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Posted: 1/2/2002 1:57:59 PM EDT
I just found out an interesting thing about gun laws in CA. Seems that all CA FFL holders have to mail a "request" for an original FFL licence copy with the siginature of any out of state FFL holder on it. Only then will they accept the signed FFL even if they already have a signed copy sent out before the formal "request" It seems that the State of CA requires a FFL must be be "requested first" by the CA FFL shipper before they accept it and send the gun out of state. It matters not if my FFL holder in AZ sent it out before the written snailmailed request was sent. (makes alot of sense doesn't it?) The way I see this is that the State of CA intentionally slows this whole interstate gun transfer process down by requiring that a "request for FFL" is snailmailed and recieved first by the out of state FFL holder, and then the recieving out of state FFL holder has to snailmail a hand signed original copy of his FFL licence, along with a copy of the CA "request for FFL" back before it is acceptable in CA. This is the first time I have bought a gun in CA and had it shipped out of state. It will also be the LAST TIME!! I got a good deal on GunsAmerica and didn't think shipping the gun through two FFL holders would be so time consuming and involved. All I can say is that this country is in a sad shape when restrictive federal regulations are allowed to be bogged down even more by the Demented California anti-gun liberals who pass law after law like this one requiring a copy of the "request" along with the FFL. I seems the sole intent of this regulation is to choke-off law abiding citizens of their Constitional rights as provided in the 2nd ammendment. Sorry, I am pissed-off at the stupid CA gun laws. I was born Huntington Beach, and grew up in S. CA. I'm sure am glad I got out of that state 25 yrs ago. The irony of all this is that gun crime in CA has not decreased at all by the numerous gun regulations like this one that they keep passing. Still, the gang-bangers and criminals in LA can pick up a cheap handgun on the corner for $75.00 within a moments notice, shells included. Go Figure that out Dianne Feinstien, your laws do a whole lot of good! I will never buy a gun from someone in CA again. I wonder if there are other states with a similar "Request for FFL" law like this one?
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 2:03:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 2:12:01 PM EDT
they dont call california the granolia state for nothing.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 2:50:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: I hate California!
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Does the Navy require you to live in California? Isnt your duty station in the Riverside/San Bernadino area, you could move to Nevada and commute.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 2:58:22 PM EDT
When did this supposed law go into effect? No inter-state purchase I've ever made required this. Gun dealers do really wierd things, sometimes. Oh, California bashers always remind me about this joke- Woman: "Men are pigs!" Man: "Yeah, too bad we own everything!" [:P]
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 3:19:26 PM EDT
The Law went in effect 1/1/02! I checked with 2 other CA dealers. Grant Boys in Costa Mesa is the CA shipper.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 3:23:31 PM EDT
Good Ole Kalifornia, the Fruit, Flake, and Nut capital of the World...
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 3:39:06 PM EDT
I'm preaching to the choir here, but I think it should be pointed out on a regular basis (particularly if F-F-F-F-F-feinstein ever has the cajones to get into a debate on the gun-control issue) that [b][size=2]Senator Dianne Feinstein has a CCW permit[/size=2][/b], no doubt because she's more exclusive than the avg. peon. I'm sure she'd respond that anyone in Kali has the legal right to get a CCW. But, of course, this is only on paper. In the real world, no one in Kali4nya will [b]ever[/b] be granted the required [b]permission[/b] to get one. Only exception I ever encountered when I lived there was with regards to Madera Co. (a central valley county) residents. One of them told me that they have the automatic right to a CCW through their county charter, provided they've lived there some time (I think it was either 7 or 15 years - not sure). However, I don't know if it's still that way today.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 3:40:26 PM EDT
To many liberals.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 3:47:14 PM EDT
So, if you live out-of-state and want to buy a gun from a CA dealer or you live in CA and want to sell a gun to someone in a different state, then the new requirement applies? However, if you live in CA and purchase a gun from an out- of-state FFL, things are still the same, right?
