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Posted: 12/29/2001 7:19:23 PM EDT
I have a potentially serious problem with my '89 toyota 4x4 (4 cylinder) that I would love to get some helpful advice about. Started out half way through a 500 mile trip a couple of weeks ago. Truck has 140k on it. I was driving a back road with lots of curves and hills and I noticed it starting to hesitate in the higher gears unless I really tacked it out. Arriving in town I found it would shake violently and stall out while sitting at a traffic light unless I took it out of gear and kept my foot on the excellerator. Thinking it was water in the tank I got a can of HEAT and put it in the next time I filled up. I drove that one almost dry and put in a bottle of injector cleaner in the next one. No luck. I did notice that I had none of these problems when the engine was cold, only after it warmed up. I took it into a mechanic the next week (probably not a good one) and got a new fuel filter and a tune up. He also "took up some slack" in the throttle cable (which I could have done). Well the throttle cable trick has temporarily solved my stalling while ideling problem but the truck still hesitates very badly unless I really tack it out. Again, the problem only occurs after the truck is warmed up, when its cold it runs fine. My gas mileage seems to have also dropped, but I haven't bothered to calculate it. My next move is a new fuel pump. Any suggestions? I'd really appreciate it.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 7:29:32 PM EDT
Automatic tranny?
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 7:40:57 PM EDT
Standard.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 7:56:44 PM EDT
You said that you had to take it out of gear and rev it to keep it from dying. You couldn't just push in the clutch and rev it?
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 8:07:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jesterdog: You said that you had to take it out of gear and rev it to keep it from dying. You couldn't just push in the clutch and rev it?
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Sorry, guess that may have been confusing. Pushing the clutch in and reving it also kept it from dying, but my town is built in a hilly area and to keep from rolling back I had to keep my other foot on the break at stop lights. Thanks for replying.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 8:23:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By misanthrope:
Originally Posted By jesterdog: You said that you had to take it out of gear and rev it to keep it from dying. You couldn't just push in the clutch and rev it?
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Sorry, guess that may have been confusing. Pushing the clutch in and reving it also kept it from dying, but my town is built in a hilly area and to keep from rolling back I had to keep my other foot on the break at stop lights. Thanks for replying.
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I used to have the same model toyota that did the same thing. I just thought it was one of the querks like the grinding sound from the front axle on tight turns. I learned to keep one foot on the clutch while using my other foot to press both the break and the gas.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 8:43:52 PM EDT
do a compression check. you will find a cylinder that has either no reading or it will be very low. that cylinder has a burnt valve. it will most likely be an exhaust valve. i hope i'm wrong. i just shelled out $300 + and did all the labor.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 8:52:43 PM EDT
If the fuel pump is bad you would have more problem at higher rpm due to lack of fuel. 89s are fuel injected aren't they? If not I would suspect that the float in the carb is stuck, causing it to flood at low rpm. Did the "mechanic" do a full tune-up (plugs,wires,cap,rotor and air filter)?
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:01:55 PM EDT
If you could have fixed the throttle cable why didn't you? Your timing chain is grinding a hole through your timing cover as we speak. This engine has a hydraulic chain tensioner that goes out at 140,000. Even though you could probably repair that yourself, and probably already knew it wasn't a big problem,soon your antifreeze will appear milky and because of that your bearings will shed their lead.Your engine, although you failed to mention it, is the 22RE. If you really want it diagnosed on the Internet you may also want to reveal your calibration number.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:08:06 PM EDT
Grimshaw, are you a mechanic?
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:09:32 PM EDT
I am assuming its a 22R-I engine if so at 140K with the symptoms you have check the timing chain (as well as the compression check to rule out the valves) when the slack in the chain gets beyond the ability of the tensioner to keep it tight the chain can jump throwing the cam timing out especially at idle - low end. The computer advances the timing at start up and until it warms up. You can adjust the distributor and get the idle back for a min or two but then the comp will adjust to the crank trigger and negate your adjustment the computer cannot sense that mechanical timing is out--- the ignition timing is electronic on the 22r series and the computer can advance or retard the ignition timing a little making up for the jump somewhat but usually after a bit it will stop running altogether or start overheating. besides that other than the burnt or stuck valve mentioned above check the timing and also chek for oil in the radiator indicating a headgasket problem or crack in the block or head. I have fixed about 5 22R's with roughly the same symptoms you describe and 4 of them were timing chain issues the other was a cracked head and was running really badly and had steam coming out the exhaust with astrong antifreeeze smell.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:13:13 PM EDT
Da,Ya etot mekanik!
