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Posted: 1/7/2002 7:55:32 AM EDT
I briefly heard this on Fox news, so I could be full of sh*t, but is the army now allowing civillians do enlist directly into the Green Berets??? WTF? I hope it's not true. Can anyone confirm this?
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 8:01:29 AM EDT
Total fucking bullshit. You need YEARS of service just to get into the Q course.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 8:03:05 AM EDT
Beats me. Though Historically the Army did "enlist" civilians into "Special Forces": they employed Indian Scouts during the Indian Wars in the Western States 100+ years ago.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 8:03:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE: Total fucking bullshit. You need YEARS of service just to get into the Q course.
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Thank God. Thats the way it should be for all special forces. Thanks for lowering my blood preesure! [:)]
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 8:05:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97: Beats me. Though Historically the Army did "enlist" civilians into "Special Forces": they employed Indian Scouts during the Indian Wars in the Western States 100+ years ago.
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Even at THAT time, the scouts were treated like shit, and were only used out of necessity. They were hardly "special"
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 8:20:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97: Beats me. Though Historically the Army did "enlist" civilians into "Special Forces": they employed Indian Scouts during the Indian Wars in the Western States 100+ years ago.
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Even at THAT time, the scouts were treated like shit, and were only used out of necessity. They were hardly "special"
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Of course they were treated like sh_t! After all most Scouts were Indians, who frequently were not considered to be human beings. Though General Crook had different opinions of them. Who better to gather intelligence against an enemy in unfamilier terrain than a native ? General Crook was successful agains Geronimo and other waring Indian Tribes chiefly because he gathered as much Intel as he could with the Indian Scouts, before he sent troops into an area. You can readily see the similarities of using Special Forces groups as a means of gathering Intel to direct Air Strikes against an enemy. Using Human intel allows for great precision and selectivity. Using Bombers instead of Infantry allows for a Maximizing the Principle of Economy of Force. (ie. it is the most efficient means of locating and killing the enemy).
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 9:05:37 AM EDT
I thought you had to be a Sgt. to go to the Q course.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 9:18:53 AM EDT
They are allowing recruitment to the Assesment phase right off of the streets so that they can find more applicants (they seem to have found themselves in need of more operators of late, if you can imagine that). It does not mean that they are lowering their selection criteria. If you make it through assesment (SFAS), you will be an NCO by the time you get to the Q. Of course you can be a Green beret, even if you are a civilian, provided you have the intestinal fortitude required to complete the training. Same as it always has been. High Performance Tactical Gear! [url]www.Lightfighter.com[/url]
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 9:20:00 AM EDT
Yall are all ate up! First off, not all special ops are Special Forces. Special Forces is the offical designation of the Army "Green Barets". The Special Forces were created by JFK, so Indian scouts could not have been Special Forces, but were "special ops". Secondly, you must be promotable to sergeant, i.e. specialist, to be considered for Special Forces. [sniper]
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 9:20:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MarineGrunt: I briefly heard this on Fox news, so I could be full of sh*t, but is the army now allowing civillians do enlist directly into the Green Berets??? WTF? I hope it's not true. Can anyone confirm this?
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Haven't seen this on Fox. Confirm this as true, BUT!! Entry soldiers with the SF option will have to meet a LOT of prereqs with regards to education, test scores, APFT scores, ROTC/JROTC/Eagle Socuts, etc. They will go to Basic and AIT, Airborne School, and the SFQC precourse before going to SFQC Phase I (SFAssessment and Selection). Then they will go through precourse again before attending Phase II (the old Phase I). Another trip to the precourse before attending Phase III (MOS Training). Again to the precourse before attending Phase IV (Robin Sage). Followed by language school and SERE. PLDC and BNCOC fits in here somewhere. Should take at least 24 months and the Initial Entry soldiers should be E-5s before arriving on a team. This initiative is expected to gain about 200 more SF personnel per year, beginning to arrive on teams in FY 04. Hell, I went through the SFQC in 1984 with E-2s, who went to teams in my company as E-3s.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 11:32:51 AM EDT
It is just a simple recognition that the gap between what is demanded physically and mentally of a soldier in a line unit has become vastly less than what is demanded of SpecOps operators. When you add the time it takes to retrain, and shake the rust off from garrison duty, they might as well start with someone strait from initial entry. Besides, a simple survey of the existing memebers of the Special Forces community probably would have found that most of them always intended to go special ops from the begining anyways! Since they have to go through all of the same schools on the way, their performance should not be any less.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 12:48:43 PM EDT
[b]Don't they mean [i]BLACK[/i] beret?[/b] [;D]
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 12:59:45 PM EDT
Allowing recruits to enlist and head directly toward the assessment phase is just another recuriter's ploy. It's a nice carrot to dangle in front of an unsure 18 year old, particularly during highly publicized SF operations. It won't pan out. Sure enough, these "operators" will find themselves in line infantry or other roles, just as any other soldier.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 1:11:03 PM EDT
That's obviously true 99% of the time, yet I'm sure there's no shortage of kids eager to sign up. In the Nav, after passing the PT tests and interviews, you could find yourself in BUD/S after just 8 weeks of Boot Camp and 4 weeks of Sea/Air/Fireman apprentice training. Candidates that drop out of training for any reason (ie: an injury) still owe Uncle Sugar whatever is left of their 4 year contract (probably assigned to one of the more glamarous jobs that USN E2's get).