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 4:01:18 PM EDT
Yup...way to many liberals. California is fast becoming the most liberal state in the country. For the unwary or refusenik Californians who still remain there in spite of the onerous laws being passed every day to restrict your lives (Governor Davis has signed HUNDREDS of them since taking office...want to hazard a guess as to whether they made your lives any better???), I would say (with all due respect) you are getting what you deserve. Terrible part is this is the death of a thousand cuts. The state is perfect for the antis. They have fertile ground for their illegal campaign and they fully expect to move it beyond the state borders in the future. The anti-gunners are aware they can't simply go out and overturn the Second Amendment. They CAN and they ARE making gun ownership in California unpleasant for many. Those of you who have doubts...just take a minute to ponder what has happened there in the last five years. Once Davis was elected, along with a totally Democratic assembly and senate, the antis had a willing audience and gun rights began to be infringed upon. Why can't you buy an M1A with a regular mag? Why is my AR totall illegal there? Why is the purchase process so damn hard? From a BIG California basher...and former long term resident. I grew up there and spent most of my many years there...but no longer. Creeping socialism is on the march. As the population continues to grow unabated and the cities get larger and more powerful policitally, the rights of law abiding gun owners will continue to be restriced without letup. The state really needs its own Electoral College. That way, the state precincts outside of LA and Frisco (That always drives the bay area people nuts!) won't have the undiluted and total control of the state like they do now. [soapbox]
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 4:13:59 PM EDT
Pete Wilson was governor while much of the most restrictive antigun legislation was passed. Republican, I do believe. Davis is perfect example of professional politician- guy's neverhad a real job in his life. Just be careful, I hear he wants to be president! Yeah, it sucks in some ways to live here, but I prefer stay and fight, though.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 4:25:34 PM EDT
The only problem with California is....... It hasn't fallen into the Ocean yet......
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 4:27:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: Pete Wilson was governor while much of the most restrictive antigun legislation was passed. Republican, I do believe. Davis is perfect example of professional politician- guy's neverhad a real job in his life. Just be careful, I hear he wants to be president! Yeah, it sucks in some ways to live here, but I prefer stay and fight, though.
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Good luck! I truly wish you well. I hope you find your bliss there. I found mine here in a free commonwealth where individual rights are still sacrosanct and personal responsibility remains a moral imperative. Keep up the good fight. I fear that you are caught in a rising tide. Sic Semper Tyrannis! [beer]
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 4:31:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 4:52:00 PM EDT
What's wrong with Kalifornia? Our lawmakers are dead from the neck up. Our FFL dealers are so paranoid about Kalifornia law that they don't brush up on Federal Law.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 4:59:30 PM EDT
Where I live, I have 2 choices - I can vote for a Democratic gun grabber, or the Republican gun grabber. Really, there is no choice at all. The problem is that there are so many lawyers in this state. If we could just get rid of them, this place might become reasonable again. Another gift on 1/1/2002 was the new trigger lock law. You have to purchase an approved trigger lock with every gun you buy. The State did not send out the list of approved locks until the last minute. As a result, most dealers did not have the right locks and could not sell any guns. The Socialists have a pretty sweet setup in this state. Another 5 laws go into effect on 1/1/2003. The 2nd Amendment is pretty much dead and buried in the PRK.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 5:13:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LotBoy: To many liberals.
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What he said. California was great....until they panned out all the gold [;D]
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 5:39:16 PM EDT
bjames, Someone is BS'ing you. There is no such law in California and no such law took effect on Jan 1. Ask the dealer to quote the penal code section. Also there is no requirement for a shipment to be from a dealer. Only the receipient needs to be licensed. There is no California law requiring shipment from a licensee.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 5:40:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Master_Blaster: [b][size=2]Senator Dianne Feinstein has a CCW permit[/size=2][/b], no doubt because she's more exclusive than the avg. peon. I'm sure she'd respond that anyone in Kali has the legal right to get a CCW. But, of course, this is only on paper. In the real world, no one in Kali4nya will [b]ever[/b] be granted the required [b]permission[/b] to get one.
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You info, however well meaning, is out of date. DiFi has not had a CCW for many years. Orange County California is handing out CCWs like candy on Halloween.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 5:44:21 PM EDT
I got my ccw on my 22nd b-day. Tulare county is pretty good about that. so its definantly not impossible
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 5:54:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 6:35:37 PM EDT
Hey Wolfpack. You ever played Evercrack? (everquest by others.
Originally Posted By Wolfpack: During any presidential election I don't know why they don't just start off giving the dem the 45 electoral votes and paint the state blue. Why wait?
