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Posted: 1/6/2002 12:17:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2002 12:18:32 PM EDT by LARRYG]
It's on now. Very interesting. Timed rounds, etc. It is also talking about OICW.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 12:20:34 PM EDT
"I'll take one of everything in that there museum they're at" [:D]
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 12:23:57 PM EDT
Hell, they are showing all kinds of stuff. Right now they are showing the new class of sniper rifles. The stock is very similar to the Choate Ultimate Sniper stock.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 12:25:56 PM EDT
Thanks LarryG for the post! I'm watching it right now!! [:D]
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 12:27:29 PM EDT
The morons who came up with the idea need to hump the system in the field with a full combat load for two weeks. I can see the M16/M4 or G36 systems with an M203-type under-barrel grenade launcher, but that monstrosity is somebody's Hollywood nightmare.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 12:30:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_G: The morons who came up with the idea need to hump the system in the field with a full combat load for two weeks. I can see the M16/M4 or G36 systems with an M203-type under-barrel grenade launcher, but that monstrosity is somebody's Hollywood nightmare.
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I have thought that myself. It seems like a lot of weight to be lugging in the field. It probably weighs far more than the old M1 or M14 and the M16/M4 system was designed to get away from all the weight. Go figure.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 12:32:50 PM EDT
Yeah but, You and your AG wont need to hump any ammo a 36 round can will solve any problem that might try to overrun your position--yeah right! For now Ill still take the Ma-deuce. at least until they devlop the air burst mini nuke round.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 12:48:56 PM EDT
OICW is a POS. Evaluated it for USSOCOM a couple of years ago. Not only clunky and heavy, but ask about battery life. Terrible, expensive, and heavy. No thanks!
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 12:51:30 PM EDT
The goal is get this high tech weapons going! Mini Nuke ten years ago i would laugh at this but today they problably have designs already!
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 1:27:52 PM EDT
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it weighs about as much as an M240B.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 2:37:03 PM EDT
The stock is very similar to the Choate Ultimate Sniper stock.
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I know the gentleman that designed this stock, he's been in the gun shop many times. He lives in my hometown about 30 miles from where I live now. Very friendly person, he's my son's "hero". He gave my son an autographed copy of his latest book just a few weeks ago. He's the ultimate [sniper]
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 4:12:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2002 4:13:00 PM EDT by raven]
Yeah, the OICW is pretty silly, but that OCSW gun was incredible! [img]http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/ocsw_atd.jpg[/img] It's 25mm with the smart laser-ranging and computer determined proximity fuse, but the thing is a crew-served weapon like a Mk-19 or M2HB; except much lighter (44 lbs) less recoil (so the tripod doesn't need to be sandbagged) and can airburst to get enemies who are behind cover.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 4:40:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Glock_Head:
The stock is very similar to the Choate Ultimate Sniper stock.
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I know the gentleman that designed this stock, he's been in the gun shop many times. He lives in my hometown about 30 miles from where I live now. Very friendly person, he's my son's "hero". He gave my son an autographed copy of his latest book just a few weeks ago. He's the ultimate [sniper]
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umm, did I miss something? what Is the mans name? name of his book?
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 5:40:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 7IDL:
Originally Posted By Glock_Head:
The stock is very similar to the Choate Ultimate Sniper stock.
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I know the gentleman that designed this stock, he's been in the gun shop many times. He lives in my hometown about 30 miles from where I live now. Very friendly person, he's my son's "hero". He gave my son an autographed copy of his latest book just a few weeks ago. He's the ultimate [sniper]
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umm, did I miss something? what Is the mans name? name of his book?
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umm, it's John Plaster. The book is entitled: SOG The secret wars of America's Commandos in Vietnam. nuff???
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:36:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_G: Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it weighs about as much as an M240B.
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GDR99 [img]http://www.global-defence.com/weapons/images/wep12_2.jpg[/img] FROM: [url]http://www.global-defence.com/weapons/weapons12.htm[/url]
The fielded OICW is required to weigh less than 14 pounds, including 30 rounds of 5.56mm KE ammunition and at least eight rounds of 20mm HE ammunition. By comparison add-ons to the M203 system to provide limited fire-control capability bring its weight to slightly less than 20 pounds.
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Janes says this system is in deployment and I've seen spent 20mm cases. so hrmmmmm......
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:48:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Instant_Karma:
Originally Posted By Dave_G: Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it weighs about as much as an M240B.
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GDR99
The fielded OICW is required to weigh less than 14 pounds, including 30 rounds of 5.56mm KE ammunition and at least eight rounds of 20mm HE ammunition. By comparison add-ons to the M203 system to provide limited fire-control capability bring its weight to slightly less than 20 pounds.
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Janes says this system is in deployment and I've seen spent 20mm cases. so hrmmmmm......
