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Posted: 1/13/2002 5:24:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:26:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:27:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:31:18 PM EDT
Will the Attorney let you pay him off gradually???? Benjamin
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:32:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:37:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:52:14 PM EDT
I apologize for missing it but, I never got a chance to read the original threads. I believe my computer was down and I was hunting at the time; can someone point me to the original threads?
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:56:40 PM EDT
I've not posted on this long and drawn out episode of injustice because I can't find the words to describe the gut feelings I have for situations like this. But I have been here never the less. About the best I can do is declare that this is not the country I defended for nearly 16 years. All of the officials who have participated in this travesty should hang as a reminder to the others. My fellow Leatherneck, I'll be there if all hope is lost.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:00:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:18:03 PM EDT
If the charges are reduced to a violation and you plead guilty to it the FBI and DCJS records will list the original charges you were arrested for and the disposition. If you go to trial and are found not guilty or get the charges dismissed your arrest records will be expunged from the system. The arrest records will follow you around for the rest of your life. Take this into consideration when making your decision. It doesn't sound like the DA is agreeable to a plea to a lesser charge anyway. You have to understand that the DA plays a game of cat and mouse. If he feels he has a strong case he won't budge. If he has a weak case he may hold out to the last minute to throw you off. If he does offer you a deal you may want to push it the limits anyway as it indicates he feels his case is weak. This is a tough decision that only you and your Attorney can make. The whole episode sucks. I hope everything works out for you.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:21:18 PM EDT
Has your Attorney discussed an ACD and having the records sealed?
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:21:24 PM EDT
I don't understand a great deal about New York criminal procedures, but it sounds as if your lawyer is offering a 'deal' to the prosecutor to have this matter handled as a 'violation' and not as a conviction, and the prosecutor has refused. At a pre-trial conference, your attorney might make the same offer in front of the trial judge, and the prosecutor might be advised to go through with the offer! Judges don't like trials any more than you do! At the Mapp Hearing, it will be up to the State to prove that the evidence was obtained constitutionally. Even if you lose at that stage, and the trial judge decides the search was lawful, then the prosecutor must calculate the possibility that an appeals court might later overturn the trial judge's decision. If this deal is actually offered, then accept it by all means and don't even think about criticising yourself about it later! You'll be home with your family 'later' and that's all you need to worry about now! Attorney's fees are sacred to me, as to any lawyer, but at this late date, would the trial judge permit your attorney to withdraw from representation simply because you could not afford to pay him 'up front'? In Texas, most lawyers routinely are required to handle cases to a conclusion once they've signed on as defense counsel! Obviously, you want a happy and paid attorney representing you, because a happy and paid attorney is an effective attorney! Work this fee matter out with the attorney NOW! It might make him work harder at winning the Mapp Hearing! [:D] Eric The(GodBlessYouAndYourFamily)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:25:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CockedandLocked: I know how you feel about being in the right. If it was me Id take the summons, no record, no reflection on or against my right to carry, just to be done with it. hell its no more than a misdemeanor "busted taillight" rock on and get the hell out of N.Y. !! just my .02
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if he's lucky enough to be offered the deal at all. sounds like the prosecutor's got a burr up his arse. though i'm inclined to agree with you about taking the deal if it's offered, but then, i haven't walked in oneshot's shoes. nor do i ever want to. oneshot, fight the good fight...legally! [:)]
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:36:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:39:01 PM EDT
oneshot: If there's one thing I hate is a good case being lost because someone runs out of money. Remember that many here would be willing to squeeze off a few less rounds over a month to help you out. Call it a loan, RKBA donation, whatever. Just know that NO ONE on this board wants to see you get screwed because the state is burning your tax money and has you out-spent. It may be one of us who need the help at some point in the future. Heck, most of us probably have AR15.com on our emergency notification lists. Let us know. We'll do what we can for you.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:40:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:42:05 PM EDT
One shot...If you take a deal now to save some money your record is no longer clean. POLICE TARGET THOSE WITH RECORDS! If you plead to this now you affirm to the court that they did the right thing in pursueing you, and they will do it again for the same satisfaction.Its their job, its a process, nobody can stop it. Next time the stakes will increase, and you get the reputation of a habitual offender. You really don't know the price you pay for a guilty plea for a weapons charge until much later in life.It guarantees you special lodging next time you are hooked up. I really don't think you'll see the outpouring of sympathy from here that you have enjoyed this time around, next time as well. Everybody here expects you to fight this until proven "innocent", rather than "not guilty", or "no contest".
