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Posted: 12/28/2001 11:34:43 AM EDT
1) Do you believe "scientists" claim that global warming is occuring? a) If so, do you believe "scientists" claim that humanity is the major cause of global warming. b) If not, why do you doubt the "scientists" who are experts?
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 11:44:39 AM EDT
I believe that it's a possibility that global warming is occuring, but I don't believe that humanity is the major cause. As evidenced by previous ice ages, the earths climate changes with time and I don't believe there is enough evidence to pin it directly on humanity. It could just be a normal cycle. Obviously the global warming that occured to end the last ice age wasn't caused by humans, so I think they are jumping the gun by claiming the global warming that is now occuring, if it is, in fact, occuring, is all our fault or even mostly our fault. Just because you are an expert doesn't mean you are [b]always[/b] right. Also, there are many other "experts" that claim it doesn't have anything to do with greenhouse gases. Much like the debate that is still going on over the ozone layer, which many scientists claim is also a natural occurance that happens every so often. Also, many scientists have an agenda just like everybody else and can twist the facts to their favor. Kind of reminds me of my attorney, lot of people my think he's a son of a bitch, but he's my son of a bitch.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 11:47:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: 1) Do you believe "scientists" claim that global warming is occuring?
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The "scientists" need to check in with the folks in Buffalo, who are NOT globally warm.
a) If so, do you believe "scientists" claim that humanity is the major cause of global warming.
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HOT AIR from environazis are the main cause of the alleged global warming.
b) If not, why do you doubt the "scientists" who are experts?
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Ax yersef "Do they have an ax to grind?" If they "find" global warming, does that insrease their likelihood of getting a state, Federal or research grant? Seriously, they vassilate back and forth betwen a "new ice age" and "global warming" depending upon whether the last six months have been either warm or cold. I'm all for being a good steward and caretaker of what God gave us, but they really need to get their story straight (or just shut the #@!! up)
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 11:49:53 AM EDT
Global warming happens every day... ...then Global cooling takes place every night! :) Next we'll be hearing about the "greenhouse" effect, when a greenhouse operates very different from the Earth's atmosphere.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 11:54:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2001 11:54:36 AM EDT by Gloftoe]
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 11:55:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 12:00:15 PM EDT
global warming is a fact. it only takes a half-wit (me) with half-a-memory (mine) to tell you that growing up, it used to snow about 4 feet where i lived. now, they get none, zero, zip. seems pretty clear... scientists may be the experts, but not perfect. i doubt humans are the cause, we're probably just still coming off of the last ice age.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 12:02:10 PM EDT
Global warming is a good thing, right. Becareful how you answer that in Michigan.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 12:16:03 PM EDT
"There is no clear evidence, nor unique attribution, of the global effects of anthropogenic CO2 on climate. Meaningful integrated assessments of the environmental impacts of anthropogenic CO2 are not yet possible because model estimates of global and regional climate change on interannual, decadal and centennial time scales remain highly uncertain." [Environmental effects of increased atmospheric carbon dioxide. Climate Research, 13: 149-164] I'm not a scientist, nor do I play one on TV. But the guys that wrote the above, are. [:)]
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 12:16:04 PM EDT
The global warming "experts" rely on limited data to form a hypothesis, then receive millions of dollars to fund their studies to measure the magnitude of any warming. If their studies ever showed a hint that their hypothesis is wrong, funding would be immediately cut. Its no surprise their studies are patently suspect, if not flawed. Most studies are rigged to prove we are warming when in fact, the data is Gaussian noise with correalation coefficients near zero. Models of the effect of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere had ignored the effects of the water vapor contribution to global temperature regulation. I lost all faith in the global warming movement upon hearing this as carbon dioxide is but a pittance in greehouse effect compared to water vapor. Water vapor also limits incoming solar radiation (what is actually heating the earth) by increasing the albedio or reflectivity of the earth and by latent heat transfer via mass transfer to upper altitudes (precipitation is a major portion of heat rejection total of the earth). The scientists know the truth but this truth would kill their "goose that lays golden eggs". Sad and sick to see scientists stooping to the level of prostitutes.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 12:20:25 PM EDT
Buffalo NY got 6 feet of snow in about 3 days - breaking all local records. Global warming? HA!