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They hadn't made weight, last time I heard. The weight and cost comparison is usually to the M16A3, w/M203, w/optical sight, w/THERMAL SIGHT, and a partridge in a pear tree. Makes the comparison look better, get it? The ammo has not made the requirement, and the battery pack weights over a pound and lasts less than 24 hours. The cost was over $20,000 ($43,000 last I heard), so the army wasn't even going to be able to buy enough to equip all of the active duty infantry units. I think that Jane's said it was in "development", not "deployment". The 20mm cases are for real. Sorry, but I don't think a guy in a 75 lb., $250,000 "land Warrior" get up who requires 15 lbs of resupply a day, at the front, plus ammo is really going to be the force of the future. Great testbed for new tech, and something may eventually come out of it, but we ain't close to practical use yet.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 8:28:03 PM EDT
The way the current war is going, its putting a knife into the OICW project. Its obvious that light forces cant afford to be stuck with a weapon that heavy. The ONE part of the OICW that has a future is the IIR sight with integral laser ranger. It will fit to anything with a Picitinny rail. Janes may be right in regards to the deployment of the sight unit, some of the special ops people might indeed have it, but mounted on M16's or M4's. Yes it eats batteries and is heavy, but it can also be used to get proper range and azmuth for calling in artillery and air strikes simply by sighting on to a target and then reading the range/bearing to your RTO. Oh, and the ability to shoot around corners with the optional helmet mounted monitor is well thought of too.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 8:28:03 PM EDT
FROM: [url]http://www.hkpro.com/oicw.htm[/url]
Very basically, the U.S. military wanted a weapon system that mates a conventional rifle with a 20mm "cannon" that is capable of delivering a special munition that can be user set to explode with an airburst at user determined and programmable ranges. What looks like an M16 underneath should give you pause to look closer. It is a variant of the HK G36K, with an M16 magazine adapter! This is something that HK promises for the conventional G36 series as well. The selector switch and the flash hider are the G36K variant giveaway. Proof once again that when the military needs something on the cutting edge, HK is the logical choice. A bargain price for the military? $10,000 to $12,000 each, and $25-$30 a pop for the 20mm ammunition. The military plans an initial order of 45,000 units, and for them to be fielded with special units by 2006.
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[img]http://www.hkpro.com/oicwammo.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hkpro.com/oicwstripped.jpg[/img] I'm fairly certain Janes says 'deployment' but my dyslexia has been rather bad recently.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 8:44:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2002 8:51:15 PM EDT by SF]
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: The way the current war is going, its putting a knife into the OICW project. Its obvious that light forces cant afford to be stuck with a weapon that heavy. The ONE part of the OICW that has a future is the IIR sight with integral laser ranger. It will fit to anything with a Picitinny rail. Janes may be right in regards to the deployment of the sight unit, some of the special ops people might indeed have it, but mounted on M16's or M4's. Yes it eats batteries and is heavy, but it can also be used to get proper range and azmuth for calling in artillery and air strikes simply by sighting on to a target and then reading the range/bearing to your RTO. Oh, and the ability to shoot around corners with the optional helmet mounted monitor is well thought of too.
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It's not just the weapon weight, and the battery weight, but the weight of consumption. None of the SF units in theater got a daily resupply run by the helicopter or truck with the battery fairy. Resupply was at least 3-7 days apart. I haven't seen any SF unit with any components from the OICW yet, and I am in one. Maybe the USAF has it. Last time I checked, the distance and az to the target wasn't much good without your own pos info, which I do not believe it provides without the rest of the LW suite. Finally, the helmet mounted monitor is part of the Land Warrior package also with the extra weight and battery requirement.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 8:49:25 PM EDT
Here's the OT&E for FY00 NOTE it’s unclassified. [url]http://www.dote.osd.mil/reports/FY00/army/00oicws.html[/url] I can’t help but think the FUE date was pushed ahead a bit. (but) Perhaps US troops weren’t the first to get these puppies. Given this quote maybe that’s a good thing.
During an ATD demonstration test in FY99, a high-explosive, airbursting munition experienced an ignition anomaly—causing personnel injury. A root cause analysis was completed in FY00, and a Milestone Ia decision has been scheduled for 1QFY02, to ensure that adequate fixes have been implemented before continuing through PDRR.
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Link Posted: 1/6/2002 8:56:30 PM EDT
Could be fielded to a real special unit. We don't have 'em and don't teach 'em. The accident occurred while we were trying to determine our requirements for SOCOM. Unless someone changed my reply, it was zero. 2006 for production looks real good. I should be retired by then!
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 9:12:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2002 9:16:23 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
I am watching the video that Tukka posted of the SAS guys at Mazur e Sharief... I cant imagine them hauling a giant boat anchor like that around... What more could you ask a gun to do that the M4 doesnt already?? SF, I assumed that the RTO would have the GPS. No thermal imagers around your place you say? Hummm... that is the one part that seemed to be most useful and worth keeping...
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