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Posted: 1/3/2002 6:07:43 PM EDT
Looks like Darwin was at work again...eh? What a moron. A poster boy for gun control. Sheesh! ......................................... http://www.therecord.com/topstory_02010384216.html Woman loses arm in gun mishap Thursday January 3, 2002 Liz Monteiro RECORD STAFF Waterloo regional police Sgt. Rudy Smith holds a muzzle-loading rifle similar to the weapon that exploded this week, causing a 36-year-old woman to lose her arm. The other weapons were confiscated from the owner of the gun that caused the injury. A 36-year-old Cambridge woman had her left arm amputated just below the elbow after a rifle she was holding exploded in her hands Tuesday night. The woman, whose name was not released by police yesterday, was holding a 150-year-old, muzzle-loading flintlock rifle when the gunpowder in it ignited and the gun exploded, sending shrapnel in all directions. When Waterloo regional police arrived at the home -- east of Kitchener near Highway 7 and Shantz Station Road -- after 9 p.m., parts of her fingers were lying on the back porch. Shrapnel was found imbedded in the porch ceiling . Paramedics bandaged her hand and took the woman to Grand River Hospital. She was later transferred to St. Joseph's Health Centre in London where doctors unsuccessfully attempted to save her arm. Police removed about 20 rifles and ammunition from the home, owned by a 46-year-old man. Some of the firearms included a .22-calibre hunting rifle, handguns and an AR-15 semi-automatic military-style rifle. The antique muzzle-loader was valued at about $3,000. The man, who was also hurt but did not go to hospital, had bought the gun about five years ago and had never fired it. Staff Sgt. Al Cassidy said the man had all the proper paperwork for the guns and had them stored in cases. But because of the accident, police removed the guns from the home. The man could face charges of unsafe handling of a firearm. The woman remains in hospital and has not been interviewed by police. "I would describe this guy as a responsible owner,'' said Cassidy. Cassidy said the man, who has known the woman for a few years, is in shock and doesn't know how the gun went off. Sgt. Rudy Smith of Waterloo regional police said the woman was visiting the man for dinner when the pair began talking about three antique rifles on the fireplace mantle. The man took one of the three from the mantelpiece and they both went outside onto the back porch. The man, who is an avid hunter, is a member of a local gun club and shoots competitively. In his home are trophies of past successful hunts, such as a moose head and a stuffed fox. The woman, who wore protective goggles, took the 4.5-kilogram (10-pound) firearm and held it while the man put some gunpowder in it. "He was going to show her how it worked. She had never held a gun before,'' said Smith. Cassidy said it's not unusual for firearm enthusiasts to have as many as 20 guns in their homes. Police caution firearm owners not to allow inexperienced people to handle the guns. "These type of guns should not be fired unless you're an expert,'' Cassidy said. ............................. Haiku: Stupidity kills. / Absolute stupidity / Kills absolutely. - --WWW.DARWINAWARDS.COM
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 6:11:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 6:14:45 PM EDT
Why would you say that 95. This happened just outside of my town. I am trying to find out the details of what happened. The big question is WHAT CAUSED THE IGNITION!! All the guessing is not going to help at this point.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 6:25:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: Why do I think the gun was already 'charged' and another load of powder plus bullet was rammed down atop the existing one?
