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Posted: 1/3/2002 7:48:10 AM EDT
Hope I haven't offended anyone by using this old name, but the article did. And I hope this is not a repeat from days ago. [url]http://www.newsmax.com/commentarchive.shtml?a=2001/12/28/143934[/url] 'Negroes With Guns' Dr. Michael S. Brown Dec. 28, 2001 The year was 1957. Monroe, N.C., was a rigidly segregated town where all levels of white society and government were dedicated to preserving the racial status quo. Blacks who dared to speak out were subject to brutal, sadistic violence. It was common practice for convoys of Ku Klux Klan members to drive through black neighborhoods shooting in all directions. A black physician who owned a nice brick house on a main road was a frequent target of racist anger. In the summer of 1957, a Klan motorcade sent to attack the house was met by a disciplined volley of rifle fire from a group of black veterans and NRA members led by civil rights activist Robert F. Williams. Using military-surplus rifles from behind sandbag fortifications, the small band of freedom fighters drove off the larger force of Klansmen with no casualties reported on either side. Williams, a former Marine who volunteered to lead the Monroe chapter of the NAACP and founded a 60-member NRA-chartered rifle club, described the battle in his 1962 book, "Negroes With Guns," which was reprinted in 1998 by Wayne State University Press. According to Williams, the Monroe group owed its survival in the face of vicious violence to the fact that they were armed. In several cases, police officials who normally ignored or encouraged Klan violence took steps to prevent whites from attacking armed blacks. In other cases, fanatical racists suddenly turned into cowards when they realized their intended victims were armed.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:49:34 AM EDT
-con- Oddly, it appears that the organized armed blacks of Monroe never shot any of their tormentors. The simple existence of guns in the hands of men who were willing to use them prevented greater violence. It is important to note that the guns were not used offensively. They were part of an overall strategy that relied primarily on peaceful protest like picketing or entering whites-only establishments. Williams demonstrated that the dignified and responsible use of firearms for self-defense was an important method to achieve justice for those denied fair treatment by all institutions of government. The civil rights movement was deeply divided between those who espoused a pacifist, non-violent approach and those who believed that human beings had a right and a duty to use force in self-defense. Williams was the most influential leader of the self-defense wing of the movement. His effort to provide guns and training to African-American civil rights supporters was alarming to white politicians. Most state gun control laws, not just in the South, were blatantly designed to keep guns out of the hands of blacks and other minorities. Those with racist beliefs were not pleased when blacks claimed the right to keep and bear arms that is guaranteed to all Americans. The connection with the NRA might surprise some people who portray the organization as a haven for racist rednecks. Former NRA Executive Director Tanya Metaksa spoke with Williams before his death. She recalls, "He was very proud of being an NRA member and that the NRA sanctioned his club without question." The civil rights organizations of today bear little resemblance to the deadly serious armed activists of Monroe. African-American leaders generally support the liberal white line that guns are evil and have no place in modern society. On the other hand, small numbers of responsible black gun owners continue to honor their heritage by practicing their marksmanship and joining gun rights organizations. The tradition of the black gun club still lives on in the Tenth Cavalry Gun club, led by Ken Blanchard in Prince Georges County, Md. While researching this column, I contacted Don Kates, a civil rights attorney who went to North Carolina in 1963 to participate in the movement. I asked if he ever carried a gun during those days and he responded with a list of a half-dozen that were always within reach.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:50:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2002 8:30:30 AM EDT by Chaingun]
-con- Kates also suggested that I read a letter written by an old friend of his from those days, John R. Salter Jr., who is now Professor Emeritus at the University of North Dakota. Here are two brief quotes: In the early 1960s, I taught at Tougaloo College, a black school in Jackson, Mississippi. I was a member of the statewide board of the NAACP and was Chairman of the Jackson Movement. No one knows what kind of massive racist retaliation would have been directed at grass-roots black people had the black community not had a healthy measure of firearms within it. During most of the 1960s I did civil rights work in various parts of the South and almost always had with me a .38 special Smith and Wesson 2-inch-barrel revolver – what you would now erroneously call a "Saturday Night Special." In 1962 the Monroe freedom fighters were overwhelmed by a huge mob that converged on the town. The Justice Department and the state police ignored calls for help. The rabid racists were aided by law enforcement that branded Williams a communist and a dangerous schizophrenic. Rob Williams eluded an FBI manhunt and fled to Cuba, which he erroneously believed to be free of racism. Within five years he realized that Cuba was not as he had imagined and moved on to China. There he was treated as a celebrity and returned to the United States in 1969 with the quiet blessing of Richard Nixon. Williams worked as a China scholar at the University of Michigan and reportedly advised Henry Kissinger on Chinese affairs. He died in 1996. Dr. Michael S. Brown is an optometrist and member of Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws, www.dsgl.org. He may be reached at rkba2000@yahoo.com References: [url]http://www.lexis-nexis.com/academic/2upa/Aaas/bpower2.htm[/url] [url]http://www.natcom.org/roc/one-one/hope.htm[/url] [url]http://www.blackmanwithagun.net/intro.htm[/url] (Ken Blanchard) [url]http://www.saf.org/pub/rkba/general/GunsVersusKKK.htm[/url] (John R. Salter Jr.)
