:(!] You're sort of in the business, so you know as well as I, the reality of the situation. If the "victim" is un-cooperative, and will not testify, or there is a very good possibility that based on the "victim's own statements, that they will not co-operate in the prosecution, the C.A. will not take the case. No co-operation: No victim: No crime. Here's an interesting thought: If a person is acquitted of a crime (such as killing in self defense: sound familiar), did a crime actually occur? Was there a victim? I know you'll have something good to say about this, but even before your guy was acquitted, as far as I was concerned, there was no crime: Hence: No victim. I stand corrected: Your guy was the victim. BTW, how's my formerly unfired, pristine M4 upper working out? Jay
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 6:44:31 PM EDT
Nope. Forget the criminal charges for a second and forget about "victimless crime." In an IA investigation like this, the Department is the complainant, and it is not a criminal investigation, by law, but an "administrative" investigation. Even if they never find the homeless guy or file a criminal charge (lets say the victim refuses to cooperate or refuses charges), the Department can should and probably will discipline the officers. Even if they deny everything, if their stories are different (and they usually are for this kind of crap), they will be disciplined for lying to IA, and lying to IA is by far the administrative offense that results in the most terminations of police officers (as a local labor rep, I know). Report it to the Department's IA section. The Department has a vested interest for many reasons to stop this kind of crap (and that is the tamest way to put it). Namely: 1) It is the right thing to do; 2) It makes their Department look bad, and worse if they don't do anything about it; 3) It makes the public not trust them (as evidenced by the paranoia witten here and fear of retaliation); 4) It makes the community lose respect and makes their jobs harder (I bet your brother is more reluctant to call the Police about anything, right now); 5) Civil Liability. If they have bad cops and don't do anything about it, they will eventually pay. I cannot urge you strongly enough to have him report it to IA. Please let us know what happens.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 7:46:06 PM EDT
If the "victim" is un-cooperative, and will not testify, or there is a very good possibility that based on the "victim's own statements, that they will not co-operate in the prosecution, the C.A. will not take the case. No co-operation: No victim: No crime.
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True. Sometimes. But often the victim makes all kinds of incriminating remarks against alleged perp at the time of officer contact, officer records those in his report. Then in the event of victim recantation, victim's prior inconsistent statements and motivation to change story is used to still convict alleged perp. And if cop is a direct witness to the crime, prosecution can roll forward. It all depends on how badly the prosecutor wants the perp (priors, etc.). Hey that M4 is working great, I took it to Front Sight for the four-day rifle class, with an ACOG atop. It's not *quite* as pristine anymore . . . [;)] If you ever get over this way you're more than welcome to a test-drive.
If a person is acquitted of a crime (such as killing in self defense: sound familiar), did a crime actually occur? Was there a victim?
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If simple acquittal, there was a crime, they just couldn't prove this guy did it. Maybe another guy did it. If the defendant acknowledges the elements of the crime and has justification (self defense), and the jury agrees, no crime!
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