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:51:36 PM EDT
Local criminal courts in NY handle traffic infarctions, small claims hearings, violations and misdemeanors. A transfer to Supreme CT in WP's would mean that felony charges have been brought against you. Did you have a felony hearing? I'm sorry if I sound confused but none of this is making sense to me. EVERYTHING in NR is FUBAR so maybe there is something I'm not aware of. You really need to discuss this with your Attorney.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 7:22:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2002 7:23:56 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 7:43:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER: I apologize for missing it but, I never got a chance to read the original threads. I believe my computer was down and I was hunting at the time; can someone point me to the original threads?
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Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 7:46:53 PM EDT
it just angers me to no end that the only justice in this great country, is what you can afford. as long as you have allot of money you can get away with anything (including murder) 1s1k id be willing to contribute to your defense because im so pissed off at our legal system. i was railroaded years ago in KY while serving my country in the US ARMY by some backwards LEOs and a corrupt legal system. An off duty LEO started a fight with me and i ended up breaking his nose, a couple of fingers, and hurting his pride...i ended up getting arrested and royaly screwed..i ended up spending all the money i had been saving while i was in the mulitary for my legal defense..i ended up pleading guilty to some lesser non felony charges but the whole situation sucked big time. im new here but im willing to give what i can if you need it
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 8:46:13 PM EDT
Don't be afraid to 'bother' your attorney with questions- it's part of his damn job to answer them! Most attorneys will allow you to make payments if you can't afford to pay the whole fee up front. Most people can't. You need to fight this. Obviously I don't know everything about your case, but based solely on your prior posts a good attorney can make the following arguments: 1. Your initial arrest (taking you down to the station for questioning) was unlawful, and therefore everything that happened after that was unlawful, as well. Did they ask you if you were willing to go downtown for questioning, or did they just take you? If you didn't consent to go and they didn't have probable cause to ARREST you AT THAT TIME, they violated your rights. If they 'weren't sure' that your rifle was legal, too bad for them. Just because they don't know how to tell if an AR15 is semi-auto or not isn't grounds to hold you. They have to have objectively reasonable grounds to believe the gun is really illegal, not just be clueless about guns. 2. The consent you gave them to search your home was coerced. If I recall correctly, you posted that they told you 'give us consent OR WE'LL GET A SEARCH WARRANT'. Did they say that, or did they say they would APPLY for a search warrant? If they said they would GET one, that's coercion, because they're telling you that they're definitely going to search your house no matter what. Nobody knows if a judge is actually going to grant their request for a warrant until they make application. Every state that I'm aware of says the cops can threaten to apply for a warrant, because that's something we can legally do. Saying that we'll definitely get one is another story. 3. Did you ask for an attorney and were denied before you gave consent? Did you ask for an attorney at all? If you did, any questions they asked you afterwards without your attorney present were illegal and your answers should not be admissible in court. If you admitted that you had a stungun in your house after being denied your right to counsel, that will go away, too. Talk these things over with your attorney before your Mapp hearing, ask him what issues he is going to present to the judge. If he hasn't thought of some of the above, suggest it to him. However, if he hasn't thought of these things, you really need a new attorney.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 8:57:07 PM EDT
The DA may just be pushing you because he may know that you don't have any money. The whole case may be dismissed but that will be between you and your lawyers tactics briefings. Benjamin OneShot you are in my prayers.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 10:53:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 11:22:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 11:34:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By grimshaw: ...I really don't think you'll see the outpouring of sympathy from here that you have enjoyed this time around, next time as well. Everybody here expects you to fight this until proven "innocent", rather than "not guilty", or "no contest".
