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Posted: 12/31/2001 3:19:13 PM EDT
He was a 3-year old Lab-Chow mix. He was probably the prettiest dog I've ever seen. He belonged to my daughter and her (now ex-)husband. The ex used to beat him, so my wife and I took him at about 7 months old. I told my wife I really didn't have time to train a dog, but we felt like we had to get him out of that situation (too bad I couldn't do the same for my daughter, but she finally figured it out). Anyway, the dog was really hyper - he had two speeds, still and bouncing-off-the-walls. He was very destructive (to the tune of about a dozen pairs of shoes, innumerable kitchen implements, books, etc.) I'd had a Lab before and she was destructive, but she grew out of it. I figured he would too. When my daughter moved back home with her two toddlers, the dog started destroying the kids toys. When he ran through the house, he'd knock the kids down sometimes - he weighed about 45 lbs. by that time - but he was very protective of them. We finally decided that he couldn't be an inside dog, so he was relegated to the back yard.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 3:19:56 PM EDT
Very quickly he learned that a six-foot fence wasn't an obstacle, and he'd be out running around the neighborhood at will, returning when he felt like it. So, I had to put him on a leash, about 20'. This is against the law in my county by the way. Can't tether a dog in your yard. So, he'd get himself tangled around a tree, or a bush, or the porch supports, or whatever and have about 2' of free play. Untangling him was a four-time-a-day exercise or more. He broke his tether (a steel cable), broke his collar, and slipped his collar several times. The last two times he did it, it was during the day while my daughter was home. She tried to get him to come home, but instead he was chasing children - agressively. His fur was up, and his teeth were bared, and he was very menacing. Last month he tried to bite my neice (whom he did not know) when she came over to the house. My wife and I discussed it, and decided that he was too dangerous. Sooner or later he was going to get loose and bite someone - probably a child. Because of his behavioral problems, he was not adoptable. Our only other option was a long and expensive period of drug therapy and training. If I had the time for training, I'd have been doing it. I was not willing to keep him drugged. I discussed it with my vet (hoping she'd talk me out of it) but she concurred. So, I put him down this morning. I held him in my lap while the drugs took effect, and petted him until his heart and breathing stopped. I feel like shit. That dog loved me. I think he realized that I saved him from being abused, and he was always ecstatic to see me. He trusted me, and I killed him. Dammit, sometimes life sucks. Happy freaking New Year. No more dogs for a while. This was too hard.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 3:31:35 PM EDT
Sorry to hear that. At least you gave the dog some time away from an abusive situation. You did what you had to do, be confident knowing that you were the one making the decision and not a judge. Peace man.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 3:34:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 3:38:25 PM EDT
Man, I'm sorry. You didn't kill him, you put him out of his misery. Take care.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 3:40:09 PM EDT
That's the problem. It really wasn't his fault - I failed [i]him[/i]. But he paid the price.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 3:45:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 3:45:37 PM EDT
Tough call. You'd feel even shittier if the dog had've chewed up some kid, though. Another day and another dog. Give it some time and you'll get a chance to get a dog that isn't such a potential problem. Good Luck.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 3:56:03 PM EDT
I guess your daughter should feel lucky that she behaved when she was little, and wasn't a fence jumper, eh? Dogs are like kids, only dogs learn faster and never develop that annoying speech thing. The simple answer to this is that you or your daughter needed to take the time to train the dog. Period. And drugs don't even enter into it, dogs don't need tranks to be trained, Ritalin is prescribed for kids that no one wants to train, not animals. Or you should have found him another home right away, instead of making him worse by leaving him outside or chained. People who treat dogs like objects shouldn't have them. Being seperated from their family is the worst punishment you can do to a dog. Of course he went mean, he thought he was always being punished! Restricting the dog's access to the entire house was another great idea you missed completely. Baby gates, kennels, and supervision work wonders, and certainly would have stopped him from running through the house. If he chewed up stuff he found, well, PICK IT UP! Keep the floors free of debris, it might be a good thing for the kids to learn now too. Did you ever even *talk* to a trainer? Try a newsgroup dealing with dog training? Even look for a damned message board dealing with dog training?? Some dogs that are rescued have come from abusive backgrounds, and with patience and training, have become wonderful pets. This creature loved you, and you disposed of him because no one could be bothered to teach him right from wrong. Perhaps even the time you waste on the internet might have been enough to start his training. You *should* feel bad, you let him down and then had him killed for being inconvenient. Shame!
