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Posted: 1/6/2002 5:50:10 AM EDT
We have narrowed it down to 4 models for a new 2 year lease. What do you all think? Any words of wisdom from owners?
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 5:59:32 AM EDT
All are rice burners except the Jeep so you won't be interested in my opinion on the vehicles! Why lease? Cost is more than buy. Just my .02 worth.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 6:03:53 AM EDT
Have owned both Subaru and Toyota products with excellent results. Can't go wrong with either one.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 6:05:03 AM EDT
Subarus are built in Indiana. I agree on the Nipponshid but the Jeeps are gas hawgs. I do like the retro style of the front end of the Liberty. I think it is a throwback to the old Willys headlamp style. I am so burned on GMC and Chevs in general. Always hated Ford since every one we ever owned died a quick death. I was really up on Dodge until the Daimler debacle. Now I am just a lost pup in the woods trying to balance patriotism, value for the money, and the wife's insatiable desire to keep up with the other girls at the nail parlor.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 6:07:33 AM EDT
This being his wife's vehicle I would get the Subaru Outback, very nice interior, great all wheel drive system, but very pricey with all the goodies. As far as the others, the Rav 4 is a joke, and Jeeps reliability is a proven deterant. The Xterra is just decent, kind of. If your wanting to go with Japanese brands why not look at the new Honda SUV, much better than the Xterra. Just my .02 cents. Bill3508
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 6:15:02 AM EDT
MickeyMouse All are rice burners except the Jeep
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Actually, Subaru is an Australian company. Agree with the lease statement though. Might as well buy it outright and save a couple grand. I'd go with the Outback :)
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 6:35:23 AM EDT
My 2 cents: Don't lease. It is a rip off.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 6:42:15 AM EDT
I bought my wife another Subaru, it's her second one actually. Goes better in the snow than my Suburban.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 6:42:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:11:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MDOhmart: Actually, Subaru is an Australian company. Agree with the lease statement though. Might as well buy it outright and save a couple grand. I'd go with the Outback :)
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Oh yeah! Doesn't Crocodile Dundee own them or something? You moron.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:17:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MDOhmart:
MickeyMouse Actually, Subaru is an Australian company. Agree with the lease statement though. Might as well buy it outright and save a couple grand. I'd go with the Outback :)
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Turn off the television. Pick up a newspaper (preferably the Wall Street Journal). The manufacturing company is SIA (Subaru-Isuzu America). Sheesh.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:37:33 AM EDT
I only keep my vehicles as long as the original warranty is in effect. No more than 3-4yrs. If you keep your vehicles for that length of time then leasing is the best way to go. Three year leases are the best way to go. As far as which vehicle to lease. Stay away from the Liberty, safety issues alone should knock it out of contention. You need to get the one with the highest resale value. That usually precludes one from leasing A Big 3 auto. Unless of course the lease is underwritten by the manufacturer and are offering exceptional terms. Patriotism only goes so far in relation to leasing. I wouldn't pay more for a Mercury Sable than an Acura TL, would you? At one time the rates were equivalent. Now Ford is subventing with an aggressive lease deal and is now more competitive.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:39:25 AM EDT
E) None of the above.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:42:09 AM EDT
I'm sure you've done the math and figured out what is best for you, but I leased my last Pickup and will never do it again. When the lease was up, I had to either buy the truck at the residual cost, or turn it in and start all over again with nothing to show for the last 4 years of lease payments. Since the residual cost was less than what it would have cost to buy a similar vehicle, I ended up buying the truck...so I'll end up paying on the same truck for six years before I own it. Ouch!!
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:42:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:43:48 AM EDT
Oh yeah, and rice factor aside...I like the Toyota.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:47:56 AM EDT
Dont lease anything.Leaseing a truck was the biggest mistake i ever made.Sure its a tax right off but thats it.You have to keep u pall maintance to the dealers spec.You also have to leave the vehicle stock.You cant alter it in any way.Think of it as renting an apartment that you have to fork out the cash for all the repairs.When it comes time to leave you getting nothing in return.Least if you bu you can sell it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:56:55 AM EDT
I bought a 2001 Isuzu rodeo (made in Indiana) leasing wasnt the thing for me. I looked at the Liberty, wasnt for me, besides, it's all yuppied out. [puke] Subaru wasnt what I wanted either, needed something to pull a small utility trailer. here's a thought... What does the little woman want????