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grimshaw, I for one would appreciate you not using the term, "Everyone here", unless you've polled "Everyone " here. Do your own talking and I'll do mine. Thanks
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 2:38:09 AM EDT
Try contacting; [url]http://www.saf.org/[/url] Perhaps they can help, although it is short notice.... Ask for Alan Gottlieb
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 3:28:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 4:03:41 AM EDT
oneshot, I had a similar problem 23yrs ago. I was aressted on a class D felony ( intimidation with a deadly weapon ). I hired just a regular attorney that had handled some bussiness affairs for me. I was not guilty and had two state police administered poly graph tests that concured. I ended up firing that attorney when he wanted me to accept a plea so he did'nt have to walk back and forth to the court house filing motions. I hired a criminal lawer and told him the run down and that I was not willing to plea,two days later I had a letter from the prosecutor dismissing all charges with predgedice. Tell em you want a speedy jury trial. I would never admit to something that I did not do,or they did not have enough evidence to prove. Prosecutors will play you to get you to cop a plea and it will hound you from that time on, by the way they won't expunge your records themselves you will have to hire a lawer to do that. I know the grammer and speeling natzi's will love this post,my spell check won't work. If you fight em good luck.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 7:26:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2002 7:37:19 AM EDT by oneshot1kill]
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 7:51:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 8:38:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 8:41:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2002 8:42:58 AM EDT by EdAvilaSr]
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 9:17:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 9:42:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 9:47:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 9:58:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 10:18:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By oneshot1kill: ...There is also no way in hell that I would take one dime from anyone here for my personal problems...
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i would ask you to reconsider this statement. even though i am of the same camp of thought. i do not like accepting what i feel are "handouts" for a personal problem of my own. however, i believe that your case might well save those around you from the same nightmare and serve as an reminder to those who would strip liberty and due process, that these things are not taken lightly by us as gun owners. i feel that your problems are not personal problems, instead they are problems that could potentially face each and everyone of us. consider donations even as a selfish means of ours to protect ouselves [b]as well[/b] as you. there is not doubt in my mind that the more $$$ you have backing up your case, the more clout you will have in court. that is precisely the same prinicple being used [b] against [/b] you right now. im sure these people know that they are screwing you, but they also know they can, because their $$$ talks. the caviat to all this, however is your family. i understand completely that you are not keen on being seperated from them, causing them undue stress, anguish or fear about what may happen to you. i hope that you will fight this with whatever recources are offered by concerned citizens like myself, other people, and defense groups but above all i recognize that family comes first and sometimes we cannot do what we think is right for need of doing what is best for our loved ones. again, best wishes to your case, God bless you for all your trouble past and to come. colinjay
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 12:43:18 PM EDT
This is why I hate the system and beat up on statist guys on the boards with so much zeal. You don't know how fascistic our country is until you actually have to deal with cops, DAs and judges and then you realize how corrupt and evil everything is. That DA only cares about his conviction record and future political career. You are just dirt under his feet. The whole idea of offering deals and such and such is just so much used car bullshit! It is all psychological games--your lawyer benefits from this just as much as the rest of the assholes do. Were I faced with the same situation, I'd fight it, but that's coming from someone who got royally screwed once as a kid. I've read your other posts and I feel that your letting the police search your home was unjustified and probably coerced. But you have to decide on the cost issue. Lawyer fees are clearly the other way we little people are made to knuckle under--when you have to pay to play, you don't get too far. At least you aren't looking at a felony. Even if you lose the misdemeanor case, what is the worst that can happen? Probation? Would you do any time? Your record would be tarnished, but that is not a reflection on your character except when other statists who mistakenly believe in the system are looking. Nope, I'd fight it all the way, even if I had to sell all my guns and live like out on the street. It'll be a cold day in hell before the system puts one over on me.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 1:13:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 1:24:08 PM EDT