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That is a possibility that had not occurred to me, but the first test for any muzzle-loader is to determine whether it is unloaded, and that is to drop the rammer down all the way until it stops, checking to see how much, if any, of the rammer, protrudes from the muzzle. Additionally, and most importantly, the gun is at least 150-plus years old, and should NOT be fired, period. Pitting on modern, high quality gun steel is one thing, but pitted bores on a wrought iron barrel, from one or two centuries ago? Fuhgeddaboudit- it should have stayed on the wall. It would not have even occurred to me to fire it! I know people with muzzle-loaders in Hamilton, ON, myself I could have sent this guy and gal to for a firing demo on flinters.....what a shame. I'll bet this made the TV news all over Canada, and the exemption for flintocks in Canada's C-68 gun law might possibly get eliminated because of this. I'll bet Wendy Cukier and Anne McLellan are giving each other high fives on this one.... BTW one thing I have noticed over the years is that knowledge and habits involving modern breech-loading weapons do not necessarily apply to black-powder muzzle-loaders, esp. flintlocks and caplocks. FREX, I wish I had a dime for every time I have had to help out some poor duffer at the range who is trying to get his caplock to fire, but just didn't take the time to clean the gun and nipple before he had put it away the previous winter after hunting season..... [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 6:27:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 6:32:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2002 6:32:58 PM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 6:40:16 PM EDT
Dare we ask......did they somehow load it with modern smokeless powder, somehow?
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:12:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch: Dare we ask......did they somehow load it with modern smokeless powder, somehow?
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I would kinda doubt this; since the guy shot in competition, he probably reloaded, and thus HAD to be aware of the difference in pressure produced by the different types of powder. Of course, I could be wrong......he could have just had a brain fart.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:42:09 PM EDT
So how does being experienced prevent you from sustaining injuries when it blows up? I must say that there was more accuracy in that news report then any others I see here in the states. "an AR-15 semi-automatic military-style rifle" Thats not a bad description. Here they would say "assault rifle", or "machine gun". "Cassidy said it's not unusual for firearm enthusiasts to have as many as 20 guns in their homes." Hey, no kidding, they usually don't explain that part! The last one I read would call it a "cache of weapons", or "an arsenal", and "police have no idea why the man had that many guns"
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 8:16:16 PM EDT
If he owned more than one car & got in a car accident that resulted in amputation, would they confiscate all his cars? Confiscating all his firearms??...he'll probably never see them again. I used to think Canada was a progressive country but man was I wrong...they are following the same bs steps as Britain & Australia.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 8:30:44 PM EDT
Accidents happen to the best of us. I agree with Troy, thats actually a nice fair piece by the media. I am suprised how many rounds of ammo he had wasnt mentioned.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 9:09:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 9:25:42 PM EDT
But it is still the same old BS, they took all his guns for no real reason.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 9:31:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: What other reasons could there be?
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... a good old fashioned Damascus barrel could blow easily
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 9:50:27 PM EDT
Did she lose her entire arm, or .62% of it?
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 11:16:03 PM EDT
I would attribute the incident to animism.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 11:24:23 PM EDT
"The man could face charges of unsafe handling of a firearm." I don't believe it was the man hanling it.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:18:58 AM EDT
If it was a old muzzle loader, it may have well been a flintlock rather than a cap-and-ball. One of the folks could've been smoking & the ash dropped in the ignition pan. Or old powder is, as we all know, extremely unstable. It may have been crystalized (sp?) & unstable & gotten a bit of a bump, enough to set it off.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 8:01:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch: Dare we ask......did they somehow load it with modern smokeless powder, somehow?
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That is my bet ( if I were making one) a guy I know did that...kerblewy!! The funny thing is after he and his brother picked up the bits and pieces ( I was NOT there) his brother did the same thing!! BOTH GUNS TOTALLED!!!! Nobody got hurt.. Turns out they were using a charge of 90 grains of BULLSEYE!!!
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 8:04:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER: "The man could face charges of unsafe handling of a firearm." I don't believe it was the man hanling it.
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Thats due to our new Canadian Law. The lady in question did not have a valid permit. Therefore she could only handle guns under the direct control of a permited person. The liability then falls to the permited person. NICE LAW EH!!
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 9:15:52 AM EDT
The guy probably could have put smokeless powder in it... a big no-no. I have a flinter, and it would be hard to make it go off, unless you properly loaded and primed it. However, it IS possible for it to go off with no priming charge if it is loaded, and it IS possible to go off even in half-cock. I wonder what REALLY happened. Probably something stupid, tho.
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