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 8:02:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2002 8:03:43 AM EDT by semiauto]
Originally Posted By Paul: Don't lease, buy.
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I agree with Paul. Leasing is one of the worst options available to you unless you have a business use for the vehicle and will be writting it off. Leasing only guarantees you a forever car payment, with the very real possibility of additional costs for extra mileage or damage/wear when you turn the car in just to acquire another 3-4 years of payments. Most vehicles properly maintained will go 10 years with no trouble, so that's 3-4 years of payments, then 6-7 years you can put that money towards something else (like more guns [:D]). Who wants perpetual car payments?
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 8:05:27 AM EDT
Nothing wrong with leasing a car. Here's the general rule: Buy things that hold or increase in value. (Like your home) Lease things that depreciate quickly. (Like your car) The trouble with buying a car is that they depreciate faster than you pay them off. I'm in that situation now with my 97 Grand Cherokee. Oh, and all you Jeep reliability bashers, I've only had one problem since I've owned it, from 50k - 70k. Had to replace a front CV axle, and that could have been prevented by inspecting the boot. (Which was in fact torn.)
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 8:08:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: All are rice burners except the Jeep so you won't be interested in my opinion on the vehicles! Why lease? Cost is more than buy. Just my .02 worth.
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actually it's the other way around now. Nissan, Subaru have plants in the US. Not sure on Toyota, but they may also. The Jeep Liberty is probably made in Mexico and it is small!!
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 8:17:09 AM EDT
I actually worked at the plant where the Subaru Legacys were made. I now work for Chrysler. Please at least buy a product thats made in the USA. Having said that my Jeeps have been stone reliable and never left me sitting. I had one minor recall on my '99 Grand Cherkee (the best riding, driving SUV I owned untill I traded it for the new '02) but nothing else. As far as Subaru being owned by the Aussies, put down the crack pipe. Its Jap, and having seen firsthand the way they treat thier workers and work them into the ground then put 'em out to pature on disabilaty I cant recomend them or the Isuzu Rodeo which is made at the SAME plant in Indiana. Remember the Honda Passport? A Rodeo rebadged. I have watched japs stand over workers with stopwatches and try to shave 1 or 2 seconds off of a job that already has cuased shoulder and wrist injuries. Yup, the japs charge less cause they work thier people like dogs. Unfortunatly the UAW shops have swung the pendulem to far the other way. A comon reply to a request to work in a UAW plant by a supervisor to an employee is "Its not my job". Sorry for the lenght but I still say buy American, not transplant.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 8:18:22 AM EDT
My buddy just bought the subaru outback limited and loves it. 4 doors, hatchback, plenty of room for the kids, safety features all over the place, and it gets good gas mileage plus allwheel drive.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 9:21:53 AM EDT
First off you are only looking at two suv's the other two are xuv's (they have no low range in the t-case) Sorry personal thing here about the new all wheel drive cars. Any how my wife has driven a 90 cherokee for years it has 175,000 on it and no major problems whatsoever. have replaced alternator, water pump, fuel pump, and harmonic balancer. The rest of the maintanence has been standard tune ups breaks etc. Basically if you don't need low range go with one of the cars if you do need it look at the suv's. Also I personally would not lease to me it is just throwing away money.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 9:34:45 AM EDT
I used my Tahoe to pull an Outback from a mudhole (after I drove around him), so... Eddie
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 9:37:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MDOhmart:
MickeyMouse All are rice burners except the Jeep
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Actually, Subaru is an Australian company. Agree with the lease statement though. Might as well buy it outright and save a couple grand. I'd go with the Outback :)
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Actually you are wrong, and MDOhmart is right. Subaru is japanese. Don't beleive me? this is from their website.
Subaru of America, Inc., (SOA), is the exclusive United States marketer of Subaru products manufactured by Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. of Japan.