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:51:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:57:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 8:05:54 AM EDT
OK- somebody fill me in- why was this original thread locked? Where is CavVet when we need him?......
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 8:09:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2002 8:10:34 AM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 8:32:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chaingun: It was common practice for convoys of Ku Klux Klan members to drive through black neighborhoods shooting in all directions.
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So this is where drive-by shootings started.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 8:38:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 8:42:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 9:37:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2002 1:36:14 PM EDT by M4]
[url]www.blackmanwithagun.net[/url] [img]www.blackmanwithagun.net/images/intropic.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 9:41:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 9:47:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 10:04:22 AM EDT
The article was posted the first time by a guy named Hoser88. The link to the national alliance nazi site was posted on the General Firearms Discussion forum by a guy named area88. Seeing a pattern yet? H is the eighth letter of the alphabet. HH is nazi skin slang for "Heil Hitler." Of course, I could be wrong. It could be that these Dr. Mengele decoder ring wearers are just big Eric Lindros fans... [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 10:08:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 10:12:42 AM EDT
I like Hoser88's in-depth commentary on the other AR15 link better than reading this article. But then another link is also makes comments like:
When the campus of Tougaloo College was fired on by [b]KKK-type racial night-riders[/b], my home was shot up and a bullet missed my infant daughter by inches. We received no help from the Justice Department and we guarded our campus -- faculty and students together -- on that and subsequent occasions. We let this be known. The racist attacks slackened considerably. Night-riders are cowardly people -- in any time and place -- and they take advantage of fear and weakness.
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I missed the deep south 50's but now we have multiple claims of KKK Nightriders shooting indiscriminately. What we can't believe would happen today, could have happened in the 50's and the news media would have ignored it. A [b]a disciplined volley of rifle fire[/b] doesn't mean you aimed at the intended target, they could have fired a warning shot. Sure, may were from WWII, but this would have been a disorganized mob gathering, not an organized military operation. A volley of shots could have easily dispersed the crowd.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 10:17:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: Under that proposition, Mister Jarhead 22, what does your "BB" stand for? [:D]
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Hmmm... "Barbecue Buster" "Beer Belly" "Biscuits-and-gravy Biter" I don't know, brother. "Jarhead_22" is what hotmail suggested when I tried to get "Jarhead@hotmail.com," so I went with it.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 10:18:22 AM EDT
I lived in Monroe, N.C. from 1967 until 1978 and never heard mention of this at all. I was in Scouts, parents were active in the community and school, at the local gun club and hunted and fished. NEVER, EVER even heard this story. Asked my Dad, who was a mamber of the local VFW, Moose Lodge and Legion hall. He said it sounds like bullsh!t. I can prove I lived there it was a town of approx. 11,000 when I left, small enough to hear things.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 11:02:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 11:36:34 AM EDT
My girlfriend is black/hispanic. She was living in LA during the 94 riots (or whenever). She actually got to see the police leave (in person). She said that the only non-black businesses that didn't get burned down was the ones with armed guys standing out front. Everything else got robbed and torched. She lives here in Texas, owns a Glock 17 and a Colt AR-15 HBAR. The Colt has a Bushnell Holosight on it. If any rednecks come driving down her street with a white hood on then there is going to be a red hole in it right after they get to her house. Trust me when I tell you that there will be no warning shots. It's not blacks with guns you gotta worry about. Hell, it's not asians, arabs, hispanics, etc, etc, etc. The only people you gotta worry about with guns are WOMEN. You piss them off and they will shoot your ass, no questions asked.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 3:27:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: These two paragraphs alone should tell you the article is bogus. A "disciplined volley of rifle fire from a group of black veterans and NRA members . . . with [b]no casualties [/b]reported on either side"? "Freedom fighters?" Gimme a break.