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Link Posted: 1/2/2002 7:31:29 PM EDT
Oh come on....it can't be that bad.....oh wait....I'm in NJ, so it's not that far a stretch....mea culpa. I figure...easiest solution to the problem.........nuke Berkeley. It's a win-win-win scenario. You kill one of the nests, you destroy several thousand vectors before they've spread, and you send a damn good warning message to the rest of the bunch. [X]
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 9:42:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: Three and a half hours each way would be a killer commute
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Huh? It's only 3Hr 15Min from my house to Las Vegas. Riverside to Sloan (which is nearly 30mins inside the border) is more like 2Hr 20Min. Buy some land literally 50 yards across the border and drop a manufactured home on it. Your commute would be under two hours and I could come shoot in your back yard
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 9:54:00 PM EDT
Grant Boys? LOL....they are rip offs. Try B&B (http://www.bnbsales.com) in Westminster or Turners (http://www.turners.com) in Fountain Valley next time. They offer better selection and better pricing. Another rip off in Orange County is Evan's Shooters World (http://www.egsw.com).
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 11:11:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: Pete Wilson was governor while much of the most restrictive antigun legislation was passed. Republican, I do believe.
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It goes back farther than that. In 1988, George Deukmejian A REPUBLICAN signed into law Roberti-Roos, the nation's first "assault weapon" ban. A lesson in what "the lesser of 2 evils" gets you.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 12:09:48 AM EDT
It really doe's not matter anymore were sunk sorry it's the truth. It should have never been let go as long as it has.The minute Clinton had signed that 1994 crime bill or anyone of those other guncontrol act's the the gunowner's should have invaded all the capitals and at point blank range made example's of every politician in the land. All us American's are Spineless,so scared of the repercushon's,so what,die standing up and in the face's of those who defy us.we are in the right so who care's lets start F#$kin shit up and retake control its the only way. Until then we better take it with a smile.Cause there is alot more comin and what is our alternatives? You cannot fight these people politicaly.So i say in plain term's do away with them. We have 48% of the populace are gun owners 140 some odd million if we could get just 1% to fight thats 1.4 million easy and we probably dont need that many? All you have to do is wait till all your lawmaker's are in session and then BAM over run them with overwelming force and firepower. Until we decide as a people to take it back by force cause we wont win with the "process" they own the process now. It's our choice,we either live with this or we do what seem's to be the next logical step, revolution! I'm sure John Jay,Paul Revere,Thomas Jefferson,James Madison,and Bengamin Franklin wouldnt mind in the least. And if you think the Framer's of the Constitution didnt include the right for us to take back the goverment you wrong read the writing's of thomas jefferson or the federalist paper's or the writing's of ben franklin and just try and dispute those fact's.You Cant!!!
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 1:00:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 4:26:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tdkak: It really doe's not matter anymore were sunk sorry it's the truth. It should have never been let go as long as it has.The minute Clinton had signed that 1994 crime bill or anyone of those other guncontrol act's the the gunowner's should have invaded all the capitals and at point blank range made example's of every politician in the land. All us American's are Spineless,so scared of the repercushon's,so what,die standing up and in the face's of those who defy us.we are in the right so who care's lets start F#$kin shit up and retake control its the only way. Until then we better take it with a smile.Cause there is alot more comin and what is our alternatives? You cannot fight these people politicaly.So i say in plain term's do away with them. We have 48% of the populace are gun owners 140 some odd million if we could get just 1% to fight thats 1.4 million easy and we probably dont need that many? All you have to do is wait till all your lawmaker's are in session and then BAM over run them with overwelming force and firepower. Until we decide as a people to take it back by force cause we wont win with the "process" they own the process now. It's our choice,we either live with this or we do what seem's to be the next logical step, revolution! I'm sure John Jay,Paul Revere,Thomas Jefferson,James Madison,and Bengamin Franklin wouldnt mind in the least. And if you think the Framer's of the Constitution didnt include the right for us to take back the goverment you wrong read the writing's of thomas jefferson or the federalist paper's or the writing's of ben franklin and just try and dispute those fact's.You Cant!!!
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amen brother, amen.. so, when does the shootin start?
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 8:08:22 AM EDT
Please, you first! [:P]
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 9:43:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By snypah: Grant Boys? LOL....they are rip offs.
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I concur. And for a gun store, they're not freedom-friendly. Back before the most recent assault weapon ban, a friend made a private sale purchase of an Armalite and used Grant Boys to facilitate the sale as they were the closest FFL we could find to our office. I went along to check the rifle to make sure it was in good shape. Anyway, aside from being ignorant about the difference between a muzzle brake and a flash suppressor (as though either really makes a difference in crime rates), everyone in the store had a very bad attitude about the whole affair. There was a definite air of "those kinds of guns" in the way they handled
Try B&B (http://www.bnbsales.com) in Westminster
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?!?!?!? Maybe it's just me but I've never had really good luck or service there.
or Turners (http://www.turners.com) in Fountain Valley next time. They offer better selection and better pricing.