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Link Posted: 1/6/2002 9:44:43 AM EDT
Hi Ben. If you/wife are the type that likes new cars evert couple of years, leasing is a great way to go. With that said, reliability issues should be secondary as any of those cars should get you through the 2 years without a problem. If financial matters are important, I would consider the toyota rav as it has the highest resale value and thus higher residual value at the end of your lease. Translation=relatively lower monthly payments. But you should really have her go out and drive/look at all of them. Girls are funny in their taste for cars. I've driven all except the Jeep. If it was for me, I'd take the X-terra (rugged, reliable, good off road abilities). But they are quite truck like and she might not be into that. If safety/crashworthiness is a concern at all, go with the toyota. If I was buying something for the wife, I'd definately get the toyota, (dead reliable, looks good/cute, easy to drive) the new ones are quite nice.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 11:08:51 AM EDT
BUY THE JEEP!! I've owned the outback sport, what a POS! Dumped it before the warranty expired, 3 computer modules, paint flaking, water leaks. Mileage was aweful at 23-25 mpg. My wife and I own two jeeps, a cherokee and wrangler, we both get at least 20 mpg on a bad day and thats with lift, large tires. A few aftermarket goodies can net you alot more power and mileage. The liberties new engine should net you even better milegage. As for safety I saw a liberty that was on a test drive get in a three car pileup. It was in the center of the wreck, chevy 1/2 ton behind the liberty was totalled, expedition in front of liberty had some damage. The liberty sustained smashed front and rear bumpers and a crease in the hood but held up great. As for jeeps reliablity issues that someone brought up, i've owned two with no problems and know alot of other people who love them as well. I would not hesitate to go after the libery or find a new cherokee if anyone still has one left on the lot. I've got a friend who has the Xterra, she gets at the best, 16 mpg. As for the toyota i have no actual experience. idaho-ar15
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 11:27:32 AM EDT
Oh one more thing. Check out. www.epinions.com Lots of personal experiences there. [beer]
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 11:36:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 12:05:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2002 12:10:52 PM EDT by Francisco_dAnconia]
Outback. They handle well, even on snow, and are reliable. I didn't care for the Xterra when I test drove one. Off list I would recommend looking at the Durango, Grand Cherokee, and Tahoe. They have V8 engines and 'real' 4WD. They are a bit more expensive though. I don't get the mention of patriotism in regards to buying a car. Deliberately making a sub-optimal purchase is foolish not patriotic. Francisco BTW "sport SUV" is redundant.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 12:10:59 PM EDT
Lease = long term rental. You might as well rent from Enterprise/Alamo and save on registration & maint cost.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 12:14:04 PM EDT
My wife is about to BUY the Liberty...I have the Grand Cherokee and love it! I test drove the Liberty with her..very quiet and smooth. It has the weight of my GC so it drives just as smooth. It does'nt get the great gas mileage either. BUT,it is a Jeep and is a well built. I would personally recommend the Grand Cherokee. Go Jeep... [b][blue]NAKED[/blue][/b]
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 1:02:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2002 1:03:37 PM EDT by semiauto]
Originally Posted By AR15fan: Lease = long term rental. You might as well rent from Enterprise/Alamo and save on registration & maint cost.
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AR15fan: Well said! I've watched my daughter and her husband get burned twice now by leases. They finally wised up (and saved enough for a decent down payment) to buy a car that will be theirs in 3 years... and 0% financing to boot!
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 1:14:38 PM EDT
Check the ratings and test results at www.consumerreports.org. Check the crash test results at www.iihs.org. Check the government crash test results at www.nhtsa.gov. Jeep just ran a commercial where a Grand Cherokee owner rescued a couple of deer from camouflaged hunters. "There, you're safe now" said the driver to the deer, as he untied it from the vehicle. What an absolute affront, insult, and stupid marketing vehicle!!!