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I don't know. I could see some reasons why this might happen: The defenders may have been shooting to warn, not to kill. Killing could have had larger consequences, and may have been considered a last resort. I have read this story before in the American Rifleman a few years ago, which mentioned that this confrontation took place at night, like most KKK actions. This was 1957, rifles had no night sights or red dot sights, street lighting in a black neighborhood, even on the main road, may have been less than perfect, the parties may simply have missed each other in the dark. It is difficult to hit someone traveling in a moving car, or someone entrenched behind sandbags. There is some statistic somewhere that the US Army in Vietnam fired over 30,000 rounds of small arms fire per VietCong/NVA casualty. Sorry, I cannot find the source right now. Even today, there are gunfights where tens of rounds are fired and no one gets hit. It would be interesting to get some independent corroboration of this story.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 3:39:55 PM EDT
In the old days, when Rec.guns flame burned even brighter than it does now, I did some research on the topic which lead me to this book. It was an old book on the top floor of the U library, it was paperback and survived only because it was in a box. I posted a book report on it, and the training and firefights. Odd how the NAACP forgets who supported the blacks in staying alive, and who tried to make them defenseless victims.... must be a memory problem...
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 3:47:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2002 3:50:24 PM EDT by Happyshooter]
Anyhow, the leader (who the NAACP fired and the locals rehired) used the local black gun club as a source of both rifles and training. He was a former Marine NCO, and his first mission was arming the men. He used a mix of NRA M1s and other rifles, and had to import German WWII rifles cheaply to round out his TE. The NRA provided training in addition to materials. He then trained the men to aim, and to use sparks to insure they were on target. This was because most white forces used a 1950s sort of driveby attack. The men knew they were on target when they saw hits on the cars. I believe that explains the lack of deaths. His men also used rifles to drive off a light aircraft on a firebombing mission. His leadership ended when a white couple who were connected with the attacking forces came into his area and he held them to safeguard them from his men. He was then arrested by state forces. Later his men were disarmed by federal agents and left defenseless victims because of their use of German arms (German=Nazi=Commie in the fed mind) The leader then escaped, first to Canada and then to Cuba.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 3:48:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 95thFoot: OK- somebody fill me in- why was this original thread locked? Where is CavVet when we need him?......
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Long-Gone......and I don`t blame him...[spank]
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 4:57:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BlackandGreen:
Originally Posted By 95thFoot: OK- somebody fill me in- why was this original thread locked? Where is CavVet when we need him?......