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 12:22:12 PM EDT
fatty: global warming is a fact. it only takes a half-wit (me) with half-a-memory (mine) to tell you that growing up, it used to snow about 4 feet where i lived. now, they get none, zero, zip. seems pretty clear...
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fatty (just curious), you don't live in Buffalo NY, do you? [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 1:07:46 PM EDT
Weird, I was just thinking about this before I logged on. One observation, [i]if[/i] the planet is warming up, how come we haven't seen the ocean levels rise significantly? I was watching the Discovery on planet temperatrue fluctuations. They (scientist) always point to the fossil records of ocean levels. But if you notice, we haven't had much of a fluctuation in our current ocean levels. Therefore, I don't think that we are in global warming.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 1:13:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 1:28:47 PM EDT
when i was in High school there was an Ice age scare. now its global warming. they are both a crisis that requires strong government measure to correct. private industry is the enemy of course. one thing that is often overlooked is Geothermal warming that comes from the earth itself. warm underwater currents are more likely to melt our polar caps and cause the sea level to rise then constant temperture above 32f. a few scentists (if you can call them that) currently claim that higher sea levels are due to human industry. when has the temperature in the Arctic ever been above freezing and if so for how long and why? Geolib
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 1:34:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Guzzler: Weird, I was just thinking about this before I logged on. One observation, [i]if[/i] the planet is warming up, how come we haven't seen the ocean levels rise significantly? I was watching the Discovery on planet temperatrue fluctuations. They (scientist) always point to the fossil records of ocean levels. But if you notice, we haven't had much of a fluctuation in our current ocean levels. Therefore, I don't think that we are in global warming.
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Ocean levels would NOT rise if the Artic ice cap COMPLETELY melted. Its already floating, therebye displacing the EXACT SAME volume of water as if it were liquid. To melt the Antartic ice cap, temperatures would have to rise more than just a few degrees as land is quite insulative compared to water. The other fallacy is there is huge quantites of water that would be melted if the temperature were to rise a few degrees. Pure and utter nonsense.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 1:43:19 PM EDT
Re: Pop quiz, 1) Yes a) No If one listens to Rush Limbaugh, they'll say it's a myth. I guess he thinks it's the Liberal Media and the leftists who have an agenda. Maybe somebody well versed in talk radio can clear this up for me. But, if one reads various periodicals from many sources, they'll tend to agree there's a definite warming trend. I tend to side with the group who believe it's a trend. I am not convinced, though, that anyone has really determined the exact cause. I also believe that whatever is happening will change course someday and we'll have global cooling. We just might all be dead by then.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 1:55:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Keith_J: Ocean levels would NOT rise if the Artic ice cap COMPLETELY melted. Its already floating, therebye displacing the EXACT SAME volume of water as if it were liquid. To melt the Antartic ice cap, temperatures would have to rise more than just a few degrees as land is quite insulative compared to water. The other fallacy is there is huge quantites of water that would be melted if the temperature were to rise a few degrees. Pure and utter nonsense.
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Ok, then I am really confused about what I saw on the "boob-tube". I think it is time for some kitchen experimentation, just to satisfy my curiosity.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 2:05:05 PM EDT
I'm amazed at the trash that is taught in government school these days...young folks will fall for anything. There is no statistically significant evidence of global warming. Humans have only been keeping temperature records for a couple hundred years. That isn't sufficient to determine naturally occuring heating and cooling cycles. A change of a tenth of a degree over a decade means nothing in a statistical sense. Thirty years ago the "scientists" claimed global cooling was occuring and that mankind was causing another ice age. That dog didn't hunt, so they took the "global warming" approach. Look carefully at the "scientists" that are claiming global warming. It turns out that they are SOCIAL "SCIENTISTS" (psychologists, sociolologists - not climatologists who have real training in weather and its causes).