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 1:57:32 PM EDT
I don't see the point in buying a car these days. Unless you keep your cars forever and are able do the maintenance yourself. Unfortunately, today's vehicles are too complicated for most consumers. Even though it would be nice not to have any payments. Consider the fact that most people opt for 48-60 month loans, that means they're paying for a car that's worth 1/4 of it's original cost. While the Lessor is in a brand new vehicle and paying much less monthly. Also, when you're stuck at the side of the road in 6yr old car, I'll be passing you by in a brand new one. That peace of mind alone is well worth the slight premium of leasing. Only with the 0% finance deals you are seeing now may make it worth buying. Even so, I can always generate a good return or find better uses for the monies going towards a down payment and the extra monthly expense.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 2:30:11 PM EDT
a couple of months ago I went shopping for an SUV with my brother & test drove all four. The Subaru & Toyota are just Compact cars with all wheel drive(No transfer case or Low Range, Not cut out for real work, Or Deep Snow), They both drive & Handle good, But they are very small with no interior room at all. The Xterra is a good reliable SUV, But it,s underpowered, Crude & Rides Like crap(Also the dealer wanted 27K for it). The Jeep Liberty (Sport V6)was Powerful,Quiet, Has A transfer case, Suprisingly roomy interior (Lots of head room) & is "PRICED RIGHT" (21K). He bought the Liberty & Loves it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 2:49:33 PM EDT
Thanks for all the input. The one thing that really stuck with me was the Land Rover Freelander. I am checking it out.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 4:06:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2002 4:13:30 PM EDT by Sean_Burke]
If you are looking for a 4WD (have you considered a FWD car with traction control / stability control as am alternative?), then I'd recommend getting a 3 year-old model coming back off lease. Manufacturers took a beating overestimating the value of these vehicles when the original purchaser returned them after the lease expired. You can get a '98 or so Explorer / Tahoe / etc. for 17K or less. It's a buyer's market. Why the short period on the lease? Whay are thje lease payments on a 25K car over two years?
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 4:19:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2002 6:12:12 PM EDT by Texason]
I love my Nissan Xterra. They have higher standard ground clearance than any of those other vehicles. I know different makers have different measures of ground clearns, but I've been off roading (I got the 4x4 version) with Jeeps (Cherokees) and other pickups, the Xterra beats them all. I can do all the under-vehicle maintenance on the Xterra without even jacking it up, try that on a Cherokee. After extensive research from various sources, the Xterra gave you the most of everything for the least amount of money. The Xterra's cargo and cabin even feel bigger than the four-runner and pathfinder, both cost at least 5K more. Poke around [url]www.xterraownersclub.com[/url] and you'll find everything you need to know about them. In fact, if you do decide to get an Xterra, check back with me before you go to the dealer, there is a small issue you need to get the dealer to fix before you leave the lot. [IMG]http://users2.ev1.net/~texason/TX~Sand.jpg[/IMG]
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 4:41:19 PM EDT
In a wife's opinion, Let her drive them all. We had an Outback sport...what a piece. Don't believe that crap about when on ice, it transfers power from the wheels that slip to the wheels that grip. It doesn't work. It handled nicely in perfect conditions. That's the only good thing I have to say about it. It was worse in the snow than the 2wd mazda pickup we had at the time. I drove a Liberty, and if it was a bit larger, I believe we'd have one right now. It was just a bit too small for us, though. I haven't driven the other two.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 4:42:30 PM EDT
If you're considering leasing (or "fleecing", as radio financial advisor Dave Ramsey calls it), you're already asking the wrong question. Leasing is a sucker's bet, nothing more. Dealers push it as: 1. A way of getting customers into a new car every few years, and 2. A way of getting customers to drive cars without putting much money down. Furthermore, anyone that drives a car for less than 6 years before trading it in (whether leasing or buying it) is, to put it tactfully, mentally deficient on financial matters. People say, "Yes, but I [b]enjoy[/b] driving a new car every 3 years!" For all the financial sense that statement makes, they could just as well be saying "Yes, but I [/b]enjoy[/b] throwing away my money!" Best advice: Buy it used (perhaps when it comes off of some other sucker's lease), pay cash for it, and drive it till the wheels fall off. The money you save will easily pay for your next 6 vehicles.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 4:46:51 PM EDT
Check out the Chevy Trail Blazer, we have one and its awesome! -Marksman
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 6:59:08 PM EDT
SKIBANE, Well, I guess you have the answer, direct from Dave Ramsey himself. Yes, go right ahead and follow whatever his logic may be. While your at it, buy your clothes,furniture... at the Salvation Army and think about how much more you will save. Remember that while you're on the side of the road fixing your old clunker with duct tape in the clothes I donated 3yrs ago. I'll use my cell phone to call AAA for you as I drive by in my new car. But wait, AAA is a suckers deal, and why waste the money,right?