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I've had infinitely better luck with them (at a couple of different Turner's locations). I'm not sure about their policy on transfers, though.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 10:13:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wolfpack: During any presidential election I don't know why they don't just start off giving the dem the 45 electoral votes and paint the state blue. Why wait?
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Actually...that's exactly what the Republicans are doing. When planning for the big enchilada, CA's electoral votes are automatically listed in the loss column. And it's 54... [beer]
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 12:08:07 AM EDT
I have only wanted to hit only a few women in my life,Hillary,Sarah,and Diane.but do you know what would be best to have ole Jimmy Brady right by a flight of about 100 stairs at the end a brick wall. kick and yell,"ROLL YOU MOTHER....ER"!!!!!
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 12:19:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 11:32:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tdkak: I have only wanted to hit only a few women in my life,Hillary,Sarah,and Diane.but do you know what would be best to have ole Jimmy Brady right by a flight of about 100 stairs at the end a brick wall. kick and yell,"ROLL YOU MOTHER....ER"!!!!!
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Whoa... [shock] don't hold anything back man...tell us what you REALLY think! ( [whacko] ) Are you seeing a shrink for your problem? Is there another escape route from this room? [BD]
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 3:09:31 AM EDT
i dont know of any gun laws that calif republican Gov Wilson ever signed. duekamajian did sign the first AW ban, but that was after the first shooting on a school, if the shooting had not happened the bill would of died. politicians voted with there emotions and not there brains. DAMN!!! i didnt know LA was the ONLY place you could buy cheap $10 pistols on the corner, i thought you could do that in every town ...silly me
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 12:08:18 PM EDT
Part of the problem is also due to the gunners. Not all gun owners in Calif are pro-gun. I worked on a referendum to overturn SB23 and an initiative to a RKBA amendment to the Calif. Consitution. I was at several gunshows including the Great Western in Pomona CA, many gunner would not sign the paper becaue they were afraid that they were going to be put on a list. BUT those same SOBs willingly put their names on a list to win a free car. Where is CRPA(pronounced crap-pa) on this? They should be leading the charge up the hill. In the 10 years that I have been active politically, I have never ever seen anyone representing CRPA at any political functions, except at their annual awards dinner where they pat themselves on the back. Other than that everything is just dandy, behind the enemy lines.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 12:37:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 12:37:32 PM EDT
Write letters. Vote. Make your voice heard. And this is not a liberal versus consevative issue. The problem is that so few people can think more critically than a boiled turnip. Just turns out that a lot of liberals have been boiled a little longer.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 1:23:38 PM EDT
warlord, CRPA is involved in quite a few law suits and they have had good success in keeping cities such as San Francisco, Pleasanton and Walnut Creek from passing their own local AW bans. They are doing things behind the scenes.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 2:03:12 PM EDT
I left the People's Republic of Kalifornia in 1966 and will never go back. I hate the place. 7th
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 9:19:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mattja: warlord, CRPA is involved in quite a few law suits and they have had good success in keeping cities such as San Francisco, Pleasanton and Walnut Creek from passing their own local AW bans. They are doing things behind the scenes.
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Yes, I am aware of those lawsuits, but I think CRPA should have more a presence in terms of grassroots movements. We have a bunch of unco-ordinated local NRA members councils groups that not very effective. CRPA is one of the largest state level 2nd Amend rights in the country. Where was the CRPA when we were trying to overturn SB23 and adding the RKBA Amend to the Calif. constitution? It was led by Geoff Metcalf of San Francisco radio station KSFO. This is a job of CRPA, not Geoff Metcalf. Politico types are not afraid of individuals but they are afraid of co-ordinated state-wide groups. Frankly, I'm getting old, and I can't wait 10-20 years for them to go thru the courts to overturn an unconstitutional law.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 1:30:29 AM EDT
I'm tired of waiting too. Both CRPA and NRA-ILA are busy working the legal angle in CA and doing a fairly good job. Perhaps they feel keeping a low profile, working the courts, is the best way to go in CA? I don't know, but I would like them to take a more active role in the public media. That's what we're paying for. Have you contacted CRPA about SB23 to voice your opinion? I didn't know about that Geoff Metcalf deal at all. Is there more information on the web about what he did so I can research it and send an e-mail to CRPA?
