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Posted: 1/10/2002 8:33:45 PM EDT
is this stuff only illegal here in commiefornia or throughout the us???
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 8:35:40 PM EDT
It was never banned in the USA. Winchester voluntarily stoped selling it to civilians to take the wind out of the antis sails.
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 8:38:25 PM EDT
anyone know the going price for .45acp?
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 9:27:24 PM EDT
Incidentally, even though they stopped making black talon, they are still making Winchester Ranger SXT which is actually black talon. Same wicked sharp talons, new innocuous, non-threatening, plain white box. We just shot a half dozen through some water filled milk jugs last month and they're beautiful :-) crashburnrepeat
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 9:32:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 9:34:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 9:35:03 PM EDT
I've seen .45 Black Talon for $27 per box of 20.
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 9:40:03 PM EDT
CrashburnRepeat is right on the mark, WW did agree to stop making the 'black talon' but a quick name change is all it took to make the bullet pc. Dont spent the extra on the name get the same bullet frm the same mfg POST BAN buy buying the sxt...pat
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 12:49:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 2:25:57 AM EDT
From [url]http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/5866/db_blacktalon.html[/url]:
Winchester Black Talon Revisited There appears to be continuing confusion surrounding the different versions of the Black Talon bullet, its legality for possession by private citizens, as well as its alleged "cop-killer bullet" armor-piercing capability. Here's the lowdown: Black Talon SXT: The original Black Talon handgun bullet. It was introduced in 1991. The cartridge consists of a black colored bullet seated in a nickel-plated case. The black paint-like coating on the bullet is a Winchester proprietary lubricant called Lubalox. The bullet has six serrations on the rim of the hollowpoint cavity (meplat), and six talons. The talons deploy when the bullet expands. They are described by Winchester as: "six uniform, radial jacket petals with perpendicular tips." Winchester voluntarily discontinued sales of Black Talon SXT to the general public in late 1993/early 1994 due to intense negative media and political pressure. Some political activists derisively referred to it as "Black Felon" ammo. Black Talon is packaged in boxes of 20 cartridges. Ranger SXT: Ranger SXT is a less expensive version of the original Black Talon cartridge intended for the law enforcement market. It consists of a black Lubalox coated bullet seated in a brass case. The bullet has six serrations on its meplat, and six talons. Ranger SXT is packaged in boxes of 50 cartridges marked "Law Enforcement Ammunition." Supreme SXT: Redesigned "civilian" version of the original Black Talon bullet. The cartridge consists of a copper-jacketed bullet seated in a nickel-plated case. The bullet has eight serrations on its meplat, and no talons. Supreme SXT is packaged in boxes of 20 cartridges.
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Link Posted: 1/11/2002 2:27:46 AM EDT
Cont'd:
According to Olin-Winchester public relations, the Supreme SXT bullet design has not been factory tested in standard ordnance gelatin because it was not designed to meet police ammunition performance specifications. As a result, there's no valid and verifiable performance data available from Winchester or the FBI. We find Winchester's attitude troubling because they're marketing a personal defense bullet (a life safety device) in which they confessed to us that they've no idea how well (or poorly) it performs. Therefore, we advise you not to buy and use Supreme SXT until Winchester gets its act together and coughs up performance data for this cartridge. Ranger Talon: The second generation version of the original Black Talon SXT bullet. The cartridge consists of a copper-jacketed bullet seated in a nickel-plated case. The bullet has six serrations on its meplat, and six talons. Ranger Talon is packaged in boxes of 50 cartridges marked "Law Enforcement Ammunition." There is no Federal law that prohibits a private citizen from purchasing or possessing any of the Black Talon bullet variants. Additionally, there is no Federal law, which forbids private possession and use of "law enforcement" handgun ammunition, except specifically defined armor-piercing handgun ammunition. Black Talon, Ranger SXT and Ranger Talon do not meet the criteria for armor-piercing handgun ammunition as defined by Federal law. However, there may be State or local laws that ban private possession of Black Talon and its variants. The negative media frenzy of late 1993 produced untrue assertions that Black Talon was an armor-piercing "cop-killer" bullet. We've fired both 9mm and .40 S&W Black Talon bullets into threat level IIA soft body armor and the armor easily stopped the bullets. The "armor-piercing" myth may have originated from the markings used on certain military small-arms ammunition. U.S. military cartridges with a black painted tip indicates the bullet is armor-piercing. (Federal Nyclad ammunition is often mistaken as armor-piercing ammunition too, due to the blue-black nylon coating on the lead bullet.) The black Lubalox coating on the Black Talon bullet is meant to reduce in-bore friction and chamber pressure. Once the bullet leaves the muzzle, the mission of the coating is completed. Lubalox does not give the bullet any special property that allows it to blast through police soft body armor.
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Big_Bear is right. What evidence there is suggests that the SXT bullet is no better than any other hollowpoint. Excellent market hype, though, to still be drawing attention like this after 1994.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 2:57:08 AM EDT
I am issued this stuff (as Winchester Ranger SXT, T-series). Haven't had any problems with it, and I have shot several thousand rounds of it in 9mm, .40 and .45 and have had no problems. We still occaisionally get a box that says "Ranger Talon" or sometimes find boxes of 9mm or .45 that have the brass case/black projectile. Winchester Ranger runs about $25 for a box of 50 in .45. I buy one box a year for my back-up gun. Winchester makes you swear an affidavit that you will not give any of their ammo to a non-LE person. Whatever. I have seen huge lots of Winchester Ranger on clearance at some dealers becuase they had too much around.
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