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 4:26:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 4:47:18 PM EDT
Beekeeper, from what he wrote, I saw that he did very little for this dog, other than feed it. It was sad, but could have all been fixed with a little work and training. Same as most kids today. I don't believe in throwaway kids OR dogs. Sorry to disappoint you.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 4:48:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch: I guess your daughter should feel lucky that she behaved when she was little, and wasn't a fence jumper, eh? Dogs are like kids, only dogs learn faster and never develop that annoying speech thing.
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I "acquired" my daughter at age 15 when I married her mother. She developed that annoying speech thing several years before I met her.
The simple answer to this is that you or your daughter needed to take the time to train the dog. Period.
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Yes, I should. I did try, some, but not enough. He needed far more time than I had.
And drugs don't even enter into it, dogs don't need tranks to be trained, Ritalin is prescribed for kids that no one wants to train, not animals.
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I've never used drugs in training a dog. The vet's comment was drugs and "intensive training".
Or you should have found him another home right away, instead of making him worse by leaving him outside or chained.
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I tried. Where were you? Nobody else was willing to take him.
People who treat dogs like objects shouldn't have them.
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I agree.
Being seperated from their family is the worst punishment you can do to a dog. Of course he went mean, he thought he was always being punished!
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He didn't "go mean" - he was always very aggressive towards strangers. And even when he was punished, it didn't get through to him. He [i]liked[/i] being outside. Corporal punishment didn't work because he reacted like he was being beaten - terror. What the hell was I supposed to do? Harsh language? That didn't work either.
Restricting the dog's access to the entire house was another great idea you missed completely. Baby gates, kennels, and supervision work wonders, and certainly would have stopped him from running through the house.
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The dog went over a 6' fence. A baby gate (tried it) didn't phase him. A kennel is just another cage. Isolate him in one room and he'd destroy furniture. And how much supervision can I give him if I'm at work?
If he chewed up stuff he found, well, PICK IT UP! Keep the floors free of debris, it might be a good thing for the kids to learn now too.
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Obviously you've never lived in a house with a 1 and 2 year-old.
Did you ever even *talk* to a trainer? Try a newsgroup dealing with dog training? Even look for a damned message board dealing with dog training?? Some dogs that are rescued have come from abusive backgrounds, and with patience and training, have become wonderful pets. This creature loved you, and you disposed of him because no one could be bothered to teach him right from wrong.
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Yes. And I still failed him.
Perhaps even the time you waste on the internet might have been enough to start his training. You *should* feel bad, you let him down and then had him killed for being inconvenient. Shame!
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No, if inconvenience was the only thing, he'd still be alive. I killed him because I thought he'd hurt someone. And I am ashamed that I failed him.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 4:48:59 PM EDT
hannah, If only time could be turned back. Since your convictions are so strong, perhaps you should have taken the dogs place and saved us from hearing your insensitive drivel. KBaker, It was a tough decision and endeavor you had to endure, you shouldn't have to deflect sh1t from a gaping anus, to boot.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 4:59:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2001 5:00:14 PM EDT by xanadu]
Hannah, I've got a step mother in law like you. She has forsaken her marriage and children to be the crusader to all dogs. What is more precious to you, a human life or an animal life? God put animals on the earth to serve man. At a point when the animal is a danger to his master (any person), the animal has to be taken out of the equation. Man has progressed to the point that we do this in a humane way, unlike the old yeller days where a 10 cent bullet solved the problem. This guy did the only thing that was a realistic option to him. Unfortunate...yes. Wrong....No. He did the right thing.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 4:59:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2001 5:01:40 PM EDT by TermiteDan]
I have had to put down a few over the years. Unfortunately I have an old dog now that is on the edge, and I know this job is going to tear me up. This one is a very gentle loving dog, and all my friends kids were/are completely safe around him. The only people he hates is the mailman and the UPS guy. Sometime you have to do it because you love em. It hurts to see an old friend in pain. That's when it's the hardest.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:00:16 PM EDT
I *have* raised rescue dogs, and rehomed them when I was over the legal limit for animals, AFTER they were trained and worked with. Don't give me that crap, I don't buy it. I said he should have relinquished the dog when he first got it, if he didn't have time for it. And as for that "take a few home with you...." garbage, I have said the same thing to anti abortion protestors before..... Difference being, I HAVE taken the dogs home, and the "pro-lifers" never seem to take any unwanted crack babies home with them... Sorry if I didnt make the right noises to this guy, but he is so typical of the "dogs are disposable and I dont have time anyway" folks, it just made me angry.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:05:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch: Sorry if I didnt make the right noises to this guy, but he is so typical of the "dogs are disposable and I dont have time anyway" folks, it just made me angry.