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 2:16:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 3:11:51 AM EDT
Big_Bear, perhaps yourself, warlord, and I should write a few letters to CRPA to express our dissatisfaction with their efforts? Someone has to let them know how the membership feels. Why not us?
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 3:22:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2002 3:23:09 AM EDT by warlord]
Originally Posted By mattja: Big_Bear, perhaps yourself, warlord, and I should write a few letters to CRPA to express our dissatisfaction with their efforts? Someone has to let them know how the membership feels. Why not us?
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Personally, I don't think it would do a lot of good. The leadership is a lot of CRPA(Calif. Rifle & Pistol) are hunting people, get the drift. They are not really super concerned about the "black gun" folks. It was the NRA who said at one that it is easier to prevent a bill from becoming law by not electing the gun-banners to office first place, but I think there is too much of those democratic leaning voters in our state. I think NRA/ILA & CRPA, 2nd Amend Foundation is doing a creditable job, but I think NRA/ILA & CRPA could do more.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 3:33:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 4:20:50 AM EDT
I hope you guys still living in La La Land win. I really do. I hope you can somehow stem this growing tide of anti-gunners from stealing any more of your rights and continuing to turn that crazy-quilt place farther and farther to the left. Having said that...I really don't think it's gonna happen. Just look at the demographics and ask yourselves this: Why is it that the Dems love the porous borders so much? Each new immigrant, legal or otherwise is another potential Democrat. That is why the LA megalopolis and Frisco and its burbs rule the state now. Remember the intense campaign to register, legally or not, all of the "new citizens" in Orange County in 1996? Could it be that B-1Bob Dornan was right in his allegations of voter fraud and that his loss to Sanchez really was due to thousands of illegals being enfranchised at the last minute by the Dems? If you can somehow get the anti-gun laws into state court, I don't see much of a chance on winning. If you go the federal court path, then you soon run into the US 9th Circuit, which is the most liberal circuit in the nation...packed with ACLU members. (Note, I did not say "former ACLU members"?) Good luck there. Sorry...I just don't think you are going to win. California is closer to being a giant northeastern liberal state or a european state than the rugged individualistic model of her bordering neighbors. The reason is simple: With this huge population density in the metro areas, the unwashed and unaware want Big Guvmint to take care of them. Wasn't always that way either. Too bad...That's why we fled in '96. Living FREE is really great. That is NOT a gloat...simply FACT. I wish you hangers-on well. [V]
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 5:06:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LWilde: Remember the intense campaign to register, legally or not, all of the "new citizens" in Orange County in 1996? Could it be that B-1Bob Dornan was right in his allegations of voter fraud and that his loss to Sanchez really was due to thousands of illegals being enfranchised at the last minute by the Dems?
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I worked on his re-election campaign. I made a lot of telephone calls to Republican most-likely-to-vote voters his district; man did I get some really chilly responses, THESE PEOPLE WERE REPUBLICANS!, like "I wouldn't vote for him if he was the last man on earth," "f'ck that @$$hole." Since the Democrats were in charge back then, they just blew him off. The Demos have some real high priorities and one of them is more gun control laws designed to deflect criticism of the various failed debacles, such as "electricity de-regulation," failed education system. Even with the state up to its ears in $12 Billion cost of electricity, the legislature/governor still passes the firearm licensing law. But we have only to blame. Most gunners don't want to get involved in politics because they have their guns already and granfather in, witnessed licensed AR15s. It is the future generations that won't get these guns. What a terrible selfish gesture. But all you folks outside of Calif. don't think you are safe. Think back where the original assualt weapon laws started, and evolved into a federal one. All it takes is another Bill Clinton-type to get elected to office. Come to think about it, how many votes did Al Gore lose to GWB in Florida out of how many people who actually voted. You can run, but you can't hide.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 5:42:58 AM EDT
Last I heard DiFi had given up her CCW due to protests of hypocrisy but then got herself appointed as a Marshall so she can still carry concealed. Has this changed? I was born and raised in the PRK back when it was still a decent place to live. Got out in '87 and moved to Idaho and haven't looked back. It's nice living in a state where FA weapons & EBRs are common sights at the ranges... Tomac
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