oneshot1kill, As many members have said, please accept our contribution. If not for your lawyer, for your grandkids' collection. We wonder why we work so hard. To make the world a better place.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 2:18:56 PM EDT
oneshot1kill, As I've said in the past, just let me know and I'll have a check in the mail to you to help with your legal expenses. You and your family are in my prayers always. Thought I saw in an earlier post that "us leathernecks" must stick together. WEll, I'm no leatherneck but I am a retired squid. Youo have my 100% support. Just say the word. Semper Fi shipmate! Gil Frank, USN(ret) [peep]
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 3:33:14 PM EDT
Oneshot- Fight it, and stick to it. First off, and foremost, you did nothing wrong. That's more than just a little pertinent, so I'll say it again. YOU DID NOTHING WRONG. Secondly, if the MAPP-thing falls through, and you go to trial, the worst that can happen is that you'll lose; but you'll go to your grave knowing you fought. There are worse things in this world than having to do a little time/pack around a record. (I, too, strongly urge you to reconsider the accepting of funds from a legal defense fund; asshole Bill Clinton started several of them, and no one will think less of you for doing the same.) Please fight it. I know it's a lot to ask, but my gut tells me that the thumb-dicked DA is blowing smoke; he's got to save face, remember, because he's a politician. Don't forget that. A loss, especially a messy one like this, will hurt him where it hurts the most, in his career. Think of it as kind of a guerilla tactic; hit him in his softest spot, in this case by calling his bluff. An important point I've yet to see addressed here is, have you considered going to the press with this? I don't mean the New Rochelle Daily News and Farm Report, or whatever it is you all have, but to some place like the Sierra Times? I don't honestly think it could hurt, but I don't know... You're a good guy, Dom, and my gut tells me that you should do the right thing, and fight the good fight, because YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG. You've come this far, and it's been tough, I know... don't quit now, with the summit in easy reach. Again, if you fight and lose, then you lost, you live to fight another day, and you have the impetus for leaving the State of New York. If you fight and win, glory upon your head, and you live life the way it was meant to be; free of fear, and bold in your convictions. In either case, you have a valuable lesson to pass on to your kids. I also think you owe to yourself, your family, and to everyone here you've shared this with to fight it. There, but for the grace of God go I, etc... You got caught in this; finish it like a man. I'm praying and pulling for you.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 4:09:35 PM EDT
I agree fight this all the way. We are willing to help you however we can. I don't make much but I am more than willing to send what I can your way. If you beat them at their own game it makes everyone feel better. After all you make them look like idiots and you show them you are not afraid of them. So by all means accept our help and kick their @$$'s. R4M
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 5:45:21 PM EDT
oneshot: I agree with the above posts re: your accepting funds. We've never met face to face, but your reputation here is that you're a good, honest, hardworking family man. That means a lot in my book. I think you're being shafted and I would like to help out. A secondary (and selfish, as previously posted) reason is that the RKBA crowd needs to remind people, politicians, cops, etc., that they aren't going to lay down. We'll fight for our rights. Just as we collectively come together to discuss our love of firearms on this board, we come together to help preserve the rights associated with their ownership through advocacy. I hate to say it, but you may need some advocacy $$ in the near future. And sometimes the best defense is a good offense. So, accept donations "for us." Us stepping in to help you may be a small battle. After all, you're not up on bogus homicide charges stemming from a legitimate self-defense shooting. I hope and pray that no one here is ever in that situation, but not many of us can come up with the tens of thousands of dollars needed to successfully defend a case like that. It may be easy for me to deny donations on a misdemeanor charge, but I'm not so certain I could be that righteous if I was facing a life term. Still, we need to fight all the battles. One more RKBA victory just adds to the one before. Maybe someday the Second Amendment will be as protected as the First. I hope you reconsider. This all may be academic when you win the Mapp hearing [;)], but keep and open mind and let's reassess after that. Keep in mind that you might end up moving to a state that has CHL's and a misdemeanor conviction may prevent you from getting a license. Good luck man, we're all thinking of and praying for you.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 5:49:02 PM EDT
Oneshot, I could of been in your shoes on an unlucky day (along with any other "black rifle" owner). Please reconsider you're stance on the acceptance of money donated for you're defence. I would not consider it a donation, but an investment on our freedom. Have you contacted the N.R.A or any other pro gun organization?
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