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 1:34:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SF:
Originally Posted By MarineGrunt: I briefly heard this on Fox news, so I could be full of sh*t, but is the army now allowing civillians do enlist directly into the Green Berets??? WTF? I hope it's not true. Can anyone confirm this?
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Haven't seen this on Fox. Confirm this as true, BUT!! Entry soldiers with the SF option will have to meet a LOT of prereqs with regards to education, test scores, APFT scores, ROTC/JROTC/Eagle Socuts, etc. They will go to Basic and AIT, Airborne School, and the SFQC precourse before going to SFQC Phase I (SFAssessment and Selection). Then they will go through precourse again before attending Phase II (the old Phase I). Another trip to the precourse before attending Phase III (MOS Training). Again to the precourse before attending Phase IV (Robin Sage). Followed by language school and SERE. PLDC and BNCOC fits in here somewhere. Should take at least 24 months and the Initial Entry soldiers should be E-5s before arriving on a team. This initiative is expected to gain about 200 more SF personnel per year, beginning to arrive on teams in FY 04. Hell, I went through the SFQC in 1984 with E-2s, who went to teams in my company as E-3s.
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This isn´t the first time, remember SF babies..i believe in the Vietnam era there was a similar thing.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 1:37:53 PM EDT
Read these threads for info on the 18X option [url]http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12343[/url] [url]http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12340[/url]
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 3:44:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2002 3:46:49 PM EDT by SF]
Originally Posted By CPL_Punishment:
Originally Posted By Tuukka: Read these threads for info on the 18X option [url]http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12343[/url] [url]http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12340[/url]
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OMG, whats next? correspondence courses?
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Believe it or not, the SF Correspondence Course ended less than 10 years ago. We still took Rep 63s (reservists) as initial entry guys with Basic/AIT or OSUT and jump school till recently. I served with SF babies and was not impressed. It makes about as much since as letting a SSG(P) or SFC attend, knowing he will have less than two years on a team before he is eligible to be team sergeant. The rationale for this appears to be that we are very short on 18s and the Army is too small to get many more quality guys into the pipeline right now. We have to get the SF units filled up again before the Army has to cut some force structure. Otherwise, SF is just as likely to pay the bill as anyone else. Or maybe not, since the recent crisis, but that was the logic behind this move. Tuukka: You are correct, we had SF babies in VN, as well as letting guys get constructive credit for some or all of the SFQC.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 3:50:00 PM EDT
I was once headed for the University of Alabama to play big-time college football. Then they told me I was too small, too slow and didn't have any talent. Maybe it's time for the SF.............? [smoke]
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 6:06:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: I was once headed for the University of Alabama to play big-time college football. Then they told me I was too small, too slow and didn't have any talent. Maybe it's time for the SF.............? [smoke]
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Brother 5subslr5: A recruiter near you is standing by. The boys running SFAS out at Camp Mackall are waiting, just sign there on the dotted line, no need to prepare, they'll teach you everything you need to know!
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 6:37:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SF:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: I was once headed for the University of Alabama to play big-time college football. Then they told me I was too small, too slow and didn't have any talent. Maybe it's time for the SF.............? [smoke]
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Brother 5subslr5: ..... they'll teach you everything you need to know!
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I knew there had to be a catch ! I don't know anything and don't want to have to learn anything. (Tell me these guys aren't like the Marines are they ?? Marines go.....camping, eat stuff out of envelopes, schitt in the woods......) [smoke]
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 6:52:05 PM EDT
5subslr5: No, my brother, our motto is "Max per Diem", we get lots of sexy black velcro toys to play with and we hang close to the Air Force, cause they got the planes (to get home), real money, and commandeer all of the finest hotel rooms available! Garcon, I feel like a spot of lunch and a fine Merlot, please. And be quick about it!
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 6:59:13 PM EDT
I knew there had to be a catch ! I don't know anything and don't want to have to learn anything. (Tell me these guys aren't like the Marines are they ?? Marines go.....camping, eat stuff out of envelopes, schitt in the woods......)
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ROTFLMAO!! Especially about the "camping" bit! OMG, that was almost too much! Isn't there a "ribs hurting from laughing" icon around here?
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