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 2:12:57 PM EDT
Global warming is a very real, very scary reality. The evil Republicans are to blame.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 2:13:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 2:41:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 2:44:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 2:48:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2001 3:11:29 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By DavidC: "There is no clear evidence, nor unique attribution, of the global effects of anthropogenic CO2 on climate. Meaningful integrated assessments of the environmental impacts of anthropogenic CO2 are not yet possible because model estimates of global and regional climate change on interannual, decadal and centennial time scales remain highly uncertain." [Environmental effects of increased atmospheric carbon dioxide. Climate Research, 13: 149-164] I'm not a scientist, nor do I play one on TV. But the guys that wrote the above, are. [:)]
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Good quote! Do you happen to know the year of this paper?
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 2:50:10 PM EDT
Yes global warming is taking place but it is cyclic... just like the ice ages. No humanity is not the cause... more carbon dioxide was dumped into the earth's atmosphere when Mt. Pinitubo erupted in the Phillipenes a few years ago than all of the exhaust emission from every single vehicle since the invention of the internal combustion engine combined. I doubt the 'experts' because of these little talked about scientific facts.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 2:56:32 PM EDT
What's after global warming? Nuclear winter?
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 3:11:09 PM EDT
The_Macallan - No idea when it's from. I pulled it from the archives at [url]http://www.junkscience.com[/url]
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 4:10:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: after the comming nuclear war and end of humanity as we know it global warming will not be a very large problem.
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Dude !! without exageration if I told you once I told you a mellon times - you've got to stop being so unfailingly "Up-Beat!" Next thing you'll have us all "taking a dirt nap." Now get off the "ludesNbeer" [:D]
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 4:42:22 PM EDT
The ice core studys are flawed in that the 'annual rings' have been found to be only heating and cooling cycles and not yearly at all. Two 'annual' rings can form in one day one in the daytime and one in the night. Several hundred were counted above the lost squadron on Greenland from the mid 40's. Planerench out. P.S. I'll still bet the ice core scientist get their grant money though.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 5:40:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 4:07:04 AM EDT
Carbon dating does not work either. In order for the dating to be at all accurate the level of carbon 14 in the atmosphere must have reached equalibrium and thus be a constant, it hasn't. No two labs come up with even relatively consistant numbers. Live animals have had their shells dated at 300+ years. BTW the level of carbon in the atmosphere was calculated to reach equalibrium in 30-50 thousand years. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 4:16:40 AM EDT
Carbon dating does not work either.
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Wait, let me guess: ALL evidence that the universe is more than 6000 years old is somehow fatally flawed, right? [;)]
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 12:57:56 PM EDT
YUP.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 1:52:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 1:58:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 2:01:44 PM EDT
I personally think that the sun causes global warming. I'm sure there is [b]something[/b] we sould do about that! Benefits of Global Warming: Arctic ice melt won't raise the water level significantly at all. Antarctic ice would only raise the level of the ocean about 3 inches or so, but with warmer temperatures, there would be more humidity in the atmosphere, thus dropping the water level back down to lower than it was before. There would also be more rainfall meaning that deserts would shrink and agriculture would expand. Millions who are starving might be saved, and we could be importing fine Canadian wine. Snowfalls in mountain areas would increase by 50% or more leading to a ski industry boom. Severe weather would be moderated due to a lack of severe cold fronts. Oceans would produce more fish due to increased plankton populations. Many endangered species could be brought back from the brink by increased prey numbers. These are many things that would take place if large scale global warming did take place. No one ever says this stuff on TV, but where would the panic be in that? The Eco-nuts are primairly anti-capitalist, and not pro-earth.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 3:27:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 3:51:59 PM EDT
[B]increased albedo = lower temperatures[/B]