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:27:38 PM EDT
My brother-in-law is leasing a Ford Explorer. He has it for one more year, but he has used up all of his miles, and has to pay something like 11 pennies per mile. IMO, leasing is a rip-off.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:33:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BigZ: I'll use my cell phone to call AAA for you as I drive by in my new car. But wait, AAA is a suckers deal, and why waste the money,right?
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BIGZ, having a new car doesn't make you invisinble against the car gremlins, I've seen plenty of "new" cars pulled over on the side of the road with problems so I'll just give you a big wave as I go by with my PAID OFF jeep. idaho-ar15
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:53:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BigZ: I don't see the point in buying a car these days. Unless you keep your cars forever and are able do the maintenance yourself. Unfortunately, today's vehicles are too complicated for most consumers.
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Most consumers can't handle the electronics themselves, but they should be able to do most everything else. Certainly, they should be able to change their starter, alternator, etc. In any case, what is wrong with paying to have your car fixed? I have a 1988 Jeep Cherokee that just passed 267k miles. I bought it used with cash, and my yearly payment in repairs is very low. I do most repairs myself, but I go to the shop for things I can't handle, or when I have more money than time. My brother-in-law has a lease on a Ford Explorer. It has had problems, and his lease is way more expensive than my repair costs.
Originally Posted By BigZ: Also, when you're stuck at the side of the road in 6yr old car, I'll be passing you by in a brand new one. That peace of mind alone is well worth the slight premium of leasing.
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I suspect that many car problems occur in the first 50,000 miles. If you get past 50k, you probably won't see problems until 150k or so. New cars [i]do[/i] break down.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 8:15:47 PM EDT
idaho-ar15, Yes, that's true. It's extremely rare, but some new cars have problems. Watch out!!! I see you doing a roll-over in that PAID OFF Jeep of yours. Oh well, I hope you get the 2 cents the insurance company deems it's worth. Just can't stop thinking about all that insurance premium you paid. Again, I'll use my cellular to call an ambulance and tow for you. Good luck buying another new car with all that insurance money. DonS, There is nothing wrong with driving around in an old/used whatever. As for[b] ME[/b], I enjoy some other hobbies much more than playing Mr. Mechanic. I also don't buy into that 50k business. Engineered/built-in obsolescence is fact.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 8:41:14 PM EDT
[b]"...many car problems occur in the first 50,000 miles..."[/b] Among quality control people, that's often referred to as "infant mortality", and it's a very real phenomenon. You can buy a hell of a lot of car repairs with just one lease or car payment. And, if the car doesn't break, you get to put the money in the bank instead! My own 14-year-old, 160,000-mile vehicle required under well under $500 in repair and maintenance items last year, and that was one of the most expensive years since it was new. It's still very reliable (was only in the shop once and has never left me stranded anywhere). And that's not too ususual an example, in spite of what car salesmen would have you believe. What about depreciation? You are only subject to it if you sell it — yet another reason to keep it until the wheels fall off. A 10-year-old vehicle will lose less than a couple hundred dollars in value if you choose to drive it another year. Keeping it also saves the money you'd have to pay on sales tax and higher insurance. In short, unless your present vehicle is broken beyond repair, trading it in on another model (for either a lease or new car payments) almost never makes financial sense.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 8:56:00 PM EDT
Skibane, You make my point. For you, buying makes total sense. You can't steer your life using Financial sense at all times. Sometimes it pays to use some Common sense.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 9:50:38 PM EDT
Might I suggest you start with your replies?[;)]
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