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Goddamnit, it makes me angry too. I could not find a home for the dog. I took him rather than see him go to the dog pound to be euthanized five days later, even though I [i]knew[/i] I was not able to give him the care he really needed. I fvcked up, but I though that he'd at least have a decent life. If he had not threatened to bite children, he'd still be alive. Do you understand?
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:06:38 PM EDT
Yes, KBaker, sorry for your pain. Must have been hard on you too.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:08:01 PM EDT
Sorry if I didnt make the right noises to this guy, but he is so typical of the "dogs are disposable and I dont have time anyway" folks, it just made me angry.
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Everybody's situation is different, walk a mile in his shoes before jumping his ass.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:38:03 PM EDT
KBaker, My condolences. It must have been very hard. We lost our best friend three years ago. Our golden retriever had been with us for nearly 15 years. We got home from my company's Christmas party that Christmas Eve and saw immediately that he was failing fast. A quick run to the vet ER and the doc said he was bleeding out internally and sinking fast. He had been sick off and on for a couple of years and we knew his liver was failing him. Still...our decision to put the old guy down was the most painful decision we ever had to make...but not the most difficult. We knew it would finally free him from the pain he was suffering. My wife couldn't stay in the treatment room so I went in with the vet and the Old Guy. I scrateched his ears and spoke gently to him as he left us peacefully. I cried like a baby for an hour. Hannah...ease up and give KB some peace on this. He doesn't need your sorry advice just now. Your self righteous blathering is painful to us all. You weren't there...and you don't have a real clue what really transpired. You should keep such hurtful words to yourself. Do us all a favor and go away. Happy New Year to YOU ALL...even you Hannah.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:39:07 PM EDT
I know how it feels. There's a limit to the acceptable amount of effort one can put into a dog with problems such as this. The overall factor to consider is the danger to people or other animals. My shepherd died suddenly a month ago. He was great with people and my kids, but we couldn't let him run loose because the few neighbors we have have cats and he hated cats with a passion. He's killed two and ripped one of them up in front of the owners. He was older than the kids so they didn't know what life was without him and took it really hard when he died. I had to get rid of a pointer some years ago because he had separation anxiety and would piss all over the floor if you left the room without him and he was too aggressive with kids. I was likey in that I was able to give him back to the breeder (a relative) in which he is now kenneled with his mother and brother. He's strictly a hunting dog now and won't be a family pet or house dog. I've also had to put down one of my little hunting buddies (Beagle) who was parylized after being hit by a car. The saddest thing I ever had to do was to take him over to my parents to say goodbye the day I had him put down. I've lost a few dogs over the years and everytime I question getting another, but the grief soon passes. Dogs can be best friends and members of the family but don't let them run your life or destroy it.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:43:27 PM EDT
My condolences, KBaker. It isn't easy putting down a Lab-mix. The people who trained him to be mean, whether accidentaly or purposely, sealed the dog's fate. It took courage to try and save the dog. After a while, you will likely want a Lab-mut again. I know I do.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:45:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:52:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By LWilde: You should keep such hurtful words to yourself. Do us all a favor and go away.
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Hey, Christ, you're as bad as she was. Your first sentence above is correct, but as far as inviting her to leave, you are way out of line, IMO. She is normally a great contributor to the Board. This is the full moon time I guess. How about if everyone goes outside, howls for ten minutes, then come back and be civil. We all had better hang together. See you at the Convention. [:)]
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Opinion noted and appreciated. I see your point and I didn't mean literally go away...just a request to cease such painful words.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:21:12 PM EDT
I am sorry. I have the flu tonight, but that was no reason to jump poor KBaker. I have gone out and howled at the moon, and seen the error of my ways. Sorry sorry sorry. I too have had to put old sick dogs down, I know it sucks.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:23:15 PM EDT
KBaker: It's a painful, but necessary act. I have a large dog (a Rhodesian Ridgeback, male, 120 lbs) that is three years old, and is a terror if you are the mailman. During the day, when my wife and I are at work, he stays in the house, in a large cage. He has been crated since he was a puppy, and he looks upon the cage as his "personal space", and not confinement. Without the cage, he'd be over the fences and running loose. There isn't a restraint that his determined nature couldn't defeat. You have devoted a lot to this dog, and although difficult, you made the right decision. If my dog's behaviour was agressive, and ther ewas a potential for him to come in contact with the neighborhood kids / meter reader / gardner / etc., then I would reach the same regretful decision you did. You gave your dog a chance, a loving home, and tried to work things out. You also had the wisdom to know that thinks were unredeemable, and that the correct, though painful decision was to put him down. The only regret was that it didn't work out for this dog. Don't give up - you may do very well in the future, if your heart is in raising another dog.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:35:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KBaker: That's the problem. It really wasn't his fault - I failed [i]him[/i]. But he paid the price.