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WHOA! Retard, recoil, go previous! If our albedo were to increase, the temperature on the planet would increase as well. Compounds like CO2 etc. are Infra-red radiation reflectors and are the reason we are able to heat the planet at all. Heat is emitted from our soil and reflected back at us by the IR reflecting compounds in the lower layers of our atmosphere. An example to illustrate my point is Venus; it's known as a 'runaway greenhouse' planet and it's albedo is extremely high (the highest of all planets in fact). It also has a surface temperature of around 730K (457degreesC). Why? Look at its atmospheric composition: Major components: 96.5% Carbon Dioxide (CO2), 3.5% Nitrogen (N2) Minor (ppm): Sulfur Dioxide (SO2) - 150; Argon (Ar) - 70; Water (H2O) - 20; Carbon Monoxide (CO) - 17; Helium (He) - 12; Neon (Ne) - 7 (from http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/venusfact.html) So, because of the IR reflectivity of CO2, Venus's surface is literally roasting.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 4:11:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 4:11:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Torf: I personally think that the sun causes global warming. I'm sure there is [b]something[/b] we sould do about that! Benefits of Global Warming: Arctic ice melt won't raise the water level significantly at all. Antarctic ice would only raise the level of the ocean about 3 inches or so, but with warmer temperatures, there would be more humidity in the atmosphere, thus dropping the water level back down to lower than it was before. There would also be more rainfall meaning that deserts would shrink and agriculture would expand. Millions who are starving might be saved, and we could be importing fine Canadian wine. Snowfalls in mountain areas would increase by 50% or more leading to a ski industry boom. Severe weather would be moderated due to a lack of severe cold fronts. Oceans would produce more fish due to increased plankton populations. Many endangered species could be brought back from the brink by increased prey numbers. These are many things that would take place if large scale global warming did take place. No one ever says this stuff on TV, but where would the panic be in that? The Eco-nuts are primairly anti-capitalist, and not pro-earth.
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i like this. never thought about it that way you go Torf!! burning lib
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 4:44:46 PM EDT
One thing alot of so called scientist donot look at is the sun. NASA has said they have noticed the polar ice caps are melting on Mars. That appears that maybe the sun is going thru cycles of severe activaty giving of more energy than normal. St. Louis Bob
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 4:51:13 PM EDT
If you have any doubts concerning the 'value' of the scientific support of global warming you may wish to do a search on the [b]'Leipzig Declaration'[/b] which was made by, I believe, approximately 160 scientists who dealt in areas of science that were germane to the issues. Just to get you started, here's the 'Leipzig Declaration' home page: [url]http://www.sepp.org/leipzig.html[/url] Eric The(It'sAGoodBeginning)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 4:58:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 11:31:47 PM EDT
I know the earth is getting warmer... it has been getting generally warmer for 12,000 years. Anyone who says they can state a perminent pattern change- or directly connect it to anything people do- is a fool.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 4:29:44 AM EDT
Warmer temperatures = increased evaporation increased evaporation = increased cloudiness increased cloudiness = increased albedo (reflectivity) of the Earth increased albedo = lower temperatures
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On the other hand, doesn't snow have a much higher albedo than any other type of surface on Earth? Warmer temperatures = Less snow cover Less snow cover = Lower albedo Lower albedo = Warmer temperatures Just a thought...
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 5:09:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 9:43:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fatty: global warming is a fact. it only takes a half-wit (me) with half-a-memory (mine) to tell you that growing up, it used to snow about 4 feet where i lived. now, they get none, zero, zip. seems pretty clear... scientists may be the experts, but not perfect. i doubt humans are the cause, we're probably just still coming off of the last ice age.
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The average temp. have only change about 1 degree since you were a kid, so I doubt that is the cause.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 10:07:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SNorman: The average temp. have only change about 1 degree since you were a kid, so I doubt that is the cause.
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well, maybe not the cause, but you just proved that the world IS warming. all i know is, if we don't get some natural snow soon, i'm gonna freak out!
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 11:21:21 AM EDT
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