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Posted: 1/2/2002 8:57:38 PM EDT
I'm in Kleveland, Ohio and am looking for something to carry that's legal and effective. A handgun is effective but not legal to carry with me here. Expandable batons are in a basic way illegal to carry. Already carry a couple folders that I know are legal. But I have no experience with OC. What do I look for in one? Percentage? SHU? Is there a good measuring unit I can count on? And also what type of propelling characteristics should I desire? Stream, fogger, foam, or spray? Thanks in advance!
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 9:13:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 9:20:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2002 9:35:42 PM EDT by pakrat]
The first thing to do is to check your state laws regarding OC/CS/chemical defense spray whatever they want to call it. If your laws jive with you carrying it: you want to find something with at least 1 to 2 Million SHU, in a concentration of 5%. 10% is too heavy and anything higher is considered bear repellant. The best spray pattern is cone shaped mist or a fogger type. BUT, the problem is that wind does affect it more than stream or foam. You want the bad guy to inhale it. That is where you get best results. OC is considered an inflammatory agent, so inhaling, inflames the mucos membrane, throat, nasal passages and eyes. Stream works better in windy enviroments but takes to long to work. Had a stream tested on me and it took 22 seconds before I went "OMG!" Too long, especially in a serious altercation. Foam is ok but you don't get the inhalation. Buy a cone shaped mist and always be consious of your surroundings. If your state will allow you to carry something marked LE, go for Punch II or CapStun. Liquid Napalm in a can. This stuff sucks. Plus your propellants are not considered toxic in these two. If your propellants are isobutane/propane, (Same stuff used in shaving cream and hair spray), you won't have a problem with it leaking out. Your agent carrier is best if it's isopropayl alcohol. Some get in a tizzy about it being flammable. Yeah, only if your hosing someone down who is standing at BBQ grill or next to a house fire. A cigarette, won't set it off! That's why I much prefer Punch or CapStun Avoid the OC/CS concentrations. CS manufactures, realized that their products are not great in handheld size units so they tried to make up for it and added OC. I have used OC on many occasions. It is not 100%, like anything is, but in a right formula and spray pattern, it is very effective and a very good deterrant. Do your homework, check the manufacture's MSDS for any bad ingrediants like Dymel 22 or 122. This will help if you get sued. Hope this helps. Good luck! ps - for some really good info, go to www.zarc.com
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 9:27:47 PM EDT
I would stay away from foam...you spray the bad guy..he wipes the foam away quickly and throws it at you. I would just get something in a MK4 size at 10%. That container is big enough and will last you a long time even if it does lose some. DefTec makes a really good brand (that is what I have used and carried) You want something that is a cross between a stream and a spray. If you do have to use it chances are you will not have good aim. However, a fogger type discharge is not something that I would advise because they usually leave a big cloud...that means you get hit with it also. [url]www.galls.com[/url] This is a good place to shop for OC. [url]www.galls.com/shop/viewProductDetail.jsp?item=SD086[/url] This is the brand and type I use. Our department even orders it from Galls. Remember...test monthly...and IT DOES NOT WORK ON EVERYONE...take my word on this..I have been in a few situations that OC just pissed the person off more or did NOTHING TO THEM. Also keep in mind what beekeeper said...the propellant can and will leak. However, with the brand above I have two can that I got in 1998 and they still function. medcop
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 9:34:15 PM EDT
We just got certified to carry the FOX brand spray..... This stuff is much better than what we had.... freeze+p. Very strong and as noted by the guys above...check local laws check out the can every so often....they do go bad. AXELDAWG
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 10:30:46 PM EDT
These are my recommendations, most of which are what I was told by my instructor. I have never needed to use OC, so I don't have any personal experience. Find a local self-defense school and take their OC course or clinic. This will give you a grounding in what to get, how to use it, when to use it, and CYA in case you end up in court. 2 ounces for pocket/purse carry (or whatever you will actually carry) OC only, no CS or other additives Fogger or cone spray Non-flammable propellant and suspension SHU and percent make little difference (i.e. everything out there is strong enough) Buy two cans and fire one in the backyard so you can see the pattern and make sure you can release the safety, etc. Do not test fire your 'for real' canister because there is little product and you don't want it to be half empty when you need it. OC is relatively cheap, replace it every year or two. If traveling buy some when you reach your destination and toss it just before the return flight. My choices: ASP Key Defender, I will actually carry this and it makes a good keychain for the car key and keyless entry transmitter. OC-10 with the safety tabs cut. 1.5oz for right jacket pocket. 3oz in nightstand, velcroed to bottom of dashboard, and velcroed to bottom of desk at work. I know to clip the safety tabs because I fired two or three of these in the backyard and found the tabs too difficult to break. Francisco
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 3:10:11 AM EDT
Capstun is effective stuff, but I have a few warnings about it. The cone spray requires you to very close to use it. Never use Capstun indoors unless you want to have to call the fire department to air out the building Capstun is only good for one or two sprays. If you do very short bursts, you can get more, but your first response when use use it is to "hose 'em down." You will run out quickly. The design of the cannister is such that you have to carry it in its holder to keep it from accidentally discharging. You also need to make sure that you have one of the new style safety sleeves that completely covers the trigger. Trust me on this-I have had several cans of Capstun accidentally discharge on me, usually while in a car. It really, really sucks. When you break the tab on a new can, make sure that it is pointed away from your face and you are outside. Sometimes, capstun cans will uncontrolably discharge their entire contents when the tab is removed. Been there twice. It sucks. Capstun takes a long time to decon and has a long recovery period. Remember this. If you use Capstun, make sure that you thoroughly wash your hands ASAP and do not touch your face or anything else you don't want contaminated before you wash your hands. Again, trust me on this one. Also, make sure that you take a very long shower with lots of soap. Capstun can work its way into your skin and suddenly attack your arms and legs several hours after you use it. Again, this is personal experience. It sucks to wake up screaming because your leg suddenly caught fire. On second thoughts, maybe you should not use Capstun and should try something else, like any of the DefTech products (the Mark IV comes to mind). Good luck.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 3:36:49 AM EDT
As others have suggested, stick w/ 2 million SHU in 5 or 10%. Buy yourself some baby wipe thingys (for accidents and quick recovery) and you'll find the best products at your local Cop Shopping store. You might want to consider puchasing one of the SureFire flashlights while your there at the police store as they are plenty powerful enough to utilize as a non-lethal defense. It's really tough to attack someone when you've been "blinded by the light" so to speak. On a realtively dark evening my P9 puts out 105 lumens, enough to temporarily blind one for up too 1 minute. Giving one time to adios or Kick the S%&t outta most BGs. Just my 2cents, Mike
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 9:34:55 AM EDT
Don't buy baby wipes!!!! It was heavily stressed in the academy that if you put a burn salve or anything besides water on the affected area that it will hold in the heat and cause REAL burns!! I know it feels like your skin is really on fire, but if you use baby wipes with a lotion of some time in it, it wil cause real burns! There are wipes made specifically for OC, but those are reported to not work any better than water and air. Just an FYI!
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 1:17:11 PM EDT
Fox is some really HOT stuff. I accidently got it in one of my eyes and near shit myself before it quit burning. And Oh Yeah, I got some on my steering wheel too. Decontamination wipes are essential to have if your are gonna mess with this stuff. Sudecon wipes are with me everywhere I go.
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