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I know you did not fail him because you could not have failed him. He was already destroyed by the abuser well before you. The peculiar make-up of Chows, I'm betting the Chow part was dominant, demands loyalty and respect from both the dog and the owner from a very early age. These animals are extremely territorial and protective so they must be loved and socialized from an early age. This animal was abused and not socialized. The absuer pronounced the death sentence not you. (I'm going to split my posts.)
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:45:10 PM EDT
An attempt at small humor. I lost my 14.5 year old Chow Leroy. Had an inoperable tumor. Anyway I had him cremated, the ashes put in a simple wooden box and a brass plaque with his name, etc., on the plaque. Put his ashes on the bookshelves with the family pictures, etc. Anyway about two weeks later my wife and I were watching TV, started talking about Leroy, I muted the tube so we could continue to talk and we were both looking over at him on the bookshelf. About that time one end of the plaque started slipping and eventually pointed straight down. Before my wife could say anothing I said "I don't know what you think but I'm damn sure the glue let loose !! The plaque is now on "top" of the box. [smoke]
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:57:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch: I am sorry. I have the flu tonight, but that was no reason to jump poor KBaker. I have gone out and howled at the moon, and seen the error of my ways. Sorry sorry sorry. I too have had to put old sick dogs down, I know it sucks.
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This takes a special kind of fortitude. I got a little hot also Hannah, so please forgive me as well. Beekeeper is right, regardless of our various disagreements on the board, we had all better hang together. To be able to disagree and still have respect for each other is still one of the greatest gifts we have as a community.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:15:11 PM EDT
Thanks Xanadu, This has been a rough time lately here. One of my best dogs has been having seizures suddenly, and we have been going through hell trying to get his meds balanced out and the dosage right. I could still lose him, either prematurely a few years from now, from his meds, or suddenly, if he goes Status Epilepticus on us. He is the biggest, most beautiful, and the most agreeable, best trained of our pack, and I have been really stressed about it. The thought of losing a 2 year old dog with such promise just kills me. I guess that and the flu, and I just went *off* on poor KBaker. I have no excuse, I should have been more compassionate. I didn't mean to sound like such a bitch. You did what you had to do, KBaker, 5subslr5 hit it right on the nose.....this dog was doomed because of the real abuser, not from what you did. And thank heavens he didn't bite a child.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:33:47 PM EDT
I have a friend who has a little girl who's now about five. When this little girl was two, my friend took her child over to her mother-in-law's house. The grandmother came to the front door and was met by my friend and her daughter. The little girl says 'Hi, Granny', when all of a sudden the mother-in-law's Pomeranian comes running in from the den, leaps up on the little girls and bites the dickens out of her! I saw my friend later that day, and she was still shaken up over the event. She tells me that her mother-in-law took the Pomeranian to the vet and had it put to sleep within two hours of the attack! Lord, I thought to myself, I'm not certain but that the mother-in-law seriously overreacted to what her dog had done to her grandchild. It was about two years later, when I saw my friend and her little girl, who was now four. It was the first time I saw the little girl since she had been bitten by the Pomeranian. She had a [u]very[/u] noticeable scar on her lip, and a [u]very[/u] noticeable scar on her cheek. Otherwise, a darling little girl, but for the scars! Now, I think [u]if[/u] it had been my dog that had done that to my little granddaughter, I would not have taken it to the vet to be put down. I would have done the job myself! Eric The(Seriously)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:40:03 PM EDT
Yeah HUN, that's a fine "macho" statement but let me say this about that....Happy New Year !! [beer]
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:41:45 PM EDT
Happy New Year to you too, 5subslr5! [>]:)]
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:46:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch: You did what you had to do, KBaker, 5subslr5 hit it right on the nose.....this dog was doomed because of the real abuser, not from what you did. And thank heavens he didn't bite a child.
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Apology accepted. Sorry to hear about the trouble you're having. Wish you luck. It's going to take me a while to get over this. I've lost one dog to renal failure and another to old age. To put down a healthy, beautiful, goofy friend due to risk was... There aren't words.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 8:53:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch: I am sorry. I have the flu tonight, but that was no reason to jump poor KBaker. I have gone out and howled at the moon, and seen the error of my ways. Sorry sorry sorry. I too have had to put old sick dogs down, I know it sucks.