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:14:30 PM EDT
If it *is* a burnt valve, do it yourself. Frankly, you're better off just buying a new (reconditioned) head and sticking it on yerself. Fairly simple, a good day's work. Just be sure to LABEL, or you'll pay hell gettin' it back on! And BTW, the tensioning chain is not automatically due to expire at 140,000, my 22RE is at 170,000 with nary a hint at chain issues. Hey Grimshaw, no need for the sarcasm, eh? Remember, not everyone knows what they're doing with cars. Hell, most folks don't even know where the oil goes! It's a 22RE. so it *will* take much abuse. May wanna check valve adjustment and vaccum hoses, as well. Now, if I could just find a SIMPLE way to replace my front oil pump gasket, MY 4Runner would be BACK on the road! Maybe I'll never change it! A new quart of oil a week = never having to change the oil, just a new filter periodically!!![:D]
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:26:14 PM EDT
140 is about when they seem to go if they are going to and its not the tensioner that wears out just reaches the end of its travel due to chain stretch but the nylon shoe at the end can wear out --they give you a new one with the chain set usually. If it turns out to be the valve and you do a head replacement do the chain as well if it hasnt gone it will soon.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:37:06 PM EDT
Its really pointless to try and teach someone how to repair this engine. Its too complicated for a beginner. He gets the sarcasm because he is a "problem customer".They always come with a bad story about the last guy that fixed his car.And he'll have a bad one on you too. I have learned to spot these guys. They deserve to walk. Misanthrope. You need a mechanic. Here's how to find one and keep him. Unplug your heater motor. Take it to to a guy you think you might trust, and ask him to look at it. If he comes with a bill saying something different than you already know, he cannot be trusted. once you find a guy that treats you honestly work WITH him to keep the business relationship.Don't be an asshole, sometimes you have to pay! After all its your car. When you buy or sell cars this guy can save you thousands. Think of it like a doctor patient relationship. He will feel a responsibility to keep you on the road, and you won't have consider trying Internet parts change schemes that will cost you more in the long run. Then again it sounds like a throttle position sensor. $178.00 or distributor pick-up. $95.00. If that doesn't fix it try the module.... The timing chain eventually eats a hole in the timing cover. 170,000? Wow! You are due! If you do the repair before the antifrz jacket leaks you'll save $400.00 for the timing cover. JBWeld fixes it half the time.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 11:51:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2001 11:55:37 PM EDT by Pthfndr]
Originally Posted By misanthrope: Again, the problem only occurs after the truck is warmed up, when its cold it runs fine. My gas mileage seems to have also dropped, but I haven't bothered to calculate it. My next move is a new fuel pump. Any suggestions? I'd really appreciate it.
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Sounds like the coolant temperture sensor has gone bad, or the connector for it is badly corroded. Typically when these go bad they do so in a way that gives a cold engine reading to the cars computer. Hence the reason it runs good cold but not warm and poor mileage (too much fuel). One way you can check to see if this may be the cause, when the engine is warmed up and starting to run rough rev the engine while you or someone else watches for black smoke out the tail pipe. If you are getting black smoke (not blue or white) you have narrowed things down to a fuel oversupply problem. Your problem is NOT the fuel pump. Timing chain would not likely cause the problem you described either - but at 140K may also need attention.
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 12:23:32 AM EDT
Damn... thanks to all those who replied. Guess it's off to find a decent mechanic. I appreciate the input. Misanthrope
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 4:22:49 AM EDT
I had a air flow meter (on top of the air filter box) go bad on my old 89 truck with a 22RE engine. It would open and close at it's own discression, which caused it to hesitate at just about any speed. To reasons it may not be your problem: It did it at any engine temperture, and I got "check engine" lights. I figured I'd mention it just to give you something else to think about. Jay
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 7:09:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2001 7:12:16 AM EDT by RNYC]
This link will tell you how to check the TPS: [url]http://4crawler.cruiserpages.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml[/url] If I have to get a new timing chain, I'm probably going to get one of these: [url]http://www.off-road.com/toyota/reviews/doaguides/[/url] edited to fix links
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 7:36:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2001 8:01:11 AM EDT by SBR7_11]
Advice from a MASTER TOYOTA TECHNICIAN:
Originally Posted By RNYC: This link will tell you how to check the TPS: [url]http://4crawler.cruiserpages.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml[/url]
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I have not had it clarified that the engine in question is carb or EFI. If indeed EFI, screw the link above to check the TPS. Take a jumper wire to set timing, with connector jumped, look at the "check engine" light on the dash. Is it flashing "51"? if it is, look at the TPS. Is the cover brown background, part # 89452-20030? If so, that sensor was updated yrs ago to 89452-20050, the '30s had a life problem. Go to your Toyota dealer and get the new part. Set it up per manual, using the 2 feeler gauge diagram, I can Fax if needed.
If I have to get a new timing chain, I'm probably going to get one of these: [url]http://www.off-road.com/toyota/reviews/doaguides/[/url
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Look at the cover, the idiot was lacking big time in the "oil change" dept. Use the Toyota oil filters, they have a valve to help hold oil up, so engine-tensioner gets oil right away. A fault with the tensioner is Toyota should have put a ratchet on the tensioner so it cannot collapse and rattle/beat the rails. Change the oil also. You need parts? Contact us: [url]www.airtoy.com[/url] The other fella with the oil pump leak, I assume you have oil sprayed across the front of the engine in line with the belts left and right. Remove the crank damper, remove the 5 bolts that hold the pump cover to the timing cover. Replace the O-ring there, and replace the seal in the cover. You may find you have a thick black seal, and the dealer will give you a thin brown seal, thats the new style, been out for yrs. BEFORE you re-assemble the damper on to the crank, CLEAN the crud off the shiny surface where the seal rides, AND INSTALL A FEL-PRO "stainless" sleeve to the damper. It is a sleeve that fits onto the nose of the damper, and provides a harder surface fro the seal to run on, as the damper is soft, and the seal cuts a groove. You will see it when you clean the damper nose. Also pack some grease in the oil pump so it will create vacuum and run oil quickly.
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 8:58:50 PM EDT
vapor lock?
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 9:02:53 PM EDT
I got your solution right here. Come buy my 1993 V6 4runner with only 148,000 miles on it. Runs like a champ!
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