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Long-Gone......and I don`t blame him...[spank]
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Very sad- he had some good stuff to say. I sorta remember how he left, prob. from having to deal with the neanderthals that crop up on this forum from time to time..... ........................................ Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did, and it never will. Find out just what people will submit to and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they have resisted with either words or blows, or both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they suppress. - --FREDRICK DOUGLASS
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 5:08:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 8:02:53 PM EDT
"The lesson this [an example of successful resistance to lynchers] teaches and which every African American should ponder well, is that a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home, and it should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give." — Civil rights leader [b]Ida B. Wells[/b], [u]Southern Horrors: Lynch Law In All Its Phases[/u] (New York, 1892), 22-23. An article in Virginia's official university law review called for a "prohibitive tax... on the privilege" of selling handguns as a way of disarming "the son of Ham", whose "cowardly practice of 'toting' guns has been one of the most fruitful sources of crime... Let a negro board a railroad train with a quart of mean whiskey and a pistol in his grip and the chances are that there will be a murder, or at least a row, before he alights." — [i]Carrying Concealed Weapons[/i], 15 Va L. Reg. 391, 391-92 (1909), [u]George Mason University Civil Rights Law Journal[/u], Vol. 2, No. 1, "Gun Control and Racism," [b]Stefan Tahmassebi[/b], 1991, p. 75] "No slaves shall keep any arms whatever, nor pass, unless with written orders for his master or employer, or in his company, with arms from one place to another. Arms in possession of a slave contrary to this prohibition shall be forfeited to him who will seize them." — [u]A Bill Concerning Slaves[/u], Virginia Assembly, 1779
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 5:43:26 AM EDT
95th ft.......I agree I liked Cav Vet myself......someone tried to get him to re-up.......but it WAS some of the narrow minded b/s that pissed him off...as I said...don`t blame him.......[:(]
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 5:51:46 AM EDT
Let me just say that I have met CavVet, and he really seemed like a great guy. As a matter of fact, he's now the proud owner of a Walther P99 that I sold him. I could only hope that other members of this board are as cool as he is. Too bad he left due to some of the a$$holes here.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:25:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kalifornia:
Originally Posted By Chaingun: It was common practice for convoys of Ku Klux Klan members to drive through black neighborhoods shooting in all directions.
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So this is where drive-by shootings started.
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No, ever hear of the roaring 20`s? Ya know Tommy guns and gansters?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:31:49 AM EDT
CavVet, GovtThug and one other... I don't remember who were the only people that stood up with me during my first post(a little over a year ago). It was a racial thread, and headed by McUzi and a few others who I also don't remember. I remember just buying my first AR, finding this site, and reading how racist this thread was. That was my first impression of this web site. The ONLY reason I stayed was to fight McUzi(and friends) alongside CavVet, GovtThug and someone else. Later on I found out that the majority is not racist. But I remember being so furious reading what people where saying about blacks, or minorities with guns. Just pissed me off and kind of made me want to do to them what they said minorities would do if they were allowed to have weapons. [pissed] But for the most part, I haven't seen one of those threads in a while. [beer]
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:35:20 AM EDT
"CavVet, GovtThug and one other... I don't remember who were the only people that stood up with me during my first post(a little over a year ago). It was a racial thread, and headed by McUzi and a few others who I also don't remember. I remember just buying my first AR, finding this site, and reading how racist this thread was. That was my first impression of this web site. The ONLY reason I stayed was to fight McUzi(and friends) alongside CavVet, GovtThug and someone else. Later on I found out that the majority is not racist. But I remember being so furious reading what people where saying about blacks, or minorities with guns. Just pissed me off and kind of made me want to do to them what they said minorities would do if they were allowed to have weapons" posted by et3_surfacewar You just joined a little too early. Or maybe you're just a little too in touch with your feminine side. People keep telling me to get more in touch with my feminine side. If I could find my feminine side I'd be touching her all the time. [:D] My girlfriend, as described above, wasn't really too interested in the AR till two things happened. She shot it, which she really liked, and then she saw my copy of "The Black Rifle". Well when she figured out that its semi-formal name was the BLACK rifle I think she decided then and there that she had an ethnic right to own one. I had never really thought about it till then but I'm certainly not going to be the one trying to tell a black person that they shouldn't have a black rifle [:D]
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 8:02:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 8:32:31 AM EDT
You know what, I'd say it was you Paul. Before you were a Moderator I believe. I'm not exactly sure, but does the nick ET3_NotReally look familiar to you? retrodog: Yeah... sure... what he said. [whacko]
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 9:02:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2002 9:03:15 AM EDT by Ruckus]
Does this guy qualify? [;)] [url]http://www.consumptionjunction.com/feat/cc/detail.asp?ID=7604[/url]
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 9:45:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 10:09:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 2:35:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2002 2:38:23 PM EDT by TigerClaw]
I am a "Negro with a gun". My weapon is for the defense of - My country My freedom My beliefs My honor My home My family My friends, regardless of race, creed or color It may sound corny, but I just wanted to say that.
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