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Hannah_Reitsch, I revisited this thread expecting to see a stubborn defense to your views and instead found this. I'll take a hearty second helping of crow now, if you please. Sorry for the harsh words, my dad taught me that two wrongs don't make a right. I forget every now and then. Happy New Year.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 9:22:03 PM EDT
Sorry to hear about your dog. Hope the New Year is better for you.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 9:32:14 PM EDT
Many will say you had other options........don't be swayed by that. I had to go through the same thing with a cat once (course cats don't have souls ha ha) You did the right thing KB. Right now, My Jack...."Maggie" is the brightest spot in my life. Bought as a B-day gift for my ex-step-son when he turned 7, she was mine from the get go. Has a lot to do with the fact that I drove 375 miles to get her and that we permanently bonded during that return trip but the kid never cared for her from the beginning and she and I became best pals and I became a Dog Daddy. She will be a year old on 9 JAN. Shoulda known when my wife (ex) and the boy did not get on with Mags that there was something wrong with em' both. Now I know there was. You hang in there dude and Happy New Year to you and yours!
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 1:10:05 AM EDT
Sorry to hear about your situation KB. It is always hard to put a dog down like that. We had a similar situation last year with a rescue dog. The dog was wonderful with people, really sweet, but very aggressive with other dogs, especially submisive dogs. Her behavior was very unpredictable making training difficult. Finally while we were on vacation it brutally attacked our friends dog while they were watching it. There were no signs of impending aggression, calm then boom. We loved this dog but couldn't risk it as what if it found a submissive child. The last thing in the world I think of dogs is that they are disposable. Most of you have seen my girls several times on these pages as they are my children. But they are still dogs (even though I tend to forget that at times) and man comes before dog. Always better to destroy a dog than to find out you should have when it is too late.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 1:20:47 AM EDT
Hannah- Sorry to hear about the seizures, there seems to be a lot of that going around lately. I have and show two Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs and this condition is relatively prevalant in the breed. I personally know three dogs who have had seizures. With two the situation never recurred (yet) after periods of ten and six months. Another is on medication and has not had a recurrence since. I know this doesn't help but I just wanted you to know that you are not alone. Next to bloat, this is our biggest fear. I hope you find the correct balance in the meds. Our prayers are with your pooch.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 3:04:46 AM EDT
Not to pick on anyone here... My Brother has one of those little furry things that looks kind of like a dog. He has had it for over 6 years now. When it was 4 years old it got loose (neighbors kid let it loose) and it was run over by a car. It took about $1200 to fix it, my Brothers wife and kids were the decieding factors. 6 months ago it came up with a case or terminal cancer. The vet said there was nothing to do about it, chemo and radiation might extend its life a few months, but it would probably be dead before the end of the year. This time the decision was made to make its life as comfortable as possible and when it was obvious that its quality of life was gone then it was time for it to be put down. My Brothers wife tells the neighborhood animal lover about the problem, she about goes ballistic on my Brother, yelling at him to do everything possible to save/extend the animals life. The cost of the chemo/radiation treatment? Over $1500, that and then they would have to care for it just like a human who underwent chemo/radiation treatment. He took this bitches whining for about two weeks, then one day after she had made a scene at his house he took the dog over to her house along with the leash, dog bowl and the number of the clinic to treat the dog. He told her that if she was that concerned over the dog then she should spend the money on the dog and take care of it. He told her that he would be back to pick it up when it had either died or it was cured. That bitch about had a screaming hissy fit...her husband came to the door and took her inside, my brother took the dog back home and that bitch hasen't bothered him or the family since. In November my Brother took the dog to the vet to have two of the bigger tumors removed so the dog could eat and walk. It is still running around, the vet is amazed that it is still alive. It cost just under $300 to have the tumors removed, the vet did the surgery for the cost of the medicne as a training surgery for some vet wanna-be students from the local high school.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 5:07:01 AM EDT
It cost just under $300 to have the tumors removed, the vet did the surgery for the cost of the medicne as a training surgery for some vet wanna-be students from the local high school.
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if these studebts could do that i have but oner thing to say, maby come schools are worth sending yore kids to.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 5:36:49 AM EDT
I have had at least one dog at a time all of my life. I like dogs better than most people. Your son-in-law would most likely be carrying his teeth in his back pocket had it been me. I am lucky enough to hava a job where my Weimeraner HEIDI goes to work with me every day. She is my constant companion. I'm so sorry . I know how you feel
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 5:58:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch: I am sorry. I have the flu tonight, but that was no reason to jump poor KBaker. I have gone out and howled at the moon, and seen the error of my ways. Sorry sorry sorry. I too have had to put old sick dogs down, I know it sucks.
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Hannah, Don't keep that feeling long. Your reponse was well intended and visceral. We know you really didn't mean it anyway. Welcome back. Flame pants are on again and ready for action! [;)]
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